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View Full Version : An Ode to Change Agents, CGF, and Steve Jobs


oaklander
10-06-2011, 12:14 PM
I hate to be Gene's FB, since I know him personally, and I know that he puts on his pants one leg at a time (don't ask me how I know that - what happens in Murphys STAYS in Murphys). . .

BUT - here is a quote that describes Gene, Bill, Brandon, JD, and ALL of the CGF guys:

“Here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes… the ones who see things differently — they’re not fond of rules… You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify or vilify them, but the only thing you can’t do is ignore them because they change things… they push the human race forward, and while some may see them as the crazy ones, we see genius, because the ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world, are the ones who do.”

As we think about what Steve Jobs meant by that - let's also think about our own movement. What we are doing, what we have done - and what we WILL do moving forward.

My personal opinion is that we are answering the highest calling in life. We are increasing freedom and rights. It is a very patriotic and spiritual thing to do.

AND WE ARE ALL ONE!

Every person who has attended an event, or taught a new shooter, or written a letter, or stood up for his or her rights, well - you are all US.

There is no longer them and US. There is just US - and the civil rights movement in California is NOW ONE WINNING TEAM.

This is not hyperbole - I know this because me and YOU folks worked hard to make this happen.

Let us just take a moment, and kind of bless ourselves, and give thanks to all of us, and to people like the above, and you, and US.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 12:32 PM
LOL, Gene will appreciate this:

:gene:

zhyla
10-06-2011, 12:40 PM
My personal opinion is that we are answering the highest calling in life.

No offense... well ok, some offense intended: I think you need to get some perspective.

yellowfin
10-06-2011, 12:42 PM
It would have been nice to have had Jobs on our side. What did we do wrong to not have him with us? If he was a liberal, that's no excuse, we have some gun owning people from that side of the aisle who support us. If he was rich, famous, and/or a techie, so what, we've got those too. He was from Silicon Valley--well, duh, look at who's on this site. Seriously, we need to take a serious look at this and see what can be done in the future.

paul0660
10-06-2011, 12:42 PM
No offense... well ok, some offense intended: I think you need to get some perspective.

Starting by looking up hyperbole.

bwiese
10-06-2011, 12:53 PM
OK, yeah, some of us are misfits ;-)

bulgron
10-06-2011, 12:59 PM
It would have been nice to have had Jobs on our side. What did we do wrong to not have him with us? If he was a liberal, that's no excuse, we have some gun owning people from that side of the aisle who support us. If he was rich, famous, and/or a techie, so what, we've got those too. He was from Silicon Valley--well, duh, look at who's on this site. Seriously, we need to take a serious look at this and see what can be done in the future.

We didn't do anything wrong. Much as I like Apple's products, only a complete mindless fan-boy would refuse to admit that he was a royal *** to most of the people around him. He was arrogant, controlling, elitist, ruthless, condescending and domineering. He was also well-known to have been a true liberal, even as he played the capitalism game brilliantly.

If you can't see that I just described the kind of people who are really seeking to disarm us, you don't know our opposition as well as I think you do.

nicki
10-06-2011, 1:00 PM
I don't know his views on guns, I don't know his politics, but what I do now is his vision became our future.

Steve probably knew he was dying, but instead of dying, he embraced life and in doing so, he advanced all of mankind.

We have lost a great visionary and leader, but fortunately for us, new ones come along and there are probably already new Steve Jobs that are up and coming already.

Steve was a pioneer in an industry that took off before the government had a chance to regulate it to death and he showed us what could be done.

Nicki

bwiese
10-06-2011, 1:00 PM
He was arrogant, controlling, elitist, ruthless, condescending and domineering....

You say that like it's a bad thing ;-)

sandman21
10-06-2011, 1:01 PM
LOL, Gene will appreciate this:

:gene:

:twoweeks:

Window_Seat
10-06-2011, 1:01 PM
I was at a meeting a few months ago, where one of the speakers said something to the effect that:

...
"I DO NOT REACH OUT"
...

This is NOT how we win back certain rights that we lost.

Reaching out is the first thing we need to do. I believe that this is what Gene, Kestryl, and Co. did when CGN/F was brought to life.

I don't believe that we reached out to Mr. Jobs. It's a good lesson to think about.

Kevin and everyone involved reached out to the City of Oakland, but the fact that we're moving in the right direction everywhere is evidence of a good foundation of quality to the fact that this is what we as a group need to do if we want to get something done.

