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View Full Version : **ALERT** Sac City Council to consider ordinance requiring fingerprints to buy ammo!!


DrjonesUSA
02-07-2007, 10:47 PM
Link (may have to login to read, sorry. Article is posted in full below anyway.)
http://www.sacbee.com/101/story/119081.html


**Please pay attention to the part in bold near the end. The rest of the article is disturbing too: the govt. conning kids into tattling on people with guns, as well as encouraging people to snitch. Big Brother's watching.

Apparently the Sac Vice Mayor is collaborating with the gun-grabbing SS....er....Police Chief Albert Nazi...er...Najera to bring an ordinance in front of the city council to require fingerprinting in order to buy ammunition in Sac city/county.**

The vice-mayor claims that a similar ordinance is "on the books in other CA cities". Can anyone tell me what city in CA requires fingerprints just to buy ammunition??



Cops hope public, Web help snare illegal guns

By Christina Jewett - Bee Staff Writer

Published 12:00 am PST Tuesday, February 6, 2007

Sacramento law enforcement leaders said Tuesday that they are turning to YouTube, MySpace and text messaging -- communication highways for teens -- to promote a new program offering $1,000 rewards for information about illegal guns.

The rewards will go to anonymous callers who provide police with information about an illegal gun or unlawful gun owner -- if the information leads to an arrest.

In California, felons are not allowed to own guns, and only people with permits can carry loaded firearms.

"This is one of the things we're doing to try to reduce the level of violence we see on the streets," Sacramento Police Chief Albert Nájera said at a news conference with Sacramento County Sheriff John McGinness and agents from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Nájera said his teenage daughter inspired him to turn to text messaging to elicit tips from the public.

He said a rider on light rail or a bus may not call police if they notice a person carrying a gun -- but they may send a text message to dispatchers.

"We're hoping we can go to a little different audience with this," he said.

Police Capt. Daniel Hahn, who supervises investigations, said school resource officers will hold contests in high schools for students to create posters and video -- to be posted on the video-sharing Web site youtube.com -- promoting the reward program and its tip line: (800) ATF-GUNS.

Although a text messaging number has not been established -- or a myspace.com page -- officials say they plan to disseminate information about them.

Gun violence has led to bloodshed and widespread debate in Sacramento, as homicides and robberies soared in the city and county during the first half of 2006.

After slayings mounted early in the summer, police, ATF agents and sheriff's deputies conducted a two-day gang sweep that turned up 25 illegal guns.

Officials have no estimates of how many illegal guns are in Sacramento. But McGinness said they tend to turn a flash of anger into a tragedy.

"The existence of those weapons with the wrong people contribute to the ease with which life is taken on the street," he said. "So we want to make a change."

Law enforcement expects a variety of motives from tipsters, including ex-girlfriends' spite and drug users' greed.

"We'll take the information any way we can get it," McGinness said.

The potential for abuse -- citizens planting guns on others -- does not strike gun-violence researcher Dr. Garen Wintemute as a problem. Wintemute, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at UC Davis Medical Center, said police likely will investigate far enough to rule out fraudulent tips.

Although he has not seen a formal evaluation of similar programs, he said it is wise for police to tap the knowledge of residents.

"The main idea here is to use people who live in the community to help see and react to things that law enforcement just can't see," he said.

Sacramento police may get additional tools to contain illegal guns, said Vice Mayor Kevin McCarty, who consulted with Nájera on proposed city gun ordinances.

McCarty said one would require people to provide fingerprints to buy ammunition.

Another proposed restriction will crack down on "straw buyers," people who buy batches of guns and turn them over to felons and others who cannot legally buy guns.

McCarty said unscrupulous gun buyers -- when approached by police -- claim guns they bought were stolen.

McCarty said the ordinance he proposes would target those gun traffickers by creating a new misdemeanor crime: not reporting a lost or stolen gun within 48 hours.

Both ordinances are on the books in other California cities, McCarty said, and will come before the City Council in coming months.

"They may not be a panacea and solve all our gun crimes, but maybe make a small dent," McCarty said.

Biff...
02-07-2007, 10:58 PM
Los Angeles, has a similar ordinance. The other day I was at a Big 5 and wanted to buy some wwb, the clerk told me I had to show id and put my finger print on a log book. Just walked out and bought my stuff in my own city. Apparently any parts that LAPD patrol you have to do this.

Anthonysmanifesto
02-08-2007, 12:20 AM
this is truly distrubing.. everyone in Sacto should be prepared to testify, write and call.

these anti-small business measures do nothing to mask the city's inability to meet the demands of growth and effective law enforcement...

chiefcrash
02-08-2007, 07:46 AM
i love that quote at the end...

"They may not be a panacea and solve all our gun crimes, but maybe make a small dent" = "let's infringe civil liberties and harass gun owners if it has a possibility of a small effect on crime!"

