PDA

View Full Version : What are the 2012 Republican Canidates position on 2A?


cuinmysights
10-01-2011, 7:47 PM
The only one I've read anything on is Romney and it wasn't positive.

Feedback appreciated.

Tier One Arms
10-01-2011, 8:19 PM
Vote Ron Paul, GOA A+

nicki
10-02-2011, 3:38 PM
Romney is for the 2A until the wind shifts.

Perry has shown by deeds he supports 2A and he carries himself. IMHO he should carry a bigger gun(380:eek:). I thought someone from Texas would carry at least a .45

Paul: Defender of not only the second amendment, but the rest of the bill of rights as well.

Johnson: Like Ron Paul, his heir apparent.

Bachmann. Don't know

Cain, questionable.

Huntsman, says he is our friend

Gingrich, says he is our friend

Santorum. Pro 2a, but hostile to rest of bill of rights.

Christie, potentially worse than Obama.

Nicki

Doheny
10-02-2011, 4:03 PM
Good review, Nicki

cuinmysights
10-02-2011, 4:43 PM
I read this article from GunReports.com concerning Romney titled 'Romney Tramples the 2nd Amendment' written August 11, 2011.

Granted this is one article, but I would sure like to see something more recent on his change of heart. Can you point me in that direction? Thanks.

Ubermcoupe
10-02-2011, 5:26 PM
...IMHO he should carry a bigger gun(380:eek:). I thought someone from Texas would carry at least a .45...

Sizism in action :D - J/K

I am not to impressed with any of the legislation under any particular candidate. From where I sit RP is about 2A and Perry is close. The other candidates are, IMHO, "2A for the vote" :(

BigDogatPlay
10-02-2011, 5:28 PM
A few thumbnails from my own research for what it's worth. Putting a candidates name into a Yahoo or (evil)Google search with 'and gun rights' will yield a wide range of information. Below are my interpretations, and I heartily recommend that each of us do our own research and make our own decisions.

** Romney joined NRA as a life member in 2007, largely as a political expediency. Proclaimed himself a "lifelong hunter" and was exposed as less than forthright. He is most certainly no friend of ours on things like EBR, from his actions as governor and public statements.

** Ron Paul is pro 2A in his own words, however he voted against elements of PLCAA which forbid suing gun manufacturers and voted to require NICS check on all gun show transfers. Some of his statements leading up to Heller were less than profound, IMO.

** Gary Johnson's position is more the true libertarian take, with essentially no restrictions. I can't find anything he did as governor of New Mexico that we would not, as a single issue group, object to on point.

** Jon Huntsman had an embarrassing gaffe recently on a radio interview where he indicated he would sign an AW ban. He corrected himself almost immediately, but it makes me ponder. He is very much a one worlder and a hardcore China-phile. Anyone that enamored of how the Chinese do things makes the hairs on my neck twitch.

** Michele Bachmann, is a co-sponsor of H.R.197&S.845 for national LTC. has co-sponsored legislation to make BATFE more accountable. Co-sponsored legislation to bring the city government of Washington DC to heel and forbid that government from creating any regulation or ordinance that infringes on 2A. She is a friend of ours, to be sure.

** Rick Santorum is something of a mixed bag. He voted against the manufacturers lawsuit prohibition before he voted in favor of it, don't know yet if that was procedural or to get something else done. That's always the hard part of deciphering Congressional votes. He voted against NICS checks on gun show transfers. He voted to increase sentencing enhancements on drug violations involving use of firearms. He sounds like a friend of ours on the stump, but since his entire political career has been as a legislator one must always be careful not to trust too much.

** Herman Cain says he is strongly supportive of 2A rights. His statements to Wolf Blitzer in an interview last June are the closest thing I can find in a few minute's research to a record. I've not researched him as deeply as I have the more mainstream candidates. His answers, at that time, were somewhat evasive and when pinned down on it he said it's a matter for state and local government. Political inexperience, or evadng the question so as not to antagonize a potential base of support with a bad answer?

