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BMartin1776
10-06-2011, 11:10 AM
I have been onto whats going on for a while (before I knew who Beck was) but after seeing Robert Kiyosaki on Beck yesterday and following the news as I have done for quite some time Im thinking its time to look into getting some armor.

I have no idea where to start who to stay away from etc. Thinking plate carrier vs a bp vest. What say you?

a1c
10-06-2011, 11:32 AM
Hmm what?

What was his show about that made you decide to get armor? What for?

WDE91
10-06-2011, 12:05 PM
I guess if you have the money you can spend it how you see fit
quality armor=heavy cash

BMartin1776
10-06-2011, 12:21 PM
Hmm what?

What was his show about that made you decide to get armor? What for?
Kiyosaki said what many know collapse is coming and more than likely sooner than later. Cpl that with everything else going on economic situation is deteriorating (ppl shrug it off but what is happening is global and has NEVER happened in world history) hatred towards religion, indoctrination of youth by progressives, wall st uprisings are getting violent and copy cat protests are popping up everywhere all of which want to copy middle east uprisings (all of which have gunfire bloodshed and death in them!), Emperor Obama with countless scandals under his belt (F&F was clear move to go after the 2nd) I could go on and on. You just feel it in your gut something is brewing.

a1c
10-06-2011, 1:24 PM
Kiyosaki said what many know collapse is coming and more than likely sooner than later. Cpl that with everything else going on economic situation is deteriorating (ppl shrug it off but what is happening is global and has NEVER happened in world history) hatred towards religion, indoctrination of youth by progressives, wall st uprisings are getting violent and copy cat protests are popping up everywhere all of which want to copy middle east uprisings (all of which have gunfire bloodshed and death in them!), Emperor Obama with countless scandals under his belt (F&F was clear move to go after the 2nd) I could go on and on. You just feel it in your gut something is brewing.

Meh. His usual stuff. I'll bet you an American Eagle silver coin none of that is coming.

People forget their history. This country has been through far bigger crises, and none of those consequences happened. Your list is just a random, selective list with a nice spin on them.

There HAS been global economic meltdowns before - you would find a nice list going back to the late 18th century. Hatred towards religion? How is that new? Indoctrination of youth? You blame "progressives", but both sides are guilty of it. Maybe more conservatives should get into teaching. Wall Street uprisings? Meh. Just the expression of a disgruntled part of the population. The lower and middle classes are feeling ignored by the elite, so the right has the Tea Party, and the left has the anti-corporation, anti-globalization activists. Obama's scandals? Name one president in the past five decades who didn't have to deal with such huge scandals or failures.

I suppose this thread belongs in OT anyway. Is there a SHTF sub-forum yet?

Deadbolt
10-06-2011, 4:21 PM
Meh. His usual stuff. I'll bet you an American Eagle silver coin none of that is coming.

People forget their history. This country has been through far bigger crises, and none of those consequences happened. Your list is just a random, selective list with a nice spin on them.

There HAS been global economic meltdowns before - you would find a nice list going back to the late 18th century. Hatred towards religion? How is that new? Indoctrination of youth? You blame "progressives", but both sides are guilty of it. Maybe more conservatives should get into teaching. Wall Street uprisings? Meh. Just the expression of a disgruntled part of the population. The lower and middle classes are feeling ignored by the elite, so the right has the Tea Party, and the left has the anti-corporation, anti-globalization activists. Obama's scandals? Name one president in the past five decades who didn't have to deal with such huge scandals or failures.

I suppose this thread belongs in OT anyway. Is there a SHTF sub-forum yet?

i agree with this - but dont let that stop you, OP, from getting Armor. Its still america - spend your money how you choose :)

That being said - if you got the money - F armor, property is as cheap as its been in about as long as ive been alive right now. Hot damn !

Oceanbob
10-06-2011, 4:28 PM
Kiyosaki said what many know collapse is coming and more than likely sooner than later. Cpl that with everything else going on economic situation is deteriorating (ppl shrug it off but what is happening is global and has NEVER happened in world history) hatred towards religion, indoctrination of youth by progressives, wall st uprisings are getting violent and copy cat protests are popping up everywhere all of which want to copy middle east uprisings (all of which have gunfire bloodshed and death in them!), Emperor Obama with countless scandals under his belt (F&F was clear move to go after the 2nd) I could go on and on. You just feel it in your gut something is brewing.

Glen Beck is an idiot. Pure and simple. :cool2:

Guess you missed the 60s..?...same story.

