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View Full Version : Please help diagose FTF in new RIA Tactical 1911


Lead Waster
10-07-2011, 4:15 PM
Major disclaimer: The FTF came when using my lead reloads and today is the first time I've shot this gun.

So, I unpacked it, cleaned it (horribly dirty barrel for a new-in-box gun!) and oiled it up with Hoppes gun oil (ie I dropped out on slide rails and anywhere that looked like it wanted some oil, though it was pretty oily in the box anyway)

I went to the range today and ran a box (50 rnds) of Factory Federal .45 acp in it. Then I ran some of my LSWC rounds that I loaded up ages ago and didn't feed well in my Glock (1911 ate them fine!) then I switched to some LRN reloads I had made ages ago as well.

Everything was running fine when I squeezed the trigger and ... nothing! The hammer was fully cocked, but the trigger would not budge!

I aimed it down range and tried to pull the slide back...it would not move. I checked the safety, it was of (fire).

I pulled out the magazine and used my hand to try and rack the slide again with a back and forth motion, then finally it moved and the round ejected. it looked OK (no dented primer or anytihng, this round fed then somehow caused the gun to malfunction). So the slide would not move with the magazine out either.

This happened one more time later.

The mags I was using was the ACT mag that came with the gun, and two used Chip McCormack Powermags which are used, but new to me (bought them at the gun shop when I picked up the gun, they were not new mags, but "like new")

Unfortunately I did not make note of the mag that was in the gun during the FTF as I was trying to work the slide to pop out the round.

This happened with my LRN reloads NOT the factory ammo. However, those reloads SEEM to feed fine.

So, I'm not that familiar with 1911 innards. If a round is in the chamber in my Glock, then I know all is well, I couldn't tell if the rounds were FULLY CHAMBERED or what. I know the slide was forward and "stuck"

Thanks in advance for the tips!

My guess is that my reloads did not fully feed or something, but again, my understanding of 1911 internals is weak.

Incidentally... WOW! I now know why people love 1911s (even cheap ones!) I can barely hit the side of a barn with my Glock, this thing was grouping so nicely, it was a pleasure! The trigger is amazing, I mean there is no slack or anything, the trigger is just there and you press it and it doesn't move at all until .. bang! WIth the glock it's moving moving moving BANG!

Meety Peety
10-07-2011, 4:27 PM
Right off the top of my head, there are two things you should never do when bringing a new gun out for the first time: A) Don't shoot it before cleaning all the gunk off of it and B) Don't shoot reloads while breaking in the gun. "BNIB" doesn't necessarily mean clean.. in fact most of the time it means the opposite. Give a new gun a nice cleaning when you pull it out of the box to avoid things like
(horribly dirty barrel for a new-in-box gun!)

Many 1911s are known to be quite picky about which rounds (Even manufacturers) they like. I can't say with any certainty that this was your problem, but due to the fact that it seems like you were only having issues with reloads (Unless I read incorrectly), it sure sounds like this is definitely the case. A dirty gun will make this worse, which is probably why it locked up on you a bit.

1911s are fantastic guns, but can be some of the most picky guns at times. My best suggestion to you would be to break down the gun and give it a nice cleaning, don't over oil it, and then head to the range with a few different mags and loads to find out what combo suits this gun the best.

Dan_attacker
10-07-2011, 4:36 PM
I have a RIA GI 1911 and I have had lots of problem with my reloads.

I'm using the Lee 45 ACP 228 gr. Ogive mold (452-228-1R). I was sizing to .452 and using an OAL under the max and the bullets wouldn't feed and they were leaving rifling marks on the bullet. I started to size with a .451 and the same thing was happening. I have to use an OAL of 1.200" or less for the rifling to not touch the bullet which is pretty short. I admit that I didn't correctly crimp the bullets at first but I fixed the crimp and they still had the same feeding problem. I found that my reloads with an OAL of 1.200" and bullet sized to .451 feeds well.

