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oaklander
10-05-2011, 9:39 PM
MODS: this relates to 2A work that some of us are doing in Oakland. We are trying to help Oakland reduce violence, and we want to show them that law abiding gun owners are not the problem here.

-------------------

ALL - if you are free on Saturday, October 15, 2011 - and want to help Oakland get some clarity on the violence issue, please consider attending this event:

http://www2.oaklandnet.com/SafetySummit/index.htm

Mayor Jean Quan
District Attorney Nancy O’Malley
Superintendent Tony Smith
Chief of Police Anthony Batts
Chief Probation Officer David Muhammad

Invite you to attend Oakland’s

Neighborhood Safety Summit

Together we can stop the violence
Sharing strategies for stronger neighborhoods

FREE

Breakfast & Lunch Provided


Saturday, October 15, 2011
8:00 am to 1:30 pm
Laney College Gymnasium
900 Fallon Street, Oakland
Parking off of 7th Street

I kind of know three of those folks, and sat across the table from another one last week. So this is not something where we will be outsiders. Our job is to attend, and listen to concerns. If you live or work in Oakland, or have significant ties to Oakland, then I encourage you to attend.

I *may* host a breakout group (this is not my event, so I do not get the make the rules like I normally do). But even if I do not, I am going to do there and listen to what folks have to say.

They key here is LISTEN, not TALK!

It goes without saying that me and all of you support the right of self defense, and that we support civil rights. Our goal in attending this, however, will not be to talk - rather - just to listen. My sense, from living in East Oakland for nearly 10 years, is that Oakland is a pragmatic town, and would have FIXED this violence issue many years ago. What has apparently happened is that politics and special interest groups have essentially "locked" Oakland ("thanks" LCAV, and others). Right now there is enough outrage for us to really make a difference, as Oaklanders. WE CAN FIX THIS.

THE REASON this applies to our civil rights is that modern gun control STARTED IN OAKLAND! What we need to do not is help Oakland unscrew itself after about 40 years of major policy screwups on the "gun" thing.

Please only come if you have a sincere desire to help the town that I love!!!

Please do not wear anything about guns, or gun rights. Please do not talk about guns! Our goal is to listen, and be helpful. There may be some action items (which will likely NOT relate directly to gun rights), and I would like you all to step up the plate on those items, if you have the time to devote to this.

AGAIN - this is not a "gun" conference. This is a violence-reduction summit. If you go, be prepared to get your hands dirty, and work. The MERE FACT that law abiding gun owners are now going to HELP OAKLAND is the big thing here. That alone sends a clear message that we are the solution, and not the problem.

IF YOU CAN MAKE IT:

1) vote YES in the poll, and;
2) fill out the simple form at http://www2.oaklandnet.com/SafetySummit/index.htm

There is free food!!!

:D

Please act with extreme decorum and respect. Many of the people who will be attending have lost family members to gang violence. We must show the proper respect and common human kindness that we show members of our own families.

We are one family.

Window_Seat
10-05-2011, 9:47 PM
And don't bring shampoo. :D

IAS, I'd love to show up, and will if I am not working.

Erik.

oaklander
10-05-2011, 9:54 PM
And don't bring shampoo. :D

IAS, I'd love to show up, and will if I am not working.

Erik.

Thanks E!!!!

What I would like to do is have 100 of us show up, dressed nice, and all polite and stuff (except for me, you can't take me anywhere!). . .

:D

That thing alone will remind people that there is a friendly army of folks who are willing to help Oakland, at no charge! Right now, everyone wants to just throw money at Oakland. Well, I am here to tell you that it does not work!!!!

Oakland is an EXACT EXAMPLE of why bad policies end up killing people. That is not hyperbole. Our violence reduction policies are a mishmash of failed programs that were teleported in from other parts of the state. Let's come up with an Oakland policy!!! Oakland based, and Oakland run. I am working right now with an established group - and amazingly, they kind of listen to me now and then.

BUT - I need MORE INFORMATION. I need to know exactly what people here WANT -and not what OUTSIDERS THINK WE WANT. I get some stuff from talking to people on the street, and since I have lived here, I have probably talked to AT LEAST several thousand people (I talk to several people per day, since I am very talkative). . .

The main thing I am hearing is a disconnect from LE, and from City Hall. I am hearing that people want to fix the problem at the CORE, and not just with band-aids (like midnight basketball). . .

Strangely enough, as a group of activists, the people here at CGN may actually be able to help FIX THIS. We have enough folks who live and work in Oakland, and who KNOW Oakland. We now just need to get people pointed in the right direction.

Andy Taylor
10-06-2011, 7:13 AM
Unforunately I have a funeral to attend.

Havoc70
10-06-2011, 10:13 AM
I have no ties to Oakland save I was born there, is that enough?

oaklander
10-06-2011, 10:52 AM
I have no ties to Oakland save I was born there, is that enough?

Works for ME!!!

:D

nicki
10-06-2011, 11:47 AM
Oakland is a city that is in the hole because of "Libtard" policies.

I know most of us don't live in Oakland, why should we care. Well let me tell you some of the reasons why we should care.

1. Like it or not, we are interdependent on each other. Oakland's problems spill over to the rest of the bay area directly and indirectly.

All insurance policies we have are based on shared risk, if there are regions that your insurance carriers serve that have high loses, guess who shares in those loses.

2. Government spending. Because of the way our government has grown and how money is collected at both the Fed and State level and redistributed to local areas, poor and crime infested areas get more taxes dollars than they pay in.

If Oakland's economy turns around, then they become tax payers rather than tax consumers.

3. Oakland is an example of big government failure. If we can work with the people of Oakland and show them that they don't need big government, that in fact big government is the problem, that the people themselves are the solution, we will turn many over to our values.

