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View Full Version : Poor Man's TRP - Range Update -


walmart_ar15
09-30-2011, 6:33 PM
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4214/20110930174640.jpg
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7727/20110930175302.jpg
http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3848/20110930175158.jpg

It started as:

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4627/20110930180627.jpg

plus

$29 bull barrel
$8 reverse plug (collar) updated with FLGR and supported plug
$50 mag well
$22 grip
and left over parts from the tool box

---------------------

10rds from 25ft ~ 1.5"

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/1381/trptgt.jpg

And with el-cheapo parts!!! Man, 1911 are just inherently accurate.

But I got to do something with the RIA tac beaver tail, it does not ride as high as Wilson, Caspian and not as comfortable.

zod
09-30-2011, 7:48 PM
Very nice. Considering a full rail TRP goes for over $1500 here on the boards, that's a good budget alternative.

NorCal Einstein
09-30-2011, 8:01 PM
If the slide and the frame were matching color, I wouldn't have known any better at first glance!

Freagan
09-30-2011, 8:19 PM
The RIA full rail is available now? How much are they going for?

walmart_ar15
10-01-2011, 12:27 AM
The RIA full rail is available now? How much are they going for?

SSE purchase

$599 retail + tax + DROS + 400 miles and 5 hrs of SoCal traffic :driving:

chim-chim7
10-01-2011, 12:46 AM
Does it shoot as accurate and precise as a TRP?

wang949
10-01-2011, 1:29 AM
what kind of grips are those?

Cyc Wid It
10-01-2011, 1:45 AM
Does it shoot as accurate and precise as a TRP?

No... slide to frame fit + barrel etc.

louscamaro91
10-01-2011, 4:22 AM
I liked the original sights better.
That is one thing I wish the Operator had different.

walmart_ar15
10-01-2011, 9:56 AM
Does it shoot as accurate and precise as a TRP?

Why, YES. Guarantee to hit the barn at 10ft!! ;)


As with most things, you pretty much get what you pay for. Sure I tigten up the slide and frame fit, polished the internals and adjusted the spring for a clean 5# release, made sure proper barrel slide lock up, checked and adjusted the timing, and put in a tighter link, but there is just not much one can do with a $29 drop-in barrel sitting in an used Brazilian GI slide. And to think a $29 drop-in barrel will shoot as well as barrel custom fitted at 10+ times its value is probably not realistic. And I don't work in SA custom shop.

As for the base RIA Tact 2011, I honestly has no clue. It uses the std barrel bushing system. But overall very good tight fit with smooth actions out of the box. Gave the impression of a hand fitted, custom job. Either way, both will out shoot me.

I was bored so I decided to celebrate the 1911 centennial. I bought the two RIA one GI and Tact 2011 to be my tinkering toys. Not really a 1911 guy, but they are more acceptable to DIY projects than say HK.

http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3429/20111001093847.jpg

The grip is the ERGO XT. It uses the same grip screws but has a thinner profile than std grip.

:)

Freagan
10-01-2011, 10:06 AM
Well I know what's next on my list! :D

I wonder if I could find one of these in TX or AR...I will have to go look around

hkfooey
10-01-2011, 10:11 AM
Thanks for sharing.

I bought the RIA tac for the same reason - some platform to play with - if I screw up, I won't cry over it. :)

billybob_jcv
10-01-2011, 10:58 AM
RIA really needs to tone down the huge white wall lettering. It makes it look like an airsoft gun pretending to be a real gun.

Matt P
10-01-2011, 11:47 AM
Good for you Walmart. Creative and I loved the very honest assessment of your shooting abilities.
I would suggest you have an above average ability to smith that series.
I love the custom and unique look.

hybridatsun350
10-01-2011, 11:59 AM
Which magwell did you use? I've been looking around for the best one to use on my Tactical 2011, and yours looks like it fits perfect.

RIA really needs to tone down the huge white wall lettering. It makes it look like an airsoft gun pretending to be a real gun.

It's laser-etched, but I totally agree. I'm already trying to figure out how to get rid of it when I finally get mine!

walmart_ar15
10-01-2011, 12:56 PM
Which magwell did you use? I've been looking around for the best one to use on my Tactical 2011, and yours looks like it fits perfect.

It's laser-etched, but I totally agree. I'm already trying to figure out how to get rid of it when I finally get mine!

