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Zombiefilmfan
09-30-2011, 8:09 PM
I am, or was, four days out from getting my baby out of jail (Mossberg 930 spx). Today I received a call from my FFL, that the DOJ had denied the transfer of my purchase. My FFL Rep, totally cool and informative, gave me the contact information that I needed so that I could contact the DOJ firearms department and see what the issue was.
*a bit of history*Having a spotless record, I already knew what it could be. I work at a place that requires constant background checks on a bi annual basis, and in my 2nd year I was informed of an issue. The issue was that an individual living one county away with the same first name and last name as I, as well as the fact that they were born on that same day is a repeat felon. This individual has assaulted officers, etc. Needless to say, I found out they did not cross reference my SSN and I had to clear my own name, and received an affidavit from the courts stating it was not me.
Fast forward to now. I am speaking to the front office rep from the DOJ firearms dept, and I heard the key phrase again. " There was no flag of your SSN on the background check", and I was denied based on "appearance". I further inquired on this "appearance" denial, and I was told I was denied based on the fact my full name, birth date, and appearance matched an individual who has committed a felon or multiple felonies. After already asking why my SSN was not cross referenced, I further pressed on why my SSN was not used, and I was denied based on "appearance". She told me she would notify the rep who ran my background check, and they would of course call me on Monday. The day before I was supposed to pick up my Mossberg. Now with no fault of my own, I have to wait even longer to get my shotgun, that is, if they will properly run my background check, and then realize I have a clean slate.

In your opinion, is this normal protocol when the DOJ runs a BC? Or are they being lazy, and not giving due and proper? I know I will probably have to deal with this issue of my doppelganger making my life difficult. However I would think, that the DOJ would use my provided SSN and I could be saved of this constant hassle of having to clear my name. It makes me look like a criminal!

Thanks in advance for any opinions.
P.S I apologize If I posted in the wrong area.

Cokebottle
09-30-2011, 8:12 PM
Not normal for them to run SSN.
They just go by name, birthdate, and residence

Personally, I'd change my name... legally reverse first and middle, so you don't have to change how people address you.

jtv3062
09-30-2011, 8:19 PM
Doesn't it state on form, if you use your ssn it would cut down on any confusion with other like names.

Zombiefilmfan
09-30-2011, 8:23 PM
Not that I could trust my coworker fully; She worked for an attorney and mentioned even if I changed my name, it would still be linked, and I "may" still have the same problem.

Do you think the DOJ might do a further check to clear it up? or am I fudged from participating in my 2nd amendment right for the current time until "I" have to clear it up.

I understand my questions are purely hypothetical.

Zombiefilmfan
09-30-2011, 8:23 PM
Doesn't it state on form, if you use your ssn it would cut down on any confusion with other like names.

Exactly... That is why I specifically put my SSN on the form to avoid this. Which is why I was more confused as to why I was denied.

Clownpuncher
09-30-2011, 8:27 PM
I would question the DOJ and see if you can send them the court documents that they use for your background check. Perhaps they can complete a file or something so there is no confusion in the future.

Or you can get a CCW, then that will solve it all. :43:

jonzer77
09-30-2011, 8:31 PM
Man that really sucks, hopefully they can make a note on your file or whatever they do to prevent this from happening in the future. The shotgun will not be your last purchase, trust me!

Zombiefilmfan
09-30-2011, 8:33 PM
I would question the DOJ and see if you can send them the court documents that they use for your background check. Perhaps they can complete a file or something so there is no confusion in the future.

Or you can get a CCW, then that will solve it all. :43:


I have those docs and I will mention that to her, thank you.

Yea I wish I could get a CCW, but I live in a very difficult may issue county, and the sheriff is quoted as saying he will only give his deputies CCW licenses, due to liability issues under may issue status. I am not too current on the laws to know if he is truthful or not, and I haven't looked into it more.

Zombiefilmfan
09-30-2011, 8:35 PM
Man that really sucks, hopefully they can make a note on your file or whatever they do to prevent this from happening in the future. The shotgun will not be your last purchase, trust me!

Ohh you know it! I havent even gotten my shotgun yet, and I am already itching to get a 9mm. :43:

ke6guj
09-30-2011, 8:36 PM
Exactly... That is why I specifically put my SSN on the form to avoid this. Which is why I was more confused as to why I was denied.

your SSN is listed on the federal 4473 form and is NOT transmitted to CADOJ when the FFL submits the state DROS paperwork. Listing the SSN on the 4473 does you no good in CA except to open you up to identity theft.

