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3dre
10-05-2011, 12:23 AM
Ok so I have a gun rack in the back window of my truck and have been trying to find out if it legal for me to have an unloaded rifle hanging in it while in town while on my way to mountains or the range I have even check with several officers that I know and none have given me a definate answer either way

watsonville
10-05-2011, 12:57 AM
I believe it's ok as long as unloaded and no ammo not in prohibited zones school government buildings etc. But don't quote me on it I've always wanted to get one for my truck but Santa cruz county police would have a field day on me damn libs

Purple K
10-05-2011, 7:30 AM
The State GFSZ law only covers handguns. The Federal GFSZ law covers longguns. Hypothetically, if you never travelled thru a school zone, you could leave it in the gun rack unloaded. Realistically, schools are everywhere! Trigger locks, etc. are not sufficient. To satisfy the Federal GFSZ the weapon must be locked to the rack.

lgm118icbm
10-05-2011, 7:43 AM
Don't go to the post office. Even the parking lot is a no-go.

PsychGuy274
10-05-2011, 8:03 AM
I thought about having a gun rack for all of two seconds. You're INVITING someone to break into your truck. Just sayin'.

paul0660
10-05-2011, 8:07 AM
Don't go to the post office. Even the parking lot is a no-go.

If prominently posted at the entrance and exit.

hammerhands32
10-05-2011, 8:34 AM
Can a person be pulled over to check if the firearm is unloaded?

Hopalong
10-05-2011, 8:40 AM
"The Times, They Are A Changing", Bob Dylan

I remember back in the day when everybody had a gun rack in their truck

Wouldn't risk it now

Who needs the hassle

PsychGuy274
10-05-2011, 8:41 AM
If prominently posted at the entrance and exit.

I believe that's only applicable to private businesses. A post office is federal property and specifically listed as a sensitive zone, hence they don't need to post anything.

Right?

Smokeybehr
10-05-2011, 8:45 AM
How about an LEO-style gun rack with an electric lock, and a key backup in case of power loss? It's still locked, isn't it?

Lethal_addict
10-05-2011, 8:46 AM
Go to www.GunVault.com

johnny_22
10-05-2011, 11:15 AM
My old Dodge pickup truck had a gun rack. Wife and I put our fishing poles in cases on the rack to keep them from being damaged. Not unusual even in Santa Clara County.

But, my "new to me" Ford Ranger will not be getting a gun rack, even though the idea of keeping the fishing poles safe is valid. Attitude has changed over the past 25-30 years.

stix213
10-05-2011, 11:23 AM
Is your gun rack locking?

If you have a "locking gun rack" in your truck, it is also an exemption to the federal gun free zone law, the same as a locked case. Unloaded of course.

paul0660
10-05-2011, 11:39 AM
I believe that's only applicable to private businesses. A post office is federal property and specifically listed as a sensitive zone, hence they don't need to post anything.

Right?

No, not right. Only people have sensitive zones.

Federal facilities (which are specifically buildings, not land): 930(h)

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be
posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility,


USPS specific, 39 CFR Ch. I

(4) A copy of the rules of this section governing conduct on postal
property, including the rules of this paragraph appropriately
highlighted, shall be posted in prominent locations at the public
entrances to postal property

So, no sign, no limitation. Strangely, we do not have to be mind readers.

Also, it is not illegal to have a firearm on school property, locked and cased to satisfy the Federal GFSA, and only handguns must be locked and cased to satisfy California's GFSA. Ammunition is not legal to possess on school property, but is ok in the zone.


And, stix is right, the Federal code mentions both locking cases and locking gun racks.

Burbur
10-05-2011, 11:44 AM
A tool box in the bed is a much more appropriate "gun rack" these days.

Lockable Inconspicuous Multipurpose

choprzrul
10-05-2011, 11:54 AM
Had one of these in my Dodge truck when I lived in Nebraska and really liked it a lot:

http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_220667_999_02?rgn=0,0,2000,1887&scl=3.8095238095238093&fmt=jpeg&id=35fioR7kd-SQC36tPKlUpo

They really help keep the rifles and shotguns up and out of direct line of sight, especially with tinted windows. It is also much easier to egress with gun in hand compared to a back window rack. LINK (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Gun-Storage/Vehicle-Gun-Holders|/pc/104792580/c/104730480/sc/104195880/Big-Sky-Racks-Sky-Bar-Gun-Rack/733785.uts?destination=/catalog/browse/shooting-gun-storage-auto-gun-storage/_/N-1100215)

.

paul0660
10-05-2011, 11:59 AM
I misspoke. We DO have to be mind readers regarding the 1000 ft zone. Those laws specifically mention that notice does NOT have to be given.

dantodd
10-05-2011, 2:55 PM
No, not right. Only people have sensitive zones.

Federal facilities (which are specifically buildings, not land): 930(h)




USPS specific, 39 CFR Ch. I



So, no sign, no limitation. Strangely, we do not have to be mind readers.

Also, it is not illegal to have a firearm on school property, locked and cased to satisfy the Federal GFSA, and only handguns must be locked and cased to satisfy California's GFSA. Ammunition is not legal to possess on school property, but is ok in the zone.


