PDA

View Full Version : 2A and CA Mock Trial 2011-12012


Teacher Sp Ed
09-30-2011, 1:08 PM
This year the issue in California's Mock Trial Program pretrial motion phase is "is the California Concealed Carry Statute unconstitutional as a violation of both the 2nd and 14th Amendments of the US Constitution".

The facts are that the defendent when arrested was carrying a loaded concealed handgun. He was of legal age and had fully complied with all of the Sheriffs requirements for a permit. The handgun was legally registered to him.

A panel of 4 Sheriff's deputies with a least 15 years experience met and discussed his application. Like the Sheriff's Department had done in all but 10 out of 117 cases in the last 5 years (8.5%) denied the application.

The 10 permits granted were to prosecutors, a federal judge and several merchants who transported high value merchandise.

Cases cited for review are Heller, McDonald, Peruta, Engstrum, Luedtke, Ellison and Yarbrough.

The law reviews (70 Md.L. Rev..1131), (7 Rutgers J.L. & Pub.Pol'y 359), (50 Santa Clara L. Rev. 1095) and (105 NW.U. L. Rev. Colloquy 72).

I have the honor of being the Teacher/Attorney Coach for my high school. This is the first time in 30 years that this District has fielded a team in Mock Trial competition.

It is an awesome responsibility.

ILVSMOG
09-30-2011, 1:12 PM
Congratulations and good luck! I participated in Mock Trial when I was in High School and it was a great experience. It's good to hear that they're using a 2A related case as well. That's great exposure for the kids and gives teachers like you a perfect opportunity to educate them on 2A issues and debunk the FUD.

ETD1010
09-30-2011, 2:49 PM
I did mock trial in High School.. It was so much fun. I would have LOVED to have had this as a case!!!!

Ubermcoupe
09-30-2011, 6:00 PM
Awesome! Keep us posted about the details. Do they need role-players? :)

sixtus
09-30-2011, 6:08 PM
I would happily be a roleplayer in this.

Equis
09-30-2011, 6:12 PM
Sounds awesome, I did this also in high school. It was a great experience, we placed 2nd in our city. It was an achievment since my school was considered where all the thugs end up, we lost to the school where you needed a placement exam to get in.

hoffmang
09-30-2011, 9:25 PM
You'll want to make sure to add the Richards v. Prieto briefs and the facts around Sacramento County settling into the prep.

-Gene

PsychGuy274
10-01-2011, 2:03 PM
Will there be video or at least audio of this? This is awesome!!!

sfpcservice
10-01-2011, 2:52 PM
Maybe Jason Davis would want to phone conference after the OP has reviewed the briefs and case law? Seems like a good opportunity to maximize our impression on the folks involved with the mock trial. I'd give him a call or at least get ahold of some of the CGF board members for some strategy tips! Good luck and sounds fun.

Teacher Sp Ed
10-01-2011, 7:18 PM
I will contact Jason Davis, as far as legal research we can only refer to the cases and law reviews provided however any information that I can glean from other sources... amicus briefs etc. will benefit my students and help develop their thought process just cannot refer to them by name.

If any one else has suggestions about who I can talk to let me know. I have not put much in my profile section but I am an attorney, albeit m and a law. I now teach sp ed law at the university level and practice as a sp ed advocate.

We do 2 practice rounds at the end of Jan and 4 competitive rounds in Feb.

I will put out the request now that if any attorneys in the Alameda County are interested in serving as scorers or judges or are willing to come talk to my class. It would be appreciated

anthonyca
10-01-2011, 7:27 PM
Have you heard of Don Kilmer? He is from San Jose and was the first lawyer ( before going en banc) to win a ruling saying that the second amendment was incorporated.

He has an interesting case now called Enos v Holder.

sfpcservice
10-01-2011, 7:34 PM
Have you heard of Don Kilmer? He is from San Jose and was the first lawyer ( before going en banc) to win a ruling saying that the second amendment was incorporated.

He has an interesting case now called Enos v Holder.

+1

Any CGF Lawyer would be a great resource!