Zombiefilmfan
09-30-2011, 8:43 PM
your SSN is listed on the federal 4473 form and is NOT transmitted to CADOJ when the FFL submits the state DROS paperwork. Listing the SSN on the 4473 does you no good in CA except to open you up to identity theft.

Ohh! :facepalm: Man I really need to move from this state. Things are never easy or normal for me, either hard or near impossible. Well hopefully I can get this worked out somehow.

Shellshocker66
10-01-2011, 9:10 AM
I'm sure when you speak to the rep on Monday everything will be sorted out. But I have the same fear that one day I'm going to get the denial based on my very common last and first name. Hope it all works out!

Zombiefilmfan
10-01-2011, 10:53 AM
@Shellshocker66
Thank you, I am sure things will get sorted out. I will try and get them to flag my profile for future purchases (once it is worked out, to avoid future hangups) as jonzer77 mentioned above. When I was younger, my father and I would go plinking, target shooting, and hunting on a regular basis, and I have now started supporting the NRA, and hopefully soon Calguns. I now know what it means by getting an addiction for firearms. I havent even gotten my shotgun yet, and I am already shopping for a nice 22 for plinking.

Thanks everyone for your input. I really enjoy reading these forums!

Cokebottle
10-01-2011, 12:52 PM
Not that I could trust my coworker fully; She worked for an attorney and mentioned even if I changed my name, it would still be linked, and I "may" still have the same problem.
Most likely, this issue will be resolved. The problem is, it is likely to repeat in the future.
Exactly... That is why I specifically put my SSN on the form to avoid this. Which is why I was more confused as to why I was denied.
SSN makes no difference on the background check.
As ke6guj said, it doesn't go to the DOJ.
There are two forms.
The Federal 4473 and the California DROS.
The 4473 is used to run the NICS check for handgun purchases in "free states", and if provided, the FFL will provide the SSN to the BATFE.

California does not use the NICS. They run their own check, and the only information they get is what is on the DROS.

Yes, if you change your name it will still be back-traced, and it doesn't guarantee that it won't happen again, but it might help.

tenpercentfirearms
10-01-2011, 1:27 PM
I'll be the third guy that confirms putting your SSN on the 4473 is pointless.

However, here is an idea. You should have the FFL put in the DROS comments section something like, "This is not the felon, check SSN #123-45-6789."

When you talk to the DOJ again, ask them if including something in the DROS comments section will avoid this issue. Maybe a case reference number or something.

Otherwise, you are probably going to have to go through this a lot. Another option is to call the DOJ the same day you start DROS and let them know it is you again and to let it go through this time.

There has to be a way to take care of this, I would recommend calling the DOJ and trying to figure out some way to do it through their system. They would rather not do all of this work either I am sure.

Zombiefilmfan
10-03-2011, 3:07 PM
So... Good news!
I spoke with the DOJ rep, and she told me that she is only waiting for the response from the county where that guy with the same name, same birthday is from. Once they get the confirmation then I will be able to get my pride and joy.

I also asked about future purchases, and she insured me my profile will have the notation clarifying the doppleganger issue, and that I will not have a problem in the future.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Shellshocker66
10-03-2011, 3:52 PM
So... Good news!
I spoke with the DOJ rep, and she told me that she is only waiting for the response from the county where that guy with the same name, same birthday is from. Once they get the confirmation then I will be able to get my pride and joy.

I also asked about future purchases, and she insured me my profile will have the notation clarifying the doppleganger issue, and that I will not have a problem in the future.

Thanks for all the help everyone.


That is good to hear! Glad you got it worked out and now hopefully no more problems so you can purchase in the future without worry :)

jtv3062
10-03-2011, 6:03 PM
Good news indeed.

paul0660
10-03-2011, 6:13 PM
The issue was that an individual living one county away with the same first name and last name as I, as well as the fact that they were born on that same day is a repeat felon. This individual has assaulted officers, etc. Needless to say, I found out they did not cross reference my SSN and I had to clear my own name, and received an affidavit from the courts stating it was not me.

Sounds like the backround guys did their job. I wonder if this would have been an issue on the quick check they do elsewhere.

Colt-45
10-04-2011, 12:03 AM
Not normal for them to run SSN.
They just go by name, birthdate, and residence

Personally, I'd change my name... legally reverse first and middle, so you don't have to change how people address you.