Some of us are even talking about running for certain office, like City Council. That would not only be a step in the right direction, but making a run for the finish line, taking the checkered flag, putting our names on it and bringing home the trophy.

Erik.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 3:33 PM
No offense... well ok, some offense intended: I think you need to get some perspective.

What is a higher calling than working - FOR FREE - to ensure that we ALL SHARE THE SAME RIGHTS?

Is posting lame pot shots at the actual workers a high calling?

Sitting behind a computer is a high calling?

The folks I am talking about (which include everyone in the thread, except for you) actually risk everything for this.

:D

ETA:

AH - I read some of your post history - you sound like a lawyer, LE, paralegal, or someone who reads a lot of law. That makes your little quip even more interesting. What specific problem do you have with us? Or is it me? You DO realize that the people that I cite in the OP are the very reason that you can actually HAVE OLL's don't you? Or that you can LTC in most counties now? Or that you can still buy ammo over the internet?

Your lack of perspective is instructive. Please explain where I am wrong. I like to learn things.

Ubermcoupe
10-06-2011, 3:51 PM
You say that like it's a bad thing ;-)

Only a bad thing if you are on the receiving end of said behavior.

Jobs is right though, "you can't ignore [us]" :)

FastFinger
10-06-2011, 3:57 PM
Steve probably knew he was dying, but instead of dying, he embraced life and in doing so, he advanced all of mankind.


I know I'm dying also. Also embrace life. Working on the advancing mankind part.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 3:59 PM
Only a bad thing if you are on the receiving end of said behavior.

Jobs is right though, "you can't ignore [us]" :)

ALL,

There have been a few cases where people complained about CGF members being too extreme, or rude, or some such thing. I do not even remember specifics. One of the events might have even been about ME (even though I am not technically part of CGF).

The takeaway from me talking to dozens of people, and getting their opinions was that it's the rude people who get stuff done.

It is what it is. . .

BUT - we are all actually really nice in person!!!! I encourage ALL of you to attend any event and meet us.

ALSO - you ARE US.

There is no litmus test, or application, or anything like that. If you want to be a civil rights activists - just BE ONE. We will support you and welcome you.

Ubermcoupe
10-06-2011, 4:02 PM
BUT - we are all actually really nice in person!!!! I encourage ALL of you to attend any event and meet us.


I second that! It's always better to put a face with a name (and handle) :)

zhyla
10-06-2011, 4:34 PM
What is a higher calling than working - FOR FREE - to ensure that we ALL SHARE THE SAME RIGHTS?


I should have included some explanation. I will enumerate what I feel are a couple "higher callings" than pushing for more constitutional firearms regulation (which is a civil right). Ending slavery and segregation in the U.S. (in the past). Getting food to starving people. Ending the cluster**** of drug cartel violence and instability in our southern neighbor. I'm as ill-informed as the average American, I'm sure there is a long list of serious problems with the world. I'm just pointing out a couple.

I'm not saying we're all called to fight the same fight, and I greatly appreciate the work that gun rights activists (I know, I know, "civil rights") are doing in this state. I'm just saying there are more important things than making sure that people in the wealthiest state in the most powerful nation in the world are less hindered in their firearm purchases and activities.

The folks I am talking about (which include everyone in the thread, except for you) actually risk everything for this.

Uh... I'm sure some people here have taken some risks being associated with the legal side of this activism and I don't mean to disparage this at all. And lots of us have made some amount of sacrifice (in my case, just a few small donations). But in general, I don't see any real risk unless you're intentionally becoming a court test case. What's the "risk everything" all about?

AH - I read some of your post history - you sound like a lawyer, LE, paralegal, or someone who reads a lot of law.

Nope! The only law I read is the P.C.'s referenced here. I'm just some guy. Apparently I sound like I know what I'm talking about :).

What specific problem do you have with us? Or is it me? You DO realize that the people that I cite in the OP are the very reason that you can actually HAVE OLL's don't you? Or that you can LTC in most counties now? Or that you can still buy ammo over the internet?

No problem... I'm a big fan of CGF as an organization and greatful for everything done. I just thought I would point out where I think this activism falls relative to really important issues, as I illustrated above.

When it comes down to it, I'd like to have Gene's babies as much as the average calgunner :).

Your lack of perspective is instructive. Please explain where I am wrong. I like to learn things.

Hopefully I've explained this well enough. It's ok to be working on something less important than curing cancer (why wasn't that in my list above? gold star if you can figure it out). You just shouldn't say it's more important than curing cancer.

wash
10-06-2011, 4:57 PM
Cancer is not the reliable killer it once was.

