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BigFatGuy
10-07-2011, 11:30 AM
My neighbor has a pit bull. He doesn't train it, doesn't even feed it more then once or twice a week. It lives in his back yard on a chain.

I recently convinced him to at least move dog from where it was chained (a pole from the fence seperating our back yards) to chain it up on a tree in the middle of his yard. The dog is big enough to make a mockery of a chain link fence, and it spent more time in my yard then in his.

One day, this 80/90/100 lb pit bull is going to get loose and go after my 30lb cocker spaniel, my wife, or myself.

I've been told that the state may not buy that I was in fear of my life if a single, unarmed, smaller human threatens me. (can't say I disagree there)

Can I assume a dog of this size counts as an armed threat? I can tell you I'm sure as hell afraid of it...

When the dog breaks through the fence, am I better off shooting it or cracking it over the head with a cinder block?

cmaynes
10-07-2011, 11:39 AM
the Police would shoot it if it was not on its back when they came on to the property. They are happy to do so-

DVSmith
10-07-2011, 12:00 PM
To start, I am not a lawyer, never played one on TV and have never shot a neighbor's dog, so this is just my thinking it through.

1st - you discharged a firearm most likely in violation of some law/ordinance.
2nd - you damaged or destroyed a neighbor's personal property (the dog)

The question becomes, where these reasonable responses to a threat or could you have retreated.

If you went into the house and grabbed a gun and went back out to shoot the dog, it seems hard to imagine you wouldn't be prosecuted for something.

If the dog had your child's head clamped in it's jaws and you went into the house, grabbed a gun and shot it, it seems hard to believe you would be prosecuted for anything.

I guess I come to the conclusion that if it is anything in between those two scenarios, you are taking your chances.

Just my thinking, in any case.

VaderSpade
10-07-2011, 12:30 PM
Get a chicken; if a dog even "worries" a chicken (or other livestock) you can shoot it.
There may be some zoning laws in your county that say otherwise, but in the country you can shoot it.

They just passed a law up here that says you can NOT keep a dog on a chain, I’m not sure if that law is statewide.

1859sharps
10-07-2011, 12:49 PM
so, a couple thoughts for you.

First, if the dog is truly being neglected, report it. if it turns out that how this neighbor is caring for (or not) their dog violates the law in some way, they will take the dog and that solves your problem

Second, think through the challenges of shooting a rapidly moving animal. Even if legal, it still might NOT be the smartest thing to do. And if you have time to get your gun, take aim, check behind where stray bullet may go etc... you probably have time to consider other options and evade. though I realize there is also the possibility of being take by surprise as well. just throwing out things to consider.

I would just hate for you to be cleared of shooting the dog (assuming that is a legal option) but to go to jail for the kid you hit that you didn't see while firing on the dog. tunnel vision does happen under stress and it's natural to zero in on the threat and block out everything else. countering this natural response takes LOTS and LOTS of training and practice. so consider what other options to shooting you have as discharging your gun might not be the best option in all cases and if so, then what?

Third, stop focusing on the fact this dog is a pit bull. start paying attention to what this dog does around people, other dogs etc. by the same token pay attention to what it doesn't do around people and or dogs. don't tunnel vision on it's breed. It's clouding your assessment of the situation.

Having had a pit bull jump me and my dog, I get why some people think they should be fearful of these dogs. And in some cases it's well founded, but not all by any means. I have learned a lot more about dogs since that day and while my dog WAS in danger, I wasn't. We actually weren't attacked in the sense most people think of that word. this dog was simply an out of control adolescent dog with no training. Not to mention the terrier side of the pit probably contributed to seeing my smaller dog as possible prey or maybe just something fun to "play" with. by keeping my cool and paying attention to the pit, what he was doing, what he wasn't the end result was despite having to pull my dog out of his mouth, neither me or my dog had a scratch on us. The pit ended up with a mouth full of dog harness, rather than my dog.

so, my point is. Unless this dog has learned to see humans as a threat or something to fear, odds are your dog is more in danger than you are if there is any danger at all. And if it gets loose and you keep your cool there is a good chance things will work out fairly well.

So while it always pays to know your legal options and to be prepared etc, etc. don't assume just because the other dog is a pit that means automatic trouble.

Aldemar
10-07-2011, 12:54 PM
If the dog is being treated in the manner in which you indicate (fed only once or twice a week) I'd start a paper trail with animal control. I'd also bet it's not licensed or had it's required shots.

Good luck trying to shoot it if the worst happens; trying to hit such a small fast moving object is no small accomplishment. Remember, you are accountable for every bullet that leaves the gun. Cinderblock? Doubtful you could get in a decisive blow before it gets to you.

IMHO, your best bet is to have the problem removed before it gets worse (see first paragraph.). Lacking that, bear spray is an alternative.

