PDA

View Full Version : I am confused all over again


rt66paul
10-09-2011, 6:30 PM
or still

I am a C&R holder. According the Empire arms, Ca does not recognize FED C&R weapons that are less then 50 years old as C&R.

1. Does this mean that I can not buy a P64 and a CZ-82 out of state and bring it in as a C&R?

2. What about a fixed mag SKS that is not specifically prohibited?

Your flow chart shows fixed mag auto weapons not in the appendixes that are 30" long as legal. The Yugo has a grenade launcher on it, but the chart shows only semi auto with detachable mags and grenade launchers illegal.

I am ready to concede the launcher, but does the chart need changing?

I got licensed as a C&R so that I could own and import some of these weapons and now it looks like I might not be able to do so.

I did a search, but still could not find the specific answers.

Flintlock Tom
10-09-2011, 6:43 PM
Not true. California recognizes the BATFE definition of C&R for long guns shipped to a C&R holder and handguns purchase out of state.
The confusion may come in when talking about a face-to-face cash & carry of a long gun over 50 years old. To qualify for F2F C&C the long gun must be over 50 years old regardless of C&R status.

1. No, you may purchase C&R handguns out of state and bring them in.
2. You may purchase and have shipped to you any long gun on the BATFE C&R list. Including "fixed mag SKS."
I haven't looked lately, but, I believe that the Chinese SKS is the only version NOT on the C&R list.

Toyman321
10-09-2011, 10:45 PM
Not true. California recognizes the BATFE definition of C&R for long guns shipped to a C&R holder and handguns purchase out of state.
The confusion may come in when talking about a face-to-face cash & carry of a long gun over 50 years old. To qualify for F2F C&C the long gun must be over 50 years old regardless of C&R status.

1. No, you may purchase C&R handguns out of state and bring them in.
2. You may purchase and have shipped to you any long gun on the BATFE C&R list. Including "fixed mag SKS."
I haven't looked lately, but, I believe that the Chinese SKS is the only version NOT on the C&R list.
Whole lot incorrect there....

stitchnicklas
10-09-2011, 10:55 PM
empire is a big crooked smile joke of a shop...i never sent them my updated ffl because of their stupidity and bad business Practices..

SA227driver
10-09-2011, 11:23 PM
Whole lot incorrect there....

Can you point out which parts?

Toyman321
10-10-2011, 6:27 AM
Can you point out which parts?

You may not have every long gun on the federal list shipped to you in CA, particularly the rifle in question in this thread. It must be CA compliant, a yugo SKS had a grenade launcher which regardless of if it is on the BATF list is still a no-no in CA.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-10-2011, 9:52 AM
Currently, for a C&R FFL in California to have a C&R firearm shipped to them it must be a C&R long gun that is over 50 years old.

C&R long guns younger than 50 years of age and C&R handguns are still 100% C&R in California. But they have to be transfered through a California dealer.

The grenade launcher on the Yugo M59/66 is a separate California "destructive device" problem.

Flintlock Tom
10-11-2011, 12:21 PM
Currently, for a C&R FFL in California to have a C&R firearm shipped to them it must be a C&R long gun that is over 50 years old.

C&R long guns younger than 50 years of age and C&R handguns are still 100% C&R in California. But they have to be transfered through a California dealer.

The grenade launcher on the Yugo M59/66 is a separate California "destructive device" problem.

I stand corrected, not all C&R guns on the list are CA compliant.
I disagree, however, C&R long-guns, on the list but less than 50 years old may be shipped from out of state to an 03 licensee.
If you can show me the penal code that proves me wrong I will humbly apologize.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-11-2011, 12:35 PM
...I disagree, however, C&R long-guns, on the list but less than 50 years old may be shipped from out of state to an 03 licensee.
If you can show me the penal code that proves me wrong I will humbly apologize.

The old Penal Code section is 12072(d). It requires firearms transfers to go through a California dealer...

12072(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082.

But then Section 12078(t)(2) exempts C&R long guns that are over 50 years of age...

12078(t)(2) Subdivision (d) and paragraph (1) of subdivision (f) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun, which is a curio or relic manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.

That's how it is now. AB 809 just removed the 50 year old requirement, but then added the requirements that you have to have a C&R FFL and a COE and register the C&R long guns with CalDOJ starting in 2014.

Flintlock Tom
11-01-2011, 8:39 AM
The old Penal Code section is 12072(d). It requires firearms transfers to go through a California dealer...


But then Section 12078(t)(2) exempts C&R long guns that are over 50 years of age...


That's how it is now. AB 809 just removed the 50 year old requirement, but then added the requirements that you have to have a C&R FFL and a COE and register the C&R long guns with CalDOJ starting in 2014.

I still disagree. Section 12078(t)(2) is an exemption to section 12072(d) which refers to two parties, neither of whom is a licensee. It does not refer to a licensee.
I still contend that a C&R licensee may import any CA legal long gun on the BATFE C&R list, regardless of age.

Mssr. Eleganté
11-01-2011, 9:16 PM
I still disagree. Section 12078(t)(2) is an exemption to section 12072(d) which refers to two parties, neither of whom is a licensee. It does not refer to a licensee.
I still contend that a C&R licensee may import any CA legal long gun on the BATFE C&R list, regardless of age.

I don't understand your reasoning. When you order a C&R long gun to be shipped to you from out of state, neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071. You don't hold a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071. J&G Sales doesn't hold a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071. That means the transfer must be completed through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082, unless it is an exempt transfer like a 50+ year old C&R long gun.

12072(d) Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer's license issued pursuant to Section 12071, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Section 12082

PsychGuy274
11-01-2011, 11:40 PM
empire is a big crooked smile joke of a shop...i never sent them my updated ffl because of their stupidity and bad business Practices..

They have my C&R on file, but I've never purchased anything from them. What have they done that's so bad?

I just want to know so I don't spend my money anywhere that screws people.