Look at my grandma, she had cancer, died of ~diareah.

F*** cancer.

Cartel violence in Mexico is something we could fix. Decriminalizing drugs would do it but it's not popular. Everyone knows that would work so why doesn't it happen? I choose not to join that fight.

Food for the hungry? I see that more as an over-population issue with no clear solution and churches interfering with birth control programs.

I like guns so I fight for civil rights. I'm not perfect by a long shot.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 7:45 PM
What I mean by high calling is the concept of doing volunteer work that benefits people that one does not know.

That being said, we need self defense rights to be able to freely enjoy the great things that our country has to offer us. Again, IMHO self defense is the right that MAKES all the other ones even possible.

Sorry for being a dick. That happens sometimes. It is an undocumented feature, as some would say. Me and Gene also got some really cool news today on some outreach stuff, so I am kind of too happy today!

;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

zhyla
10-06-2011, 8:05 PM
No worries Oak, we can all agree our volunteer work in this area is important. And nothing at all wrong with pitching in on the things you care about. Just makes us look wacky when we start claiming we're on a mission from God or whatever :).

And the answer to my cancer riddle is that in some places you don't live long enough to get cancer.

hoffmang
10-06-2011, 9:05 PM
I should have included some explanation. I will enumerate what I feel are a couple "higher callings" than pushing for more constitutional firearms regulation (which is a civil right)...

In one way you are absolutely correct - in another, maybe not as much as you think.

Gun rights qua gun rights: it is important but there are some things that we should have respect for above that and people like the Deacons for Defense fall exactly there. The privations those of us who live in California experience around guns are tame in comparison to what caused those men and many like them to pick up arms.

Gun rights as a way to save us from a future civil war by defending the bill of rights is a different matter. Should we be successful at re-securing the people's right to keep and bear arms, we will have re-erected the best insurance policy thought up so far in human history against tyranny. To lose on the smaller issues is to open the same attacks on the First and the Fifth as succeed against the Second.

To truly succeed is to make sure the impossible remains impossible. To have won is for nothing to happen. The Sword of Damocles is most valuable in its suspension - not its falling.

-Gene

oaklander
10-06-2011, 9:23 PM
No worries Oak, we can all agree our volunteer work in this area is important. And nothing at all wrong with pitching in on the things you care about. Just makes us look wacky when we start claiming we're on a mission from God or whatever :).

And the answer to my cancer riddle is that in some places you don't live long enough to get cancer.

Dang. I look good when I dress up like a Blues Brother!

Seriously, when I attend my church, I kind of "see" with my OWN EYES how bad gun policy has ruined Oakland by literally killing people. We were just named AGAIN the most dangerous city in the state. We also have EXTREME gun control here (thanks Ronald Reagon).

I will not back down on this, and even my atheist friends who get drunk with me agree that there IS a moral problem with a LOT OF gun control.

You can't minimize how important what we are doing - is. It is very MUCH a moral fight. Me personally, however - I am on a mission to have fun, that is about it. All I want to do is have fun, and be a good worker for folks.

So far, so good!

ALSO - you GOTTA COME to our next event! If you are in NorCal or SoCal - we will be doing events in both. . .

Wait, what was this post about? I think it was my short attention span or something. But yes, we are on same page, even though we might not agree - we are on same team!

;-)


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 9:28 PM
Dang. I look good when I dress up like a Blues Brother!

Seriously, when I attend my church, I kind of "see" with my OWN EYES how bad gun policy has ruined Oakland by literally killing people. We were just named AGAIN the most dangerous city in the state. We also have EXTREME gun control here (thanks Ronald Reagon).

I will not back down on this, and even my atheist friends who get drunk with me agree that there IS a moral problem with a LOT OF gun control.

You can't minimize how important what we are doing - is. It is very MUCH a moral fight. Me personally, however - I am on a mission to have fun, that is about it. All I want to do is have fun, and be a good worker for folks.

So far, so good!

ALSO - you GOTTA COME to our next event! If you are in NorCal or SoCal - we will be doing events in both. . .

Wait, what was this post about? I think it was my short attention span or something. But yes, we are on same page, even though we might not agree - we are on same team!

;-)


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

ETA: part of the reason I made this post is because sometimes things happen that people do not see. The changes that people read about on the forum are only like about 1 percent of what is happening. There are literally so many good things happening with gun stuff that it is hard to keep up. A lot of it is never posted (like something that happened today, and that Gene was pleased about). For every bad story, there are a thousand good ones. A lot of that is due to people like YOU, who spread the positive word. In a way, this is EXACTLY like any new culture - and what you and I and hundreds of thousands of gun owners are doing right now is kind of reseeding a fallow field. And you and I and all of us are doing a perfect job!


