PDA

View Full Version : New style of tracer possibly CA legal?


tuncas
10-07-2011, 10:23 AM
I just read about this new type of tracer in an engineering magazine I get. Made by Hallam Inc. its called Glow Ammo. It is a small (1 grain wt.) sticker you adhere to the base of a bullet before loading it into the casing. It is infused with chemicals which capture energy from the exploding charge and emmit it as light on its way to the target. I wonder if it could be CA legal because unlike ordinary tracers, it does not create heat so there is no risk of fire or flame. Another advantage is that because only the back of the flying bullet creates light, the shooter is able to see the tracer effect, but no one from the front or side can. It looks pretty sweet, only thing that sucks is you have to have a reloading setup. Available for 9mm, .40, and .45 handgun ammo.

glowammo.com

Merc1138
10-07-2011, 10:31 AM
The PC regarding tracers does not specify "heat", it specifies any chemical attached to the back of the projectile. I posted a thread asking about this same thing a couple of months back and after reading how crappy the penal code is written it could easily be argued that they're still tracers.

To clarify just how dumb the PC is, if you glued chocolate chips to the back of your bullets before seating them, and got your friends to refer to them as "tracers", you would be in possesion of a DD.

The problematic text from PC 12301a1
(a) The term "destructive device," as used in this chapter,
shall include any of the following weapons:
(1) Any projectile containing any explosive or incendiary material
or any other chemical substance, including, but not limited to, that
which is commonly known as tracer or incendiary ammunition, except
tracer ammunition manufactured for use in shotguns.

There is no requirement that the chemical substance produce heat/light/flame/react/etc. The round only has to be commonly known as a tracer, not be specifically branded a "tracer".

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=469600

Diabolus
10-07-2011, 10:53 AM
The PC regarding tracers does not specify "heat", it specifies any chemical attached to the back of the projectile. I posted a thread asking about this same thing a couple of months back and after reading how crappy the penal code is written it could easily be argued that they're still tracers.

To clarify just how dumb the PC is, if you glued chocolate chips to the back of your bullets before seating them, and got your friends to refer to them as "tracers", you would be in possesion of a DD.

The problematic text from PC 12301a1


There is no requirement that the chemical substance produce heat/light/flame/react/etc. The round only has to be commonly known as a tracer, not be specifically branded a "tracer".

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=469600


Imagine going to the clink for some fresh baked .308 with chocolate chips.

bwiese
10-07-2011, 11:16 AM
Thanks to Merc1138 for reading and understanding the problematic broadness of the law.

Now I vaguely believe there may be some CA exemption for certain shotgun ammo that offers 'tracer' functionality - likely this was exempted for animal control purposes.

tuncas
10-07-2011, 11:47 AM
Sorry about the dupe. I searched glow ammo and didn't find anything recent. I thought it was new because it was in a magazine from this month.

Merc1138
10-07-2011, 1:04 PM
Thanks to Merc1138 for reading and understanding the problematic broadness of the law.

Now I vaguely believe there may be some CA exemption for certain shotgun ammo that offers 'tracer' functionality - likely this was exempted for animal control purposes.

The shotgun tracer exemption is right at the end of 12301a1.

tuncas, as annoying as I find duplicate posts of the same video about slow motion rounds hitting objects with techno music posted 50 times, asking questions where the answer may help to keep you out of jail is always fine in my book(well, when it's not obvious in the flowchart at the top of the page at least).

In my post(and there were threads about it prior to mine, just no discussion beyond "it's fun so it must be banned") I actually mentioned a major problem with how vague the law is. Specifically because it states "any other chemical substance" well... everything is a chemical substance. Lead oxide(PbO), copper oxide(Cu2O), burnt powder stuck to the back of a round, carbon, leftover oil in the barrel, steel core bullets, etc.

I suspect that if a DA were seriously dumb enough to try using the dictionary definition of "chemical" in conjunction with the PC, that the whole thing would get thrown out in court due to it's vagueness. But I doubt any DA would be that silly, or anyone be willing to make that challenge.

Garand1911
10-07-2011, 1:11 PM
fiocchi canned heat chem tracer

http://www.fiocchiusa.com.foahost.arvixevps.com/uploads/fiocchi.jpg

http://youtu.be/EdwYuOVpJQA

Merc1138
10-07-2011, 1:16 PM
fiocchi canned heat chem tracer

http://youtu.be/EdwYuOVpJQA

Yes, we know. But that's only for shotguns.

timdps
10-07-2011, 7:20 PM
"(a) The term "destructive device," as used in this chapter,
shall include any of the following weapons:
(1) Any projectile containing any explosive or incendiary material
or any other chemical substance, including, but not limited to, that
which is commonly known as tracer or incendiary ammunition, except
tracer ammunition manufactured for use in shotguns."

Something stuck on the back of a projectile is not "contained" within the projectile. Sounds eminently challengable if not downright legal...

Merc1138
10-07-2011, 7:36 PM
"(a) The term "destructive device," as used in this chapter,
shall include any of the following weapons:
(1) Any projectile containing any explosive or incendiary material
or any other chemical substance, including, but not limited to, that
which is commonly known as tracer or incendiary ammunition, except
tracer ammunition manufactured for use in shotguns."

Something stuck on the back of a projectile is not "contained" within the projectile. Sounds eminently challengable if not downright legal...

While it does specify "containing", a cap on the back of the round that pops off or otherwise contains the tracer material itself in a normal round could be compared to whatever is holding the glow material in place now that the sticker has been stuck to the projectile and is part of it.

That just gets back to what I said about someone willing to risk it, as I recall the state charges each round as an individual DD at 5 years a pop.