(Oh and Glen Beck is a Mormon..so take his opinion on 'hatred of religion' with a grain of salt)

repubconserv
10-06-2011, 4:38 PM
Meh. His usual stuff. I'll bet you an American Eagle silver coin none of that is coming.

People forget their history. This country has been through far bigger crises, and none of those consequences happened. Your list is just a random, selective list with a nice spin on them.And you forget current history. riots, mobs, and anarchist types of behavior are becoming more prevalent throughout the world. Nothing is certain. Also, please tell me the last time America was sailing in the same direction as Wiemar.... with a growing inclination to rioting and general idiocy... and we have been this close to the edge

There HAS been global economic meltdowns before - you would find a nice list going back to the late 18th century. Hatred towards religion? How is that new? And with a growing number of muslims in this country, you don't think that there will be high tensions between different religious groups? Indoctrination of youth? You blame "progressives", but both sides are guilty of it. Maybe more conservatives should get into teaching. Wall Street uprisings? Meh. Just the expression of a disgruntled part of the population. The lower and middle classes are feeling ignored by the elite, so the right has the Tea Party, and the left has the anti-corporation, anti-globalization activists. Obama's scandals? Name one president in the past five decades who didn't have to deal with such huge scandals or failures. yeah... things seem to be going to hell all around, and you still deny that things could go to SHTF. Dont get me wrong, I have my doubts about any SHTF situation on this scale, but I don't deny it will ever happen.

I suppose this thread belongs in OT anyway. Is there a SHTF sub-forum yet? No... but there should be... I would be :King: of the :TFH:

OP, what level of armor do you want? are you looking for maximum protection, maximum mobility, or a combination?

What calibers are you most worried about?

Whats your budget? as someone already said, big armor usually equals big money

repubconserv
10-06-2011, 4:40 PM
Glen Beck is an idiot. Pure and simple. :cool2:


great argument.

a1c
10-06-2011, 4:45 PM
great argument.

He's not an idiot. Just an ill-educated opportunist.

elSquid
10-06-2011, 4:46 PM
Glen Beck is an idiot. Pure and simple. :cool2:


Kiyosaki is a very questionable person to listen to...

http://www.johntreed.com/Kiyosaki.html

Reed has a web page that critically discusses real estate investment gurus.

http://www.johntreed.com/Reedgururating.html

Kiyosaki is very visible and had made a lot of claims, so he gets a page devoted to him.

As always, YMMV, etc.

-- Michael

stix213
10-06-2011, 4:49 PM
Meh. His usual stuff. I'll bet you an American Eagle silver coin none of that is coming.

People forget their history. This country has been through far bigger crises, and none of those consequences happened. Your list is just a random, selective list with a nice spin on them.

There HAS been global economic meltdowns before - you would find a nice list going back to the late 18th century. Hatred towards religion? How is that new? Indoctrination of youth? You blame "progressives", but both sides are guilty of it. Maybe more conservatives should get into teaching. Wall Street uprisings? Meh. Just the expression of a disgruntled part of the population. The lower and middle classes are feeling ignored by the elite, so the right has the Tea Party, and the left has the anti-corporation, anti-globalization activists. Obama's scandals? Name one president in the past five decades who didn't have to deal with such huge scandals or failures.

I suppose this thread belongs in OT anyway. Is there a SHTF sub-forum yet?

Last time there was a global economic meltdown was the Great Depression, and what came out of that was something called freaking World War II. Even if this is nothing new, its also nothing to brush off as trivial.

War, greed, famine, and death are nothing new either. Something doesn't have to be "new" to destroy your life.

stix213
10-06-2011, 4:56 PM
Glen Beck is an idiot. Pure and simple. :cool2:


Glenn Beck isn't someone I pay much attention to, but it wasn't that long ago when he started telling people of a coming economic collapse and to buy gold at the expensive price of $700 per ounce. He said yes its very expensive, but its likely to increase in price rather than drop.

Yeah he seems pretty dumb. If only I was that dumb at the time to listen to him :facepalm:

Here is a philosophical question.... is an idiot still an idiot when they turn out to be 100% correct?

a1c
10-06-2011, 5:04 PM
Glenn Beck isn't someone I pay much attention to, but it wasn't that long ago when he started telling people of a coming economic collapse and to buy gold at the expensive price of $700 per ounce. He said yes its very expensive, but its likely to increase in price rather than drop.