Edit...sharps beat me to it.

Crom
10-07-2011, 1:00 PM
Call your county animal control and report your neighbor for animal abuse. That should take care of that. Now if an insane dog, if there is such a thing, was loose in my yard and posed a threat I would not hesitate to open fire on it.

WWDHD?
10-07-2011, 1:01 PM
How about a better fence? A lot cheaper than a lawyer.
As stated before, contact Animal Control, invite them onto your property and let them take a look at this poor, neglected dogs condition. Maybe you'll luck out and get rid of the problem right there.
Take care of yourself, your family and your spaniel. Good luck.

guns4life
10-07-2011, 1:03 PM
Worry about how you can help the dog, not about how you can kill it.

moleculo
10-07-2011, 1:08 PM
No need to make this more difficult than it needs to be.

If the dog breaks free and goes after your dog, wife, kid, or hamster even, shoot it if you have to. Just make sure you have enough practice to hit what you're aiming at and not endanger the lives of others.

This reminds me of something that happened a few houses away from me a few years ago. I awoke to the sound of helicopters overhead, turned on the KTLA morning news and saw that they were showing a mountain lion trapped under a neighbors fence. It could not get out. They were interviewing the family who had pets and children and were quite scared. On the news, they said that there was some concern that the cat might have distemper or rabies (or something) because of the way it was acting. I told my wife that if that cat was trapped in my back yard acting like that, it would get shot, that would be the end of it, and we'd have a new rug in front of the fireplace. Well, the police came, animal control came, heck they even called in a special animal handler to try to figure out what to do. They tried to tranquilize it, but it didn't work for some reason. After 3 or 4 hours of trying to figure out what to do, they shot it and killed it. It cost the taxpayers thousands of dollars to do what every good rancher would have done within 5 minutes. Only in California..:nuts:

stix213
10-07-2011, 1:27 PM
My neighbor has a pit bull. He doesn't train it, doesn't even feed it more then once or twice a week. It lives in his back yard on a chain.


This is serious animal cruelty. You're morally obligated to report it in my opinion. Sad part is they will probably put the dog down :(

1859sharps
10-07-2011, 1:33 PM
This is serious animal cruelty. You're morally obligated to report it in my opinion. Sad part is they will probably put the dog down :(

Sad, yes. But no where as near as sad as how the dog is currently reported as living.

ivsamhell
10-07-2011, 1:36 PM
report it. keeping a dog chained up is BS.

Wolverine
10-07-2011, 1:48 PM
"...chain it up on a tree in the middle of his yard."

California Health and Safety Code, Division 105, Part 6, Chapter 8. Dog Tethering
(b) No person shall tether, fasten, chain, tie, or restrain a dog, or cause a dog to be tethered, fastened, chained, tied, or restrained, to a dog house, tree, fence, or any other stationary object.

There are exceptions that do not appear to apply here. If you call animal control and they decide to pursue it your neighbor will need to find more suitable accommodations for the animal.

I once had a neglected dog next door. With my neighbors permission, I in essence, adopted him and made him part of my pack even though he lived next door most of the time. Once he felt integrated into my pack I had no more problems with him.

stix213
10-07-2011, 1:53 PM
Sad, yes. But no where as near as sad as how the dog is currently reported as living.

Yes. How this dog is being treated is criminal

Farva
10-07-2011, 2:03 PM
Seems like every person these days looks for an excuse to kill something, opening fire on a dog attacking your dog just isnt smart in a residential neighborhood. Your risking missing the dog and hitting either your dog or another person.

Last weekend my wife and I came home after a day out and about, I parked the car in the driveway and see my two small dogs behind our locked fence super excited to see us, barking in excitement. Apparently our neighbors kid let their kennel caged pitbull out of his cage while he was doing yardwork. The pit hearing all the noise got 'excited' and literally broke through our 7 foot tall wooden fence and into our yard.

The neighbors dog immediately starts attacking my small colie type mix dog, pinning it up against the fence and just going to town. I run out of the car and go up to the fence yelling, realizing the fence is locked. I didnt want to open the fence and let the dog spill out into the front yard, so I run inside the house and head to the backyard. Note that as im running through the house im walking right passed my firearms, I am not about to shoot my neighbors dog in front of his 10 year old son and risk hurting anyone. My only weapon is a pair of steel toed boots and a Cold Steel Recon 1.

As I open the backdoor and run outside, instead of opening fire like a reckless moron and risking my dog or the neighbors child, or stabbing the dog repeatedly, I just give the dog a swift kick in the stomach with my steel toe boot. The pit let out a yelp but went back towards my dog so it got a kick to the face. This mixed with some loud shouting and the dog pretty much stopped. It did not show any aggression towards me, I was able to secure the dog and allow the neighbors to get their dog out of my yard. The attack seemed a lot worse than it was, a lot of slobber and some minor bite marks on my dog.