Lohse
02-08-2007, 07:52 AM
This accomplishes nothing.

triggerhappy
02-08-2007, 07:54 AM
If I ever buy ammo in Suckramento, they get only one finger.

triggerhappy
02-08-2007, 07:57 AM
And yeah, that's good police work, ain't it? I always hated Sac, people like this police chief are why. It's more than fine if he and his cronies have guns, but we peons may hurt our little selves and shouldn't have them.

Question: does anyone feel "safe", i.e. condition white, at nighttime in Sacramento?

jemaddux
02-08-2007, 08:14 AM
Los Angeles, has a similar ordinance. The other day I was at a Big 5 and wanted to buy some wwb, the clerk told me I had to show id and put my finger print on a log book. Just walked out and bought my stuff in my own city. Apparently any parts that LAPD patrol you have to do this.


This is correct. Anyplace in Los Angeles CITY you have to give finger print for ammo, not in Los Angeles COUNTY areas. The stupid thing I have to say about it is that people that are not suppose to be owning firearms still come in and buy ammo at a few places and end up getting arrested later:confused: . Now if you know your not suppose to be owning, having, holding or anything else with a firearm why would you put your finger print in a book saying your buying ammo????

royta
02-08-2007, 08:27 AM
The stupid thing I have to say about it is that people that are not suppose to be owning firearms still come in and buy ammo at a few places and end up getting arrested later:confused: . Now if you know your not suppose to be owning, having, holding or anything else with a firearm why would you put your finger print in a book saying your buying ammo????

Unfortunately, this is how the gun takers convince the fence straddlers that these absurd ammo selling procedures are a good thing to do. Fence straddler person says, "Well, if it keeps ammo out of the bad guys hands, then it's all right with me."

Grakken
02-08-2007, 08:50 AM
This is correct. Anyplace in Los Angeles CITY you have to give finger print for ammo, not in Los Angeles COUNTY areas. The stupid thing I have to say about it is that people that are not suppose to be owning firearms still come in and buy ammo at a few places and end up getting arrested later:confused: . Now if you know your not suppose to be owning, having, holding or anything else with a firearm why would you put your finger print in a book saying your buying ammo????


I see an easy skirt for felons and such for this. They will just have the guys who have never been in trouble with the law (yet) or their girlfriends/mom/brother buy the rounds for them. Truly no thought went into that idea.

ibbryn
02-08-2007, 10:21 AM
If any of you Sacramento people want ammo to fight this proposal, the City of Pasadena (in LA County) was one of the first to enact fingerprint regulations such as these.

They also repealed the regulation since it has no effect on criminal activity and only cost money and time for the administrative aspects of the reg. They pretty much admitted so when they repealed the reg.

I'd be happy to help you google up some fact and figures regarding Pasadena if you are interested in using them in your fight. Just PM me.

tgriffin
02-08-2007, 12:02 PM
There is little known, seldom enforced, ordinance on the books in Contra Costa County requiring all ammunition purchases to be logged with an individuals signature and drivers license numbers. Only place I have ever seen it enforced was at the Sports Authority next to Buchanan Airfield. There rational was because they were on or adjacent to airport property.

Contra Costa County: 8236.1002 Record of Ammunition Sales. No firearm dealer shall sell or otherwise transfer ownership of any ammunition without at the time of purchase recording the following information on a form to be prescribed by GMEDA: the date of the transaction, the name, address and date of birth of the transferee, the transferee's driver's license or other identification number and the state in which it was issued, the brand, type and amount of ammunition transferred and the transferee's signature. (Ord. 95 59 § 1.)

bbq_ribs
02-08-2007, 12:15 PM
There is little known, seldom enforced, ordinance on the books in Contra Costa County requiring all ammunition purchases to be logged with an individuals signature and drivers license numbers. Only place I have ever seen it enforced was at the Sports Authority next to Buchanan Airfield. There rational was because they were on or adjacent to airport property.

Seldom enforced = the BATFE goons could show up and say "You're not enforcing this, say bye bye license." Right?

Ugh.

jaymz
02-08-2007, 12:24 PM
Cops hope public, Web help snare illegal guns

By Christina Jewett - Bee Staff Writer

Published 12:00 am PST Tuesday, February 6, 2007

Sacramento law enforcement leaders said Tuesday that they are turning to YouTube, MySpace and text messaging -- communication highways for teens -- to promote a new program offering $1,000 rewards for information about illegal guns.

The rewards will go to anonymous callers who provide police with information about an illegal gun or unlawful gun owner -- if the information leads to an arrest.

How are you gonna collect money if it's "anonymous"?


"The main idea here is to use people who live in the community to help see and react to things that law enforcement just can't see," he said.

So text messaging will work to prevent violent crimes that law enforcement just can't see, but armed law abiding citizens won't? WTF?

McCarty said one would require people to provide fingerprints to buy ammunition.

Yeah. 'Cause we KNOW that criminals will give up a fingerprint to buy ammo.

McCarty said the ordinance he proposes would target those gun traffickers by creating a new misdemeanor crime: not reporting a lost or stolen gun within 48 hours.