** Rick Perry is pro 2A, pro LTC and unquestioned on either matter. Perhaps the only more purely pro 2A Republican out there is Sarah Palin. On the single issue of gun rights, Governor Perry is the best friend we have in the race. On many other issues, he is a walking disaster.

** Newt Gingrich is the biggedst question mark. He went from an 'A' rating from GOA in 1994, to a 'D' rating after he became Speaker in 1995. It was his Republican majority leadership in Congress that gave us the federal GFSZ. That bill also contained the hated Lautenberg Amendment... Mr. Newt voted for it, saying that Mr. Lautenberg's folly was "a very reasonable position". Now that he is running for president, he's saying all the things on 2A that we like to hear, but his record in Congress is a mixed bag at best.

kf6tac
10-02-2011, 5:32 PM
I've not done extensive research into this, but I believe Ron Paul wrote something a few years back in the wake of the Kelo v. New London decision implying that while he is an avid defender of the Bill of Rights against federal encroachment, he believes that incorporation is a phony doctrine and that the solution to encroachments by state governments is to vote out bad state politicians, not to provide recourse in federal court.

NotEnoughGuns
10-02-2011, 6:07 PM
In an interview with John Stossel, Ron paul said we should be able to own machine guns. FTW!

cuinmysights
10-02-2011, 6:51 PM
Thank you for taking your time and research efforts to share with us your insights on the republican candidates currently seeking the nomination.

You've provided much food for thought and investigation for me to do.

I really appreciate your input.

626Tony
10-03-2011, 6:05 PM
all calgunners should be verified voters !! this way crappy bills wont pass in out state and fed govt. Disband the Brady campaign! Veto and get rid of that CA roster! to start!

Don'tBlink
11-21-2011, 2:56 PM
Gingrich, says he is our friend


Nicki

http://www.nationalgunrights.org/the-inconvenient-truth-about-newt/

Is nationalgunrights.org a legitimate pro gun organization?

Newt concerns me. He seems to have been on both sides of a lot of issues.

jorgyusa
11-21-2011, 3:19 PM
At a recent GS2AC event Alan Gottlieb responded to questions on Cain's 2A position. He said that although Cain's mouth doesn't always get it out right, he is strongly(ideologically) with us. He is not an experienced slick politician with the ability to deliver all the right "weasel" words when being interviewed. Refreshing, I would say.

In general I think most of the candidates will not hurt us. Some for ideological reasons and others because it would not benefit them politically.

Personally I will vote for Cain in the primary and "Anybody But Obama" in the general election. Not that it really makes a difference in this state.

wildhawker
11-21-2011, 6:00 PM
I agree with this with a few caveats and thoughts:

* Romney is including some good people as advisors, and while I don't believe he's "pro-2A" like we are, he's smart enough to know that he needs to move towards us and respect the issue.

* Ron Paul is a mixed bag. He has it right on a lot of issues, but wildly wrong on others. His 2A stance is not conclusively good for 2A, and I don't think he's at all close to electable.

* Johnson is a solid pro-2A (and pro-liberty/OPM) and the person I'd most like to see win, which means he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

* Cain has yet to really develop a cogent message, and with little experience to judge, it's inconclusive if he's really a friend or just a politico. That said, I trust Alan Go's take on him.

* I trust Newt as far as I can throw him.

-Brandon

A few thumbnails from my own research for what it's worth. Putting a candidates name into a Yahoo or (evil)Google search with 'and gun rights' will yield a wide range of information. Below are my interpretations, and I heartily recommend that each of us do our own research and make our own decisions.

** Romney joined NRA as a life member in 2007, largely as a political expediency. Proclaimed himself a "lifelong hunter" and was exposed as less than forthright. He is most certainly no friend of ours on things like EBR, from his actions as governor and public statements.

** Ron Paul is pro 2A in his own words, however he voted against elements of PLCAA which forbid suing gun manufacturers and voted to require NICS check on all gun show transfers. Some of his statements leading up to Heller were less than profound, IMO.

