View Full Version : How good are you with iron sights?

10-09-2011, 1:00 PM
Tell the the truth, scouts honor!!!

With the rifle your most proficient with, what are your average groups at 100 yards?
No scopes, red dots, ect!

No "ONE TIME I got sub moa" !!!

I want what you can really do consistently!!!

Name the rifle with details if you want, then your average. Toss in your position/stance too! Benches, bipods, blocks and sand bags ok.

Ergo the Qualmed
10-09-2011, 1:07 PM
Yugo SKS
Man-sized, 80% of the time.
10 rds
supposedly it was a simulated 600yd target..."lol"

(the sun was in my eyes :D)

10-09-2011, 1:15 PM
6" group with my saiga 762x39

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

10-09-2011, 1:39 PM
I can do a hand sized group at 100yards with my garand. Maybe better depending on the conditions

USMC 82-86
10-09-2011, 1:42 PM
Well when I was in the Marines I qualified out to 500 yards iron sights. My eyes are a little older now and I still like irons sights a lot. Now that I have said that I shot a friends DD V4 about a month ago iron sights only. I had two 5 shot groups that were just under 2.75" on a regular target at 100yds. We put up some Shoot N-C targets to cover those groups and I got two 5 Shot groups that were a full .5" tighter probably because I could see my hits more clearly. I shot those groups in a prone position. It sparked a fire in me to shoot more with iron sights. I did have two 5 shot groups that were almost 3.5" but we won't talk about those. I guess that is okay I have not shot open sights at that distance for some time.

10-09-2011, 1:42 PM
5-6 inches with my M1A, 2-4 if I'm really doing my part with my K31.

It gets much harder with irons beyond 200 for me.

10-09-2011, 1:54 PM
6"-9" groups at 100yds using federal bulk pack and my 14.5"bbl LWRC.

10-09-2011, 1:54 PM
BTW... That's a 10 shot group over the 6"-9".

10-09-2011, 2:43 PM
I cannot even see my iron sights!! lol

10-09-2011, 3:36 PM
Scouts honor, with my K31 and shooting prone, I can keep them inside 2.5".

10-09-2011, 3:39 PM
Decent tight groups at 100 -

Past that I can't see crap.....

10-09-2011, 3:43 PM
I shoot my .30-30 Marlin "MOP" and "MOD"...that's minute of pig and minute of deer...out to 100 yards with a ghost ring rear sight. It's a freezer filler.

10-09-2011, 3:48 PM
Can usually do moa with one of my garands if there is no wind and its not too bright out..
.308 NM, bedded, BH ammo, from a bench...

USMC 82-86
10-09-2011, 3:51 PM
I would like to make a couple corrections The targets I referred to were shot with a M1A the other targets were shot with the DD that was actually a version 3 and not the 4 that I stated earlier. I spoke to him after the post and he said he has the V3 and not the V4 that I mentioned. I should have pulled the targets before my post to confirm. I still had decent groups with the DDV3 I had six 5 shot groups that had a best 3.75" and the worst group was just under 6". Most of the groups were around 4.5-5". Still not bad but not as good as those with the M1A. All of the groups with both rifles were from the prone position.

10-09-2011, 4:55 PM
My eyes are to old to shoot rifle iron sights.

10-09-2011, 4:59 PM
"Good with iron sights" to me = standing up, walking around, on the go, shooting moving targets in all weather conditions.

I don't believe in sitting at a bench.

I have a friend who is easily in the top 10 crack shots with a rifle in all of California. He has been shooting since he was 5 years old, much of it done in the Sierra at rodents on the ground and in trees. He has only ever used iron sights his whole life, and he has only ever used American-made guns that are 40+ years old. In fact, most of the kills I have ever seen him make, were done with a rifle that was 50 - 90 years old!

I once saw him nail a zigzagging chipmunk in the shadows at about 40 yards. He is very humble about his shooting, and has never much boasted about it.

He has never belonged to a gun club, he has never shot at a rifle range, and he has never sat down at a bench. I would say he practices weekly, and like I said, much of it in the Sierra. (he has a cabin up there) The guy is a purest of the purests, and he is not even 30 years old yet. If you throw a bottle up in the air in front of him, he'll get it with the first shot of a .22 about 90% of the time.

