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View Full Version : Need advice (UPDATE: Pics and range report)


GettoPhilosopher
09-30-2011, 6:30 PM
Ok, so a little context. I used to be a junior high leader in a local youth group (a few years back). I got a reputation for mentoring and sticking up for the "outcast kids" and the "unchurched kids". Oh no, naughty me. Eventually, I made the "mistake" of sticking up for some kids being sexually harassed by a staff member. The church took care of the problem (after 6 weeks of stalling and a well placed comment by me about my mandated reporter status ;) ), but decided FOR COMPLETELY UNRELATED REASONS WE SWEAR to "not ask me back". That sucked...I put 3 years and a TON of my time into that church. But a bunch of the kids my wife and I had been mentoring stuck in touch....and we've been kinda big older brother/sister "mentors" of sorts to them for a while. (The context was necessary. I'm not trying to start church bashing or a debate on church politics. :P)

One of those girls (now 17) asked me to teach her how to shoot. So with parents' permission and waivers in hand, we're hitting Angeles on Sunday. Now she just had a nasty breakup with an ex, he went mega vindictive/verbally abusive, treated her like crap, caused her a lot of pain. We were glad he was gone. She calls me today to let me know she's talking to him again, but told him she won't get involved with him again unless he meets my wife and I and we sorta give the "all clear".

That's when she throws out the idea that hey, he likes guns too, and he (allegedly) owns one, so maybe he can come with us? He'll bring his own gun/buy his own admission and ammo!

My gut is telling me not the right time or place. I don't think he'd flip and do something felony stupid or anything, but I don't like the sound of a potential testosterone pissing match while holding loaded firearms. Also, he's like friggin 16, so I have no clue what she means by "he owns a gun too". I don't know if it's legal, I don't know if his parents bought it for him, I don't know what kind of gun (22? shotgun? EBR? illegal handgun he got from the neighborhood drug dealer?), I don't know if he really has permission, and I don't like the idea of being responsible (whether legally so or not) for two minor "newbies" with guns. That being said....I'm really glad she's trying to use us to help make sure she's making a good decision, and I want us to meet him so I can see for myself what he's like, and hell....maybe knowing she has an "older brother" with guns will keep him in line. (disclaimer: I don't make threats, i don't brandish, I'm a law abiding citizen, I'm not an idiot. I'm not saying I'd do something stupid, but sometimes just knowing she's got someone capable watching out for her can get people to calm the hell down ;))

What do you guys think? Great opportunity to make sure he knows he better treat her right? Horrible idea just asking for trouble? Legal morass that'll get me up sh*t creek without the necessary means of propulsion?

Like I said, I'm leaning towards "no". Was wondering if any of you had insight that could help me be more sure about my gut, or change my mind.

Alan Block
09-30-2011, 6:38 PM
You don't know him, his state of mind, his temperment. You do not want to facilitate their being together especially with guns around. She is going to follow her hormones at some point and you don't want to be a part of it.

CSACANNONEER
09-30-2011, 6:42 PM
Wrong venue for a first meeting of a troubled teen. Might I suggest meeting him AND HIS PARENTS at a Denny's for "coffee and sodas" only?

Cen Cal Gunner
09-30-2011, 6:43 PM
The part about him sounds pretty fishy if he's not even 18 and he owns a gun.I think it was her bad to even put you in that position, she should be happy your willing to teach her.This kid doesnt sound like a keeper to me but shes still young and might have to figure it out as it goes.Maybe you should have dinner with him to try to see what kind of kid he is before taking him shooting.

geeknow
09-30-2011, 6:55 PM
Nope. It smells. Good on you for being a positive role model for kids. You cant fight this battle for her. You can only give her/them the tools to do so for themselves. That said, there are way too many unknowns, zero upside, and lots of downside in your scenario.

Take her shooting. Maybe it will instill in her the confidence she needs to do what's right in her life.

As you said yourself, he's 16. There is little chance that he is a legit gun owner, and less chance that he has his head screwed on right.

To repeat, good on you for being a positive role model.

Take this opportunity to demonstrate good decisionmaking skill, and leave him behind.

CSACANNONEER
09-30-2011, 7:08 PM
The part about him sounds pretty fishy if he's not even 18 and he owns a gun.

So what? It's perfectly legal for a minor to OWN a firearm. Many of us owned guns before we were teenagers. My minor stepson just manufatured a firearm for his personal use. Legally, he can't even give it to an adult. So, why do you think it's fishy for a minor to own a firearm?

damon1272
09-30-2011, 7:13 PM
Wrong venue for a first meeting of a troubled teen. Might I suggest meeting him AND HIS PARENTS at a Denny's for "coffee and sodas" only?

^^^Ding, Ding, Ding! Winner here! CSA has it right. Wrong venue and needs to prove himself.

GettoPhilosopher
09-30-2011, 8:10 PM
Nope. It smells. Good on you for being a positive role model for kids. You cant fight this battle for her. You can only give her/them the tools to do so for themselves. That said, there are way too many unknowns, zero upside, and lots of downside in your scenario.

Take her shooting. Maybe it will instill in her the confidence she needs to do what's right in her life.

As you said yourself, he's 16. There is little chance that he is a legit gun owner, and less chance that he has his head screwed on right.

To repeat, good on you for being a positive role model.

Take this opportunity to demonstrate good decisionmaking skill, and leave him behind.

Heh, you basically repeated word-for-word what my head's been telling me all night. I can only support and encourage, I can't make her do anything (and wouldn't want to. i want her to grow/mature and make good decisions on her own). I should meet the guy. A firing range really isn't the place for it. There's too many unknowns regarding him, his safety record, and his ownership. Be the adult here and say "no, but he can come over for a BBQ next weekend" or something.