So when you go on vacation and someone steals your gun 2 days before you get home, now YOU are the criminal?

"They may not be a panacea and solve all our gun crimes, but maybe make a small dent," McCarty said.

HELLO! The ridiculously restrictive anti-gun laws that are on the books NOW have not made a dent in reducing crime. Why do they keep insisting that more laws will fix the problem?

DrjonesUSA
02-08-2007, 12:25 PM
If any of you Sacramento people want ammo to fight this proposal, the City of Pasadena (in LA County) was one of the first to enact fingerprint regulations such as these.

They also repealed the regulation since it has no effect on criminal activity and only cost money and time for the administrative aspects of the reg. They pretty much admitted so when they repealed the reg.

I'd be happy to help you google up some fact and figures regarding Pasadena if you are interested in using them in your fight. Just PM me.



If you could post in this thread links to articles, information, etc. regarding this, it would be a huge help.

Thanks!!

DrjonesUSA
02-09-2007, 10:22 AM
Bump.......

ibbryn
02-09-2007, 10:50 AM
Here's a little bit to start you off....


Info from this brief:
http://www.saf.org/LawReviews/Healey1.htm
Some of the more interesting ammunition control measures have been initiated at the local level….. but ammunition control has filtered down to even more local levels of government. Pasadena, California gained attention in the spring of 1995 when it became, presumably, the first city in the nation to pass an ammunition control ordinance that regulates dealers. [74] The law has since been repealed, but under Pasadena's ordinance, dealers were required to keep records of ammunition sales, which included a purchaser's age, identification, brand of ammunition, and amount purchased, among other information. [75] Despite the demise of Pasadena's law, several cities, including Los Angeles, which also requires a buyer's right thumb print, have passed ammunition sales ordinances. [76]
[74]. See Pertman, supra note 67, at 11.
[75]. Pasadena, Cal., Ordinance 6625 (Mar. 6, 1995), An Ordinance of the City of Pasadena Amending Title 9 to add Chapter 9.86 to the Pasadena Municipal Code, Pertaining to the Registration of Ammunition Sales (on file with author). The law was repealed in the summer of 1997. See Richard Winton & Nicholas Riccardi, Pasadena Repeals Ammunition Law, Rejected Alternative, L.A. Times, Aug. 19, 1997, at B1.
[76]. Los Angeles, Cal., Code ch. V, art. IV, § 55.11 (1998) (discussing recordkeeping requirements for ammunition vendors); see also Ammo Law, City News Service, Aug. 19, 1997 (noting that "[s]everal Southern California cities" passed statutes similar to Pasadena's).
-----------------
An article discussing ammo sale regulations
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=2905
----------------
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/talk-politics-guns/pro-gun-faq/part1/
The city of Pasadena, California, which with much publicity passed a similar ammo registration law in February 1995 --despite the earlier demonstrated uselessness of ammo registration at the federal level-- repealed the law on August 18, 1997, after police proclaimed the law "useless". The city government, which delayed repeal of the law for several months in order to allow "gun control" groups to propose alternative legislation, wisely rejected
the "new-and-improved" ammo registration law as well.)

mightymike
02-09-2007, 11:45 AM
Interesting. I ordered some .308 from AIM the other day and noticed that they will not ship ammo to Sacramento county residents. Good thing I live in a conservative county.

mikehaas
02-09-2007, 12:10 PM
Posted about this in early December. ONE-CLICK has been sitting there, waiting for your input...
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?summary=sacammosales&year=2007

Also, they are trying to pass Mandatory reporting of loss/stolen firearms within 48 hours. ONE-CLICK-ing here, too...
http://calnra.com/legs.shtml?summary=saclosstheft&year=2007

Lastly, Sacramento is the subject of my recent video:
The Anatomy of Gun Control (http://CALNRA.com/caspecial/anatomy.shtml)

Mike

Can'thavenuthingood
02-09-2007, 02:38 PM
I watched that Sacramento City Council meeting at the time and was astounded that after all the negative discussion, they voted to write an ordinance.

Incredible.

Been saying it for a long time, you have to get to your City/County meetings. This is where they, LCAV, VPC and Brady will collect the 'tickets', ordinances, necessary to convince the state legislators to pass the same laws.

We Calgunners are all over the state, we need to watch the meetings for this stuff. By the way, you cannot just look and see what is on the Agenda and decide whether or not to go. The City managers will add to the Agenda and if there is no disent, its up for discussion. If no disent then proceed with a vote. I've seen it.

Vick

Res
02-09-2007, 02:55 PM
Interesting. I ordered some .308 from AIM the other day and noticed that they will not ship ammo to Sacramento county residents. Good thing I live in a conservative county.

Mike, if you look again on AIM's website, it says they will not ship to the city of Sacramento, not the county. Makes a big difference for us who live in Carmichael, Rancho Cordova, Elk Grove, Etc.

DrjonesUSA
02-12-2007, 02:12 PM
Bump........