** Gary Johnson's position is more the true libertarian take, with essentially no restrictions. I can't find anything he did as governor of New Mexico that we would not, as a single issue group, object to on point.

** Jon Huntsman had an embarrassing gaffe recently on a radio interview where he indicated he would sign an AW ban. He corrected himself almost immediately, but it makes me ponder. He is very much a one worlder and a hardcore China-phile. Anyone that enamored of how the Chinese do things makes the hairs on my neck twitch.

** Michele Bachmann, is a co-sponsor of H.R.197&S.845 for national LTC. has co-sponsored legislation to make BATFE more accountable. Co-sponsored legislation to bring the city government of Washington DC to heel and forbid that government from creating any regulation or ordinance that infringes on 2A. She is a friend of ours, to be sure.

** Rick Santorum is something of a mixed bag. He voted against the manufacturers lawsuit prohibition before he voted in favor of it, don't know yet if that was procedural or to get something else done. That's always the hard part of deciphering Congressional votes. He voted against NICS checks on gun show transfers. He voted to increase sentencing enhancements on drug violations involving use of firearms. He sounds like a friend of ours on the stump, but since his entire political career has been as a legislator one must always be careful not to trust too much.

** Herman Cain says he is strongly supportive of 2A rights. His statements to Wolf Blitzer in an interview last June are the closest thing I can find in a few minute's research to a record. I've not researched him as deeply as I have the more mainstream candidates. His answers, at that time, were somewhat evasive and when pinned down on it he said it's a matter for state and local government. Political inexperience, or evadng the question so as not to antagonize a potential base of support with a bad answer?

** Rick Perry is pro 2A, pro LTC and unquestioned on either matter. Perhaps the only more purely pro 2A Republican out there is Sarah Palin. On the single issue of gun rights, Governor Perry is the best friend we have in the race. On many other issues, he is a walking disaster.

** Newt Gingrich is the biggedst question mark. He went from an 'A' rating from GOA in 1994, to a 'D' rating after he became Speaker in 1995. It was his Republican majority leadership in Congress that gave us the federal GFSZ. That bill also contained the hated Lautenberg Amendment... Mr. Newt voted for it, saying that Mr. Lautenberg's folly was "a very reasonable position". Now that he is running for president, he's saying all the things on 2A that we like to hear, but his record in Congress is a mixed bag at best.

dantodd
11-21-2011, 6:25 PM
Aren't all politicians in favor of OPM?

Kid Stanislaus
11-21-2011, 6:40 PM
** Rick Perry is pro 2A, pro LTC and unquestioned on either matter. Perhaps the only more purely pro 2A Republican out there is Sarah Palin. On the single issue of gun rights, Governor Perry is the best friend we have in the race. On many other issues, he is a walking disaster.

Perry is also a super religious whacko, he scares the snot out of me.

Kid Stanislaus
11-21-2011, 6:42 PM
I've not done extensive research into this, but I believe Ron Paul wrote something a few years back in the wake of the Kelo v. New London decision implying that while he is an avid defender of the Bill of Rights against federal encroachment, he believes that incorporation is a phony doctrine and that the solution to encroachments by state governments is to vote out bad state politicians, not to provide recourse in federal court.

I think he has a valid point but the truth of the matter is those "bad state politicians" were voted into office by people who didn't think they were bad at all. Incorporation is the ONLY way we'll get our right respected by the states.

Kid Stanislaus
11-21-2011, 6:45 PM
all calgunners should be verified voters !! this way crappy bills wont pass in out state and fed govt. Disband the Brady campaign! Veto and get rid of that CA roster! to start!

Its always nice to hear from one of our more articulate members. :facepalm:

Kid Stanislaus
11-21-2011, 6:49 PM
Ron Paul is a mixed bag. He has it right on a lot of issues, but wildly wrong on others. His 2A stance is not conclusively good for 2A, and I don't think he's at all close to electable.

Obama would chew him up and spit'm out. Can you imagine Paul and Obama in a televised debate?:rolleyes:

nicki
11-21-2011, 9:28 PM
I would love to see that debate, especially when talking about the deficits and things like crony capitalism.