Yeah he seems pretty dumb. If only I was that dumb at the time to listen to him :facepalm:

Here is a philosophical question.... is an idiot still an idiot when they turn out to be 100% correct?

Even broken clocks are right twice a day. Beck has/had an advertising deal with a gold broker. So his advice might be a tad biased here. He's also been spotted wearing armor before, and I wouldn't be surprised if word came out he had an ad or sponsor deal with an armor company.

The guy is very savvy. He's not an idealist, just a very opportunistic type who knows how to push the right buttons. A lot of people are extremely disgruntled, paranoid and fearful of the future right now. This guy knows exactly how to bank on it. And I'm pretty sure he still keeps most of his money in the bank, and not in gold and silver in a home safe.

INJUNTOM
10-06-2011, 5:36 PM
Kiyosaki said what many know collapse is coming and more than likely sooner than later. Cpl that with everything else going on economic situation is deteriorating (ppl shrug it off but what is happening is global and has NEVER happened in world history) hatred towards religion, indoctrination of youth by progressives, wall st uprisings are getting violent and copy cat protests are popping up everywhere all of which want to copy middle east uprisings (all of which have gunfire bloodshed and death in them!), Emperor Obama with countless scandals under his belt (F&F was clear move to go after the 2nd) I could go on and on. You just feel it in your gut something is brewing.

Although I don't follow him, Beck has proven to be right time after time. I know nothing of this guest, but I too believe that something will happen in this country, and some of the things I predict will be along the lines of civil war, race war, mass protesting to the point of rogue packs of thugs taking what they want. Also not too far fetched to think of foreign invasion or natural disasters leading to things like this as well.

....and let us not forget that the cartels are making their way this direction, and the government seems unwilling to do anything about it. Just think: rogue terrorists are operating around the world and we go after them with our military, and use drone missile strikes at the leaders....what makes these cartels any different?

I'm prepared to do a cowboy style unload at the end, and most certainly will save the last couple rounds for myself. :D

INJUNTOM
10-06-2011, 5:38 PM
Glen Beck is an idiot. Pure and simple. :cool2:



I think there's some EX Obama cabinet members that wish Beck wasn't taken seriously...

a1c
10-06-2011, 5:51 PM
This thread should be moved to OT.

repubconserv
10-06-2011, 5:53 PM
This thread should be moved to OT.

yep... I think we got a little off original topic too..

dieselpower
10-06-2011, 6:14 PM
because buying armor causes the guy who's shooting at you to miss.

Instead of armor I suggest researching survival topics. View PatriotNurse (http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePatriotNurse) youtubes, read Survival Blog (http://survivalblog.com/) and start buying books that you can use as reference when you need knowledge.

Learn to skin rabbits, go hunt a rabbit with a .22lr or snare and eat it. Go buy a rabbit at the store and eat it. learn to survive without society and you will be way ahead of the crowd.

Stoic Bacchanal
10-06-2011, 6:26 PM
Last time there was a global economic meltdown was the Great Depression, and what came out of that was something called freaking World War II.

I don't remember the US descending into an anarchist state devoid of law or government. I don't recall it descending into a fascist state at the time either.

Glenn Beck is right some of the time- its simply probability- he makes dozens of predictions and parts of some of them come true. He has been talking about the total collapse of the US and it turning into a Islamo-fascist state for about 4 years now...when we start applying Sharia law then I'll be concerned.

a1c
10-06-2011, 6:29 PM
because buying armor causes the guy who's shooting at you to miss.

Instead of armor I suggest researching survival topics. View PatriotNurse (http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePatriotNurse) youtubes, read Survival Blog (http://survivalblog.com/) and start buying books that you can use as reference when you need knowledge.

Learn to skin rabbits, go hunt a rabbit with a .22lr or snare and eat it. Go buy a rabbit at the store and eat it. learn to survive without society and you will be way ahead of the crowd.

Exactly. And +1 to those who suggest buying land. If SHTF, urban and suburban areas will be where things are worse. Rural areas (low-lying deserts possibly excepted) will be the places where life is most self-sustainable.

Armor is nothing but a gimmick for these situations. It's a nice-to-have thing, but really, before he goes there, the OP should make sure that:
- He has go-bags in each of his vehicles.
- He has more ready-to-bug-out goodies in his garage or near the front door.
- He has a plan to rendez-vous with his family at a key location, and two alternates.
- He learns self-reliance skills as described above - how to harvest food, how to cure/store it, how to cook it.