4. The politicians from high crime areas are the ones who push gun control. Logically they know gun control does not work, but they don't care because it allows them to stand up and divert attention of their constituents from them to something else.

5. It is easy for us to stand up and talk about our rights, when we come in and talk about our responsibilities to be part of the violence solutions, we change the dynamics.

Coming in and working with people who we disagree with on guns to find real solutions to violence will not turn hard core anti gunners, but what it will do is bring fence sitters to our side.

6. Being part of the solution is never easy, there are always other things we would like to be doing, but life is about making choices and often the right choices are the hardest and most inconvient ones.

7. Many of us have kids, we want the best for them.

How would you feel if your kid was killed or injured in a drive by.
How would you feel if your kids couldn't go out and play due to crime
How would you feel if your kids were forced to join a street gang
How would you feel if your kids had no hope, no dreams.

Oakland can turn around if the people of Oakland take back control of their streets and if they do so, we can create a model that can be applied to other cities not only in California, but the rest of the country.

Bad and Desperate people in Oakland will eventually spread their violence outside of Oakland. If you live within 100 miles of Oakland, these effects you.

8. This is a personal question you all need to ask yourself, what is the purpose of my life. "Contribution" to make our world a better place is something that gives one a "good feeling" that money can't buy.

This is why many of the "Rich" are involved in "charity projects".

9. Just our presence sends a message that we care and if we show up in numbers, we break the negative stereotypes of us. We aren't going to see the Brady/LCAV people there in numbers because they don't exist.

The few I have ran into have that "glazed look" in their eyes, the one you get when you take too many psych meds.

10. When I went to the last violence event Oak posted, the community leaders spoke that Oakland needed a spiritual revival. They were praying to "God" for deliverance, not government.

When Congresswoman Barbara Lee came up and went on a anti gun, NRA rant, the crowd was silent. Up to the time she came, the crowd was alive, very vocal, cheering on each speaker.

Dead silence from this crowd meant people weren't buying her message.

11. Guns are an issue in Oakland and we can change the dialogue.

The fact that some of us actually build our own guns means we can show with examples that gun bans can't work, all they will do is create a new black market.

Perhaps Oak could stand up to a crowd with a "homebuilt AK" or "Mac10" and then proceed to tell the crowd that if he was making black market guns what extra features and lack of features they could expect from the black market.

12. Oakland is such a ****hole that we have no place to go but up.:43:

Nicki

oaklander
10-06-2011, 2:55 PM
Thanks Nicki!!!

ALL good points!!!

Interestingly, at this point in the dialog - we are just listening, and we are not talking too much about guns. We can talk about failed policies, but the gun thing is not a good sell, just right now. . .

It's kind of like Gene's reason for not going after the NFA right now (it is like walking up to a woman at a bar and asking her for anal sex). I guess if I want a political career, I will have to not post things like that in the future - but that is the dynamic here.

:D

We have a true desire to help Oakland on the violence issue, and we ARE subject matter experts. But right now - we are just being useful people, and not being useful gun people. Just useful people who like to empower people with ALL of their civil rights!!!

NOW - that is not to say that I am not doing GUN STUFF HERE!!!

I will be planning a CRPA outreach event, and I want to get every law abiding Oakland gun owner to join CRPA, visit Calguns, and also join NRA. Our rights depend on our memberships, to a certain extent.

BUT - that is a separate track. And is NOT directly related to my desire to reduce violent crime in the town that I love. . .

Ubermcoupe
10-06-2011, 2:57 PM
I am a sucker for free food (@ I love Yoshi's) Alas, I will still be in NYC. Please take pictures and report back! :)

oaklander
10-06-2011, 3:02 PM
I am a sucker for free food (@ I love Yoshi's) Alas, I will still be in NYC. Please take pictures and report back! :)

Will do!!!

I am actually going to do some informal outreach for this event here in Oakland (I want to get business owners to show up).

Based on my intel - the event is only being promoted to the "usual suspects" (local gadflys). EEEK!!!

Ubermcoupe
10-06-2011, 3:08 PM
Hopefully we'll have more events come spring. Maybe also a Holiday get together! :)

oaklander
10-06-2011, 6:52 PM
YES! I totally want to do some fun events out here (Bay Area). We have THOUSANDS of new shooters in CA right now, and it is our job - ALL OF US - to welcome them and teach them how to safely and legally enjoy the sport!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

microwaveguy
10-06-2011, 7:09 PM
Well I won't be able to make it because of work , but I was born in Oakland ........... Left a looooong time ago. I'll toss out the idea of inviting the more promising out to a shoot-n-que. :)

Dreaded Claymore
10-06-2011, 8:01 PM
I don't live or work in Oakland, and I don't have any "significant ties" there. But I like helping people. So I'll show up, unless I get a job offer and have to work then.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 8:12 PM
Sweet! Yes, our job is to just really be supportive and LISTEN. If we keep things STRICTLY confidential, we could even discuss specific ideas here online - as long as we follow some basic ethical rules (there are several that relate to the work of 501(c)(3)'s.)

Jeez - I am such a lawyer dork sometimes!

If anything, we will be able to eat breakfast and lunch on our taxpayer money. But I think we will find that this will be helpful to Oakland, AND helpful to us. To the extent that firearms ARE actually used in crime, we should address these issues somehow. In a way, and ALTHOUGH WE ARE NOT THE PROBLEM, there is a moral backing for the idea of being part of the solution here.

This is all WAY ABOVE my ability to understand things at this point. I know this sounds strangely spiritual - but it just seems "right," what we are doing. And that is "me" speaking. Just Kevin, with no titles attached. Just me as a person thinking out loud here.




Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

taperxz
10-06-2011, 8:17 PM
Sorry, this is to much for for me. Oakland is not a major player. Oakland's problems are inherent Oakland. I think there is to much personal motives in this 'violence" fight. Hope you prevail and end the violence in this highly segregated cess pool. Sorry but Even going to a Raider game can tell you that this is not a 2A fight and has more to do with social economics than anything else. I have Been in this area for 46 years and one thing i learned, you can't reinvent the wheel. JMO

Dreaded Claymore
10-06-2011, 8:22 PM
This is all WAY ABOVE my ability to understand things at this point. I know this sounds strangely spiritual - but it just seems "right," what we are doing.

Don't worry, spirituality isn't strange. It's part of life. The same is true about feeling like you should do something but not knowing why.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 8:33 PM
Sorry, this is to much for for me. Oakland is not a major player. Oakland's problems are inherent Oakland. I think there is to much personal motives in this 'violence" fight. Hope you prevail and end the violence in this highly segregated cess pool. Sorry but Even going to a Raider game can tell you that this is not a 2A fight and has more to do with social economics than anything else. I have Been in this area for 46 years and one thing i learned, you can't reinvent the wheel. JMO

Of course I have personal motives! I just moved back here with my new wife (SierraApril). I want the town to be safer for her! And I do enjoy doing pro bono work.

But I do not care about me. I do NOT want to be famous. People who have actually MET ME know this. I sometimes "get" famous to do certain projects where I need to be visible. But I like being anonymous, especially HERE IN EAST OAKLAND. Jeez, dude, do you really think I am that stupid? Seriously man.

I am trying to do something good here (where modern gun control started, BTW), and you are crapping on it. That is just mean.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

ETA: ROFL, I mean seriously - like I almost hurt myself on the hardwood. I figured out what your issue is. You made the same comment in another post, but I ignored it (I do not generally read what you write). You are one of those people who only wants certain folks to own guns. That is hilarious! The last person who implied that was run off this forum.

This will be entertaining - EXCEPT - I do not have time for you. So please just post so I can be amused. You can send CGF a small donation when Oakland crime actually DOES go down in the next two years or so. They have nothing to do with this project, but I just wanted to help you feel like you are actually HELPING SOMETHING HERE.

;-)

taperxz
10-06-2011, 8:38 PM
No its not mean Oak, And i truly wish you well in your endeavor! I mean that!! I just feel that you, wanting to run for office, using your well established expertise here in the 2A fight are using people fighting for 2A rights in your personal endeavors to clean up Oakland.

taperxz
10-06-2011, 8:39 PM
Oh and maybe its just my writing style but i don't crap anywhere but in a toilet or in the woods FWIW.

taperxz
10-06-2011, 8:44 PM
Personally, I loved you fight against the US Forest Service, BLM and other agencies that were violating our 2A rights and was disappointed to see that abandoned for the City of Oakland. I would have loved to help you with that endeavor as i have some good knowledge of those agencies.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 8:48 PM
No its not mean Oak, And i truly wish you well in your endeavor! I mean that!! I just feel that you, wanting to run for office, using your well established expertise here in the 2A fight are using people fighting for 2A rights in your personal endeavors to clean up Oakland.

Of course that is what I am doing!

My sole reason for wanting to get involved here is to help my hometown get clarity on the violence issue. You still seem not to understand how important this is. But for reasons relating to being a 501(c)(3), CGF can't support or oppose this. Just read between lines. This is something good for Oakland AND our civil rights. The mere fact that you can't understand what everyone else has figured out makes me frustrated with you. It is like you do not see reality, or something.

There is no hidden agenda here. I fricken POINT people to Calguns right now. There is nothing other than what you see, I am hiding NOTHING about my motives. Jeez dude, even implying I am like that is offensive. My reputation in my community is that I DO NOT LIE TO PEOPLE. Where I live, being a dummy gets you shot. I live my life by being HONEST WITH PEOPLE.

People in the highest level of everything all know exactly what I am doing and why. And they support this, BTW. You do not even understand.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 8:50 PM
Personally, I loved you fight against the US Forest Service, BLM and other agencies that were violating our 2A rights and was disappointed to see that abandoned for the City of Oakland. I would have loved to help you with that endeavor as i have some good knowledge of those agencies.

Look, those things bother me too! I was on the phone with USFS, and I could tell that the persons I spoke with cared little for our rights. But I get to pick my own little battles, not you.

ALSO, you do realize that this work actually costs me about 100,000 per year? That is the amount of hours I spend on this, times what I make per hour. If I did not do this work, I could have already paid off my student loans. So you are starting to sound fairly petty to me at this point.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

taperxz
10-06-2011, 8:53 PM
Oak, lived here my whole life! Daughter even lived in E. Oakland with two of my grand kids! You don't need to tell me whats up in that town!! Like i said, you have very good intentions! I wish you well! Its still not a 2A issue anyway you cut it. The people that live there have much more important issues than just firearms.

I'm sorry to see you get so upset with someone who KNOWS that area and has first hand experience with that area not mention a family relative who was killed in a drive by just 2 weeks ago in So. San Francisco who was only 14 yrs old. I'm just saying its a lot more than 2A rights.

taperxz
10-06-2011, 8:55 PM
Look, those things bother me too! I was on the phone with USFS, and I could tell that the persons I spoke with cared little for our rights. But I get to pick my own little battles, not you.

ALSO, you do realize that this work actually costs me about 100,000 per year? That is the amount of hours I spend on this, times what I make per hour. If I did not do this work, I could have already paid off my student loans. So you are starting to sound fairly petty to me at this point.