Every time that I've gone out shooting with the guy, I feel like a completely inadequate numbskull, although I always manage to have a good time.

Here is a video that I captured back in early 2006. As you can see, while both he and the rabbit are on the move, he hits the little rabbit with the second shot about 1.5 seconds after it comes into view. (you can see the rabbit do a barrel roll.) You'll have to excuse the poor quality as it was filmed with a crappy 2003 Sony digital camera.

[click on picture to play video]
http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n637/allthecampingtrips/th_MOV00033.jpg (http://s1143.photobucket.com/albums/n637/allthecampingtrips/?action=view&current=MOV00033.mp4)






10-09-2011, 4:59 PM






10-09-2011, 5:00 PM
You get the idea.......no scopes.....NEVER!




10-09-2011, 5:34 PM
I can hit majority of the time a 5 gallon bucket at 200 yards with my plinker reloads out of my AR off hand. I never measured on paper how I group off hand.

10-09-2011, 5:36 PM
The only rifles I have, aside from my AR, that still have iron sights only are my lever guns. My 53 year old, LASIK adjusted but still need reading glasses, eyes are nowhere near what they used to be, but I'm still usually able to keep a group inside the 7 ring of a B-27 at 100 yards with a Marlin 1894. 50 yards or less I'm going to nail whatever it is I am shooting at.

10-09-2011, 5:48 PM
From the kneeling position I can get 5 out of 5 on steel 2x3' plate @ 400 yds with irons on a variety of rifles such as a Lee Enfield, M1 rifle, M14/S, AR15, FAL carbine

K31 @ 100 yds

Lee Enfield #4mk2 @100 yds with S&B ball .303 @ 100 yds
Martini Henry 577/450 and Martini Enfield .303 @ 50 yds

I'm finding that the eyes are fuzzing out at 100yds on the standard NRA centerfire target. I've gone to a larger stick on target. I think at age 57 I've earned the right!

10-09-2011, 5:56 PM
Can always get 10 shots in a 5" group, sitting from a bench at 100 yards with my 16" AR (Colt 6920 upper shooting Federal XM193). Usually can get 10 in within 4". Occasionally will get under 3" but that doesn't happen very often.

With the open sights on my 91/30 I can get 10 rounds in 5" at 100 yards, from the bench, but never better than that.

With my .22 (M&P 15-22) shooting offhand at 25 yards I can do 1.5-2.5" groups with 10 rounds.

I don't have any guns with optics.

10-09-2011, 6:02 PM
8" about 300yds with my M1A...

10-09-2011, 9:43 PM
Two in the pink every time out to 400 w/5.56 and one in the think at 550 w/ 30-06...

10-09-2011, 9:57 PM
I was at Angles a few weeks back with a fellow CG’er (Doru) he had his new CMP M1 Grand and I had my old 1940 Arisaka type 99. We stat down and were using our slings, we started @ 200 yards (hitting steel) then moved to 300, 400, 500 and lastly 600 yards. I would say that out of the 5 rounds my rifle holds I was hitting steel 50% of the time. As for drew, out of the 8rds his rifle held, I would say he was hitting steel a good 75% of the time.. I learned a few things that day,

1. The M1 Grand / 30-06 is a really good shooting round
2. My Arisaka was not an equal to it.. This hurt me a little bit lololololol.. But I got over it pretty quickly
3. In a real fire fight my 5rds was nothing compared to the 8rounds of the M1
4. His semi auto grand was putting more fire down range in a much quicker time than my bolt action was
5. The M1 grand also was quicker to reload, he made sure I knew that he was waiting on me. Hahahaa

As for grouping at 100 yards, we didn’t even bother with that. We just wanted to compare rifles and have a old fashion shoot off on steel.. It was more of a chest pounding I’m better than you thing.. Bastard won that round, but this Wednesday 12th were heading back to angles for round II of the WWII rifle shoot off.. I’ll get some pics and post them up after his soon to be defeat.. hahahahaa..

10-10-2011, 12:02 AM
sub moa at 200 yards w/ a m1903

tuna quesadilla
10-10-2011, 12:13 AM
Scopes? We don't need no steenkin' scopes.