I wont go into details about my interactions with the neighbor after the event, but some of you are so eager to 'light stuff up' that its almost scary. They are just dogs, at worst I had a knife to defend myself with but going Rambo on the neighborhood is just reckless because you cant handle a damn dog. Most dogs dont even have human aggression, pit or not. Adding a firearm to that situation would not have solved a damn thing.

YubaRiver
10-07-2011, 2:13 PM
If pepper spray works on grizzly, it should do the trick on a dog.

If you had too, you could spray your own dog (even kid) in the process without fatal results.

In a less dangerous situation, a garden hose works too.

sirsloth
10-07-2011, 2:13 PM
This post seems a lot like premeditation.

It's a god damn dog. You're a human with a gun. Are you seriously sitting in such fear of the animal that you are drawing up hypothetical scenarios with which you can legally shoot it?

People with itchy trigger fingers seeking the blessing of their gun toting internet comrades.:rolleyes:

moleculo
10-07-2011, 2:31 PM
opening fire on a dog attacking your dog just isnt smart in a residential neighborhood. Your risking missing the dog and hitting either your dog or another person.


The OP's handle is "BigFatGuy" so I'm assuming he's big enough to handle a dog like you did in your story. However, his question was more general in nature.

Think about his question from the perspective of other readers that may have the same question. Do you suppose that every small-framed woman that is reading this forum can handle a full-sized dog, let alone one that has been neglected with breeding to kill? Obviously not. So rather than lecture on the responsibilities associated with making a decision to shoot the dog, why not just answer the question asked without all the rhetoric?

Why does everyone assume that the person owning the gun is irresponsible and cannot have sound mind to make a safe and clean shoot if or when it is necessary? This State's laws are so damn confusing that it certainly is a legitimate question. The answer is that YES, you can protect your family and pets and shoot the dog if or when it becomes necessary. Be responsible and be safe. Will it ever be necessary? Who knows and who cares. That wasn't the question that was asked.

I live in a densely populated city next to the foothills. Last month the neighbor shot at a coyote attacking his dog in the back yard. Coyotes are a very real problem here and we frequently have packs of 3 or 4 at a time roaming the neighborhood (actually every day). The cops showed up and asked what the shooting was about. He told them and they left. End of story.

Why does every simple question that is asked like this in this section result in pages of judgmental responses? Sheesh.

YubaRiver
10-07-2011, 2:36 PM
I kinda understand.

I had an elderly dog eviscerated by a neighbor's huge Malamute. Can't
imagine how sad it was to see the old family dog, a female no less, with her guts hanging out.

Since I arrived just after the fact and didn't see the attack in process, the dogs owners denied everything including the vet bill. Both neighbors were attorneys and friends of friends so I didn't feel it was worth it to push it. I did report it to animal control but with no witness they wouldn't put it in a report. The dog had attacked several other nearby dogs at other times too.
It lunged for me once when I was jogging by, but the owner pulled it back in time.

Sooo, I gave it some thought about what I would do if it was running
loose again and came into my yard where my now recovered dog or
my toddler were.

moleculo
10-07-2011, 2:38 PM
When the dog breaks through the fence, am I better off shooting it or cracking it over the head with a cinder block?

If this were in Texas, if the dog is on your property, you can do with it whatever you want. True story: A friend who lived in Texas for a while had a dog that got out, went over to the neighbors' dog and proceed to boink the neighbor's dog. The owner came out and shot the dog right in the middle of the action. Perfectly legal in Texas. Too bad, so sad for the dog.

This isn't Texas, though. Unless your family, pets, or property is in real danger, you don't have a reason to shoot the dog in this State. If you think you can handle the situation without shooting (baseball bat, cinder block), then go that route. If or when you have a real, credible threat, you or your wife might need to shoot. Be smart and be safe.

Farva
10-07-2011, 2:38 PM
The OP's handle is "BigFatGuy" so I'm assuming he's big enough to handle a dog like you did in your story. However, his question was more general in nature.

Think about his question from the perspective of other readers that may have the same question. Do you suppose that every small-framed woman that is reading this forum can handle a full-sized dog, let alone one that has been neglected with breeding to kill? Obviously not. So rather than lecture on the responsibilities associated with making a decision to shoot the dog, why not just answer the question asked without all the rhetoric?

Why does everyone assume that the person owning the gun is irresponsible and cannot have sound mind to make a safe and clean shoot if or when it is necessary? This State's laws are so damn confusing that it certainly is a legitimate question. The answer is that YES, you can protect your family and pets and shoot the dog if or when it becomes necessary. Be responsible and be safe. Will it ever be necessary? Who knows and who cares. That wasn't the question that was asked.