And, stix is right, the Federal code mentions both locking cases and locking gun racks.

Post offices do not have to have signage and the prohibition extends to their parking lots. I do not know how a strip mall lot serving a post office would be treated but I suspect it would be ok unless the lot is actually on post office property.

paul0660
10-05-2011, 3:03 PM
Post offices do not have to have signage and the prohibition extends to their parking lots. I do not know how a strip mall lot serving a post office would be treated but I suspect it would be ok unless the lot is actually on post office property.

dan, what I posted, the post office's rules, say that it does have to be posted.

So..............what the heck do you mean? Your last sentence sort of makes my point. One can park in a lot of places to use the post office, it may not be obvious who "owns" it (most PO property is rented and leased). It needs to be posted. PROMINENTLY. At the entrances and exits.

This is a long standing point of confusion and paranoia.

dantodd
10-05-2011, 3:16 PM
dan, what I posted, the post office's rules, say that it does have to be posted.

So..............what the heck do you mean? Your last sentence sort of makes my point. One can park in a lot of places to use the post office, it may not be obvious who "owns" it (most PO property is rented and leased). It needs to be posted. PROMINENTLY. At the entrances and exits.

This is a long standing point of confusion and paranoia.

While the rules require the postmaster to post a copy of the rules conspicuously it does NOT say that the rules don't apply unless those rules are posted.

Also, you will notice that it says all real property under the charge and control of the postal service. It does not except parking lots and it does not apply only to the actual building. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" as the old saying goes and guns are prohibited regardless of the postmaster's following of the directive to properly post signs.



39 CFR 232.1

Sec. 232.1 Conduct on postal property.

(a) Applicability. This section applies to all real property under
the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies,
and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall
be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property.

...

(l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may
carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
official purposes.

dantodd
10-05-2011, 3:32 PM
Can a person be pulled over to check if the firearm is unloaded?

Yep. And you can count on just that happening.

12031 (e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

I would love to know how many times you can be pulled over in the same car in the same city to be "e checked" before it becomes police harassment.

SwissFluCase
10-05-2011, 3:34 PM
I would love to know how many times you can be pulled over in the same car in the same city to be "e checked" before it becomes police harassment.

Interesting scenario for a test case...

Regards,


SwissFluCase

dantodd
10-05-2011, 3:37 PM
Interesting scenario for a test case...

Regards,


SwissFluCase

I really want to put one in the back window of my minivan, my wife even OK'd it but doesn't want me to have a gun in it all the time. I kinda lost interest when she said that. I guess a minivan with an AR-15 in the window might get a wee bit of police attention. As usual, my wife is probably right.

paul0660
10-05-2011, 4:43 PM
While the rules require the postmaster to post a copy of the rules conspicuously it does NOT say that the rules don't apply unless those rules are posted.


You are in good form tonight. Explain how "it does NOT say that the rules don't apply unless those rules are posted. "

I understand that prior knowledge of the limitations applies. For instance, although the notice is far away from the entrance to my PO, since I know the law I follow it, because prior knowledge of the limitation applies to real time violations of it.

The code expressly says that the code has to be posted. So..............

paul0660
10-05-2011, 4:45 PM
guns are prohibited regardless of the postmaster's following of the directive to properly post signs.


Sorry, I didn't read this until now.

Baloney. Unless it is posted, no one knows where a PO parking lot IS.

dantodd
10-05-2011, 4:50 PM
The code expressly says that the code has to be posted. So..............

What part of the code even suggests that if one part is not followed that the others do not apply?

Do you think that (e) and (f) are also unenforceable if the postmaster doesn't post all of the section conspicuously?

(e) Disturbances. Disorderly conduct, or conduct which creates loud and unusual noise, or which obstructs the usual use of entrances, foyers, corridors, offices, elevators, stairways, and parking lots, or which otherwise tends to impede or disturb the public employees in the performance of their duties, or which otherwise impedes or disturbs the general public in transacting business or obtaining the services provided on property, is prohibited.

(f) Gambling. Participating in games for money or other personal property, the operation of gambling devices, the conduct of a lottery or pool, or the selling or purchasing of lottery tickets, is prohibited on postal premises. This prohibition does not apply to the vending or exchange of State Lottery tickets at vending facilities operated by licensed blind persons where such lotteries are authorized by state law. (See Domestic Mail Manual 123.351 and 123.42; Administrative Support Manual 221.42; Regional Instructions, Part 782, section IV G 2c.)

Of course this is all irrelevant unless you know of any post office that is non-conforming with the code.

The rules clearly say that no guns are permitted on the property. (Contrary to your claim that it only applies to the building.) The rules do NOT say that they are void unless posted. If you are going to make a claim about them not applying then show the code that supports your claim.

BigDogatPlay
10-05-2011, 4:52 PM
Can a person be pulled over to check if the firearm is unloaded?