10-10-2011, 6:30 AM
Hawkins .50 cal, 285gr power belt bullet with 90gr of powder. Bench rest, three shots making a perfect trinangle at 100 yards. Not bad for a front loader. It also drops deer like they were steel plates.

10-10-2011, 4:07 PM
Russian sks standing @ 100yds and I can hit the steel gong @Los Angeles range (18/20'' gong? unsure of the size) 10rds all the time :). I'm just an avid rifle shooter.

10-10-2011, 6:01 PM
sub moa at 200 yards w/ a m1903


10-10-2011, 6:12 PM
Supported on a bench with my shooter grade m1 garand, I hit a torso sized steel plate at 600 yards 3/4 times. Same setup, i hit a 3 foot gong at 1000 yards 1/10 tens. Damn that was fun, i need to get out and do it again.

10-10-2011, 6:22 PM
this was with my rimfire. inch and 1/2 maybe.




10-10-2011, 6:55 PM
sub moa at 200 yards w/ a m1903

Less than 1" groups at 200 yards? I find that a little hard to believe.

I think my best grouping with my M1A Scout is about 4" with iron sights.

With my AR, I think about 3" with steel Russian ammo.

With my 45/70 guide gun, probably MOPP. That is minute of pie plate. All of mine were at 100 yards.

10-10-2011, 7:06 PM
Less than 1" groups at 200 yards? I find that a little hard to believe.

I think my best grouping with my M1A Scout is about 4" with iron sights.

With my AR, I think about 3" with steel Russian ammo.

With my 45/70 guide gun, probably MOPP. That is minute of pie plate. All of mine were at 100 yards.

Umm. . . sub MOA at 200 yards means less than 2" basic trig.

As to me, well I can consistently put rounds in where it counts on a man sized target at 500 yards in an issued M4 with matech backup sight.

10-10-2011, 7:10 PM
1941 "PL" marked Sako M39.
182gr Yugo surplus
prone supported (off my ruck)
200yds at Burro Cyn
(posted this last year after i did it)

10-10-2011, 7:13 PM
at 100 yards I can consistently hit a 6" steel target standing.
if I give it some effort, at 200 yards I can bust clays with about 75% accuracy

today I was hitting 6" still target at 300 yards from kneeling position about 50% of the time at the start of the day... but I also figured out that my sights were off from last time because i took them off and put them back on... once I fixed that I hit it every time! :)

10-10-2011, 7:34 PM
I can hit the small gatorade bottles @125 yard at about %95 of the time. I would say they are 3 inches wide..

10-10-2011, 8:17 PM
Umm. . . sub MOA at 200 yards means less than 2" basic trig.

As to me, well I can consistently put rounds in where it counts on a man sized target at 500 yards in an issued M4 with matech backup sight.

Got it.

10-10-2011, 9:10 PM
I can hit a 1/2 lb (3"x3") Tannerite charge at 100' nearly every time from a bench or Prone position with my AR 16", 1.5lb trigger and Carry handle. Standing, I'm alittle sloppy.


With a 6x12x40 scope, Hard to miss at all from a bench. Big difference. I have 100 yrd targets with 7 holes in the bull with 10 shots fired. It is not a Leopold either...And I was a Cub scout, Webelo, and Boy scout.
Troop 29.

10-11-2011, 10:13 AM
I do about 1 to 1.5 inches pretty consistently with my 20-inch WOA Service Rifle. That's from the bench, using my hand loads, 5-round groups.

I have occasionally done better than that, but it's rare and less likely to happen as I approach 50 years old. These are both 10-round groups, with irons. Both were shot while doing load development:


.766 MOA


.700 MOA

Usually it's more like this though:


10-11-2011, 10:21 AM
^ xrMike nice shooting.

10-11-2011, 1:49 PM
You said rifle, but in bullseye pistol shooting, 45acp 1911, standing, one handed, 10 shots at 50 yards, I can group on a good day ~5". Size of bullseye is 8"


10-11-2011, 3:38 PM
Taking out tangarines @ 30yards w/ irons on my H&K P2000

:chris: :)

10-11-2011, 4:13 PM
One of my best moments with irons was at ASR. I was shooting with a friend, and his gun collection was outpacing his shooting ability. He had a new "sniper" rifle, but wasn't too proficient with it.