Frankly, the magwell fit is adequate... There is a gap of (0.16 mm or 0.006 in for the GI and gap of 0.06 mm or 0.002 in for the TAC) between the magwell and the frame. The square XT grip is a bit longer that helps to hide the gap. With a little effort, one can probably fit the magwell flush. It does not bother me much so didn't spend the time on it. As for drop-in fit for the main spring housing, no complains.

Magwell is made by EGW, one of their two piece S&A style well. I like the S&A style for its low profile, stream line look.

Laser-etch on the GI is hardly noticeable, but shines like a neon light on the Tac2011. RIA probably wants some free ad time on the range. :p

PS the main spring housing on the Tac2011 is polymer. It just begs to be replaced.

LovingTheYear1911
10-01-2011, 4:41 PM
I liked the RIA better. There is nothing wrong with those pistols. In my opinion, just as accurate and reliable as other 1911's.

But then again, we all have opinions, right?

hybridatsun350
10-01-2011, 9:38 PM
Frankly, the magwell fit is adequate... There is a gap of (0.16 mm or 0.006 in for the GI and gap of 0.06 mm or 0.002 in for the TAC) between the magwell and the frame. The square XT grip is a bit longer that helps to hide the gap. With a little effort, one can probably fit the magwell flush. It does not bother me much so didn't spend the time on it. As for drop-in fit for the main spring housing, no complains.

Magwell is made by EGW, one of their two piece S&A style well. I like the S&A style for its low profile, stream line look.

Laser-etch on the GI is hardly noticeable, but shines like a neon light on the Tac2011. RIA probably wants some free ad time on the range. :p

PS the main spring housing on the Tac2011 is polymer. It just begs to be replaced.

Good info! I had no idea the mainspring housing was polymer. That's going to be the first thing I change! Well, right along with the FLGR...

jessegpresley
10-02-2011, 12:16 PM
I liked the original sights better.
That is one thing I wish the Operator had different.

Harrison Design makes fixed sights specifically for your TRP.

(not my gun or pic)

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8269/opsideby3.jpg

MrExel17
10-03-2011, 9:30 AM
RIA really needs to tone down the huge white wall lettering. It makes it look like an airsoft gun pretending to be a real gun.

I agree

skyscraper
10-03-2011, 12:17 PM
Harrison Design makes fixed sights specifically for your TRP.

(not my gun or pic)



Do you know if those sights can be installed by a regular joe, or do they require gunsmithing?

The DRis
10-03-2011, 1:44 PM
Nice job on the conversion, however..

This:
http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/7727/20110930175302.jpg

Is not even close to this:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8269/opsideby3.jpg

;-)

zfields
10-03-2011, 3:24 PM
Do you know if those sights can be installed by a regular joe, or do they require gunsmithing?

They most deffinately require gunsmithing.

skyscraper
10-03-2011, 4:33 PM
They most deffinately require gunsmithing.

Ok thanks

jeffrice6
10-03-2011, 11:18 PM
Do you know if those sights can be installed by a regular joe, or do they require gunsmithing?

They most deffinately require gunsmithing.

Why do you say that?
Not arguing with you, but the Harrison's were made for the Bomar/TRP cut. I don't doubt there may be minor fitting, but I think most any "regular joe" can handle the task.

http://shop.harrisoncustom.com/products/153-hd-006-extreme-service-rear-sight.aspx

chim-chim7
10-03-2011, 11:34 PM
My TRP has a Novak cut.

zfields
10-04-2011, 9:51 AM
Why do you say that?
Not arguing with you, but the Harrison's were made for the Bomar/TRP cut. I don't doubt there may be minor fitting, but I think most any "regular joe" can handle the task.

http://shop.harrisoncustom.com/products/153-hd-006-extreme-service-rear-sight.aspx

Was refering to fit a GI slide

jessegpresley
10-04-2011, 2:00 PM
Was refering to fit a GI slide

Which TRP with Bomar sights has a GI slide?

zfields
10-04-2011, 6:14 PM
Which TRP with Bomar sights has a GI slide?

this thread is about a slide that started without Bomar cuts. Thats what I was talkingabout.

Not about fitting an actuall TRP.

RippSpeed
10-05-2011, 2:56 PM
I dont get why people think RIA is junk ??? I look @ it as a good starting point for a project.

I would love to buy a RIA Tactical or their 1911A2 and use the frame and build it from there ... I priced everything, by the time I'm finished with one it'll be cheaper than buying a TRP or an STI Tactical pistol thru a SSC ...