Until then, getting armor reminds me of all those people posting in here asking for what kind of gun they should get for HD when they don't even have good locks and a strong door and/or an alarm system.

A lot of people fantasize about SHTF scenario, like they're going to reinvent their lives. But in those scenarios, what matters is the banal, the mundane, the practical: shelter, water, food.

stix213
10-06-2011, 6:43 PM
I don't remember the US descending into an anarchist state devoid of law or government. I don't recall it descending into a fascist state at the time either.


No, that was only all of europe, east asia, and virtually all of the pacific and north atlantic oceans that time. Since we were completely free of all risk during WWII, we shouldn't be worried at all about what could happen during a future conflict :facepalm:


Glenn Beck is right some of the time- its simply probability- he makes dozens of predictions and parts of some of them come true. He has been talking about the total collapse of the US and it turning into a Islamo-fascist state for about 4 years now...when we start applying Sharia law then I'll be concerned.

Predicted universal healthcare preceding a credit downgrade, well before Tim Geithner was saying there was absolutely no risk of that. Just lucky I guess....

And you get Hillary Clinton in office and she gives you universal healthcare, my theory is it will only last about four years because there’s just no way that it could we could afford it. We will be downgraded as for our credit rating

Biff...
10-06-2011, 6:51 PM
I think there's some EX Obama cabinet members that wish Beck wasn't taken seriously...

You mean EX green jobs czar Van Jones :43:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2h3cwt2.jpg

Stoic Bacchanal
10-06-2011, 6:53 PM
No, that was only all of europe, east asia, and virtually all of the pacific and north atlantic oceans that time. Since we were completely free of all risk during WWII, we shouldn't be worried at all about what could happen during a future conflict :facepalm:

So the fact that fascism (a political and economic system) was created before means it will be created again? How? Can you point to some reference that states that the EEA or the EU will dissolve into totalitarian fascists states bent on military domination?

Is there a broken dissolute militaristic government in China? Sure they are communist but the ordinary people's standard of living is getting better over there and really to the people in the street that is what they care about. Don't get me wrong, I think China's economy will collapse upon itself in about 10 years or so but that will be due to economic and environmental conditions within its own borders, not the condition of the French economy.

Yeah..bold prediction from Beck, considering that when Hillary was "in office" she tried to slam through a single payer system. The idea that she would try to do it again is not groundbreaking.

You can be worried all you like but that will have no impact on whatever is in the future, whether it be good or bad.

rspar
10-06-2011, 6:55 PM
Sharia Law has shown up in U.S.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/100725

"Said the judge, "This court does not feel that, under the circumstances, that this defendant had a criminal desire to or intent to sexually assault or to sexually contact the plaintiff when he did. The court believes that he was operating under his belief that it is, as the husband, his desire to have sex when and whether he wanted to, was something that was consistent with his practices and it was something that was not prohibited."""

Not that it's time to break out the berkas or anything. And no I seldom listen to Beck for more than a minute or two, little too out there for me.

a1c
10-06-2011, 7:36 PM
Sharia Law has shown up in U.S.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/100725

"Said the judge, "This court does not feel that, under the circumstances, that this defendant had a criminal desire to or intent to sexually assault or to sexually contact the plaintiff when he did. The court believes that he was operating under his belief that it is, as the husband, his desire to have sex when and whether he wanted to, was something that was consistent with his practices and it was something that was not prohibited."""

Not that it's time to break out the berkas or anything. And no I seldom listen to Beck for more than a minute or two, little too out there for me.

Not this again. :facepalm:

This is over one year old. The decision was - predictably - overturned.

And spare me that editorial slant. Note how the author conveniently makes a blanket statement about Islam - not even supporting it with a Qu'ran verse -, and just as conveniently spares us the more un-PC, downright sexist parts of the Old Testament. Those are centuries, milenia-old texts with historical and cultural context, exploited by wackos to fulfill their political, power-hungry agendas.

Bottomline: Islam is not the enemy. Neither is Christianity. Nor religion in general. Fanatics are.

Stoic Bacchanal
10-06-2011, 7:37 PM
Sharia Law has shown up in U.S.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/100725

"Said the judge, "This court does not feel that, under the circumstances, that this defendant had a criminal desire to or intent to sexually assault or to sexually contact the plaintiff when he did. The court believes that he was operating under his belief that it is, as the husband, his desire to have sex when and whether he wanted to, was something that was consistent with his practices and it was something that was not prohibited."""