Is that a pricey procedure?:confused:

epcii
10-04-2011, 8:42 AM
Maybe you could request your own criminal record through the DOJ, then give it back to them, :laugh:. I got mine not too long ago, and it shows my SSN and everything in my background in regard to fingerprinting.

epcii
10-04-2011, 8:49 AM
So... Good news!
I spoke with the DOJ rep, and she told me that she is only waiting for the response from the county where that guy with the same name, same birthday is from. Once they get the confirmation then I will be able to get my pride and joy.

I also asked about future purchases, and she insured me my profile will have the notation clarifying the doppleganger issue, and that I will not have a problem in the future.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Nice. I'm glad to see that it worked out for you.

Zartan
10-04-2011, 9:05 AM
What's your SSN? I'll give it a look ;)

Lumpia is sarap!
10-04-2011, 11:46 AM
You're tax dollars at work.

Cokebottle
10-04-2011, 5:07 PM
Is that a pricey procedure?:confused:
Only if you have a lawyer do it.
The state forms and court fees shouldn't be much, and you'll need to take out a classified in the paper for a specific amount of time as public notification of the name change.

My wife did it before I met her and I think she said it was under $50 for everything, but that was in the early 80s.

Cokebottle
10-04-2011, 5:12 PM
Sounds like the backround guys did their job. I wonder if this would have been an issue on the quick check they do elsewhere.
:confused::confused:
"elsewhere" they run through the Federal NICS database.
California does not.
It is theoretically possible for someone to be prohibited in NICS and not in the DOJ database, and vice-versa.

OTOH, the optional SSN can be provided when the FFL does the NICS check, and that would have prevented the OP from being delayed.

So no, the background check guys did not do their job. They delayed delivery of a firearm to a non-prohibited person... and they had a full 10 days to do the check properly and see that his record is clear.
No, they were being lazy. "John Smith? He's a felon, denial!"

Zombiefilmfan
10-04-2011, 5:37 PM
So... Good news!
I spoke with the DOJ rep, and she told me that she is only waiting for the response from the county where that guy with the same name, same birthday is from. Once they get the confirmation then I will be able to get my pride and joy.

I also asked about future purchases, and she insured me my profile will have the notation clarifying the doppleganger issue, and that I will not have a problem in the future.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

:facepalm: I spoke too soon! The DOJ rep called me on Monday, saying everything was good. She mentioned I would have to fill out a new 4473 form. However she said I could still pick up my firearm, and told me she will notify the FFL. I was leery about that, but I thought "great"... Well I left work early today, to pick it up. The FFL told me they got no such notification. I left, and called the DOJ, yet again. The lady I spoke to this time, said the background checker mailed it out instead of emailed it to the FFL, and I would be able to go 3 days from now, to fill out the new paperwork.

After speaking with her for a while, she said she would contact the FFL and fax it over to them (how novel). After driving all the way back home, I got a call from the FFL mentioning they had received the paperwork (great now I have to drive all the way back).

After feeling out the form, I was told I would have to wait another 10 days! Another 10 days to wait for an innocent, average citizen who had a case of mistaken identity (until they checked the SSN). I love how California does their own checks, and does not use SSN's for their check. So in my case and no fault of my own, I have to wait twice as much as regular citizen, and 100% longer then a criminal.

I know I am preaching to the choir here, however this is exactly why the anti-gunner's pass all these laws. It only inhibits law abiding citizens from actually going out an practicing their 2nd amendment rights. It will end up taking me a month to get something it would take a criminal less that one day. :mad:

Sorry for venting, but this is ridiculous.

Tripper
10-04-2011, 5:41 PM
Does anyone know if the CII ends up on getting assigned or referenced as a result of the CA DROS?
I was wondering if finding out your own CII, and including it in the form somehow would be possible..

jyo
10-05-2011, 1:15 AM
Well at least we now know that someone is alive and awake over at the DOJ---these things do happen and can be sorted out.

bob7122
10-05-2011, 1:20 AM
Doesn't it state on form, if you use your ssn it would cut down on any confusion with other like names.

yes it does. and my dad had to change his name when he became a citizen. he was confused with a felon wanted for murder. almost didn't get the american dream all because of someone else named the same, with same age, and same race.

change your last name with McLovin no one will confuse you with that.:D

tenpercentfirearms
10-05-2011, 6:37 AM
I would raise hell with DOJ and tell them that you will be using the original DROS and you nor the FFL will be paying another $25. You are not a prohibited person and their denying your DROS is not your fault. That DROS should still be valid and you should not have to wait again.

I would push them on it and if they say the dealer is making you do one again, then tell them they need to call the dealer and sort that out as again, you did nothing wrong and their system is flawed.