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jdberger
10-03-2011, 10:41 AM
With all the kerfuffle over Sunnyvale - it's instructive to remember who the real enemies of Liberty are. I recieved the following from State Sen. Mark Leno (D-3) (http://senweb03.senate.ca.gov/focus/outreach/sd03/sd03-ealert-20110929.asp) a few minutes ago.

Keeping illegally possessed guns off our streets is critical to public safety
By Senator Mark Leno

One of the most important measures we can take to protect public safety is to keep firearms out of the hands of people who are prohibited from owning them due to criminal activity or mental illness. Unfortunately, there are more than 18,000 convicted felons and mentally ill persons in California who illegally possess their firearms, and this list grows by about 15 to 20 people each day. In the Bay Area alone, more than 2,500 people who once made legal purchases of guns now own them illegally due to subsequent issues that disqualify them from possessing weapons.

Although California is the first and only state in the nation to build an automated system for tracking handgun and assault weapon owners who pose a threat to public safety, the state needs additional resources to keep up with the growing number of illegally possessed firearms. With only 20 agents statewide specifically tasked with disarming individuals that have lost the right to own a gun, state and local law enforcement officials simply do not have the human resources or funding necessary to confiscate the enormous backlog of weapons, nor can they keep up with the daily influx of newly-prohibited persons.

To deal with this problem, I introduced Senate Bill 819, which addresses this troubling blind spot in our enforcement of firearms laws. SB 819 allows the California Department of Justice (DOJ) to use existing resources to enhance the identification and confiscation of handguns and assault weapons that are owned by convicted felons and mentally ill persons. The bill, which is sponsored by California Attorney General Kamala D. Harris, passed the Legislature and is now on Governor Jerry's Brown's desk. The Governor has until October 9 to take action on the bill.

SB 819 authorizes the DOJ to use funds from the Dealer Record of Sale account, which is made up of fees collected on gun purchases and transfers, to enforce the department's existing Armed Prohibited Persons System (APPS) program. The APPS program maintains information about persons who legally purchased and registered firearms but who have since been prohibited from possessing them. This additional funding will provide the DOJ, in collaboration with local law enforcement, the resources needed to track individuals on the APPS list and take more of these illegally possessed weapons off the streets.

Innocent lives have been lost because we allow guns to be in the hands of known criminals, gang members and people who have serious mental illnesses. I am very proud to have worked closely with the Attorney General in drafting SB 819. Giving law enforcement officials the tools they need to confiscate dangerous weapons is a crucial step in the ongoing effort to protect our communities.

Senator Mark Leno represents the Third Senate District of California, which includes portions of San Francisco and Sonoma Counties and all of Marin County. www.senate.ca.gov/Leno



We waste our energy lambasting folks who aren't actively out to hurt us.

jdberger
10-03-2011, 10:42 AM
Wait - did he just say that there is a "right to own a gun"?

MatrixCPA
10-03-2011, 10:48 AM
The irony being that only those who legally obtained their firearms in the first place are targeted. I'm pretty confident that the number of prohibited people who possess firearms illegally that also obtained them illegally is much greater than the first group.

mag360
10-03-2011, 10:51 AM
He also said we are a risk to public safety. :smash:

" tracking handgun and assault weapon owners who pose a threat to public safety"

Leno and Kevin DeLeon or "KDL" as he is sneered at in the capital, are the worst of the worst.

cmaynes
10-03-2011, 11:16 AM
ugh....

hawk1
10-03-2011, 11:32 AM
And the rebuttal from the foundation, pointing out why the governor should veto this, has been printed where?...:confused:

wildhawker
10-03-2011, 12:12 PM
And the rebuttal from the foundation, pointing out why the governor should veto this, has been printed where?...:confused:

The Foundation can only limitedly lobby as it is a 501(c)3 - as opposed to 501(c)4 - non-profit organization. I'm confident that appropriate lobbying organizations, such as CRPA, NRA, and GOC, have made every possible effort to keep this bill from going into law. However, often in California we find that the very best of efforts simply aren't enough to overcome the inherent politics of the issue. In such case, no letter from the Foundation would make a difference anyway.