Especially RIA 1911A2 which is on the roster and it shares the same frame as the Tangfolio, Caspian, and ParaOrdance frame ... Matter of fact they use the same mags, Para or Caspian mags will work on RIA 1911A2

Cyc Wid It
10-05-2011, 2:59 PM
I dont get why people think RIA is junk ??? I look @ it as a good starting point for a project.

I would love to buy a RIA Tactical or their 1911A2 and use the frame and build it from there ... I priced everything, by the time I'm finished with one it'll be cheaper than buying a TRP or an STI Tactical pistol thru a SSC ...

It's not junk but you get what you pay for. By the time you're done, it still won't be worth as much as either of those guns you listed, even if you replace everything except for the frame and slide.

RippSpeed
10-05-2011, 3:04 PM
It's not junk but you get what you pay for. By the time you're done, it still won't be worth as much as either of those guns you listed, even if you replace everything except for the frame and slide.

So your saying a TRP from the factory is better than a custom pistol ??? TRP's sell for $1700 + Tax, you can build a RIA frame from the ground up for alittle less than that ...

Like I said for $500 bucks I would buy one just for the frame... Which here in California you cant even touch a STI frame for $500 bucks, everyone and their momas want at least $950 ...

walmart_ar15
10-05-2011, 3:41 PM
Can't never get a satisfactory answer from the shops. Why can't we just buy the frame for a listed pistol? On the form just fill them in as the model on the list. It is after all the same pistol from the same manufacturer just less parts.

It won't work for the non-listed. But why not listed ones?

Saying the frame can be made into non-listed pistol is not logical since one can still buy a completed pistol and then converted into something non-listed.

:confused::confused:

zfields
10-05-2011, 3:47 PM
It's not junk but you get what you pay for. By the time you're done, it still won't be worth as much as either of those guns you listed, even if you replace everything except for the frame and slide.

Not everyone is about resale.

RippSpeed
10-05-2011, 3:55 PM
Can't never get a satisfactory answer from the shops. Why can't we just buy the frame for a listed pistol? On the form just fill them in as the model on the list. It is after all the same pistol from the same manufacturer just less parts.

It won't work for the non-listed. But why not listed ones?

Saying the frame can be made into non-listed pistol is not logical since one can still buy a completed pistol and then converted into something non-listed.

:confused::confused:

this is what kills me about this state ... I wish I could just buy a 6" Frame or 5" Tactical frame from STI and build it to my specs and the options I want on it ...

Either way, walmart ar15 nicely done on the pistol ...

Cyc Wid It
10-05-2011, 4:13 PM
So your saying a TRP from the factory is better than a custom pistol ??? TRP's sell for $1700 + Tax, you can build a RIA frame from the ground up for alittle less than that ...

Like I said for $500 bucks I would buy one just for the frame... Which here in California you cant even touch a STI frame for $500 bucks, everyone and their momas want at least $950 ...

Do you realize how much work you'll need to do to the frame and rails and truing all the lines and fixing the sight cuts (you should probably grind off those terrible rollmarks while you're at it and add checkering)? You're looking at more than doubling the cost of the gun almost just to do that, and this is all before you even put a single new part in (replacing everything). Even if you don't go to a well known smith, I guarantee that comes out to more than a TRP (which goes for less than $1700).

And about resale, it's like modding a daily driver car and wondering why it's not the same as a supercar or a track car in both value and feel. Ever wonder why you never see full customs built on RIAs?

walmart_ar15
10-05-2011, 5:47 PM
I would caution someone thinking it would be cheaper to build something that is produced in quantity. TRP and STI are both production guns, yes very well build, but production guns nevertheless. Real "custom" 45s runs in the range of $2k+++ and are built one at a time by a master smith. Production guns has the benefit of economy of scale (parts are cheaper per gun) build on an assembly line with very skilled individuals supervised by a master smith and get parts from a bin. For mass produced gun in a factory, they have even higher economy of scale, but generally suffers in the QA/QC as supervison is generally not involved in production but in HR. Therefore, for an individual to build a gun with same quality parts will generally cost more if someone else is doing the labor.

Now days in the world of automation, quality parts really means amount of QA/QC that the part has gone through and at what level of tolerance is consider within acceptable range. More QA/QC and tighter torlerance (relates to variable tooling cost) will result in higher cost for the part.