You should remove the barrel from your gun and see if your reloads fall into the chamber smoothly and to the correct depth. Use a factory round as a reference.

AeroEngi
10-07-2011, 4:37 PM
Major disclaimer: The FTF came when using my lead reloads and today is the first time I've shot this gun.

So, I unpacked it, cleaned it (horribly dirty barrel for a new-in-box gun!) and oiled it up with Hoppes gun oil (ie I dropped out on slide rails and anywhere that looked like it wanted some oil, though it was pretty oily in the box anyway)

I went to the range today and ran a box (50 rnds) of Factory Federal .45 acp in it. Then I ran some of my LSWC rounds that I loaded up ages ago and didn't feed well in my Glock (1911 ate them fine!) then I switched to some LRN reloads I had made ages ago as well.

Everything was running fine when I squeezed the trigger and ... nothing! The hammer was fully cocked, but the trigger would not budge!

I aimed it down range and tried to pull the slide back...it would not move. I checked the safety, it was of (fire).

I pulled out the magazine and used my hand to try and rack the slide again with a back and forth motion, then finally it moved and the round ejected. it looked OK (no dented primer or anytihng, this round fed then somehow caused the gun to malfunction). So the slide would not move with the magazine out either.

This happened one more time later.

The mags I was using was the ACT mag that came with the gun, and two used Chip McCormack Powermags which are used, but new to me (bought them at the gun shop when I picked up the gun, they were not new mags, but "like new")

Unfortunately I did not make note of the mag that was in the gun during the FTF as I was trying to work the slide to pop out the round.

This happened with my LRN reloads NOT the factory ammo. However, those reloads SEEM to feed fine.

So, I'm not that familiar with 1911 innards. If a round is in the chamber in my Glock, then I know all is well, I couldn't tell if the rounds were FULLY CHAMBERED or what. I know the slide was forward and "stuck"

Thanks in advance for the tips!

My guess is that my reloads did not fully feed or something, but again, my understanding of 1911 internals is weak.

Incidentally... WOW! I now know why people love 1911s (even cheap ones!) I can barely hit the side of a barn with my Glock, this thing was grouping so nicely, it was a pleasure! The trigger is amazing, I mean there is no slack or anything, the trigger is just there and you press it and it doesn't move at all until .. bang! WIth the glock it's moving moving moving BANG!

What kind of FTF was it? Did the round nose dive into the frame feed ramp or was it a 3 point jam?

Lead Waster
10-07-2011, 4:44 PM
That's a good question! I have no idea what type of jam. What is a "3 point jam"?

The very first factory round nosedived on me, with the ACT magazine, that was the last feeding issue as all the other rounds fed into the chamber OR SEEMED THAT WAY.

Since the slide was fully forward, and the hammer cocked, I assumed it would fire, but the hammer would not fall, the trigger would not do anything (I squeezed it good and tight) and I could not move the slide at all until I did it a bit more vigorously.

I did clean out all the crap in the barrel and made sure the field stripped bits were nice and clean. I might have over-oiled it, but I heard 1911's like to be quite oily.

I will finish "break in" with factory rounds (100 rounds done, probably another 400 to go?)

I'm sure the reloads were the problem, but my question is ... what aspect of the reload did it? What was happening in the gun? Was the bullet not fully in the chamber, but the slide was forward? What was the lock up? Was the round partially in, or was it maybe jammed in tilted so that it was not fully in the chamber?

Thanks!

ojisan
10-07-2011, 4:45 PM
You should remove the barrel from your gun and see if your reloads fall into the chamber smoothly and to the correct depth. Use a factory round as a reference.

:yes:

Reloads or factory new, lead bullet loads often are a bit larger in diameter than jacketed loads.
This can lead to chambering problems until you get the needed sizes and crimping figured out.

The above suggestion by Dan should also be used when making up a batch of reloads at home...make a few rounds and check them for fit before making more.