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

taperxz
10-06-2011, 10:31 PM
Cancer is not the reliable killer it once was.

Look at my grandma, she had cancer, died of ~diareah.

F*** cancer.

Cartel violence in Mexico is something we could fix. Decriminalizing drugs would do it but it's not popular. Everyone knows that would work so why doesn't it happen? I choose not to join that fight.

Food for the hungry? I see that more as an over-population issue with no clear solution and churches interfering with birth control programs.

I like guns so I fight for civil rights. I'm not perfect by a long shot.

Cancer us not a reliable killer??? LMAO tell that to Steve Jobs!

Cartel violence is a Mexican problem. Decriminalizing drugs won't do crap! its like saying making guns available to all will stop criminals from using them! They don't follow the law or care.

World Hunger? There is plenty of food to feed the whole world! Its just not politically needed. America doesn't feed Africa because we get nothing back from Africa.

Please don't be disillusioned.

a1c
10-06-2011, 10:50 PM
I'm not sure where this thread is going, but it certainly is cathartic for some of us, obviously.

Steve Jobs was my CEO for five years. Say what you want about the man. He was an inspiration. You couldn't trust what he would say, but you could trust his vision. The man showed you could be a rebel, a pirate, and yet be successful. You can bend the rules if you're savvy enough. I watch the work CGF does from the sidelines, and they seem to follow those same rules. You change things from the inside.

Steve Jobs was a liberal. Steve probably didn't care much for firearms. Tech was his thing. He probably saw guns as more evil than good, because he was never exposed to the gun culture, like a lot of SF Bay Area liberals, who only hear about guns when news break about a madman going postal.

Cancer sucks. Trust me, I know. It comes in so many forms. I get annoyed by all the fixation about breast cancer, when so many people die of other forms - melanoma is the #1 killer for people under 30, for instance.

World hunger? Sucks too. It could be easily solved, but protectionism and obsolete foreign policy gets in the way.

That's it for me. Good night folks.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 11:57 PM
I'm not sure where this thread is going, but it certainly is cathartic for some of us, obviously.

Steve Jobs was my CEO for five years. Say what you want about the man. He was an inspiration. You couldn't trust what he would say, but you could trust his vision. The man showed you could be a rebel, a pirate, and yet be successful. You can bend the rules if you're savvy enough. I watch the work CGF does from the sidelines, and they seem to follow those same rules. You change things from the inside.

Steve Jobs was a liberal. Steve probably didn't care much for firearms. Tech was his thing. He probably saw guns as more evil than good, because he was never exposed to the gun culture, like a lot of SF Bay Area liberals, who only hear about guns when news break about a madman going postal.

Cancer sucks. Trust me, I know. It comes in so many forms. I get annoyed by all the fixation about breast cancer, when so many people die of other forms - melanoma is the #1 killer for people under 30, for instance.

World hunger? Sucks too. It could be easily solved, but protectionism and obsolete foreign policy gets in the way.

That's it for me. Good night folks.

Yes, both of my recent threads are giving some of us things to think about. The fact that we ARE now true civil rights has me rethinking where our opposition might come from. It also reminds me that we may have new and unexpected friends.

Today, I had VERY positive interactions with (a) a Director at a well-known institute of higher learning, and (b), the leader of a certain chapter of a well known civil rights group. Do you all SEE what this means?

It means that we are starting to not have opposition. None of this would have happened 3 years ago. We wpuld have been laughed out of the room. This is major positive CHANGE. And it is cool and exciting.

My point is that people like Steve Jobs drive this. And like some of the folks here (not me so much, since I do not really "do" anything, except talk to people).

This is NOT hyperbole - but we, as a team - thousands of us here on this forum - and other places are changing things for the better. We have accomplished some amazing things.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

Mulay El Raisuli
10-07-2011, 7:16 AM
Cancer us not a reliable killer??? LMAO tell that to Steve Jobs!

Cartel violence is a Mexican problem. Decriminalizing drugs won't do crap! its like saying making guns available to all will stop criminals from using them! They don't follow the law or care.

World Hunger? There is plenty of food to feed the whole world! Its just not politically needed. America doesn't feed Africa because we get nothing back from Africa.

Please don't be disillusioned.