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

Any time a lawyer cries me the blues on what they make and dont make especially at the Elks Lodge in san mateo i just tell them to cry me a river and try being a drywall worker these days. We all got our own problems. Don't we?

taperxz
10-06-2011, 8:58 PM
I sincerely hope you get the volunteers you need for your endeavor Oak! What you are doing is admirable and sincere and i hope you run for office there to fix their problems.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 8:59 PM
Any time a lawyer cries me the blues on what they make and dont make especially at the Elks Lodge in san mateo i just tell them to cry me a river and try being a drywall worker these days. We all got our own problems. Don't we?

Elks lodge? Have you been drinking? You are not even sounding rational at this point. You sound petty, vindictive, and not keyed in with what is happening outside of your part of the state.

I am not going to debate you. It is like trying to get Sam to poop outside. He has cognitive issues that prevent him from understanding certain things.

Do you even know where I live, and why I am so broke all the time? I spend all my time doing this stuff. But I WILL let you have the last word. Your turn.

;-)

taperxz
10-06-2011, 9:03 PM
No Oak, i don't drink much. I work out at the gym there. Been doing that for 15 years now. MY part of the state is also the local bay area :) just saying.

taperxz
10-06-2011, 9:05 PM
Sorry again for getting you riled up Oak. I guess i am not part of your little circle. I really am though in the fight for the 2A. No sarcasm intended!!

oaklander
10-06-2011, 9:10 PM
Sorry again for getting you riled up Oak. I guess i am not part of your little circle. I really am though in the fight for the 2A. No sarcasm intended!!

All is good! ;-)

Sorry, had to get last word!

We are all in the same fight - and my message is that we need unity. That means we trust each other, and support everything, unless it is obviously going to hurt us. THERE IS NO INNER CIRCLE!

Just people who are stupid enough to work for free.

Like me and the rest of us. You too, if you want to get more involved - we will WELCOME YOU!


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

taperxz
10-06-2011, 9:17 PM
All is good! ;-)

Sorry, had to get last word!

We are all in the same fight - and my message is that we need unity. That means we trust each other, and support everything, unless it is obviously going to hurt us. THERE IS NO INNER CIRCLE!

Just people who are stupid enough to work for free.

Like me and the rest of us. You too, if you want to get more involved - we will WELCOME YOU!


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

No inner circle? Yes there is!! Thats not a bad thing though! No one needs to many cooks in the kitchen. I have no problem being a brave. Albeit a loud obnoxious one:D Its worked for me in MY life;)

puppy8a9
10-06-2011, 9:19 PM
Sometimes one issue area becomes too much and takes too much time. I regularly take on a variety of topics.

I may have battled cities but that is not my primary focus. Right now my focus is what I need for my family. Volunteers are valuable assets and hard to come by. Any attorney doing city or state stuff really helps us all.

If we get Oakland that is huge. Later we can apply that further since if Kevin runs and gets a seat he can be bumped up to higher positions and maybe to the state where he represents all of us at some level. We need pro-gun people in positions of power if we can.

DocSkinner
10-06-2011, 9:48 PM
Oak, lived here my whole life! Daughter even lived in E. Oakland with two of my grand kids! You don't need to tell me whats up in that town!! Like i said, you have very good intentions! I wish you well! Its still not a 2A issue anyway you cut it. The people that live there have much more important issues than just firearms.

I'm sorry to see you get so upset with someone who KNOWS that area and has first hand experience with that area not mention a family relative who was killed in a drive by just 2 weeks ago in So. San Francisco who was only 14 yrs old. I'm just saying its a lot more than 2A rights.

Too think it is a not a 2A issue is to think that, well,..., uhm, no comparison - it is to NOT think.

Laws are made (and laws' meanings decided) based upon popular support and current beliefs. We have some wins now, but if we don't start changing how people think and feel about firearms and ownership, we will hit a wall, and things will turn. To think otherwise is to have NO grasp of how our republic (that we like to call a democracy, or a 'representational democracy', which means a republic) works.

DocSkinner
10-06-2011, 9:55 PM
All is good! ;-)

Sorry, had to get last word!

We are all in the same fight - and my message is that we need unity. That means we trust each other, and support everything, unless it is obviously going to hurt us. THERE IS NO INNER CIRCLE!

Just people who are stupid enough to work for free.

Like me and the rest of us. You too, if you want to get more involved - we will WELCOME YOU!


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.


Any time there are a few key individuals that a group follows and does what those say, and squash what they squash, there is a inner circle. The true art of leading is not be considered a leader (to lead without leading). Just because there are no distinct titles, do not for a second believe that their aren't leaders that are defined by the group. You are too smart (and I know you have read the right books) to believe their is no inner circle. Claiming otherwise makes you look naive, which all of us know you are not, or disingenuous, which is worse than naive.

That is not to say I disagree with what you are doing, and you know that. I completely support yours and anyone's efforts along this line, as that is how you win the real war. But to keep proclaiming that there is no leadership who's opinions drive a majority of the group is tiresome.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 10:27 PM
Any time there are a few key individuals that a group follows and does what those say, and squash what they squash, there is a inner circle. The true art of leading is not be considered a leader (to lead without leading). Just because there are no distinct titles, do not for a second believe that their aren't leaders that are defined by the group. You are too smart (and I know you have read the right books) to believe their is no inner circle. Claiming otherwise makes you look naive, which all of us know you are not, or disingenuous, which is worse than naive.

That is not to say I disagree with what you are doing, and you know that. I completely support yours and anyone's efforts along this line, as that is how you win the real war. But to keep proclaiming that there is no leadership who's opinions drive a majority of the group is tiresome.