If Ron Paul captures the republican nomination, he will defeat Obama. Currently Paul is doing well in both Iowa and New Hampshire.

The issue in the next election is the economy, Ron Paul is the only candidate who is being honest about the problem and he has a 30 year track record that is consistent,

Ron Paul tells us what we need to hear, even if we don't want to hear it.

Ron Paul is beating Obama among independents and many dems are going to cross over because of the endless wars and Obama's stabbing the marijuana movement in the back.

Nicki

PsychGuy274
11-22-2011, 4:26 AM
Perry is also a super religious whacko, he scares the snot out of me.

While that's true I think Santorum is worse, BY FAR

OleCuss
11-22-2011, 5:12 AM
So far as I'm concerned, I'm really not overly concerned about what the candidates think about the RKBA. Generally speaking, they aren't going to introduce pro-RKBA legislation and they'll likely go along with the RKBA-related legislation which is passed by the Congress.

What I am concerned about is the quality of their nominees to the US Supreme Court. If they are going to appoint originalists to SCOTUS the POTUS can be rabidly anti-RKBA him/herself and I just won't worry overly much about it.

Spare me the "Wise Latina" and the Obama lawyer who won't recuse herself on a case in which she cheered on the legislation in question.

Give me a few more like Clarence Thomas and I'll be satisfied.

ParadigmGuy
11-22-2011, 7:12 AM
I* Ron Paul is a mixed bag. He has it right on a lot of issues, but wildly wrong on others. His 2A stance is not conclusively good for 2A, and I don't think he's at all close to electable.
How is he not electable? If we vote for him, he will be electable.

Obama would chew him up and spit'm out. Can you imagine Paul and Obama in a televised debate?:rolleyes:
Seriously? Do you think that Obama's advisors will be able to tell him what to say fast enough?

I would love to see that debate, especially when talking about the deficits and things like crony capitalism.

If Ron Paul captures the republican nomination, he will defeat Obama. Currently Paul is doing well in both Iowa and New Hampshire.

The issue in the next election is the economy, Ron Paul is the only candidate who is being honest about the problem and he has a 30 year track record that is consistent,

Ron Paul tells us what we need to hear, even if we don't want to hear it.

Ron Paul is beating Obama among independents and many dems are going to cross over because of the endless wars and Obama's stabbing the marijuana movement in the back.

Nicki
+1

Mesa Tactical
11-22-2011, 7:27 AM
It's a pretty academic discussion in California, all of whose Electoral College votes will be going to the Democratic candidate.

For that reason, everyone really should vote their conscience.

OleCuss
11-22-2011, 7:44 AM
Not sure you are right.

Ron Paul is certainly not my candidate, but if by some miracle he won the Republican nomination I consider it possible that he could win California.

wildhawker
11-22-2011, 7:49 AM
Mesa is correct re electoral college.

dfletcher
11-22-2011, 8:33 AM
A observation based not on individual positions but politics in general.

A 2nd term President Obama need not worry about subsequent renomination by his party nor re-election, he is free to pursue an agenda and do as allowed. A first term Republican needs to be concerned about both those eventualities.

On the other hand, if we're screwed by the first term (2012) Republican President who are we going to turn to - the 2016 Democratic Party nominee?

Finally, a Democratic President pushing for gun control has to convince Republicans to go along and that can be a tough sell. A Republican President has more influence with his own party and doesn't have to push the Democrats to much to go along.

Again, just generalities.

ParadigmGuy
11-22-2011, 9:09 AM
It hasn't always been that way. And it doesn't have to be that way next year.

safewaysecurity
11-22-2011, 9:32 AM
when did paul vote for background checks a gun shows ? I'm pretty sure that's incorrect .

sakosf
11-22-2011, 11:25 AM
At this point my concern is which GOP candidate has the best chance of winning the election in 2012. Although the current occupant of the Whitehouse is down in the polls, I would not under estimate his chances of winning again. I dread the thought of Obama having the chance to nominate another justice to the Supreme Court......our luck might run out and one of the conservative justices would be the one retiring in a Obama second term in office.

uyoga
11-23-2011, 8:51 AM
Regarding Newt Gingrich's take on the Second Amendment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=P6F49cmT9Fo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_aMNzrPovu8#t=5s


(Sorry, haven't learned how to inbed yet)

Smokeybehr
11-23-2011, 9:44 AM
While Ron Paul might be all for 2A, almost all of his other views are just WAY out there. He has some insane ideas about monetary and foreign policy, as well as he's a 9-11 truther.