So a RIA frame compared to a STI frame may or may not have the same tolerance to the 1911 blue print. But you pay more for a STI to buy that assurance.

For me, tinkering is the hobby, building is the enjoyment, not the final product. I never sell anything relating to my hobby. I actually bought the $29 barrel first then decided to purchase the $600 Tac2011 to go with it. :facepalm:

RippSpeed
10-05-2011, 11:11 PM
Ever wonder why you never see full customs built on RIAs?

um maybe you havent but for me ... I have seen plenty...

STI, SV, Caspian isnt everything theres a whole world of guns out there and alot of IPSC shooters... That modify these pistols

And TRP's are selling @ $1700 without tax and dros ... Well thats what I was quoted for it @ a shop near me that has 19 in stock and only a few of them are called for...

zfields
10-05-2011, 11:25 PM
Do you realize how much work you'll need to do to the frame and rails and truing all the lines and fixing the sight cuts (you should probably grind off those terrible rollmarks while you're at it and add checkering)? You're looking at more than doubling the cost of the gun almost just to do that, and this is all before you even put a single new part in (replacing everything). Even if you don't go to a well known smith, I guarantee that comes out to more than a TRP (which goes for less than $1700).

And about resale, it's like modding a daily driver car and wondering why it's not the same as a supercar or a track car in both value and feel. Ever wonder why you never see full customs built on RIAs?

You adressed nothing reguarding resale.

Maybe the guy wants something that shoots reasonably well, and looks TRPish, and is one of the many people who buys guns because he enjoys them. By your standard, you shouldnt even shoot your weapon because, heaven-forbid, it hurt its resale value!

See how that point is ridiculous?

Cyc Wid It
10-05-2011, 11:34 PM
The point is if you're going to drop the big bucks and build a full custom pistol, you shouldn't scrimp on the frame. In some instances, the frame might not even be suitable if you're really trying to build a keeper. If you're tinkering around yourself then that's a different story.

A full custom RIA is never going to be worth anything unless maybe Larry Vickers deigned to work on it - Rippspeed said that a custom RIA would be worth more than a TRP. He also said that all the work to produce a custom RIA wouldn't cost as much as a TRP, when I'm trying to point out that it would cost around double and worth less.

Shooting a well made gun does little if anything to the resale value. Shooting a run of the mill gun often does.

zfields
10-05-2011, 11:36 PM
The point is if you're going to drop the big bucks and build a full custom pistol, you shouldn't scrimp on the frame. In some instances, the frame might not even be suitable if you're really trying to build a keeper. If you're tinkering around yourself then that's a different story.

A full custom RIA is never going to be worth anything unless maybe Larry Vickers deigned to work on it - Rippspeed said that a custom RIA would be worth more than a TRP.

Yea, not a chance id base a full house custom on a RIA either.


When your chunkin out that much change, why skimp on 1-200 bucks.

Cyc Wid It
10-05-2011, 11:38 PM
That's what I was getting at I guess, didn't word it very well.

RippSpeed
10-06-2011, 8:04 AM
The point is if you're going to drop the big bucks and build a full custom pistol, you shouldn't scrimp on the frame. In some instances, the frame might not even be suitable if you're really trying to build a keeper. If you're tinkering around yourself then that's a different story.

A full custom RIA is never going to be worth anything unless maybe Larry Vickers deigned to work on it - Rippspeed said that a custom RIA would be worth more than a TRP. He also said that all the work to produce a custom RIA wouldn't cost as much as a TRP, when I'm trying to point out that it would cost around double and worth less.

Shooting a well made gun does little if anything to the resale value. Shooting a run of the mill gun often does.

Where did I mention anything about the a custom RIA being worth more than a TRP ???

I said is a TRP is what it is stock ... it wont perform as good as a custom pistol in competent hands.

I dont know about you guys but I've priced one of because I want to build a 9mm for the wife to shoot and play around with... It'll end up cheaper than the price of a TRP w/ tax

keenkeen
10-06-2011, 8:14 AM
Where did I mention anything about the a custom RIA being worth more than a TRP ???

I said is a TRP is what it is stock ... it wont perform as good as a custom pistol in competent hands.

I dont know about you guys but I've priced one of because I want to build a 9mm for the wife to shoot and play around with... It'll end up cheaper than the price of a TRP w/ tax

Yeah...but only suckers pay tax! :p

Just kidding...thats a whole different thread.