No, seriously - there is not one. There ARE people who talk to each other a lot because they work on the same projects - but that is IT. Dude, I am seriously telling you that there is no circle. I got involved in this by accident, and I am generally kind of a pest. If there was some inner circle - they would not want me!

Basically, what you see on Facebook, and here - that is it - then just random communications between people who are doing projects. The mere fact that we generally kick butt is ENTIRELY DUE TO THIS STRUCTURE.

I am smart and that is why I am revealing this dynamic to you. This would not even work if there was an inner circle. There are friends, and projects, and that is it.

ETA: this is actually a good thread. I am really kind of thinking about some things. Doc - you ARE right about some things - let's talk next time we see each other. I think me and Sierra are doing something with a Calgunner from LA who is flying up. (She is not part of a circle, except the one that contains really cool people).

ANYWAYS - we all might head to Chabot. You should totally join us!

NOW: when I say WE ARE ONE WINNING TEAM - I am talking about all of us. Again, the way to get involved is to go to events. Then just keep going. Informal circles arise out of events, but these circles overlap. There is no inside circle. I guess there is the litigation circle, which kind of drives the grassroots circle, but now this is getting too esoteric.

Please let me explain all of this to you in person, it is almost too complex to comprehend. All I know is that we make friends, and we do events, and everything seems to work out. The key is not to overthink the process, just join it and enjoy the ride. When I started doing this pro bono work in 2006/7 - I had NO IDEA that I would become a civil rights activist. I just wanted a certain cool AR15 clone that I had seen in Shotgun News.

When I saw how stupid the laws were, and how they were hurting the state, I got involved - but again even that was by accident. There is a plan for the litigation, but everything else is random - and that is why we continue to win.

This "randomness" is exactly how you should appear to the opposition, BTW. And I am learning this stuff from Sun Tzu and Lao Tzu. The point is that things are both more complex, AND more simple than they appear.

ROFL - and there is still no inner circle!

Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

oaklander
10-06-2011, 11:50 PM
Or is there? It is highly possible they leave me out?

Oh crap!

ROFL

Doc, I will spring for lunch today - at a secret place only the inner circle of poor folks who live in East Oakland know about!

Hope you like Southern food like I do!

No, seriously - there is not one. There ARE people who talk to each other a lot because they work on the same projects - but that is IT. Dude, I am seriously telling you that there is no circle. I got involved in this by accident, and I am generally kind of a pest. If there was some inner circle - they would not want me!

Basically, what you see on Facebook, and here - that is it - then just random communications between people who are doing projects. The mere fact that we generally kick butt is ENTIRELY DUE TO THIS STRUCTURE.

I am smart and that is why I am revealing this dynamic to you. This would not even work if there was an inner circle. There are friends, and projects, and that is it.

ETA: this is actually a good thread. I am really kind of thinking about some things. Doc - you ARE right about some things - let's talk next time we see each other. I think me and Sierra are doing something with a Calgunner from LA who is flying up. (She is not part of a circle, except the one that contains really cool people).

ANYWAYS - we all might head to Chabot. You should totally join us!

NOW: when I say WE ARE ONE WINNING TEAM - I am talking about all of us. Again, the way to get involved is to go to events. Then just keep going. Informal circles arise out of events, but these circles overlap. There is no inside circle. I guess there is the litigation circle, which kind of drives the grassroots circle, but now this is getting too esoteric.

Please let me explain all of this to you in person, it is almost too complex to comprehend. All I know is that we make friends, and we do events, and everything seems to work out. The key is not to overthink the process, just join it and enjoy the ride. When I started doing this pro bono work in 2006/7 - I had NO IDEA that I would become a civil rights activist. I just wanted a certain cool AR15 clone that I had seen in Shotgun News.

When I saw how stupid the laws were, and how they were hurting the state, I got involved - but again even that was by accident. There is a plan for the litigation, but everything else is random - and that is why we continue to win.

This "randomness" is exactly how you should appear to the opposition, BTW. And I am learning this stuff from Sun Tzu and Lao Tzu. The point is that things are both more complex, AND more simple than they appear.

ROFL - and there is still no inner circle!

Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

nicki
10-07-2011, 1:41 AM
While we listen, we must also respectfully respond to any concern with guns.

The issue of gun rights won't go over well with this group, so it will require a much different tactic.

The worst thing we could say is "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".

Bad people do bad things with guns. Trying to control guns is counter productive because bad people will always get guns and now gun control alienates many people who could have helped oakland.

The people who will pull this together will be the women of Oakland because they are tired of their children dying.

If we can turn around Oakland, we can turn around other cities in the bay area, then the rest of the state, then the rest of the country.

But the biggest step is always the first one.

Nicki

oaklander
10-07-2011, 2:07 AM
While we listen, we must also respectfully respond to any concern with guns.

The issue of gun rights won't go over well with this group, so it will require a much different tactic.

The worst thing we could say is "Guns don't kill people, people kill people".

Bad people do bad things with guns. Trying to control guns is counter productive because bad people will always get guns and now gun control alienates many people who could have helped oakland.

The people who will pull this together will be the women of Oakland because they are tired of their children dying.

If we can turn around Oakland, we can turn around other cities in the bay area, then the rest of the state, then the rest of the country.

But the biggest step is always the first one.

Nicki

Yes, as is obvious - I am still figuring stuff out!

My saying is when in doubt, just try and be useful. At this point, I will wash toilets if I have to - just to fix this violent crime issue. AND - washing toilets is FUN. Back before I decided to return to college at age 26, I was working a series of jobs. Someone who got paid to do construction would have been a diety to me. The only reason I am a lawyer now is because I got tired of being told what to do.

I can't take me anywhere!