I live in a densely populated city next to the foothills. Last month the neighbor shot at a coyote attacking his dog in the back yard. Coyotes are a very real problem here and we frequently have packs of 3 or 4 at a time roaming the neighborhood (actually every day). The cops showed up and asked what the shooting was about. He told them and they left. End of story.

Why does every simple question that is asked like this in this section result in pages of judgmental responses? Sheesh.

Point taken.

glbtrottr
10-07-2011, 2:52 PM
My neighbor has a pit bull.

Others have told you: Ignore the breed and the stereotype it perpetuates. It's not the breed - IT'S THE DOG ITSELF. I know lovey dovey Mastiffs, and brutally aggressive Patterdales.

He doesn't train it, doesn't even feed it more then once or twice a week. It lives in his back yard on a chain.

He's not required to train it - it's his dog. It's my pet peeve that people don't; but he's not required to train it. Do you have a dog you train? I have ten. And a full time job. And a family full of women in the house. Training takes tons of time.
Do you supervise him enough to know how often he feeds it? Do you spy on the man?
My dogs eat Raw Food. The puppies eat twice a day. The adults eat a lot more infrequently than that on occasion, typically 3 percent of their body weight. Do you know how he feeds his dog?

I recently convinced him to at least move dog from where it was chained (a pole from the fence seperating our back yards) to chain it up on a tree in the middle of his yard. The dog is big enough to make a mockery of a chain link fence, and it spent more time in my yard then in his.

And it sounds like he complied. So he moved his dog, but you're still "uncomfortable". Hm. Do you want him to put a bark collar on his dog too, and then next paint his house a color that suits your taste?

One day, this 80/90/100 lb pit bull is going to get loose and go after my 30lb cocker spaniel, my wife, or myself.

And one day, a meteor will strike earth and we will all disintegrate. Seriously, man!
What scares me is people who have little cocker spaniels who are always coddling them, reinforcing aggressive behaviors because they're "small dogs", and going home crying when my dogs defend themselves, or who force me to keep my dogs in a higher level of stress because their "little dogs" are "so much smaller".
It's not the size of the dog, ITS THE DOG ITSELF.

I've been told that the state may not buy that I was in fear of my life if a single, unarmed, smaller human threatens me. (can't say I disagree there)

So you're a "Big Fat Guy" but you're scared of a little dog? That sounds clinical.
I think I have some BIG FAT Bite pants you can wear and be bitten by a real dog, and you may find it's not so bad. You may end up understanding dogs a little better.

Can I assume a dog of this size counts as an armed threat? I can tell you I'm sure as hell afraid of it...
If they were a person and they bit you...would you shoot them?

When the dog breaks through the fence, am I better off shooting it or cracking it over the head with a cinder block?

So the dog breaking through the fence is a foregone conclusion for you?
I'd go indoors and call animal control, unless your bloodlust is too much to contain yourself.

If you went into the house and grabbed a gun and went back out to shoot the dog, it seems hard to imagine you wouldn't be prosecuted for something

So let me get this straight. You're a big fat guy, and you envision walking in to get a gun, but if that's the case, why bother walking out? Why not wait for Animal Control / Law Enforcement?

First, if the dog is truly being neglected, report it.

Great way to make a good neighbor. If in fact the dog is neglected, I guess you should...but...methinks you're looking for an excuse to shoot a dog that you don't like.

http://dogpostdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Police-Dog.jpg

Here's a picture of a police dog inhaling. Lots of ribs, eh? The dog is skinny, and probably slightly underfed, but looking at the rest of the dog's structure it's not malnourished.
Take a look at the chart below - which index is the dog?

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Img/211882/0062145.jpg

This is serious animal cruelty. You're morally obligated to report it in my opinion. Sad part is they will probably put the dog down :(

So all we have for now is conjecture, rumor and opinion.
OP, can you submit a picture of the dog please?

And Stix - I'll provide pictures of serious animal cruelty which is not nearly what the OP described.

ahren111
10-07-2011, 2:57 PM
Too bad you couldn't take the neighbor chain him up outside & only feed him once a week. See how that a**hole likes it.

WilSin
10-07-2011, 3:04 PM
I totally agree, with Moleculo! I may not have a lot of experience with firearms, but I do know when some one has been whipped to the point of being overly cautious or fearful. Every thread that goes along the lines of this one, or anything that pertains to firearm laws, always seems to get flooded with how it won't pass or how you'll end up in jail, the majority of posters always look at how something can't work. It seems that most on the forum are gripped by this fear and tend to be a bit pessimistic. Being responsible and being safe is definitely a rule of thumb.

