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Kodemonkey
10-07-2011, 9:10 AM
I searched but couldn't find the answer.

from the CA AG website:


Is a Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) required when a handgun is being loaned?
It depends on the specific circumstances. Generally, a person being loaned a handgun must have a current Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC). However, an HSC is not required when the loan does not exceed three days in duration and the person loaning the handgun is at all times within the presence of the person being loaned the handgun.


So, I can't loan a cop friend a handgun because he doesn't have an HSC? I couldn't find anything that said "unless you are an exempted from needing one".

I'd just love to tell my friend; "sorry, I can't loan you my Glock because you don't have an HSC."

vmwerks
10-07-2011, 9:22 AM
Never loan a gun out - it's very bad idea. My only exceptions are my father or brother. Both are proficient on anything with a trigger.

CycloSteve
10-07-2011, 9:28 AM
Hmm, I was under the impression that the HSC only applied to the purchase of handguns, not loaning. Interested to know the real truth here or if the CA AG website is spreading FUD on this one...which would not be new.

With regards to the loaning to a cop or other "exempted" category (active or retired military, LEO, LTC, POST trained, FFl + COE), they do not need a HSC.

OleCuss
10-07-2011, 9:29 AM
LEO's are considered trained and are exempted from needing a HSC. California carry license holders are also exempt from needing an HSC.

I have a carry license and so don't need an HSC to buy, or possess a pistol.

Icypu
10-07-2011, 9:33 AM
My friends don't even let me borrow their handguns. My suggestion is only loan someone a gun temporarily while you are with them at the range next to them.

zx9rdr
10-07-2011, 9:36 AM
Not a legal professional but...

If an associate already has a collection of firearms, and an expired HSC (which is the same as not having a valid HSC), I don't see why he wouldn't be able to be loaned a firearm since he already owns and is not of a prohibited class...

Or put this way, having an expired or in-valid HSC is the same as not having one, which doesn't disqualify me from possessing per se...

So I'd see this as a grey area leaning towards okay to loan...

AragornElessar86
10-07-2011, 9:54 AM
Just don't do it. It's a bad idea.

tankarian
10-07-2011, 10:01 AM
It is always a bad idea to loan your guns, motorcycle and wife.

dantodd
10-07-2011, 10:26 AM
CA Penal Code 12078 seems to be the portion that requires one to have an HSC to receive a firearm as a loan from a friend or relative:

2078(d)(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent loan of firearms between persons who are personally known to each other for any lawful purpose, if the loan does not exceed 30 days in duration and, when the firearm is a handgun, commencing January 1, 2003, the individual being loaned the handgun has a valid handgun safety certificate.

As far as I can see there is no exemption for LTC holders, police officers or others who are otherwise exempted from the HSC requirements.

paul0660
10-07-2011, 10:43 AM
They don't list a section, but there is this;

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hsc2.php

A loan is a transfer. Except for the 3 day/in presence thing, a HSC or exemption is required.

Ubermcoupe
10-07-2011, 10:53 AM
Taken from: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs.php#a16

Is a Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) required when a handgun is being loaned?
It depends on the specific circumstances. Generally, a person being loaned a handgun must have a current Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC). However, an HSC is not required when the loan does not exceed three days in duration and the person loaning the handgun is at all times within the presence of the person being loaned the handgun.



Although I don't understand how you can loan something to someone for three days and still be with them...:shrug:



It is always a bad idea to loan your guns, motorcycle and wife.
:rofl:

Flying Sig
10-07-2011, 10:58 AM
LEO's are considered trained and are exempted from needing a HSC. California carry license holders are also exempt from needing an HSC.

I have a carry license and so don't need an HSC to buy, or possess a pistol.


This ^^^^. LEO's are exempt, so loan away....

Kodemonkey
10-07-2011, 11:01 AM
CA Penal Code 12078 seems to be the portion that requires one to have an HSC to receive a firearm as a loan from a friend or relative:



As far as I can see there is no exemption for LTC holders, police officers or others who are otherwise exempted from the HSC requirements.


That's what I am looking for. I'll cite it when I tell him he can't borrow my toys.

dantodd
10-07-2011, 11:12 AM
Although I don't understand how you can loan something to someone for three days and still be with them...:shrug:

Ever been on a hunting trip?

paul0660
10-07-2011, 11:15 AM
That's what I am looking for. I'll cite it when I tell him he can't borrow my toys.

Ok, but it isn't true.

12801(b) No person shall do either of the following:
(1) Purchase or receive any handgun, except an antique firearm, as
defined in paragraph (16) of subsection (a) of Section 921 of Title
18 of the United States Code, without a valid handgun safety
certificate.
(2) Sell, deliver, loan, or transfer any handgun, except an
antique firearm, as defined in paragraph (16) of subsection (a) of
Section 921 of Title 18 of the United States Code, to any person who
does not have a valid handgun safety certificate.