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

mag360
10-07-2011, 6:38 AM
one day one of these cool oakland events will mesh up with a day I'm either off or can get covered. Until then I'll think of you Oak when I'm gettin hyphy at the side show.

Lol.

oaklander
10-07-2011, 2:07 PM
one day one of these cool oakland events will mesh up with a day I'm either off or can get covered. Until then I'll think of you Oak when I'm gettin hyphy at the side show.

Lol.

Winning!

Yes, we are doing a good thing here - and anyone who does not understand that is just not really a good person. Let me put it this way. . .

We ARE subject matter experts on some of the issues here, and we have REALLY SMART PEOPLE who want to see violent crime decrease here. For us to NOT DO ANYTHING is morally wrong - and again, I will not back down on the morals here. There IS a right and wrong in life. If you HAVE the ability to fix a problem, then simple human goodness says YOU FIX THE PROBLEM!

Keyboard commandos are fine - but we need actual "people" here, on the ground, working on this. Anyone who thinks I am doing this for "Kevin" simply does not know me. My reputation is that, if ANYTHING, I actually do too much work for free, and people in our own movement are concerned that I spend TOO MUCH TIME DOING FREE WORK WHEN I SHOULD BE FEEDING MY OWN FAMILY.

They kind of did a friendly "intervention" on me at Murphys, and I listened and realized they were right.

By working locally, here in Oakland, instead of at a state level, I am hoping to kind of integrate things better. I am already doing MUCH LESS traveling, and I AM putting in more hours at the day job.

I have already missed two CRPA "BOD" events precisely because I am slowing down, working locally, and not spending a couple grand per month traveling all around the state (my hotel bills alone for Pleasant Hill were in the hundreds).

My "problem" in life is that I kind of have a compulsion to help other people. This is not something that I just made up to sound cool. The ONLY WAY that I was able to pull myself out of my past life back in the 1980's was to kind of just focus on not being selfish. I guess this is why I got so upset with the criticism. It is just mean spirited, and is not even accurate.

So far, we are doing EXTREMELY WELL. I literally now have a leadership position within one of the groups here, and I have direct access to many of the decisionmakers. I can get resources from other groups, but I REALLY want to see OUR GROUP get into this mess. We have the expertise and cohesion to help clean it up.

IF, I continue to get resistance from our own community, then I will simply exclude us, and work with other communities - BUT the sense I am getting is that MOST of our community DOES WANT THIS.

Either way, it WILL HAPPEN. The issue now is how many of us want to be a part of the solution. I am "in" as are several hundred other people here!


Sent from my Maxi-Pad.

Dreaded Claymore
10-08-2011, 4:01 PM
I love these Oaklander threads where someone posts a short comment, and then Oaklander posts another wall of text in reply, hahahaha. :grouphug:

oaklander
10-08-2011, 6:18 PM
I love these Oaklander threads where someone posts a short comment, and then Oaklander posts another wall of text in reply, hahahaha. :grouphug:

The scary part is that I am like this in real life too!

;-)

Sierra has learned to just kind of tune me out. That is why I do all the BBQ's (fresh victims for my stupid civil rights monlogues).

I WAS also sending OVER LONG emails at work too. So they just kind of want me to just work and otherwise STFU!

I can't take me anywhere!

CRAP! Doing it again.

PS, the City of Oakland is actually being really cool to our little group right now (can't say more) - AND this means WE may actually be able to have an impact here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

johnny_22
10-11-2011, 12:49 PM
Tired of being told NO to good ideas (gang injunctions, curfews, etc.).

Just heard on KCBS-740 AM radio.

berto
10-11-2011, 12:56 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/11/BAD41LG93T.DTL

Batts leaving. Not good.

oaklander
10-12-2011, 11:21 PM
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/11/BAD41LG93T.DTL

Batts leaving. Not good.

Yes, agreed!

Oakland needs good citizens more than ever!

Sunwolf
10-13-2011, 4:08 PM
Thanks E!!!!

What I would like to do is have 100 of us show up, dressed nice, and all polite and stuff (except for me, you can't take me anywhere!). . .

:D

That thing alone will remind people that there is a friendly army of folks who are willing to help Oakland, at no charge! Right now, everyone wants to just throw money at Oakland. Well, I am here to tell you that it does not work!!!!

Oakland is an EXACT EXAMPLE of why bad policies end up killing people. That is not hyperbole. Our violence reduction policies are a mishmash of failed programs that were teleported in from other parts of the state. Let's come up with an Oakland policy!!! Oakland based, and Oakland run. I am working right now with an established group - and amazingly, they kind of listen to me now and then.

BUT - I need MORE INFORMATION. I need to know exactly what people here WANT -and not what OUTSIDERS THINK WE WANT. I get some stuff from talking to people on the street, and since I have lived here, I have probably talked to AT LEAST several thousand people (I talk to several people per day, since I am very talkative). . .

The main thing I am hearing is a disconnect from LE, and from City Hall. I am hearing that people want to fix the problem at the CORE, and not just with band-aids (like midnight basketball). . .

Strangely enough, as a group of activists, the people here at CGN may actually be able to help FIX THIS. We have enough folks who live and work in Oakland, and who KNOW Oakland. We now just need to get people pointed in the right direction.

This is a great idea!Keep up the good work.Unfortunately,I am not a resident of Oakland and am bogged down out in the Tules!

oaklander
10-13-2011, 7:52 PM
This is a great idea!Keep up the good work.Unfortunately,I am not a resident of Oakland and am bogged down out in the Tules!

Thanks! Yes, amazingly - I am now working within a mainline "old school" group here in Oakland. They are WAAAAY PROGRESSIVE.

