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huntercf
10-01-2011, 10:25 PM
Ok this is probably not the first time but I have a hypothetical question. If someone had some rebuild kits and lent them to a LEO friend and the LEO assembled a high cap mag and then took the friend to a range I'm sure it would be legal for the LEO to use but what about the friend who is with them?

ke6guj
10-01-2011, 10:37 PM
I don't see why it wouldn't be legal for the LEO to lend, at the range a large-cap mag, provided that the LEO is just lending it to him that way, and will be getting it back before they leave the range. At that point the LEO could turn the mag back into parts and give it them back to whom he got them from.

Librarian
10-01-2011, 10:38 PM
ETA Phooey. Ke6guj points out I was entirely wrong, and PC12020(b)(30)(B) does, in fact,allow LEO to manufacture. Obviously, too late for me!

OTOH, any legally possessed large-capacity magazine may be lent to any [not-ineligible] CA resident, so long as the lender stays nearby; the typical example is 'use at a single range session'.

9mmdude
10-02-2011, 6:28 AM
Ok this is probably not the first time but I have a hypothetical question. If someone had some rebuild kits and lent them to a LEO friend and the LEO assembled a high cap mag and then took the friend to a range I'm sure it would be legal for the LEO to use but what about the friend who is with them?

The LEO can lend the friend hi-caps to use at the range while he is present.

Quiet
10-02-2011, 6:42 AM
Ok this is probably not the first time but I have a hypothetical question. If someone had some rebuild kits and lent them to a LEO friend and the LEO assembled a high cap mag and then took the friend to a range I'm sure it would be legal for the LEO to use but what about the friend who is with them?

Friend giving/lending magazine parts to LEO = legal. magazine parts are not regulated.
LEO using those parts to make a large capacity magazine = legal. [PC 12020(b)(30)(B)]
LEO loaning the large capacity magazine to the friend, while they are both at a range = legal. [PC 12020(b)(22)]
LEO giving/lending the large capacity magazine to the friend, when they are not together = illegal. [PC 12020(a)(2)]
LEO dissassembling large magazine into parts and giving the parts back to friend = legal. magazine parts are not regulated.



Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(22) The loan of a lawfully possessed large-capacity magazine between two individuals if all of the following conditions are met:
(A) The person being loaned the large-capacity magazine is not prohibited by Section 12021, 12021.1, or 12101 of this code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code from possessing firearms or ammunition.
(B) The loan of the large-capacity magazine occurs at a place or location where the possession of the large-capacity magazine is not otherwise prohibited and the person who lends the large-capacity magazine remains in the accessible vicinity of the person to whom the large-capacity magazine is loaned.
(30)(B) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for use by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

huntercf
10-02-2011, 6:44 AM
(30)(A) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for any federal, state, county, city and county, or city agency that is charged with the enforcement of any law, for use by agency employees in the discharge of their official duties whether on or off duty, and where the use is authorized by the agency and is within the course and scope of their duties.
(B) The manufacture of a large-capacity magazine for use by a sworn peace officer as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who is authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of his or her duties.

Copied from another post by ke6guj. It looks like they are able to manufacter because it doesn't have a prohibition on where they get the parts from.

huntercf
10-02-2011, 6:48 AM
Ok, now for the monkey wrench. It looks legal, but I think it would still be illegal for the non-leo to put that magazine in a non-featureless rifle. I don't want this thread to get anyone in trouble.

bwiese
10-02-2011, 7:29 AM
Ok, now for the monkey wrench. It looks legal, but I think it would still be illegal for the non-leo to put that magazine in a non-featureless rifle.

Um, kinda - if the non-featureless semiauto centerfire rifle has a magazine lock.

In such case, this triggers illegal/prohibited status if a maglock is present.

If a maglock is not present on a semiauto centerfire rifle with characteristic features, the gun is already generally prohibited/illegal - and addition of a over-10rd magazine will not make it "any more illegal".

Now, a over-10rd magazine can indeed legally be used anyone (providing mag lawfully possessed/aquired) in a semiauto centerfire rifle having no 'characteristic features' (i.e, a conventionally-stocked Mini14 or M1A, for example) and can be legally detachable (i.e., no maglock present).

The above is irrelevant if the semiauto rifle in question is specially registered as an "AW".

This is a separate part of law (restricting certain semiauto firearms per PC 12276.1) that is not really 'magazine law' (in PC 12020(c)...).

Neither regular person nor LEO can violate 12276.1/12280...

ap3572001
10-02-2011, 7:38 AM
This is interesting. I am an LEO . I shoot at the public range at least twice a week. With all kinds people I know and all kinds of guns and magazines.

As I said in several discussions before, a possesion and use of a high capacity magazine in California is legal . How You got it is a different story.

To me the whole thing makes no sense. Many people make a big deal out of it.

I am sorry to say, but MANY people still do not understand the whole thing about magazines.

huntercf
10-02-2011, 7:49 AM
This is interesting. I am an LEO . I shoot at the public range at least twice a week. With all kinds people I know and all kinds of guns and magazines.

As I said in several discussions before, a possesion and use of a high capacity magazine in California is legal . How You got it is a different story.

To me the whole thing makes no sense. Many people make a big deal out of it.

I am sorry to say, but MANY people still do not understand the whole thing about magazines.

High cap mags are legal for you to use but if you are at the range with a non-leo buddy and he has an AR15 (BB not registered as AW) with a pistol grip, collapsable stock, etc. and you hand him a 30 rd mag to use, is he now violating the law when he puts it in his rifle?

ap3572001
10-02-2011, 7:57 AM
High cap mags are legal for you to use but if you are at the range with a non-leo buddy and he has an AR15 (BB not registered as AW) with a pistol grip, collapsable stock, etc. and you hand him a 30 rd mag to use, is he now violating the law when he puts it in his rifle?
See . This is what I mean. We take magazine subject and go right to the AW issues....

To answer Your question. YES HE IS.

And someone at range would have to run up to Him and question His weapon.

I have never seen it happen.

When I am shooting at the range, there are all kinds people , with all kinds of guns.

The VERY last thing I would do , is to question their firearms.

Believe me , I tried to shine some light on this topic before.

Most people have no clue..... Its too bad.

huntercf
10-02-2011, 8:10 AM
Thanks for clarifying.

bwiese
10-02-2011, 8:12 AM
High cap mags are legal for you to use but if you are at the range with a non-leo buddy and he has an AR15 (BB not registered as AW) with a pistol grip, collapsable stock, etc. and you hand him a 30 rd mag to use, is he now violating the law when he puts it in his rifle?

YES.

FELONY.

A 12276.1PC-prohibited semiauto rifle configuration exists when such mag is inserted.

ap3572001
10-02-2011, 8:20 AM
Posession and use of ANY high capacity magazines. How You got the magazines. Using those magazines in rifles equiped with a BB . Are all different topics.

jeep7081
10-02-2011, 8:28 AM
Posession and use of ANY high capacity magazines. How You got the magazines. Using those magazines in rifles equiped with a BB . Are all different topics.

Agree. I am thankful dad had an AR15 when I was a kid. :D

Librarian
10-02-2011, 11:37 AM
Asked and answered.

See link to magazine questions in my .sig