I wanted to show him what my K31 and I could do, so I charged it with six rounds. I took up my best crossed legged shooting position, not the bench, and went 2 for 2 on the metal plates at two hundred yards. Then went 2 for 2 at three hundred yards. I missed my next shot short at 400. Since the sight was graduated in meters instead of yards, I slid it down a little and nailed it on the sixth shot.

I love keeping it simple and shooting with iron sights.

10-11-2011, 4:56 PM
M1 Garand, standard config., HXP, 5-6 MOA.
FA14 (M1A), Fulton Armory, no mods, SA .308, 4-5 MOA.
At 100 yds.

10-11-2011, 6:32 PM
In the Corps, I could hit a Minute-Of-Man target at 500 yards 10 out of 10 times with my M16A2.

10-11-2011, 6:40 PM
Offhand 100 yards I can put 10 rounds in a target the size of a human head, standing, slow fire, really trying. A little better prone, but nothing spectacular.

10-12-2011, 5:17 AM
Off a bench at 100 I get 2" 5shot groups with my SIG 556---I can hit
about 8/10 @ 400 yds on a good size steel silhouette---this with factory
556 ammo. I am over 62 years old and use eyeglasses to read with. I
hardly ever use a scope for anything,I have been shooting for over 50
years. Pete


When I use a scope with handloads this is the result with an old
Winchester M70 in 220 Swift.


10-12-2011, 11:37 AM
^ good stuff there, GM4spd, especially for 60+ years old.

Thanks RaiderNation. Once you pass 40, it's your eyes that are the weak link in the chain. At some point I will have to give into the aging process, turn **$$y, and buy some glass. :43:

10-14-2011, 7:30 AM
I hit bowling pins about 175 yards out about 95% of the time.

10-14-2011, 7:33 PM
If I do my part my Marlin .357 lever action will pretty much nail the side of a barn at will from 100 yards. If my glasses don't fog up.

Tennis balls at 20 yards are pretty much dead soldiers about 80% of the time.

10-14-2011, 8:05 PM
~15mm 10 shot group, 22lr @ 50M prone unsupported
~2" 10 shot group, 22lr @ 50M standing unsupported
Still training.. havent done kneeling yet.

10-14-2011, 8:28 PM
I watched an old guy who was 80+ years old, that used to shoot highpower at a club I shot with shoot a 20X string with a 1903A3 that was older than he was at 200 yards on the reduced distance target. X ring on that target is MOA I think. Dont remember exactly though. It was very impressive and I had to call the range officer over to verify for his score card. The really impressive thing was he was shooting the original 2 groove barrel with his own special blend of lead cast bullets at less than 1500fps. That man was one hell of a shot and long time High Master.

10-29-2011, 10:42 AM
I took my $125 Commission rifle 88/05/35 reworked by the Turks in 1941 to the range today. Shooting mixed commercial brass and Sierra 150gr SP bullets to a book velocity of 2,500 FPS. 100yds from a bench supported by my hand, no other rest. This target was the end of the ammo (25 rds) when I decided to drift the sight to get it centered.

The rifle:


The target:


Round 1 was low, adusted the sight leaf to 400 meters; round 2 was at 9 o'clock, drifted the sight blade to the left; 3-5 are in the 10 ring (along with a .22 hole from my #2mk4). The rifle was getting difficult to grip properly because of all of the oil oozing out of the wood! I would have gone for more but I had expended the rest of the rounds playing with the steel plate at 400 yds from the kneeling position - about 50% hits and th rest at 9 o'clock which is what prompted me to monkey with the front sight. Not bad for a rifle over 100 years old with 57 year old eyes!

10-29-2011, 11:14 AM
With my old norinco i could consistently get 1" 10 round groups @ 25 yards leaning my shoulder on a post. That gun had a notch and a brass bead. i never could do that well with my AR's ghost ring. Think it had something to do with my glasses. The ghost ring would go all oval on me unless i kept my head perfectly vertical. Not comfortable.