I say we should start by looking at how a problem can have a positive solution. Kinda like the whole CCW VS LTC thing, it really makes a difference on how subjects and words are put together or spoken of. If the goal is to help the masses be at peace with guns, then we should start with ourselves. The impression I get is that every one who owns a gun really feels like a fugitive :rolleyes:. We are not criminals!

I've really been surprised with family and friends that I've taken shooting or have come to know that I now possess fire arms. When I act normal and comfortable towards the subject, they do too! They don't question my reason, and don't condemn it either. Than I tried a little experiment with my cousin......... He was at my house, I called him in all secretively into the room where I keep my guns, and quietly took out my gun and in a low voice I said "Check out my handgun". He reacted in a scared and surprised, HOLLLLYYYY SHIIIAAAATTTT, that's a gunnnnnn!!!!! kind of way. It's all about attitude folks!

stix213
10-07-2011, 3:09 PM
So all we have for now is conjecture, rumor and opinion.
OP, can you submit a picture of the dog please?

And Stix - I'll provide pictures of serious animal cruelty which is not nearly what the OP described.

Feeding a dog once a week is not animal cruelty?

ahren111
10-07-2011, 3:12 PM
- I'll provide pictures of serious animal cruelty which is not nearly what the OP described.


It may not be "serious" animal cruelty but it still sounds like cruelty to me! Maybe you should be chained up right next to the owner.

glbtrottr
10-07-2011, 3:15 PM
Feeding a dog once a week is not animal cruelty?

You missed points in my post to suit your argument, such as this one:

"Do you supervise him enough to know how often he feeds it? Do you spy on the man? "

though you did mention these:
"So all we have for now is conjecture, rumor and opinion. OP, can you submit a picture of the dog please? "

So - I don't believe the dog was abused or underfed, until I see it.

stix213
10-07-2011, 3:21 PM
You missed points in my post to suit your argument, such as this one:

"Do you supervise him enough to know how often he feeds it? Do you spy on the man? "

though you did mention these:
"So all we have for now is conjecture, rumor and opinion. OP, can you submit a picture of the dog please? "

So - I don't believe the dog was abused or underfed, until I see it.

I didn't miss anything. I'm basing my comments on the truth of the OP. If he is not telling the truth then obviously that changes things. To just say you won't believe it until you see it is just ridiculous though, and pretty pointless. If you just want to call the OP a liar, then I don't really see the point in you thread crapping here anyway then.

ahren111
10-07-2011, 3:43 PM
http://dogpostdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Police-Dog.jpg

Here's a picture of a police dog inhaling. Lots of ribs, eh? The dog is skinny, and probably slightly underfed, but looking at the rest of the dog's structure it's not malnourished.

A police dog I'm assuming gets hours & hours & hours of training & exercise? Could this be part of the reason it looks do skinny, a dog that is chained up getting no exercise should not look even close to this pic of a police dog.

BigFatGuy
10-07-2011, 3:47 PM
1: I indicated it was a pit bull to give a general description. I am not afraid of all pit bulls, I know many pit bulls that are wonderful pets, and many of the dogs I've seen that are not trustworthy were not pit bulls. However, now that I said it was a pit bull, you can imagine the build, teeth, and speed with which it moves. Clearly, if it was an untrained chihuahua, this wouldn't be a problem.

1.5: I know enough about dogs to know that a lot of barking and noise is not generally a problem. A low grown with bared teeth and a steady stare, however, often is.

2: Yes, I do check on the dog daily, to make sure it isn't in my yard. When the food bowl is full on monday, empty and overturned on monday night, and doesn't move again til wednesday night...

3: a better fence (actually a cinderblock wall) is forthcoming, but I can't buy it with money I don't have right now

4: my assumption was that, if I needed to defend myself against the dog, it would be on top of me. I wasn't going to be taking pot-shots across the yard.

5: I've considered animal control... seriously considered... but at this point it would be obvious who called them. I'm also concerned that they would simply make him take the dog off the chain, in which case I'd come home to find my dog dead.

Jason P
10-07-2011, 4:37 PM
Seems like every person these days looks for an excuse to kill something, opening fire on a dog attacking your dog just isnt smart in a residential neighborhood. Your risking missing the dog and hitting either your dog or another person.

Last weekend my wife and I came home after a day out and about, I parked the car in the driveway and see my two small dogs behind our locked fence super excited to see us, barking in excitement. Apparently our neighbors kid let their kennel caged pitbull out of his cage while he was doing yardwork. The pit hearing all the noise got 'excited' and literally broke through our 7 foot tall wooden fence and into our yard.

