Can’o worms

[Bolt2Bounce]

Correct me if I wrong here on some points
I have some thoughts on PROK and the AR-15 type rifles.


Off list lowers = a fixed 10 rd mag either welded, pinned or a blind mag well with a 10 rd magazine installed. it can be had with the AW SB23 parts- i.e Flash suppressor, collapsable stocks, forward pistol grips etc-, but must "Requires tools" to un-attach the magazine- but it cannot use magazines over 10 rds- !ever! :eek: They are Legal to -buy -sell -transfer in the state of Kalifornia? The pined OL Lower can be easily convert able to pre -ban config- with a tool- SO these don’t really have to be a OLL, unless the receiver was brought into the state- After 1999-2000 yes no maybe so?? a twist to this one, if a Assault weapon was never registered as a AW in 89 or 2000 but was moved out of state by the owner, as to avoid the registration as a AW, can it be converted to SB23 compliant and brought back into the state by the owner? yes

or other option is a

AR type w/ Detachable mags - any round count magazine W/o any SB-23 parts = can be a OLL or a, R&R ban lower? ???


Assault weapons that were registered, in 19 89 R&R ban weapons requires the rifle be transported just like a hand gun, in a locked container- also requires the weapon to be transported to and from home /business/ storage place directly to and from shooting range or area of use, they can only be used at a private/public range or on private property with written permission of use. so BLM use is banned -- most public land w/o written consent is banned --i.e state forest land is banned- get the picture.... A OLL is not a AW, so it’s uses are wider adding value to it and it does not have to be locked up to transport etc.

SB23 ban 1999 effective 2000 same as above-

case law "series" AR and AK law established a ban made a ( listed) and a (off List lowers)

so DOJ can’t add to the AW list anymore so a OLL can NEVER be registered as a Assault weapon?? :confused:


So companies can send into california OLL or Off List complete rifles- as easy as OLL so why are they not doing so???? They’d make a Sh@t-load more money in doing this. :p

Another question 1989 ban receivers or rifles that were registered can they be removed from the register and converted to SB23 comp? I understand you can remove a registered assault weapon from your records of you sell it or move it out of state. What about a refund of your registration funds??? :D
B2B

[Crazed_SS]

So companies can send into california OLL or Off List complete rifles- as easy as OLL so why are they not doing so???? They’d make a Sh@t-load more money in doing this

Because the legality of pinned OLL rifles isnt exactly cut and dry. FFLs and gun shops are scared or dont want any negative attention.

Like I said before, there are 5 gun shops within 10 mins of me. None of them stock OLLs or have them on display. Only one of them will do transfers and they have you sign a document basically stating that you understand the legality of building a OLL rifle.

I did go to Ammo Bros this weekend and they had gripless AKs and OLLs on display and for sale :D

Personally, I want to see Saigas on the shelves of gun shops.

[hoffmang]

CWS will send in complete rifles.

This is slowly shaking out and you're going to see natural competition make this more and more common. All it takes is one or two FFLs calling BS on DOJ (and that is already happening) and stores will start stocking these in CA legal built configurations.

-Gene

[JPN6336]

As to one of your questions, if a receiver is on the list and was not registered it is an assault weapon no matter what features it does or does not have.

[echoplex]

if a receiver is on the list and was not registered it is an assault weapon no matter what features it does or does not have.
...unless your name is Evan (http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/Evans-Gun-Smithing-2004-11-19.pdf).

Thanks Iggy.

[Bolt2Bounce]

That is what I was asking about. I've read about the Bushmaster XM-15's receivers with a welded plate on the mag well that were being sold in souther Ca gun show early on in the OLL craze. but Bushmaster's have been on the list, for a while, so is this not an Assault Weapon by name, on list, brought into the state and sold after the cut off date of 2000. seems if this is true, that any receiver listed or not can be changed to be SB23 compliant and be made legal ?? I understand if a AW was not reg it can not stay in the state, but many people moved their AW out of state rather than registering them. Can they be made SB23 compliant now and brought back in?? With a tools required magazine button fixed stock FS removed etc????? B2B

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." -- Thomas Jefferson

[jjperl]

So companies can send into california OLL or Off List complete rifles- as easy as OLL so why are they not doing so???? They’d make a Sh@t-load more money in doing this. :p B2B

There are compalies selling complete OLL rifles, such as Atlantic Firearms.
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/programming/listview.asp?CatId=0

[ivanimal]

It is my understanding that a listed reciever is illegal regardless of feature. It would be prudent to just buy an OLL and use all other parts to complete a new rifle. As for a registered AW there are many benefits to just keeping the reciever apart from the gun as you can always run whatever you want including 50 BMG on it. Having a registered AW does have some advantages. Competitions guns come to mind. I wouldnt even go down the path of un-registering a gun as then they really win. Even if you did get your money back.



I would not touch a named reciever with a 50 foot pole.:cool:

[JPN6336]

I'm not sure if the California Bushmasters with integral magazines are XM15 models. A receiver by a listed manufacturer with a different model name is not considered listed. As far as I know, Bushmaster has a letter from CA DOJ stating that the integral magazine rifles and receivers are not assault weapons. Unless you have a similar letter, any receiver or rifle on the list is an assault weapon. If it's not registered as such then it is illegal for you to possess it no matter what configuration you have it in.

[blkA4alb]

I'm not sure if the California Bushmasters with integral magazines are XM15 models. A receiver by a listed manufacturer with a different model name is not considered listed. As far as I know, Bushmaster has a letter from CA DOJ stating that the integral magazine rifles and receivers are not assault weapons. Unless you have a similar letter, any receiver or rifle on the list is an assault weapon. If it's not registered as such then it is illegal for you to possess it no matter what configuration you have it in.
Well, that used to be the general consensus. Whats below is too risky IMO.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=45333

[Bolt2Bounce]

I've always thought that you could remove the things that made a rifle like the AR-15 /AK an Assault weapon. Like removing the pistol grips, folding stocks, flash suppressosr and it would no longer be a Assault weapon. Or is that only SB23 guns. removing from the state is OK. After all a stock Mini-14 is not a A.W. even with a 30rd magazine, it's kool as long as you had you Hicap mags prior to dec 31 1999. I'm sure we all did years before that anyway.... Or is the COLT AR-15 striped receiver an AW under R-roots??? If so only Colt is an AW because no other models are listed in the PC. When the original 89 ban went into effect the Colt- make and model was singled out, but there was Bushmaster Olympic Pacwest arms eagle arms and maybe a few others that were not AW's. The Colts were AW because they were listed and the other brands were not. So there were 2 bans in CA. 89 and SB23 in 99/2k plus the federal ban which went away..04
So if a guy had a PWA receiver or other non colt that he got after 89 but before SB23 and it was a striped receiver and was never built into a rifle could he build it to be SB23 compliant? Yes I think he could. I understand there are a lot of people who wish the DOj would just add the OLL to the AW ban list and give everyone 90 day to register them as AW because a lot of people were too young to get a preban rifle and still want one. As far as a letter from CA DOJ stating that the integral magazine rifles and receivers are not assault weapons goes if you read them they are not a get out of jail free card the FAB 10 letter clearly states that in DOJ's eyes they are not AW's but any DA can see it differently and they can file charges anytime they catch you with it. :eek: So how many striped OLL are floating around in counties that the DA's are not gun friendly in? How many are already built? How many are imported into the state? :confused: How many 80%ers are built thats another can'o worms. B2B

--When the German Kaiser asked in 1912 what the quarter of a million Swiss militiamen would do if invaded by a half million German soldiers, a Swiss replied: shoot twice and go home.