I don't really love any of the candidates, but Cain is about the best chance to get the country turned around. Gingrich has some great ideas as well, but what he said about immigration on the debate last night just scares me.

Trigger Guard
11-23-2011, 12:14 PM
While Ron Paul might be all for 2A,

Change "might" to "is" and you are correct. http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/second-amendment/

almost all of his other views are just WAY out there. He has some insane ideas about monetary and foreign policy, as well as he's a 9-11 truther.


Please clarify; Have you read/researched anything about monetary policy? Do you understand that our current fiat currency (US Dollar) that we operate under is outright theft from the American people? Are you saying that you approve of a private central banking cartel to control our government? Cain is part of that cartel (Kansas Fed Chair) and the rest of the candidates are controlled puppets by the same organization.


On foreign policy; What part of illegal wars and empire building are you having trouble with? Please read some history! Empire building is the primary reason for all nations to fail. War for corporate profits !REALLY! are you serious? You want my kids to go protect the poppies in Afghanistan? Don't get me wrong, I am all for DECLARED war as necessary to protect our sovereignty and freedom in this great nation. You have to understand that those people want us the h311 out of their country. You would be pissed too if China was occupying our(your) land. How long should we be protecting the borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan while ignoring our own?

911 Truther......Pleeeease! Can you back that up? Ive never heard that before. I have however heard him school Rudy G on the reasons for the attack. You sir need to look up "Rudy's Reading List" and educate yourself prior to spouting out claims that you know nothing of.

The definition of Insane is; to continue to do the same thing and expect different results. Seems to me that ALL the other candidates are following the status quo and more closely resemble and fit the term "insane".

Midian
11-23-2011, 2:09 PM
Irrelevant. They'll lie to you about guns, war with the scary turban people, the economy, whatever. Jesus, just look at some of the tripe about the patriot act Newt Gingrich mouthed last night.

Aside from Dr. Paul, they're ALL globalists and are serving the hegemonic interests of the financiers that control them.

Midian
11-23-2011, 2:10 PM
While Ron Paul might be all for 2A, almost all of his other views are just WAY out there. He has some insane ideas about monetary and foreign policy, as well as he's a 9-11 truther.
.

Yeah wouldn't want the truth about 9/11 getting out now would we?

Oooo! Look! Football's on!

Codelphious
11-23-2011, 9:31 PM
Change "might" to "is" and you are correct. http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/second-amendment/



Please clarify; Have you read/researched anything about monetary policy? Do you understand that our current fiat currency (US Dollar) that we operate under is outright theft from the American people? Are you saying that you approve of a private central banking cartel to control our government? Cain is part of that cartel (Kansas Fed Chair) and the rest of the candidates are controlled puppets by the same organization.


On foreign policy; What part of illegal wars and empire building are you having trouble with? Please read some history! Empire building is the primary reason for all nations to fail. War for corporate profits !REALLY! are you serious? You want my kids to go protect the poppies in Afghanistan? Don't get me wrong, I am all for DECLARED war as necessary to protect our sovereignty and freedom in this great nation. You have to understand that those people want us the h311 out of their country. You would be pissed too if China was occupying our(your) land. How long should we be protecting the borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan while ignoring our own?

911 Truther......Pleeeease! Can you back that up? Ive never heard that before. I have however heard him school Rudy G on the reasons for the attack. You sir need to look up "Rudy's Reading List" and educate yourself prior to spouting out claims that you know nothing of.

The definition of Insane is; to continue to do the same thing and expect different results. Seems to me that ALL the other candidates are following the status quo and more closely resemble and fit the term "insane".