The neighbors dog immediately starts attacking my small colie type mix dog, pinning it up against the fence and just going to town. I run out of the car and go up to the fence yelling, realizing the fence is locked. I didnt want to open the fence and let the dog spill out into the front yard, so I run inside the house and head to the backyard. Note that as im running through the house im walking right passed my firearms, I am not about to shoot my neighbors dog in front of his 10 year old son and risk hurting anyone. My only weapon is a pair of steel toed boots and a Cold Steel Recon 1.

As I open the backdoor and run outside, instead of opening fire like a reckless moron and risking my dog or the neighbors child, or stabbing the dog repeatedly, I just give the dog a swift kick in the stomach with my steel toe boot. The pit let out a yelp but went back towards my dog so it got a kick to the face. This mixed with some loud shouting and the dog pretty much stopped. It did not show any aggression towards me, I was able to secure the dog and allow the neighbors to get their dog out of my yard. The attack seemed a lot worse than it was, a lot of slobber and some minor bite marks on my dog.

I wont go into details about my interactions with the neighbor after the event, but some of you are so eager to 'light stuff up' that its almost scary. They are just dogs, at worst I had a knife to defend myself with but going Rambo on the neighborhood is just reckless because you cant handle a damn dog. Most dogs dont even have human aggression, pit or not. Adding a firearm to that situation would not have solved a damn thing.

Agreed. A man should be able to handle a dog. Even a big gnarly wolf should be no match for a prepared man. Canines are rarely (someone will undoubtedly point out the exception though) malicious to the point of perpetual attack unless THEIR young are involved. A solid kick or punch to most any mammal save a few exotic zoo animals should be enough to let any animal know you are the top tier predator in the encounter, and they will retreat. They will typically retreat quickly, with their tail between there legs, and may look at you as someone to be friends with instead of enemies almost immediately.

Honestly, if someone opens fire for anything but an armed two legged predator in the burbs, they deserve a good old fashioned ***-whooping. I love my Basset Hound Woodrow dearly, but his life is not the equal of someone's father, mother or child. And this is coming from someone who will not hesitate to shoot if the mood is right. I'll pop a BG coming into my house before he sets his Nikes on a grout line. Cue any music with rhythm now:)

That being said, even a knife against a big dog is honestly overkill. I did door to door sales for 3.5 years in every demographic of neighborhood you could imagine, and I've punched and kicked more than a couple of dogs that are indeed scary, but they are not a NFL safety hopped up on angel dust. They are an animal that has built in instincts not to take too bad of a beating.

That being said, in the rarest of circumstances, 25 yard shot, big angry dog (insert breed here) is about to clamp his jaws down on a human, take the shot if you CAN MAKE IT.

But randomly opening fire in a residential neighborhood because a dog attacks is borderline retarded in probably 99% of cases.

Jason P
10-07-2011, 4:44 PM
1: I indicated it was a pit bull to give a general description. I am not afraid of all pit bulls, I know many pit bulls that are wonderful pets, and many of the dogs I've seen that are not trustworthy were not pit bulls. However, now that I said it was a pit bull, you can imagine the build, teeth, and speed with which it moves. Clearly, if it was an untrained chihuahua, this wouldn't be a problem.

1.5: I know enough about dogs to know that a lot of barking and noise is not generally a problem. A low grown with bared teeth and a steady stare, however, often is.

2: Yes, I do check on the dog daily, to make sure it isn't in my yard. When the food bowl is full on monday, empty and overturned on monday night, and doesn't move again til wednesday night...

3: a better fence (actually a cinderblock wall) is forthcoming, but I can't buy it with money I don't have right now

4: my assumption was that, if I needed to defend myself against the dog, it would be on top of me. I wasn't going to be taking pot-shots across the yard.

5: I've considered animal control... seriously considered... but at this point it would be obvious who called them. I'm also concerned that they would simply make him take the dog off the chain, in which case I'd come home to find my dog dead.

Honestly, I'd go talk to my neighbor man to man and let him know I find the situation unacceptable. I'd be willing to offer to help him build a proper dog kennel or enclosed cage system if he buys the materials.

Most people are still somewhat reasonable and decent when approached in a civilized manner. Especially in the burbs. Now if he is not civil, or open to accepting your offer of NEIGHBORLY assistance, let him know that either animal control will handle it, or you will if the dog comes into your yard. Either way he'll have his notice. My bet is it won't come to that.

But I'm willing to bet this guy doesn't want to rock the boat in your little cul de sac anymore than most people would who have assets and liabilities that may or may not be covered by their "aggressive" breed of god tearing through local bipeds and quadrapeds on a rampage.

Your neighbor is probably starting to or already has concerns about the dog situation, so having you on his side might benefit you both...

Dutch3
10-07-2011, 5:52 PM
From past experience...

Sure, talk to the neighbor. If he understands your language, all the better.