So no votes for "go for it"? ;)

chim-chim7
10-01-2011, 12:36 AM
I don't know how you could get to know someone with ear protection and gun fire all around. Talking in a quiet, friendly enviroment would be better. Guns and troubled teens don't mix well anyway. I vote no and best of luck to you. I know someone has to do it, but the older I get the more I stay far away from other people drama. I duck and run the first sight of someone coming to me with their personal issues. Good for you, help her graduate. It's the most important thing she should be concentrating on.

GettoPhilosopher
10-02-2011, 7:47 PM
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o206/gettophilosopher/317446_1929543092981_1674356993_1445993_678561940_ n.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o206/gettophilosopher/312000_1929547293086_1674356993_1445996_881014632_ n.jpg


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o206/gettophilosopher/320742_1929547533092_1674356993_1445997_360617195_ n.jpg


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o206/gettophilosopher/301258_1929547973103_1674356993_1445999_1524668977 _n.jpg


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o206/gettophilosopher/307102_1929548093106_1674356993_1446000_2081717958 _n.jpg


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o206/gettophilosopher/296172_1929548413114_1674356993_1446002_298944144_ n.jpg

Happiness is giving the gun safety talk, showing her how to use a M16A4 and iron sights, sitting back, and then listening to the glorious sound of her hitting 9/10 rounds on the steel plate at 100y. First rounds she ever fired. : D

S12 made her jump a little, but she still fired about 50 rounds through it. Even did some skeet shooting with it. Now *that* was fun. I've always sucked at skeet, but I was hitting 4/5 if not all 5 with my S12.

Met some cool fellow shooters, they let her try out their Glock so she could officially try all three (rifle, pistol, shotgun). Let them skeet some with my S12.

Only bummer....I mounted my recently-acquired Eotech and magnifier on my 16" AR, but found that either my spikes upper is off, or the previous owner adjusted the aim funky, because I couldn't even get on target with it. Tried on paper, but couldn't tell what was happening. So, I'll have to go back and properly sight in the Eotech later.

Great day at the range, can't wait to get my ACOG, need to sight in my EOtech, and she really is my "daughter"...liked the shotgun and handgun, but is 100% a rifle girl. #winning

I'd count that one more heart and mind on our side. : )

tuna quesadilla
10-02-2011, 8:02 PM
Somewhat off-topic, but I love that first picture showing a firing line full of AR-15s. When people post range pics on "the AR15 forum that shall not be named ;)" they're usually the only ones on the firing line with an AR15... And they say California doesn't have a gun culture! :p

Lumpia is sarap!
10-03-2011, 10:37 AM
Where's her (ex)boyfriend?

Seiran
10-03-2011, 11:06 AM
You did correct her pistol grip at some point, right? Other than that, good times man. Nice job. Looks like she had a great time.

BKinzey
10-03-2011, 1:46 PM
I think you're leaning correctly with the "boyfriend" (Problem Child:rolleyes:) and I probably wouldn't want to even meet him.


:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Those pics! that's a very bad stance with the S12, shoulder scrunched, feet together:( The grip on the handgun is bad and even dangerous. Never put your support hand thumb like that. There are plenty of stories where the slide rips over the top of the thumb or a broken thumb is the result. BOTH thumbs should be on the same side, palms together with the support fingers wrapped around the fingers of the grip hand.

Basic stances and proper grip can be found all over the net. Teach her the proper basics now and she'll shoot much better.

Glock_fanboy
10-03-2011, 7:31 PM
Wrong venue for a first meeting of a troubled teen. Might I suggest meeting him AND HIS PARENTS at a Denny's for "coffee and sodas" only?

This. Or the BBQ idea as well. His parents coming over would be beneficial as well

GettoPhilosopher
10-05-2011, 8:54 PM
The Saiga was a little large for her, thus the stance. The odd pistol grip hold on the M16 in the pic was her trying a little too hard to follow my advice and keep her finger off the trigger till firing. While firing, she held it properly.

As for the Glock, she was cautious about her thumbs. Fired one mag, didn't like it, went back to kicking @$$ with the rifle. Didn't feel the need to correct her. I taught her proper trigger discipline, gun safety rules, iron sights, muzzle discipline, trigger control, and more. She consistently hit steel at 100y all day long. I think she did just fine. :) *proud*

She had a blast, wants to come along next time. It was a good day.

I think you're leaning correctly with the "boyfriend" (Problem Child:rolleyes:) and I probably wouldn't want to even meet him.


:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Those pics! that's a very bad stance with the S12, shoulder scrunched, feet together:( The grip on the handgun is bad and even dangerous. Never put your support hand thumb like that. There are plenty of stories where the slide rips over the top of the thumb or a broken thumb is the result. BOTH thumbs should be on the same side, palms together with the support fingers wrapped around the fingers of the grip hand.

Basic stances and proper grip can be found all over the net. Teach her the proper basics now and she'll shoot much better.



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Stormfeather
10-05-2011, 10:42 PM
Great job calling it on this one!

My suggestion would be this, take the guy friend and invite him and her over for a saturday afternoon bbq. Ensure that theres no loud music and plenty of opportunity to converse and get a feel for him yourself. It sounds like you have a great rapport with the kids you have helped, and I commend you for it, not alot of people are this way, and I personally think there should be alot more folks this way!

Now, as for that horrible grip on that glock. . . I know you said . . . .I taught her proper trigger discipline, gun safety rules, iron sights, muzzle discipline, trigger control, and more. . . . but you also need to teach her proper grip. No shooting discipline anywhere would endorse this as a proper grip! She may find shooting a .22 LR more fun than that glock, and it wont help if her first impression on how to hold it is the wrong one. She may have already decided she didnt like handguns due to improper grip. See the route im working here? :) But enough busting your chops over the grip thing, you did a great thing here, keep it up!