Not that it's time to break out the berkas or anything. And no I seldom listen to Beck for more than a minute or two, little too out there for me.


I think that is more of a freedom of religion opinion rather than a "type of law" opinion, but I see your point.

And yes, a little Beck goes a long way.

Boltz
10-06-2011, 11:14 PM
Not this again. :facepalm:

This is over one year old. The decision was - predictably - overturned.

And spare me that editorial slant. Note how the author conveniently makes a blanket statement about Islam - not even supporting it with a Qu'ran verse -, and just as conveniently spares us the more un-PC, downright sexist parts of the Old Testament. Those are centuries, milenia-old texts with historical and cultural context, exploited by wackos to fulfill their political, power-hungry agendas.

Bottomline: Islam is not the enemy. Neither is Christianity. Nor religion in general. Fanatics are.

+1

And I also agree with the sentiment of having basic survival stuff over body armor. Or just buy some more ammo to practice with.

GW
10-06-2011, 11:46 PM
and most certainly will save the last couple rounds for myself.
You must be a lousy shot:smilielol5:

Yugo
10-07-2011, 12:06 AM
I like this thread :popcorn:

Maddog5150
10-07-2011, 1:08 AM
I would shoot the hostage...

santamonica9
10-07-2011, 2:52 AM
I like this thread :popcorn:

:iagree: popcorn time it is



beck vs armor vs SHTF......

tvfreakarms
10-07-2011, 3:08 AM
Why take him seriously. He gets paid the big dollars to talk crazy and get inro ur head. Like a shock jock but for tv.
So anyways how much is a armour cost something like the military has.

dieselpower
10-07-2011, 6:23 AM
Why take him seriously. He gets paid the big dollars to talk crazy and get inro ur head. Like a shock jock but for tv.
So anyways how much is a armour cost something like the military has.

depends what you are trying to stop...

the Military has cheap plates for small arms. they take one or two hits and they are done. Once again what the military has is crap and as a civilian unless you have access to the militart supply system you should AVOID military gear.

search around for this Dragon Skin (http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/dragon-skin/) if you must have armour. Be prepared to take a loan out and make payments but at least you have the proper gear.

anthonyca
10-07-2011, 7:08 AM
I don't remember the US descending into an anarchist state devoid of law or government. I don't recall it descending into a fascist state at the time either.

Glenn Beck is right some of the time- its simply probability- he makes dozens of predictions and parts of some of them come true. He has been talking about the total collapse of the US and it turning into a Islamo-fascist state for about 4 years now...when we start applying Sharia law then I'll be concerned.

America was filled with Americans who loved this country. We have been invaded by people who just want to take, people who hate us, and people who are just in it for them.

The crazy thing is we subsidized many of these people to come here.

INJUNTOM
10-07-2011, 8:33 AM
You mean EX green jobs czar Van Jones :43:

http://i51.tinypic.com/2h3cwt2.jpg
I believe there were several that stepped down due to his work.

voiceofreason
10-07-2011, 8:46 AM
For armor, decide whether you'd want rifle protection or not.

If you're primary threats (you predict) are shotgun/pistol, soft Level IIIa armor for can be purchased for around $375-$1,200. The higher price is based on lighter weight and greater comfort/fit. If you're not wearing it daily, any level IIIa that fits you will be fine.

For soft armor, I'd recommend going as small as you can that covers from the top of the sternum to about 2 inches above the belly button. Your sides should have at least 1 inch of overlap, wrap the front over the back so the sides of your armor don't become a bullet trap. More coverage, but there is NO protection from rifle rounds.

For hard armor/rifle plates, I'd recommend spending much more and getting LIGHTER plates that are rated for multiple hits. Polyethylene is a great combination of durability and light weight. Ceramic is great protection, but can crack from being dropped. Steel is the cheapest, but avoid if possible. Very heavy. You'll lose side protection, but have protection from rifle rounds.

Diamondback Tactical & PIG are the two that I have personally used and have no problem with. Anything that fits you comfortably will work.

Some plate carriers allow for soft armor to be added as well.

If you feel the need for armor, look into putting together an individual med kit to be carried on your person as well. Chitogauze/Combat Gauze, SOF or CAT tourniquet, ABD, med scissors, 2 rolls of tape, small packet or 2 of antibiotic.

(yes, this was posted by me)
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=465760&highlight=medical+kit

stormy_clothing
10-07-2011, 8:50 AM
When the SHTF most of everyone whose on the forums worrying about it will be dead in the first 30 days.

in So Cal mexico is gonna bum rush us and it will be a race war grudge match - the rest of the country will go into ahole mode and you're likely to be gunned down for walking in broad daylight.