We're not winning or losing (as a cause) on the basis of lack of coverage or effort, and CGF must apply scarce resources and time (especially as applied to lobbying) very carefully.

-Brandon

Ubermcoupe
10-03-2011, 12:19 PM
Where is the evidence to support 18000 convicted felons in possession with 15 - 20 added everyday? :rolleyes:

WOW...

nicki
10-03-2011, 12:34 PM
When an individual gets convicted of a crime, the police can tap the DOJ records and find out if they have legally owned guns.

The court can also tell an individual that they have XXX amount of time to reliquish, transfer or sell arms that they can no longer legally own.

While I don't like our rights being violated, the reality is I don't want bad people to have guns.

Leno is against gun rights, but perhaps we could approach him on a more workable solution that both of us could agree on.

Nicki

donw
10-03-2011, 12:57 PM
don't they realize they CREATE more problems than they solve?

silly me...i forgot we're talking about legislators...:wacko:

Gryff
10-03-2011, 1:01 PM
Obviously, this pinhead doesn't understand what an illegal tax is.

cheesy
10-03-2011, 1:10 PM
Unfortunately, there are more than 18,000 convicted felons and mentally ill persons in California who illegally possess their firearms, and this list grows by about 15 to 20 people each day.

State and local law enforcement officials simply do not have the human resources or funding necessary to confiscate the enormous backlog of weapons.

By Senator Mark Leno

Thank you for writing my good cause statement?

CCWFacts
10-03-2011, 1:57 PM
Actually improving their systems to make sure that DQed people can't buy guns and have their guns removed from them is one of the few things that's a good idea. The Virginia Tech shooter would have had another barrier to getting a gun if their databases had been linked better. Of course people can buy stuff illegally but the more obstacles there are the better it's going to be.

My view is that people should be required to have a BG check on all transactions, but upon passing that check, pretty much any individual (non-crew-served) weapon should be available.

bwiese
10-03-2011, 2:13 PM
I'm not sure, but I think it may have been Leno that allowed the added single-shot exemption to move up the line, way back when he was an Assemblyman.

And y'all know what we're doing with single-shottedness.

taperxz
10-03-2011, 2:22 PM
The fact remains that even if someone convicted were in a data base, told to surrender their firearms, and even searched by LE, If no guns are found there won't be anything to confiscate.

In other words, friends and or family can simply take them, or the felon can say he sold them many moons ago and still retain them physically. If he gets caught with a firearm after the fact its no different than if this law was in effect or not.

DVSmith
10-03-2011, 2:23 PM
I would support this if it were not for the ever expanding definition of prohibited persons. It won't be too much longer before a jay walking ticket will get you prohibited status the way the legislature is going.

taperxz
10-03-2011, 2:28 PM
I would support this if it were not for the ever expanding definition of prohibited persons. It won't be too much longer before a jay walking ticket will get you prohibited status the way the legislature is going.

What good will this law do? A felon that wants to keep guns will still keep guns. Just because some agency has a data base doesn't mean a felon wont keep a firearm thats not in their data base.

DVSmith
10-03-2011, 2:50 PM
What good will this law do? A felon that wants to keep guns will still keep guns. Just because some agency has a data base doesn't mean a felon wont keep a firearm thats not in their data base.

I guess you could use that argument for a very significant number of the laws we have on the books. I see it as a marginal improvement to allow correlation between known prohibited persons and information that they owned a firearm at some point in time.

My problem is really with the ever expanding universe of prohibited persons.

Gray Peterson
10-03-2011, 3:10 PM
The reality is that SB819 is about illegal co-mingling of funds up to this date, and they want to use lawful firearms possession fees as a way to go after all gun owners. They should get their money through the general appropriation process, not on our backs.

Connor P Price
10-03-2011, 3:27 PM
The reality is that SB819 is about illegal co-mingling of funds up to this date, and they want to use lawful firearms possession fees as a way to go after all gun owners. They should get their money through the general appropriation process, not on our backs.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

To those that are thinking that this isn't a problem because there's nothing wrong with taking guns from prohibited persons, you've gotta look a bit deeper for the actual issue. The problem isn't that they want to take once lawfully owned guns from people who have now become prohibited persons, the problem is that they are requesting to use misappropriated funds to do so in order to effectively charge gun owners for enforcement of the law rather than charging the general coffers.