+1 on this.

I think it's human nature to discount reason when it conflicts with preconceived notions, as misguided as those may be. Labeling someone as insane when they talk about freedom, liberty, and obeying the constitution is nothing more than a coping mechanism for those who simply can't face reality.

wildhawker
11-23-2011, 10:13 PM
The reality is that Paul isn't as clean on gun rights as some would lead you to believe, nor does he properly consider 14A.

-Brandon

Dave A
11-23-2011, 10:20 PM
There are probably only two candidates on the Republican side that will fight it out for the nomination, Gingrich and Romney. The others will soon fall by the wayside because of lack of support, or lack of money. Perry has money, but has not shown to be articulate in debates. Too many people are swayed by how articulate and well spoken a candidate is and fail to look behind the facade.

None of the serious candidates are going to take strong second amendment positions at this time. They need votes from the non committed and know they will get our votes. Too strong a position on firearms will turn off some voters and push them to Obama. They will walk a tightrope through the elections and we do them a disservice by asking too many tough questions just to satisfy our somewhat narrow issue.

Lots of people want anyone but Romney, Gingrich has marriage issues. In the end there is no perfect candidate, at least not this time.

ja308
11-24-2011, 12:55 PM
It is unlikely any Republican in this group would nominate anyone as bad for 2A as Sotomayer or Kagan.

They are both F- rated .

wildhawker
11-24-2011, 1:23 PM
Spot on.

There are probably only two candidates on the Republican side that will fight it out for the nomination, Gingrich and Romney. The others will soon fall by the wayside because of lack of support, or lack of money. Perry has money, but has not shown to be articulate in debates. Too many people are swayed by how articulate and well spoken a candidate is and fail to look behind the facade.

None of the serious candidates are going to take strong second amendment positions at this time. They need votes from the non committed and know they will get our votes. Too strong a position on firearms will turn off some voters and push them to Obama. They will walk a tightrope through the elections and we do them a disservice by asking too many tough questions just to satisfy our somewhat narrow issue.

Lots of people want anyone but Romney, Gingrich has marriage issues. In the end there is no perfect candidate, at least not this time.

OleCuss
11-24-2011, 1:38 PM
It is unlikely any Republican in this group would nominate anyone as bad for 2A as Sotomayer or Kagan.

They are both F- rated .

This is the salient point.

Trigger Guard
11-25-2011, 5:42 PM
Irrelevant. They'll lie to you about guns, war with the scary turban people, the economy, whatever. Jesus, just look at some of the tripe about the patriot act Newt Gingrich mouthed last night.

Aside from Dr. Paul, they're ALL globalists and are serving the hegemonic interests of the financiers that control them.

So..... How do we help the unknowing to understand?
That is the question!

HogKiller
11-26-2011, 6:24 PM
Obama would chew him up and spit'm out. Can you imagine Paul and Obama in a televised debate?:rolleyes:

Yes, and Barry without a teleprompter would be a total disaster. Most any of the candidates would chew him up. Barry gives 'empty suit' a whole new meaning. I'm not a RP fan by any means but I know beyond a shadow of doubt that Barry is a pure true blue Socialist.

yellowfin
11-26-2011, 8:23 PM
It is unlikely any Republican in this group would nominate anyone as bad for 2A as Sotomayer or Kagan.

They are both F- rated .Romney would without thinking because he doesn't value 2A at all. He might not go out of his way to find the worst on purpose but he wouldn't lift a finger to prevent it or show any interest in screening out bad ones. That's what's so bad about so called moderates, they're disgusting bystanders and despicable accomplices --they won't throw the stones themselves but they'll hold the coats of those who do.

a1c
11-26-2011, 8:28 PM
It is unlikely any Republican in this group would nominate anyone as bad for 2A as Sotomayer or Kagan.

They are both F- rated .

Romney or Cain would probably not have a huge problem nominating a conservative judge who is mildly pro-gun control provided he is very business-friendly. The 2A is not a huge issue for those guys.