Speaking as a former LEO, yes... and depending on the locale I can practically guarantee it. :)

To a question farther, an unloaded gun in a locking rack similar to one found in a LEO vehicle would meet all requirements so far as I know. But a gun rack of any kind in a vehicle is so often an invitation to an auto burglary that it hardly seems worth it. I am actually of the same mind as others above... either a tool box in the bed of the truck or (if you have room) one of those purpose made truck vaults for a crew or extended cab.

Out of sight = more better, IMO.

paul0660
10-05-2011, 5:02 PM
The rules clearly say that no guns are permitted on the property. (Contrary to your claim that it only applies to the building.) The rules do NOT say that they are void unless posted. If you are going to make a claim about them not applying then show the code that supports your claim.

Post the postal code regarding firearms.

My post regarding buildings only referenced the Federal code regarding facilites, not specific to the Post Office, which I noted, and was accurate.

dantodd
10-05-2011, 5:15 PM
Post the postal code regarding firearms.


It is in post #20

paul0660
10-05-2011, 5:24 PM
Dan, post 20 includes

This section shall
be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property.

dantodd
10-05-2011, 7:08 PM
Dan, post 20 includes

No where does it say that the rest of the regulation is not valid if the postmaster fails to do so. I agree the postmaster is supposed to post the section. We aren't arguing about that AFAIK. You said that you are ONLY restricted from carry IF it is posted. This is clearly not stated in the statute. While I agree that the postmaster is SUPPOSED to post it conspicuously there is nothing that says you can carry if it isn't so posted. There is nothing that says you can Gamble if that restriction isn't properly posted either. etc. etc. etc. for each ofl the subsections. There is no reason to believe that subsection (l) dealing with firearms and explosives is any different than the others, unless it is expressly spelled out.

So, in short
1) yes it is supposed to be posted
2) no you cannot carry, even in the parking lot if it is controlled by the postal service
3) if the postmaster fails at 1) there is no exception that permits you to 2)

Oceanbob
10-05-2011, 7:19 PM
"The Times, They Are A Changing", Bob Dylan

I remember back in the day when everybody had a gun rack in their truck

Wouldn't risk it now

Who needs the hassle

Had a pick up in college in 1967. Had a .270 Remington in a rack. Tulsa Oklahoma; hunting season we all gathered in the School Parking lot to pack up and caravan up to the woods. Several Teachers/professors were admiring my .270. Guns were being passed around and talked about. No problems, no questions, just normal people who loved guns and hunting.

Heck, back then I carried a .38 in my carry on luggage when flying.


Yes..things are different now...:D

GMG
10-05-2011, 7:42 PM
Used to be popular back in the day............But I think that day has passed.:(

Springfield45
10-05-2011, 9:19 PM
I used to have a gun rack in my truck but I took it off because I do not like to advertise my guns to thieves and rookie cops.


Sent by my toaster.

choprzrul
10-05-2011, 11:39 PM
Had a pick up in college in 1967. Had a .270 Remington in a rack. Tulsa Oklahoma; hunting season we all gathered in the School Parking lot to pack up and caravan up to the woods. Several Teachers/professors were admiring my .270. Guns were being passed around and talked about. No problems, no questions, just normal people who loved guns and hunting.

Heck, back then I carried a .38 in my carry on luggage when flying.


Yes..things are different now...:D

Growing up in rural Nebraska, I got my school permit @ 14 to drive my younger brother and I to school. Most days during November and December the 12 gauge rode along in case we seen pheasants getting gravel in the morning. Don't think we even locked the car door while in school....

.

cmaynes
10-06-2011, 2:26 PM
its not a fashion accessory-

out of sight- out of mind....

dantodd
10-06-2011, 3:07 PM
its not a fashion accessory-




No, it's an exercise in free speech.

taperxz
10-06-2011, 3:13 PM
No, it's an exercise in free speech.

More importantly is a good/lawful way to to carry your rifles in non prohibited areas! :D

dantodd
10-06-2011, 3:17 PM
More importantly is a good/lawful way to to carry your rifles in non prohibited areas! :D

That too. But I can't really make the argument that it is more readily accessible in the rear window of my mini-van than some other possible places. :)

taperxz
10-06-2011, 3:23 PM
That too. But I can't really make the argument that it is more readily accessible in the rear window of my mini-van than some other possible places. :)

For those applications you need to check out Cabelas!! They have many useful racks for different applications;)

I still have rifle racks in my ranch trucks and use them all the time. Beats those things sliding around on the seats and back and forth between the door and the stick shift.

6172crew
10-06-2011, 3:27 PM
Having a Fun rack is like having a bunch of high end Stereo stickers in your back window. Your asking for a thief to break in.

I run a calguns and NRA sticker on my truck so I'm not one to point fingers :)

Mstrty
10-06-2011, 3:43 PM
Having a Fun rack is like having a bunch of high end Stereo stickers in your back window. Your asking for a thief to break in.

I run a calguns and NRA sticker on my truck so I'm not one to point fingers :)

You also might want ot remove that Honda emblem from your trunk lid. I hear those Honda's are much sought after by car thieves. :eyeroll:

No! I dont ask thieves to break in. They commit felonies without me asking. :mad:

Yes I got your sarcasm, I hope you understood mine. Getting tired of altering my behavior because of a few bad apples.