But they seem to respect our civil rights. It is THIS STUFF that tells me that the old ideas about right and left are not always correct, at least with respect to certain civil rights.

We are in planning stages right now - but when this stuff hits the press, I MAY link it up. I kind of want to keep things separate, just since it makes things easier to do. BUT - they totally know who I am and what I/we stand for - and they REALLY, REALLY LIKE ME!

I guess it proves that "rights are rights."

;-)


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

Purple K
10-13-2011, 9:14 PM
Normally, unless I'm at work, when I see a thread that says "We need xxx well dressed people to show up", I show up. Other than You and the Mrs. I have no ties to Oakland. If it weren't for You two and an occasional trip to the airport and the stadium, I'd never go to Oakland. I like to help. I enjoy it! Unfortunately, my nephew was murdered in Oakland a few weeks ago. That event has left me with no desire to help Oakland in any way. Maybe next time.... Maybe.

oaklander
10-13-2011, 9:19 PM
Normally, unless I'm at work, when I see a thread that says "We need xxx well dressed people to show up", I show up. Other than You and the Mrs. I have no ties to Oakland. If it weren't for You two and an occasional trip to the airport and the stadium, I'd never go to Oakland. I like to help. I enjoy it! Unfortunately, my nephew was murdered in Oakland a few weeks ago. That even has left me with no desire to help Oakland in any way. Maybe next time.... Maybe.

Yes M, me and R were so sad to hear that news from you the other day. I seriously do not know the solution. But we have many people trying to sort it out now. The tipping point for me was when I went to a candlelight vigil for a little boy who was killed in gang-related crossfire down on East 14th.

I seriously do not know how I would react if it was a family member.


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

oaklander
10-14-2011, 7:13 PM
See you all there! Interestingly - last time I was at that exact addy was when I sat for the Bar in1994. Cool, old building, BTW. ;-)


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

Window_Seat
10-14-2011, 7:17 PM
Do we wear suits, ties, etc? Or do we wear our decent cloths? Normally I'm in shorts, flips (ankle problems don't allow me many options), but I'll throw on my best black Levis and a polo (not the CGN polo) with my 5.11 boots... Unless otherwise told. Hopefully Batts is there, and I'll see if he can retract his resignation... :D

Erik.

oaklander
10-14-2011, 7:18 PM
Do we wear suits, ties, etc? Or do we wear our decent cloths? Normally I'm in shorts, flips (ankle problems don't allow me many options), but I'll throw on my best black Levis and a polo (not the CGN polo)... Unless otherwise told.

Erik.

I am going to wear shorts and flip flops! FTFW!

;-)

Our main thing is to listen. That means that we are just there with no outward message other than "we support Oakland."

Sierra will be home relaxing after a busy week - so we MAY come back here after, or maybe somewhere else - still playing by ear!

In my dream world, The Mayor likes all of us so much that we all go to a bar and get toasted together, along with the interim c.o.p. That will occur in about .0000001 percent of all possible scenarios.

Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

Ubermcoupe
10-14-2011, 7:45 PM
Go get 'em tomorrow Kev! Get some good publicity for us! :)

oaklander
10-14-2011, 8:03 PM
Go get 'em tomorrow Kev! Get some good publicity for us! :)

Thanks! Yes, will be low key - but will certainly not be in closet!

IN FACT - today I was talking to the nice young lady who manages my favorite bank branch in SF. Turns out that she and her father are WAY INTO sporting clays! I gave her my contact info, and suggested that she and/ or her father contact me if they ever need anything related to our civil rights movement.

"We" are everywhere, even in the yuppiest part of the most anti-gun city in CA!

;-)


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

Ubermcoupe
10-14-2011, 8:51 PM
IN FACT - today I was talking to the nice young lady who manages my favorite bank branch in SF. Turns out that she and her father are WAY INTO sporting clays! I gave her my contact info, and suggested that she and/ or her father contact me if they ever need anything related to our civil rights movement.


I had similar experience with a former customer of mine. Had no idea she was into hunting until she came with a Benelli shirt. I promptly corrected her that Remington is the brand she should trust, nevertheless it was a nice conversation with an unsuspecting "soccer-mom" type. :)

oaklander
10-14-2011, 9:03 PM
Oak - what time do you plan on being there?

Picking up a friend at about 8 - so thinking 8:20.

You can tell the organizers are NOT from EAST OAKLAND.

8:30 is TOO EARLY FOR US EAST OAKLANDERS ON A WEEKEND!




Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

oaklander
10-15-2011, 2:33 PM
Just woke up.. sorry, that was a bit too early. Hope it went well.

Yes, wash and nikki were there, and we all split up and checked out different break-out groups. We are going to do an after-action report. There is EPIC behind-the-scenes drama in Oaktown that is essentially OPERATIC in nature. If you think things are gnarly here, Oakland makes this forum look like tinky-winky-land!

I now know some of it, since an actual insider group has taken a liking to me (and me, them).

I will upload a funny video I made - give me a few minutes!


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

Ubermcoupe
10-15-2011, 3:25 PM
Excellent, looking forward to the video! :)

oaklander
10-15-2011, 3:26 PM
They actually DID unveil their new public safety plan!

Here is the main component:

-cVkLdvWgbw

ROFL


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

Flopper
10-15-2011, 4:59 PM
They actually DID unveil their new public safety plan!

Here is the main component:

-cVkLdvWgbw

ROFL


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

That's an Assault Whistle!

It has a wrist thing that goes up!

I'm PANICKING!

Ubermcoupe
10-15-2011, 5:21 PM
GTHO, rape whistle?