It may very well be true that its perfectly lawful and acceptable to create a program that takes guns away from people after they become prohibited. It's also likely to be lawful to have a dros fee in order to recoup the costs of implementing a background check system. However there's no way its constitutional to overcharge for the dros fee like they have and then later down the road decide they will use the money to fund law enforcement.

huntercf
10-03-2011, 3:46 PM
Keep in mind that if this passes the legislatures will jack up the DROS fees to help pay for other things. I bet this is just a test case to see how much they can get away with and if it does pass they will increase the DROS tax so high that very few will be able to afford a gun purchase. This was done with speeding tickets, the fine is only about 30% of the actual cost of the ticket the rest are fees to pay for various gov't services.

CMonfort
10-03-2011, 3:52 PM
Keep in mind that if this passes the NRA's federal lawsuit (Bauer v. Harris) will be amended to include a challenge to the statutory amendments in SB 819.

wash
10-03-2011, 3:54 PM
Yep, they want to use DROS fees that only gun purchasers pay to enforce laws that apply to everyone.

It's not fair and DROS fees were never intended to do anything except pay for background checks and I think handgun registration.

fd15k
10-03-2011, 3:58 PM
Wait, so they had resources to arrest, prosecute and incarcerate mentioned persons, but they had no resources to check for firearms violations at that time ?

Wherryj
10-03-2011, 4:01 PM
Where is the evidence to support 18000 convicted felons in possession with 15 - 20 added everyday? :rolleyes:

WOW...

Perhaps this is the as yet undiscovered part of Fast and Furious where the ATF gave guns to felons who were in the US LEGALLY?

DVSmith
10-03-2011, 4:15 PM
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!

To those that are thinking that this isn't a problem because there's nothing wrong with taking guns from prohibited persons, you've gotta look a bit deeper for the actual issue. The problem isn't that they want to take once lawfully owned guns from people who have now become prohibited persons, the problem is that they are requesting to use misappropriated funds to do so in order to effectively charge gun owners for enforcement of the law rather than charging the general coffers.

It may very well be true that its perfectly lawful and acceptable to create a program that takes guns away from people after they become prohibited. It's also likely to be lawful to have a dros fee in order to recoup the costs of implementing a background check system. However there's no way its constitutional to overcharge for the dros fee like they have and then later down the road decide they will use the money to fund law enforcement.

If you are going to object to the shuffling of funds from one program to another, this seems the least egregious example you could have come up with. This years budget is full of this BS and it didn't start there, it has been going on for years.

wildhawker
10-03-2011, 4:43 PM
The reality is that SB819 is about illegal co-mingling of funds up to this date, and they want to use lawful firearms possession fees as a way to go after all gun owners. They should get their money through the general appropriation process, not on our backs.

This.

Ford8N
10-03-2011, 4:48 PM
Although California is the first and only state in the nation to build an automated system for tracking handgun and assault weapon owners who pose a threat to public safety, the state needs additional resources to keep up with the growing number of illegally possessed firearms.



Please quit implying that I'm a POTENTIAL CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BigDogatPlay
10-03-2011, 4:52 PM
To deal with this problem, I introduced Senate Bill 819, which addresses this troubling blind spot in our enforcement of firearms laws. SB 819 allows the California Department of Justice (DOJ) to use existing resources to enhance the identification and confiscation of handguns and assault weapons that are owned by convicted felons and mentally ill persons.

Yeeeeep... another use for DROS fees being ginned up right there.

sofbak
10-03-2011, 7:49 PM
To deal with this problem, I introduced Senate Bill 819, which addresses this troubling blind spot in our enforcement of firearms laws. SB 819 allows the California Department of Justice (DOJ) to use existing resources to enhance the identification and confiscation of handguns and assault weapons that are owned by convicted felons and mentally ill persons.

Yeeeeep... another use for DROS fees being ginned up right there.

You know where this is going. If this bill passes, it won't be long before the surplus in the DROS fund is drained, and then what? They raise the DROS fees to cover the typical lib-tard over spending......all in the good name of fighting crime.