I think you are under estimating the cost of building a "full custom" 1911 with even a non-brand name gunsmith. Assuming $450-500 for the base gun you would need have all the parts purchased and all the work done for around $1000 in order to come out cheaper than a stock TRP. Re-check your math, but if you want to do it, I'm sure it would be fun.

redcliff
10-06-2011, 10:20 AM
Where did I mention anything about the a custom RIA being worth more than a TRP ???

I said is a TRP is what it is stock ... it wont perform as good as a custom pistol in competent hands.

I dont know about you guys but I've priced one of because I want to build a 9mm for the wife to shoot and play around with... It'll end up cheaper than the price of a TRP w/ tax

I wasn't aware they built TRP's in 9mm; so not sure what the comparison in price really means.

This thread leaves me ponderring a few questions; why did the OP not just install an adjustable sight on his original RIA slide (and properly bury the Bomar while at it?) Although bull barrels can reduce felt recoil and muzzle flip they're no more accurate than a properly fit standard barrel/bushing. If it was just an exercise in pistol modification and assembly I respect that but as far as shootability I think a relatively simple slide milling and sight changed would of worked as well and looked better.

For those that want a target grade RIA why not buy the match version and see how it shoots; you can always add a trigger job and custom sized bushing if needed.

For those wanting to build custom pistols I have no problem if budget dictates using a cast RIA frame, but I personally prefer forged frames if I'm going to invest that much money in a project.

The concept of "over-improving" a product comes into play at high levels of custom work on pistols; just as in cars and homes. If you're spending a lot of money "improving" something its generally best to do it on the most desireable and wanted models available.

Cali-Shooter
10-06-2011, 10:57 AM
Nice conversion job!

It's a Franken TRP! :) Would make an excellent shooter without worries of wanting to baby it.

RippSpeed
10-06-2011, 1:57 PM
ok Lets put it this way... Who here can buy an STI or Caspian frame legally here in California thats Brand New @ retail price, not the marked up price of $900+, what private sellers are asking???

The way I see, if I wanted to build a double stack 1911 ... I would have to buy a RIA 1911A2 or a ParaOrdnance P16, P14, P18. To use the frame, build it from there ... I would rather spend alittle less money and get the RIA from there ...

And for my wife who wants a commander lenght pistol in 9mm , the same reason I would purchase a RIA commander pistol and just buy it for the frame...

shipwreck
10-06-2011, 2:14 PM
No worthwhile 1911 gunsmith would even build a custom build using a RIA.

Heck - go buy a Springer GI if ya really want to do that - they'll work on that before they mess with a cast RIA.

walmart_ar15
11-18-2011, 9:39 AM
Range Update

ssteve
11-18-2011, 5:44 PM
Didnt know that tactical with rail was on the roster....?

Lead Waster
11-18-2011, 6:00 PM
OP, I know you didn't try it out, but I wonder if the original Tac2011 would shoot better than the franken TRP?

As for custom guns, well, what is the desired final product in 1911s? I'm guessing an accurate, precise, reliable, good looking pistol with nice ergos. Nothing says you can't get that in a "cheaper" pistol.

Honestly, my RIA Tactical gives me a lot of the 1911 perks (nice forgiving trigger, etc, etc) and that's all I want really. Maybe the OP just wants a project gun that he worked on himself and gives a certain look. Well that's what he's done and buying a TRP wouldn't have given him that.

Well done, now ... paint that slide or something man!

chim-chim7
11-18-2011, 7:32 PM
Hows the slide to frame rail fit?

walmart_ar15
11-18-2011, 8:07 PM
OP, I know you didn't try it out, but I wonder if the original Tac2011 would shoot better than the franken TRP?

I'll try it next time out. It's prob a good bet. Everything on the TAC2011 is tight.

now ... paint that slide or something man!

LOL, guess not going to win any beauty contest.

Oldnoob
11-19-2011, 10:38 AM
Good job OP.

walmart_ar15
11-19-2011, 9:01 PM
Hows the slide to frame rail fit?

The frame needs to fit two sets of slides (original & franken) so I was only able to tune the lateral movement tighter than the vertical. I had to leave about 0.4mm movement vertically compared to zero laterally.

vmwerks
11-26-2011, 10:44 AM
Great work on that, and decent accuracy too - a TRP will shoot a group about 1/2 that size at the same distance though.