The only way to survive is to stay low and away from things of value. including property.

If you have to get a vest makes sure it's concealed

a1c
10-07-2011, 8:56 AM
America was filled with Americans who loved this country. We have been invaded by people who just want to take, people who hate us, and people who are just in it for them.

The crazy thing is we subsidized many of these people to come here.

You know, some people have been saying that kind of thing for at least a century.

Stoic Bacchanal
10-07-2011, 2:36 PM
America was filled with Americans who loved this country. We have been invaded by people who just want to take, people who hate us, and people who are just in it for them.

The crazy thing is we subsidized many of these people to come here.

Actually America was filled with the same people its filled with now. There were communists, socialists, anarchists, nationalists parading through the streets in the '30s. America as a nation isn't going to devolve into the anarchist free state that Beck is shilling.

Curley Red
10-07-2011, 2:52 PM
Remember if you buy body armour it does have an expiration date, so you will need to buy new every couple of years. I think it is like every 5 years but I am not 100% sure.

loose_electron
10-07-2011, 3:00 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56997.html

three people that will spit hate for a price
idiots all? No they are making tons of money
off of talk radio.

Good old american capitalism, taking advantadge
of their first amendment rights and make money from it.

rspar
10-07-2011, 3:09 PM
I'd rather have someone yelling it's all coming apart time to get yourself prepared than someone saying don't worry everything okay watch some more tv.

repubconserv
10-07-2011, 3:32 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/56997.html

three people that will spit hate for a price
idiots all? No they are making tons of money
off of talk radio.

Good old american capitalism, taking advantadge
of their first amendment rights and make money from it.

uuhhh... I listen to all three... and I have yet to hear hate come from anyone of them. I would love to hear the hate emanating from them... especially Beck, and his message of unity

oh well, some people like their heads in the sand... I've heard it's comfortable

stix213
10-07-2011, 4:24 PM
So the fact that fascism (a political and economic system) was created before means it will be created again? How? Can you point to some reference that states that the EEA or the EU will dissolve into totalitarian fascists states bent on military domination?

Is there a broken dissolute militaristic government in China? Sure they are communist but the ordinary people's standard of living is getting better over there and really to the people in the street that is what they care about. Don't get me wrong, I think China's economy will collapse upon itself in about 10 years or so but that will be due to economic and environmental conditions within its own borders, not the condition of the French economy.

Yeah..bold prediction from Beck, considering that when Hillary was "in office" she tried to slam through a single payer system. The idea that she would try to do it again is not groundbreaking.

You can be worried all you like but that will have no impact on whatever is in the future, whether it be good or bad.

If/when things get really desperate that's when the fighting over people, land, and resources will occur. The players change, the excuses change, the name you give to the new breed of strong arm government philosophy will change, but the game is still the same.

It won't look the same as WWII, it won't play out the same, but when people get desperate that is when the peace eventually snaps one way or another. It always happens. Stop being so fixated on the players of decades past, and look instead at the conditions that allowed those players to take their place in history. Its the conditions that are to be worried about, as those will bring about the new players that take advantage of the desperate for their own agendas.

ubet
10-07-2011, 6:05 PM
I am as conservative as it gets, I like Hannity, Limbaugh (sometimes) and Larz Larson. That being said, I have a tough time with Beck, as I do with Michael Savage. Beck is no ones fool, he is probably one of the smartest of them, but he is a little over the top, sometimes. He is right, but in varying degrees. You can see more of the money signs rolling over in his eyes than others. So you have to temper what he says, with whats going on in the background with him.

I thought things were going to collapse by now, so I might not be one to listen too.

On the armor, it will do you no good if you dont wear it. The article that was written about Argentinas collapse, one of the things he wishes he had was body armor, more than anything else. I would suggest, getting the best you can afford, but make sure its concealable. Friend of mine tells me it is irresponsible to ccw, and NOT have body armor, I am thinking of getting some concealable that will resist pistol rounds.

But like someone said, learn to hunt/snare, how to skin and clean what you kill, store and prepare it, those are just as important if not more than "gear". Gear wears out, skills only improve over time.

I forgot the study, but it said if SHTF 50% of America will be dead in the first 3 weeks. If that is true, half of who you know will be dead before the first month is over, think about that, then adjust things to increase your ability to survive.