ETA: the round was likely 80% or more in, but this is enough to keep the disconnector from allowing the trigger to work.

What is your location?

AeroEngi
10-07-2011, 4:52 PM
That's a good question! I have no idea what type of jam. What is a "3 point jam"?

The very first factory round nosedived on me, with the ACT magazine, that was the last feeding issue as all the other rounds fed into the chamber OR SEEMED THAT WAY.

Since the slide was fully forward, and the hammer cocked, I assumed it would fire, but the hammer would not fall, the trigger would not do anything (I squeezed it good and tight) and I could not move the slide at all until I did it a bit more vigorously.

I did clean out all the crap in the barrel and made sure the field stripped bits were nice and clean. I might have over-oiled it, but I heard 1911's like to be quite oily.

I will finish "break in" with factory rounds (100 rounds done, probably another 400 to go?)

I'm sure the reloads were the problem, but my question is ... what aspect of the reload did it? What was happening in the gun? Was the bullet not fully in the chamber, but the slide was forward? What was the lock up? Was the round partially in, or was it maybe jammed in tilted so that it was not fully in the chamber?

Thanks!

A 3 point jam is when the rear of the bullet is up against the breech face, underneath the extractor, part of the brass case is up against the feed ramp and the nose of the bullet is pushed up against the top of the chamber.

I had this issue in my Springfield 1911 TRP and it turned out to be a short extractor. But your extractor is probably ok cuz it feeds FMJ ammo fine. I'm thinking it's probably your reloads.

sammy
10-07-2011, 4:57 PM
Was the slide about 1/4" from completely closed? I had this problem with my Baer PII and found my bullets were seated a bit long for it. Try taking out the barrel and drop in one of the reloads you were having a problem with. Chances are it will not fully seat flush. Sammy

Lead Waster
10-07-2011, 5:00 PM
Would the slide be fulled closed with a 3 point jam? It is very possible that I am mistaken and the slide was not fully closed.

This, coupled with the reloads, is the most likely candidate I think. I'm fine with this actually. Knowing that it's the reloads is an easy fix, versus a mechanical problem. I was just wondering what was going no. With the glock, it's obvious if a round is not fully chambered (the slide will be out of battery, which you can see from the back even if it's a little bit) My unfamiliarity with the 1911 is why I asked this question.

I will try the reloading advice as well. Hodgdon (or Hogdgon, I can't remember the spelling ever!) website shows OAL of 1.200", which I thought was kind of short, but maybe not. I think my reloads were 1.250 or so.

Thanks for the advice guys! I look forward to having this thing fully broken in and nice and smooth.

The slide/frame fit is tight, there is no sounds when I shake the pistol like an old WWII Colt might be like (of course an old Colt from WWII probably wouldn't have jammed on the reload either!). I'm quite impressed with this "value priced" 1911. For my shooting level, it's perfect!

Lead Waster
10-07-2011, 5:00 PM
Would the slide be fulled closed with a 3 point jam? It is very possible that I am mistaken and the slide was not fully closed.

This, coupled with the reloads, is the most likely candidate I think. I'm fine with this actually. Knowing that it's the reloads is an easy fix, versus a mechanical problem. I was just wondering what was going no. With the glock, it's obvious if a round is not fully chambered (the slide will be out of battery, which you can see from the back even if it's a little bit) My unfamiliarity with the 1911 is why I asked this question.

I will try the reloading advice as well. Hodgdon (or Hogdgon, I can't remember the spelling ever!) website shows OAL of 1.200", which I thought was kind of short, but maybe not. I think my reloads were 1.250 or so.

Thanks for the advice guys! I look forward to having this thing fully broken in and nice and smooth.