12807. (a) The following persons, properly identified, are exempted
from the handgun safety certificate requirement in subdivision (b)
of Section 12801:
(1) Any active or honorably retired peace officer, as defined in
Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
(2) Any active or honorably retired federal officer or law
enforcement agent.
(3) Any reserve peace officer, as defined in Section 832.6.
(4) Any person who has successfully completed the course of
training specified in Section 832.
(5) A firearms dealer licensed pursuant to Section 12071, who is
acting in the course and scope of his or her activities as a person
licensed pursuant to Section 12071.
(6) A federally licensed collector who is acquiring or being
loaned a handgun that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section
478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, who has a
current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the
department pursuant to Section 12071.
(7) A person to whom a handgun is being returned, where the person
receiving the firearm is the owner of the firearm.
(8) A family member of a peace officer or deputy sheriff from a
local agency who receives a firearm pursuant to Section 50081 of the
Government Code.
(9) Any individual who has a valid concealed weapons permit issued
pursuant to Section 12050.
(10) An active, or honorably retired member of the United States
Armed Forces, the National Guard, the Air National Guard, the active
reserve components of the United States, where individuals in those
organizations are properly identified. For purposes of this section,
proper identification includes the Armed Forces Identification Card,
or other written documentation certifying that the individual is an
active or honorably retired member.
(11) Any person who is authorized to carry loaded firearms
pursuant to subdivision (c) or (d) of Section 12031.
(12) Persons who are the holders of a special weapons permit
issued by the department pursuant to Section 12095, 12230, 12250, or
12305.
(b) The following persons who take title or possession of a
handgun by operation of law in a representative capacity, until or
unless they transfer title ownership of the handgun to themselves in
a personal capacity, are exempted from the handgun safety certificate
requirement in subdivision (b) of Section 12801:
(1) The executor or administrator of an estate.
(2) A secured creditor or an agent or employee thereof when the
firearms are possessed as collateral for, or as a result of, or an
agent or employee thereof when the firearms are possessed as
collateral for, or as a result of, a default under a security
agreement under the Commercial Code.
(3) A levying officer, as defined in Section 481.140, 511.060, or
680.260 of the Code of Civil Procedure.
(4) A receiver performing his or her functions as a receiver.
(5) A trustee in bankruptcy performing his or her duties.
(6) An assignee for the benefit of creditors performing his or her
functions as an assignee.

dantodd
10-07-2011, 11:21 AM
Ok, but it isn't true.

thanks for posting the exemption.

paul0660
10-07-2011, 11:26 AM
thanks for posting the exemption.

Yw. Took some advanced googlefu. They used to include the pc number with their faqs, but no more.

ALSystems
10-07-2011, 11:38 AM
It is always a bad idea to loan your guns, motorcycle and wife.
In that order? :rolleyes:

Smokeybehr
10-07-2011, 11:50 AM
(4) Any person who has successfully completed the course of
training specified in Section 832.

Does this mean that I can wave my PC832 letter from before the HSC came about at my local FFL and not have to deal with renewing my expired HSC?

paul0660
10-07-2011, 11:56 AM
Does this mean that I can wave my PC832 letter from before the HSC came about at my local FFL and not have to deal with renewing my expired HSC?

Yes

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/hscman.pdf

sholling
10-07-2011, 11:56 AM
Never loan a gun out - it's very bad idea. My only exceptions are my father or brother.
+1 I never ever loan guns out. I might let a friend shoot my weapons under my direct supervision but no guns leave my sight.

otalps
10-07-2011, 1:07 PM
Ok, but it isn't true.

Whoah, there's no family exemption. What is the penalty for loaning to someone without and HSC?

I wonder how often this law get's broken everyday in this state.

tankarian
10-07-2011, 1:18 PM
In that order? :rolleyes:

No. They're equally important so there is no priority there.

scarville
10-07-2011, 1:18 PM
Whoah, there's no family exemption. What is the penalty for loaning to someone without and HSC?

I wonder how often this law get's broken everyday in this state.
I guess a man cannot let his wife have one of his gun unless she has an HSC. Gotta wonder what other pro-violence and rape-friendly laws those idiots in Sacramento have created.

dantodd
10-07-2011, 1:18 PM
Yw. Took some advanced googlefu. They used to include the pc number with their faqs, but no more.

Probably because of the renumbering that is being phased in. I'm pretty sure the new numbers are already officially in effect but I almost always use the DOJ site for gun laws and they are out of date.

Swiss
10-07-2011, 1:32 PM
Thank you for pointing that out. Why the heck isn't that exemption there?

Whoah, there's no family exemption. What is the penalty for loaning to someone without and HSC?

I wonder how often this law get's broken everyday in this state.

otalps
10-07-2011, 1:39 PM
I guess a man cannot let his wife have one of his gun unless she has an HSC.

That's exactly what I was thinking. There are a lot of people that never even heard of an HSC that probably loan handguns to their spouses for whatever reason everyday.

marcusrn
10-07-2011, 8:48 PM
CCW civilians or PC 832 civilian holders are exempt from HSC.

Years ago when I learned to shoot pistols at Orange County Sheriffs range they delighted in instructing civilians who were serious about shooting. They let me take a PC 832 class for no fee and thereafter they let me shoot with LEO on the rapid fire side of their outdoor range.They promoted the cops who were serious shooters in those days and who enjoyed instructing. I will always feel indebted to those people.

We live in different times now. So sad. Still NRA programs train good percentage of LEO in this country.

Mssr. Eleganté
10-07-2011, 11:21 PM
Your police officer friend still needs an HSC in order to borrow your handgun on his own. The police officer exemption posted above is only for the HSC requirements of PC Section 12801(b). So if you loan it to him by temporarily transferring it to him through a California licensed dealer (PPT with DROS) then he is exempt from needing an HSC. You would then have to do another PPT at a dealer to get it back from him after the loan.

But you are planning to loan it to him via the 12078(d) dealerless 30 day loan. There is no HSC exemption for law enforcement under 12078(d).