If you do buy some, let me know what you get, as I am interested in some too.

good luck

Maddog5150
10-07-2011, 7:30 PM
depends what you are trying to stop...

the Military has cheap plates for small arms. they take one or two hits and they are done. Once again what the military has is crap and as a civilian unless you have access to the militart supply system you should AVOID military gear.

search around for this Dragon Skin (http://www.pinnaclearmor.com/body-armor/dragon-skin/) if you must have armour. Be prepared to take a loan out and make payments but at least you have the proper gear.


Ummmm that stuff is hyped up crap and for a while the owner of pinnacle was facing charges due to him lying about NIJ ratings. Get this, he sold vests to the Airforce who found out about it and at the time he was selling vests to the military, he never actually got an official NIJ rating.
The Dragonskin body army was a great idea but failed so many testings. In a lab it held together but exposed to the heat of the desert, the adhesive keeping together the armored disks or "scales" would essentially become unglued and would start to fall apart. This caused exposed areas in the armor where the disks would fall to the bottom of the armor.
Another issue was that when hit by a heavy hitting weapon, many times the disks would become secondary projectiles entering the body and the third issue with lack of protection was that if it did its job and spread out the trauma like chain/scale mail, the disks would contort or twist to the point where secondary shots could pass through them.
So add all that stuff with lied NIJ ratings, the fact that its 47 pounds as opposed the intercepters 28, I honestly wouldnt want that armor especially for the price that its sold for.

ubet
10-07-2011, 8:02 PM
Ummmm that stuff is hyped up crap and for a while the owner of pinnacle was facing charges due to him lying about NIJ ratings. Get this, he sold vests to the Airforce who found out about it and at the time he was selling vests to the military, he never actually got an official NIJ rating.
The Dragonskin body army was a great idea but failed so many testings. In a lab it held together but exposed to the heat of the desert, the adhesive keeping together the armored disks or "scales" would essentially become unglued and would start to fall apart. This caused exposed areas in the armor where the disks would fall to the bottom of the armor.
Another issue was that when hit by a heavy hitting weapon, many times the disks would become secondary projectiles entering the body and the third issue with lack of protection was that if it did its job and spread out the trauma like chain/scale mail, the disks would contort or twist to the point where secondary shots could pass through them.
So add all that stuff with lied NIJ ratings, the fact that its 47 pounds as opposed the intercepters 28, I honestly wouldnt want that armor especially for the price that its sold for.

Good to know

BMartin1776
10-07-2011, 9:17 PM
Wow a lot of good stuff here.. looks like i have to fig out which way to go armor wise....

As for the political stuff
1) what is happening now isnt just the US its the whole world, this has never happened before. All our economies are tied together.
2) the comments against Beck: I was doing a ton of research and on to a lot of the things now mainstream today many things he was covering ALL before I knew who Glenn Beck was. When I started listening to his material I questioned it but found that the things I researched he was coming up with too. I repeatedly asked many of his critics to give proof that he was lying fraud etc not once would they deliver. Keep in mind at that time I was a skeptic and questioned his intentions so I was willing to hear the other side. You can slam him all you want I know what I know and do not doubt him. I do my homework. I have even found more info on things he has brought up. You dont like him fine but the personal attacks at him are petty.
3) There are ppl bent on destroying this country, these ppl are willing to do whatever it takes, its not the 60's its different and more intense. So much so I have never seen in my lifetime. This country economically is in dire trouble. If you hear the news and believe unemployment for instance is 9.1% you should be quite concerned b/c that is a lie, UE is over 20%.

The country is not in a recession or double dip recession, we are in a depression. Powers that be will not say it for the simple reason of panic. They are not prepared for the uprising and chaos that will follow if the "D" word is used b/c the markets will completely collapse and society will tear itself apart.
"No" you say, b/c there arent food lines and long UE lines? Thats b/c of the unsustainable programs put in place to take those lines places! We now EBT cards that replace the food line and UE insurance extended to 99 weeks that replaces UE lines and countless other social programs. Home prices/values are at depression era low, this was just in the news today! Look at how bad the market fluxes on bad news. Imagine if something bad hits; DOW has already proved it can dip a thousand points out of the blue. And no it was not a fluke when that happened. The list goes on and on. All I can tell some here denying the state of the US is the finacial numbers of today are equal if not worse than the 30's.

Our debt, just the US, cannot be paid back if you took all the money in the world from every single piggy bank to hidden stash of gold. Our total liability is $115+ Trillion dollars.... there is noway to pay this cpl that with the debt of other nations we are all connected to and when one fails the others will follow; Mutually Assured Economic Destruction.