I must disagree. The violence in Mexico is funded by US dollars. Stop the flow of US dollars to the cartels (and legalization would do that) & the violence disappears. Not completely because there's always going to be some crime, but the perfectly HUGE amounts of it that Mexico suffers from JUST BECAUSE drugs are illegal would cease.

The same applies to your comment about criminals. Yes, making guns available to all WOULD stop criminals from using them. Not all criminals, because again, there's always going to be some crime, but since criminals don't like attacking people who can shoot back, so great numbers of them will indeed find other ways to make a buck. This is why we're working on increasing the numbers of people who can have/carry guns. Right?

Agree that there is more than enough food for all on the planet. The politics involved kill far more people than lack of food does. "Food as a weapon" is the case in Somalia (which proves that its not just US politics that is the problem). Has been for 20 years, is still the case now.


The Raisuli

oaklander
10-08-2011, 7:27 PM
I must disagree. The violence in Mexico is funded by US dollars. Stop the flow of US dollars to the cartels (and legalization would do that) & the violence disappears. Not completely because there's always going to be some crime, but the perfectly HUGE amounts of it that Mexico suffers from JUST BECAUSE drugs are illegal would cease.

The same applies to your comment about criminals. Yes, making guns available to all WOULD stop criminals from using them. Not all criminals, because again, there's always going to be some crime, but since criminals don't like attacking people who can shoot back, so great numbers of them will indeed find other ways to make a buck. This is why we're working on increasing the numbers of people who can have/carry guns. Right?

Agree that there is more than enough food for all on the planet. The politics involved kill far more people than lack of food does. "Food as a weapon" is the case in Somalia (which proves that its not just US politics that is the problem). Has been for 20 years, is still the case now.


The Raisuli

I agree - the more I read taper's stuff - the more I realize that he does not support the concept of civil rights.

I always knew we would have opposition from within our own ranks. Interestingly, it comes from the socioeconomic "edges" (low OR high). Civil rights is very mainstream these days - and opposition is, by definition, from the fringes.


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taperxz
10-08-2011, 7:51 PM
I agree - the more I read taper's stuff - the more I realize that he does not support the concept of civil rights.

I always knew we would have opposition from within our own ranks. Interestingly, it comes from the socioeconomic "edges" (low OR high). Civil rights is very mainstream these days - and opposition is, by definition, from the fringes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Excuse me? How do you comment on me in this thread? I said nothing in reference to you here. You are a little out ther in regards to your opinions FWIW. Please do not use me in any context in which you have no idea. I have given you that same courtesy. My opinion is mine. I have a right to it. Maybe I just don't agree with YOUR point of view!

taperxz
10-08-2011, 7:56 PM
I should also note that while your endeavors are indeed admirable, you are not Martin Luther King.

Just because you think something doesn't mean YOU are right! Sometimes ideas are good and sometimes bad. You don't get the BIG WIN every time.

SENT from my ..... Whatever. Time to go shampoo my hair or something sheesh

yellowfin
10-08-2011, 7:59 PM
The Sword of Damocles is most valuable in its suspension - not its falling.True, however only to a point. It has to fall often enough for its suspension to be regarded as sufficiently precarious, else those under it lose their fear thereof. "Spare the rod and spoil the child", as the saying goes.

oaklander
10-08-2011, 8:20 PM
I should also note that while your endeavors are indeed admirable, you are not Martin Luther King.

Just because you think something doesn't mean YOU are right! Sometimes ideas are good and sometimes bad. You don't get the BIG WIN every time.

SENT from my ..... Whatever. Time to go shampoo my hair or something sheesh

PERSONALLY, I just like to have fun and do positive things. There is no win or lose in anything here.

Are you saying that doing (or trying) good things is bad? Or are you saying that I am not capable of good things? Your posts are strangely passive-agressive. You do approach life from a position of wanting to do good things, I assume? That seems to be kind of why we are here, is it not?

Educate me on how what we are doing is bad. I am curious how you think.

Please also explain to me how Oakland is not relevant.

On the MLK thing, you are correct. My initials are KLT. Maybe KXT. You don't even understand what is happening, and you do not understand why I want to hear more of YOUR OPINIONS.

PLEASE EDUCATE ME.

;-)

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oaklander
10-08-2011, 8:24 PM
Excuse me? How do you comment on me in this thread? I said nothing in reference to you here. You are a little out ther in regards to your opinions FWIW. Please do not use me in any context in which you have no idea. I have given you that same courtesy. My opinion is mine. I have a right to it. Maybe I just don't agree with YOUR point of view!