5PKVmzdQGwg
:rofl: "someone with an actual gun will come and help you out"

oaklander
10-15-2011, 5:28 PM
That's an Assault Whistle!

It has a wrist thing that goes up!

I'm PANICKING!

ROFL, I got an extra one for Sierra - NOW I feel much better when she is out in public. This 10 cent whistle is SO MUCH better than, say, an LCP.

;-)

IntoForever
10-15-2011, 6:17 PM
I remember hearing somewhere that if you're in trouble to yell fire. No one really wants to help you but if they think they might be in trouble they will come out to see what's going on. I would think that if I was going to do you harm and you blew that irritating whistle, I'd punch it down your throat. Throw the whistle at the perp, grab the shotgun and let them blow the damn thing. At least you'll have a better chance at being safe while armed. I like to learn from the mistakes of others when possible and mexico is a great teacher that gun control is failing.

wash
10-15-2011, 7:51 PM
It is a good goal to try to reduce violence in Oakland but most of the other ideas they had are probably about as effective as the rape whistle.

The major failure is that no one there actually talked about the real problems.

One lady thought the violence in Oakland was due to CIA mind control experiments performed in Oakland.

Now that is just nuts but it's not much worse than blaming it on "the gun show loophole", straw purchases in neighboring states or the "gun lobby".

I heard all of those but I didn't hear about real-estate agents block busting to create defacto segregation, welfare systems that encourage single parent families or the drug epidemic that CIA actually does deserve some blame for.

Some people wanted job creation and that might help but I'm not sure how many gangsters will give up banging to work at McDonalds. The effect on crime would be tangential at best.

So people blame a "gunshow loophole" that doesn't exist in California, straw purchases that are mostly happening in California but no one has the political will to stop and a "gun lobby" with "millions of dollars" which is actually almost exclusively funded by law abiding gun owners that are sick and tired of being blamed for the actions of criminals that are a product of a society that won't acknowledge it's faults.

A whistle is the best idea they can come up with.

oaklander
10-15-2011, 8:31 PM
Yes, I KNOW three things about how the solution will look:

1) it will require a keen understanding of the real causes of violence.

2) it will require what is essentially a marketing effort (both to implement, and then as part of the substantive solution).

3) it will require a BASIC change in perception. Oakland needs to "see" itself in a new light.

One thing that makes me happy is that I am just about exactly strange enough to be a part of the scene here. And I say that with love. Oakland really is a special and magic place. The violent crime does not make Oakland suck. It just gives all of us more work as we move forward to change that.

I always say this (and my wife will verify that it is true). I live in what is considered the most dangerous hood in East Oakland And I have never felt safer, or more welcomed and protected. One thing about Oakland is that the good folks are tight, like a family. You will NEVER see this in the more yuppie parts of SF.

Despite the tragic crime, we still love our town. All of us.


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

SCZ
10-15-2011, 9:35 PM
...We are going to do an after-action report...

Keep us posted when you've got that together please!

trashman
10-15-2011, 9:55 PM
There is EPIC behind-the-scenes drama in Oaktown that is essentially OPERATIC in nature.

All the reports surrounding Batts' departure point to this in spades....I was really stunned at the openly uncomfortable body language that Mayor Quan displayed during Batts' resignation presser.

--Neill

Flopper
10-15-2011, 10:41 PM
Yes, I KNOW three things about how the solution will look:

1) it will require a keen understanding of the real causes of violence.

2) it will require what is essentially a marketing effort (both to implement, and then as part of the substantive solution).

3) it will require a BASIC change in perception. Oakland needs to "see" itself in a new light.

One thing that makes me happy is that I am just about exactly strange enough to be a part of the scene here. And I say that with love. Oakland really is a special and magic place. The violent crime does not make Oakland suck. It just gives all of us more work as we move forward to change that.

I always say this (and my wife will verify that it is true). I live in what is considered the most dangerous hood in East Oakland And I have never felt safer, or more welcomed and protected. One thing about Oakland is that the good folks are tight, like a family. You will NEVER see this in the more yuppie parts of SF.

Despite the tragic crime, we still love our town. All of us.


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

Maybe it's just the other emotional events in my life right now, but. . .

this post was very touching.

oaklander
10-15-2011, 10:43 PM
Maybe it's just the other emotional events in my life right now, but. . .

this post was very touching.

I really do feel at home here. Hard to describe.


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

marcusrn
10-15-2011, 11:19 PM
Oakland and Oaklander are both laudable causes.

"Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait pas". Pascal
"The heart has its reasons , of which reason knows nothing".

oaklander
10-16-2011, 9:00 PM
Oakland and Oaklander are both laudable causes.

"Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connait pas". Pascal
"The heart has its reasons , of which reason knows nothing".

Yes, for me - everything is a moral battle. I have spent the last 25 years trying to show myself, and others - that positive change is possible. As recently as 10 years ago, I thought I was washed up as a person. Even 5 years ago, I held kind of a negative attitude about life. BUT - being an actual part of our civil rights movement has given me (and many others) new hope.

WE ALL HAVE CHANGED THINGS!

And we did it by being, persistant, moral, and right - on one single thing: "No person is perfect, but even imperfect people CAN do good things, and CAN achieve lasting change."


Sent from my brain, to yours. . .

SCZ
10-17-2011, 6:36 PM
...As recently as 10 years ago, I thought I was washed up as a person. Even 5 years ago, I held kind of a negative attitude about life...

I can totally relate to that.

And who was the quote from? I dig it.

oaklander
10-17-2011, 8:03 PM
I can totally relate to that.

And who was the quote from? I dig it.

I think Marcus' quote is from Blaise Pascal. . .

My favorite is "start with what is right, rather than what is acceptable."

That was Kafka. . .

:D