We dont make anything here we are nolonger the central hub of manufacturing aka center of the world for "things" as we were in the early 20th. We use to be the only ones you could get a refrigerator, radio etc from! China a communist state is now to the world what we once were using slave labor. Ther is noway we can comeback we dont make anything anymore. We have become a nation of service, lending and consumption. So unless someone here comes up with something completely innovative that is exclusive to the US(all raw materials and components can be manufactured here) where all the world will come to us for it we are screwed.

We are in a heap of trouble to trivialize any of this is your choice. Im not here to convince or convert folks to believe the Titanic is sinking. I am done trying, the ship is going down and Im concerned with getting in a lifeboat and anyone else who wants in. Those in denial think the ship can be saved by filling the stern with water will raise the bow out from under the water so be it.... good luck with that.
Do your homework I did. I also use to be a "banker"!

So Im here to do homework on things I think Im going to need should the impossible happen. Thanks to those who gave input on armor I have a lot to think about. Even harder because Im jobless........

Sorry this is so long but I had to speak my mind while that right still exists

whtl
12-13-2011, 11:00 AM
Glen Beck is an idiot. Pure and simple. :cool2:

Guess you missed the 60s..?...same story.

(Oh and Glen Beck is a Mormon..so take his opinion on 'hatred of religion' with a grain of salt)

If you have never looked at his T.V. program, you must be getting your info from the likes of MSNBC....that my friend is your biggest mistake. He said the housing bubble was comming and he also predicted the higher cost of food and also predicted the arab uprising. Everyone one the left said he didn't know what he was talking about. Please, before you make a comment do a little research. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

whtl
12-13-2011, 3:52 PM
I don't know about you guys on the left but I'd rather be on the side of anyone who is about 90 to 95% right. Can any one tell us how many times he was wrong? (GLEN BECK) Now be specific.

hcbr
12-13-2011, 4:05 PM
meh...

Dannicus
12-13-2011, 4:39 PM
Are we bumping fruitcake threads for the holidays?:rolleyes:

Cyc Wid It
12-13-2011, 4:50 PM
Belongs in off-topic doesn't it?

alfred1222
12-13-2011, 6:59 PM
I guess if you have the money you can spend it how you see fit
quality armor=heavy cash

This. but to answer your question, i would go with plates. soft armor can not stop rifle rounds

keenkeen
12-13-2011, 7:50 PM
The country is not in a recession or double dip recession, we are in a depression. Powers that be will not say it for the simple reason of panic. They are not prepared for the uprising and chaos that will follow if the "D" word is used b/c the markets will completely collapse and society will tear itself apart.

Do your homework I did. I also use to be a "banker"!



Not sure how I feel about all of your various points but here is where your argument fails for me.

We are neither in a recession or a depression...you see these are economic terms with generally agreed definitions.

According to economists, since 1854, the U.S. has encountered 32 cycles of expansions and contractions, with an average of 17 months of contraction and 38 months of expansion.[5] However, since 1980 there have been only eight periods of negative economic growth over one fiscal quarter or more,[38] and four periods considered recessions:

July 1981 November 1982: 14 months
July 1990 March 1991: 8 months
March 2001 November 2001: 8 months
December 2007 June 2009: 18 months[39][40]

The US has only suffered one depression:

Great Depression
The best-known depression was the Great Depression, which affected most national economies in the world throughout the 1930s. This depression is generally considered to have begun with the Wall Street Crash of 1929, and the crisis quickly spread to other national economies.[10] Between 1929 and 1933, the gross national product of the United States decreased by 33% while the rate of unemployment increased to 25% (with industrial unemployment alone rising to approximately 35% - U.S. employment was still over 25% agricultural). The probable causes of the Great Depression include the loose money policies of the Federal Reserve during the latter 1920s and the consequent misallocation of capital based on easy and inexpensive credit, although this is still hotly debated.

A long-term effect of the Great Depression was the departure of every major currency from the gold standard, although the initial impetus for this was World War I. See: Bretton Woods Accord In any case, the world economy has simply outgrown the capacity of additions to the world gold supply to accommodate the increase in world population and increased trade without periodic, painful revaluations of any currencies tied to gold.

I know some want to "change" the definitions of terms to suit their personal motives but even Glenn Beck is smart enough to stay away from false claims like these...because educated people quickly dismiss them as claptrap.