I like seeing how you think. And which of my opinions are out there? You DO know that I do not generally actually have opinions. I have work, BBQ's, church, etc. But I do not generally hold opinions. I just kind of throw parties, and play with my magnifying glass.

;-)


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taperxz
10-08-2011, 8:26 PM
I never said anything was bad! In the other thread I just felt that the problems in Oak Town were not all 2A related.

In my opinion you attacked my position because you simply didn't like it. Don't you feel differing opinions actually helps our fight for 2A rights?

OR is it your way or the highway?

oaklander
10-08-2011, 8:32 PM
I never said anything was bad! In the other thread I just felt that the problems in Oak Town were not all 2A related.

In my opinion you attacked my position because you simply didn't like it. Don't you feel differing opinions actually helps our fight for 2A rights?

OR is it your way or the highway?

Please explain to me, in clear English, how the 2A does NOT relate to the place where modern gun control started.

I know you say it is not related. So please explain why for us.

;-)

Again - please explain to me why we should not try to help this town get clarity on guns? Seems to me that even a small reduction in violent crime in Oakland would send a message that gun folks are good people.

How is this a bad thing?

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taperxz
10-08-2011, 8:39 PM
Please explain to me, in clear English, how the 2A does NOT relate to the place where modern gun control started.

I know you say it is not related. So please explain why for us.

;-)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are just using that as an excuse. I link modern gun contro to the 14th and prohibition. You yourself sai you were doing this to keep your wife safe. (vert admirable). Yet, not in focus with the 2a rights with the state as a whole IMHO. For the sake of the thread and calguns you can PM me on FB for future opinions. I'm not hear to p/o anyone or derail the thread.

oaklander
10-08-2011, 8:48 PM
You are just using that as an excuse. I link modern gun contro to the 14th and prohibition. You yourself sai you were doing this to keep your wife safe. (vert admirable). Yet, not in focus with the 2a rights with the state as a whole IMHO. For the sake of the thread and calguns you can PM me on FB for future opinions. I'm not hear to p/o anyone or derail the thread.

You have not heard of Mulford? It was kind of a big deal.

So you are saying that Oakland has NO RELATION to gun stuff? Please explain.

I am also interested in your views on how the 14th Amendment and Prohibition have resulted in gun control. Please explain to me. I only got a "c" in ConLaw. So maybe you can help me learn more about the root causes of gun control?


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taperxz
10-08-2011, 8:57 PM
Are you serious? You can spin it any way you want. Even if I agreed on what you are saying, it's still not relevant to your mission in Oakland, modern day.

I am very surprised that YOU are trying to debate or are even concerned what "little ole me" thinks.

Who the heck am I? I am just one person with one opinion. I think you are giving me to much credit in your attempt to discredit me.

On the other hand I do win many debates with my childhood buddy who also graduated from Hastings. No big deal though.

hoffmang
10-08-2011, 8:58 PM
True, however only to a point. It has to fall often enough for its suspension to be regarded as sufficiently precarious, else those under it lose their fear thereof. "Spare the rod and spoil the child", as the saying goes.

Then you've clearly missed my point. If the sword falls it is too late.

Your opinion reminds me of a classic WWII story. A major stands in front of his troops before D-day and says to them that he expects 50% of them to die. A troop looks to his left, and then to his right and says to himself, "sucks to be you two."

The falling of the sword means you will either lose your life or some of your loved ones. Make no mistakes about the seriousness of what I'm talking about.

-Gene

taperxz
10-08-2011, 9:04 PM
Hey Oak, one of the lawyers at the Elks I know wrote a book on intellectual property. PM me for his name. Good guy and knows his stuff. He is also a Davis guy.

oaklander
10-08-2011, 10:41 PM
Hey Oak, one of the lawyers at the Elks I know wrote a book on intellectual property. PM me for his name. Good guy and knows his stuff. He is also a Davis guy.

I'm Hastings, but I will PM you.

Just trying to figure things out about your thinking.


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taperxz
10-08-2011, 11:07 PM
I'm Hastings, but I will PM you.

Just trying to figure things out about your thinking.


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Why is MY thinking so important? I'm not a gun rights expert. Just an enthusiast. With an all American type opinion, which means opinions are like azz@%#~<s. Everyone has one and.......

I just don't know why my opinion brings the curiosity it does?

Should I be flattered or outraged? LOL

oaklander
10-09-2011, 12:01 AM
Tape,

I read all your messages, and I think you are sincere. Please realize that things happen in our civil rights movement for complex reasons. I applaud the work that you have done in furtherance of our goals.