If not, or if it does not lead to a resolution...shoot, shovel and shut up.

Shellshocker66
10-07-2011, 6:10 PM
Seriously think about that poor dog and call someone to come check on it. Call a couple of Pitt Bull rescue groups and let them know what you think about the treatment of the dog, call animal control, or SPCA, just call somebody if the dog is truly being left outside, chained up without proper food and you didn't mention if the dog has water?

I know you said your worried he will know who called in the complaint, but if you shoot his dog don't you think he is going to know? And most cities have leash requirements, so if he takes the dog off the chain and then it jumps the fence it can legally be picked up for non-restraint.

ssaction
10-07-2011, 9:30 PM
Worry about how you can help the dog, not about how you can kill it.

+1

The problem is your neighbor, not the dog. BTW, you can't shoot him either.

vonderplatz
10-07-2011, 9:43 PM
If the city has Animal Control, don't call them. Call the SPCA they are better suited to handle abuse issues. If what you say is true the animal is being abused and you should call the SPCA.

gunsmith
10-07-2011, 10:54 PM
please help the poor doggie! If it indeed poses a threat like maiming/death you have a right to shoot it-but please do your best not to.

anyway, why is everyone piling on this guy for? for goodness sakes! put down the caffeine!

huntercf
10-07-2011, 10:56 PM
A few years back, there was a neighbor who let his 3 big dogs run loose in the neighborhood. They came after my young children once, I had the next door neighbor tell him (we weren't on speaking terms) tell him that if his dogs came after my children again I wouldn't be worried about the local ordinances and his dogs would be shot. From then on the dogs were locked up in his backyard. I am glad it ended there as shooting an animal IMO is the last thing I would want to do (except during hunting season) because it is not the animal's fault it is the owner's.

ibanezfoo
10-08-2011, 12:57 AM
The fact that this question has to even be asked tells you there is something wrong with the laws in this state. Do you own your property or don't you? Is the beast on your property? Why is it anyone else's business what happens at that point? All this BS about what "might" happen is why we have all the stupid laws we do. If you mess up and put a round through someone else's property, yeah, you need to be punished for that. Until that happens, WTF is all the "what if this happens, what if that happens" Yeah, well what if it doesn't? What if the threat is eliminated and everyone gets on with their lives and the ex-dog owner gets a lesson in what happens when you don't handle your property? See there, its not ok for you to put a stray round through someones window (rightfully so) but apparently its ok for a potentially lethal animal to have free access to the property you own... makes sense... Everyone is so concerned about what MIGHT happen. I don't understand why people don't just bubble wrap themselves and lock themselves in a closet... lots of bad things MIGHT happen in this big bad world we live in. I know the government likes to maintain a monopoly on violence but in reality they would probably shoot the dog on your property anyway. Why can they do it but you cannot? Odds are, being on this forum, you are more well equipped to handle a firearm anyway... so all the MIGHT (hit the neighbors house, shoot your own foot, shoot the monkeys flying out of someones butt, or any other thing that MIGHT happen) I would think applies more to the cops than to anyone here...

Tacobandit
10-08-2011, 1:00 AM
Yes you can shoot it

No you wont get charged with discharging a firearm

ErikTheRed
10-08-2011, 1:17 AM
Buy a Rhodesian Ridgeback and put him on Pit Bull patrol in your backyard. Problem solved. :)

cmaynes
10-08-2011, 9:36 AM
Worry about how you can help the dog, not about how you can kill it.

^^^ home run ^^^^

Dreaded Claymore
10-08-2011, 4:48 PM
Fellows, this is a really good thread.

This is Calguns.net, and it's about guns. It's understandable that we think about guns and their use when we're here. I'm glad to have read this thread, because it reminded me to think outside the gun box. In a pinch, guns are useful, but being able to figure out how to avoid that situation is more than 8,000 times more useful. This is also the reason you should always try to avoid a violent revolution by voting and activism.

I'm pretty sure that BigFatGuy has drawn the same conclusions I have once he read this thread, even if he hadn't thought of them before: Look at the whole situation with open eyes and look at all of the possible solutions, starting with the most proactive ones.

Thank you all who contributed to this thread for reminding me of these important lessons. :notworthy:

InGrAM
10-08-2011, 4:59 PM
This post seems a lot like premeditation.

It's a god damn dog. You're a human with a gun. Are you seriously sitting in such fear of the animal that you are drawing up hypothetical scenarios with which you can legally shoot it?

People with itchy trigger fingers seeking the blessing of their gun toting internet comrades.:rolleyes:

When a dog attacks you or your kids you will think quite differently. Not all animals are fuzzy little things that just want your love. This is the real world.

cmaynes
10-08-2011, 5:50 PM
When a dog attacks you or your kids you will think quite differently. Not all animals are fuzzy little things that just want your love. This is the real world.

the only place this would be defensible is on your property. If the threat is tangible you may be ok.... I would strong suggest not missing though.