The slide/frame fit is tight, there is no sounds when I shake the pistol like an old WWII Colt might be like (of course an old Colt from WWII probably wouldn't have jammed on the reload either!). I'm quite impressed with this "value priced" 1911. For my shooting level, it's perfect!

walmart_ar15
10-07-2011, 5:32 PM
Have you change the grip by any chance? When the slide got stuck, did it at least move a little or just completely jammed? RIA Tac has extended thumb safety, with some after market grips, the extend portion gets stuck on top of the grip, this cause the safety to be "just" engaged. Thus trigger won't work, slide seems jammed.

For the bullet to jam to slide open, it will have to keep the slide back > 1/8" for the hammer not to fall. You'll notice if the slide is out of battery.

Lead Waster
10-07-2011, 5:40 PM
Have you change the grip by any chance? When the slide got stuck, did it at least move a little or just completely jammed? RIA Tac has extended thumb safety, with some after market grips, the extend portion gets stuck on top of the grip, this cause the safety to be "just" engaged. Thus trigger won't work, slide seems jammed.

For the bullet to jam to slide open, it will have to keep the slide back > 1/8" for the hammer not to fall. You'll notice if the slide is out of battery.

Yes, I installed Hogue wrap around grips! I will definitely look to see if it got jammed. I pushed down on the safety though, to make sure it wasn't jammed at the time. It didn't occur to me that the grip might be hitting it. I will check though, thanks for that tidbit!

It felt completely jammed and immobile, to eject the round, I pushed/pulled on it vigorously until it "unjammed" but it didn't feel like it was moving at all until it finally unjammed.

9mmepiphany
10-07-2011, 8:07 PM
The round wasn't fully chambered and the slide wasn't fully closed...this was caused by your reloads seating to bullet too long and pushing the lead ogive too far into the chamber. No, I wasn't there and I'm not psychic, but the clues are all in your OP.

The trigger would not release the hammer and it would not fall - The disconnector hadn't allowed the trigger/sear/barrel to re-engage because the slide hadn't moved far enough forward

The slide was stuck and couldn't be moved to the rear - The ogive of the bullet had been pushed into the bore where it had deformed and stuck. The rim was still hooked under the extractor and was holding the slide in place

If this happens again, run your finger over the back of the slide and see if it is flush with the back of the rails and the extractor. If it is in battery, all three should be flush. If not the slide will be further to the rear than the back of the rails. A field expedient way to clear such a jam is to ram the front of the slide, under the barrel, against the edge of a table...another reason not to have a FLGR...while obeying the 4 rules of safe gun handling

zfields
10-07-2011, 8:15 PM
Ive always had to load lead a bit short. Had similar issues with my XD untill I shorted OAL on them, then shot fine. Still ended up switching to plated though.

Fishslayer
10-07-2011, 9:55 PM
Could be one of two issues with the reloads.

1. Could be OAL. Take a round and drop it in the barrel. It should "plunk" into the chamber and be flush or slightly below the breech surface. Turn it over and it should drop freely out of the barrel.

2. Could be lead slivers. If your seating die is closing the flair too soon or too much you could b shaving a sliver of lead that can interfere with chambering and the gun going fully into battery. If the seating die is shaving lead back it out a bit till it stops shaving.

Lead Waster
10-07-2011, 10:14 PM
Thanks for the tips guys!

The RIA has a FLGR, so the banging of the front might not work, my vigorous pushing pulling of the slide (with the gun pointed down range and the mag ejected) worked, I guess I was working the bullet into the chamber.

lead slivers, this is a possibility, but I use a separate crimping stage to avoid just this.

OK, I think the mystery is that the lead reloads had an OAL that the 1911 didn't like.

Thanks guys!

Fishslayer
10-07-2011, 11:25 PM
OK, I think the mystery is that the lead reloads had an OAL that the 1911 didn't like.

Thanks guys!

230gr LRN get loaded to 1.25" OAL
200gr LSWC I seat with the shoulder about .010" above the case mouth.
All work fine in my RIA.
AFTER I got the seating die to quit shaving slivers, that is. :facepalm:

The plunk test is key, tho.