InGrAM
10-08-2011, 7:08 PM
the only place this would be defensible is on your property. If the threat is tangible you may be ok.... I would strong suggest not missing though.

You really think the OP is going to shoot a dog that is not threatening his life or the life of his family? And I am positive if a dog attacked me while I was walking down the street to get my mail and I shot it, then I would be well within my right to.

Andy Taylor
10-08-2011, 7:11 PM
I'm not going to address the legality of shooting the dog, but pepper spray (OC) is extremely effective on dogs, moreso than on humans. I have first hand knowledge of both.
Use pepper on the dog if need be. It will be easier than shooting it, with less liklyhood of repercussions.
CN or CS gas (Mace brand and others) will NOT work on a dog. They do not have tear ducts.
That said, do try to get animal control involved. It does sound like the nieghbor is abusing this animal. Get him help, before you have to do anything.

TNP'R
10-09-2011, 6:43 PM
As others said if it being mistreated report it you don't have to make yourself known as the person that reported it.

Tacobandit
10-09-2011, 8:35 PM
My neighbor has a pit bull. He doesn't train it, doesn't even feed it more then once or twice a week. It lives in his back yard on a chain.

I recently convinced him to at least move dog from where it was chained (a pole from the fence seperating our back yards) to chain it up on a tree in the middle of his yard. The dog is big enough to make a mockery of a chain link fence, and it spent more time in my yard then in his.

One day, this 80/90/100 lb pit bull is going to get loose and go after my 30lb cocker spaniel, my wife, or myself.

I've been told that the state may not buy that I was in fear of my life if a single, unarmed, smaller human threatens me. (can't say I disagree there)

Can I assume a dog of this size counts as an armed threat? I can tell you I'm sure as hell afraid of it...

When the dog breaks through the fence, am I better off shooting it or cracking it over the head with a cinder block?


I see you live in compton are you LASD or LAPD? As it borders Southeast division LAPD, if so you can contact the animal cruelty task force and they will come out and investigate, http://www.lapdonline.org/actf or the LASD, or the SPCA LA http://www.spcala.com/, they have sworn humane officers who can investigate. Start making complaints about the dog and how vicious it is that way when you do need to put it down you can show that you made every effort to contact local law enforcement and they failed to act on it.

SoCalXD
10-10-2011, 10:44 AM
Shoot the neighbor, feed the dog!

Pepper spray man. It works great on all dogs. Don't let your anger towards your neighbor allow you to make bad decisions. Read my review of the Fox Labs product for more info: http://amzn.com/B002S512GG

CookeMonster
12-09-2011, 3:22 PM
Bump an old thread instead of starting a new one.

I too am curious if there has been much in the way of case law to reference for shooting an aggressive animal. There are plenty of Rambos in here that can defend themselves against large wolves and such, but as a former Marine who is now fairly disabled following a motorcycle accident I'm confident I can't even defend myself against my 90 pound bulldog. I'm not sure my wife could either, though she could easily whip my butt right now. In my back yard or walking down the street, how has this been handled by the legal system?

For those recommending pepper spray, I only have so many pockets and sometimes none, but I always have my pistol.

scrat
12-09-2011, 3:55 PM
+1 on pepper spray

Doheny
12-09-2011, 5:00 PM
This post seems a lot like premeditation.

It's a god damn dog. You're a human with a gun. Are you seriously sitting in such fear of the animal that you are drawing up hypothetical scenarios with which you can legally shoot it?

People with itchy trigger fingers seeking the blessing of their gun toting internet comrades.:rolleyes:

What he said.

InGrAM
12-09-2011, 5:03 PM
What he said.

:facepalm:

gunsmith
12-10-2011, 12:55 PM
please help the poor doggie! If it indeed poses a threat like maiming/death you have a right to shoot it-but please do your best not to.

anyway, why is everyone piling on this guy for? for goodness sakes! put down the caffeine!

nope! what I said is better!. ... I wonder what ever happened to the doggie/neighbor.

tyrist
12-10-2011, 3:43 PM
Generally speaking you cannot shoot a dog to protect another dog. You can shoot a dog to protect a human being.

chiselchst
12-10-2011, 4:08 PM
Generally speaking you cannot shoot a dog to protect another dog. You can shoot a dog to protect a human being.

Remember this case last year? I don't think this shooter was charged with anything...he was considered a hero for saving lives.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rRC2CSe72o

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local/north_bay&id=7662427

stitchnicklas
12-10-2011, 5:14 PM
in riverside it is legal to shoot dogs,compton not so much i imagine