Teacher Sp Ed
10-02-2011, 1:17 PM
I have been reading in this forum for several years and have been following the cases closely. I have permits from Utah and Florida. I will look at Enos. I need to find the thread with all of the Amicus Briefs for Peruta. That will provide good material for my students.

kf6tac
10-02-2011, 5:35 PM
That's pretty awesome. CA Mock Trial had a 2nd Amendment-related pretrial motion back when I was in high school (~15 years ago), but it was a total stacked deck at that point. No good case law at all was provided in the materials, partially because there wasn't much that existed.

Librarian
10-02-2011, 6:50 PM
I have been reading in this forum for several years and have been following the cases closely. I have permits from Utah and Florida. I will look at Enos. I need to find the thread with all of the Amicus Briefs for Peruta. That will provide good material for my students.

See this for Enos -- http://archive.recapthelaw.org/caed/215824/

and these -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Peruta_v._County_of_San_Diego, http://archive.recapthelaw.org/casd/308678/ -- for Peruta

Teacher Sp Ed
10-02-2011, 7:21 PM
Thank you Librarian for the thread references, anthonyca, I will call Mr.Kilmer and extend an invitation to come to Hayward and speak to the Mock Trial contingent.

I will also extend the same invitation to any other Calguns lawyers who might like the opportunity to speak to high school students on this issue.

This 2A pretrial motion is the same for all high school in CA participating in the Mock Trial program. As I type and think about it I think that I will post on Ruger Forum. I think there are some attorneys who visit that site.

In Alameda County we need scorers for 4 trials in February at Court House in Oakland. if anyone is interested in this issue you can call the County Office of Education in your area...ask for the Mock Trial Coordinator and ask indicate that you would be willing to score for this year.

She will be delighted to hear from you and we can spread the word to a new generation.

Kharn
10-03-2011, 1:47 AM
Can you cite Dredd Scott? There's a wonderful line in there that if blacks were full citizens they could "keep and carry arms whereever they went"

J.D.Allen
10-03-2011, 8:03 AM
One of the DDA's here in Imperial co. is a coach for the mock trials. He called me over the other day and asked for my input on the issues involved in this one. There was another DDA present and he was telling her how the "unchecked discretion" that the sheriffs have over LTC's is so unfair and how it's a fourteenth amendment violation how people in one county can get a LTC when people who are similarly situated in another county can't due to the capricious decision of one person. I was impressed. He asked me to help him coach one of the kids that's going to participate in the mock trial.

I think I'm making some pretty good progress with the DDA's here...

curtisfong
10-03-2011, 9:47 AM
This is plain amazing! I participated in Mock Trials when I was in high school here in CA, and it was really really fantastic experience. It taught me more about the law, civil rights, US history, the constitution, political science, etc. than all my other HS classes combined.

Astonishing that the case is directly 2A related this year. Should be some good fireworks. Good luck to all the teams competing.

Librarian
10-03-2011, 11:24 AM
Do you also have the sites for McDonald and Heller?

http://www.chicagoguncase.com/

http://dcguncase.com/blog/

sfpcservice
10-03-2011, 2:40 PM
Can you cite Dredd Scott? There's a wonderful line in there that if blacks were full citizens they could "keep and carry arms whereever they went"

Good point! You can do a little digging and read about the racism involved in passing the concealed carry laws and loaded carry laws of california.

If I'm not mistaken, the current Concealed carry law was passed in about 1923 with the intent of keeping permits out of the hands of Hispanics and Chinese and the current ban on loaded carry was a result of the black panthers carrying at the State Capitol in the 60's.

jeff762
10-03-2011, 3:18 PM
it would be ironic if the children acually get it.

Teacher Sp Ed
10-03-2011, 7:11 PM
Librarian, I do now thanks for the information. Tomorrow I start asking students who wants to do what. Arguing the pretrial motion is more like a debate. Pretrial attorneys do not get to call witnesses etc., that is for the trial attorneys of which there will be three on each side, each making part of the case for defense and prosecution.

I think that I will have 2 or 3 students on each side of the issue studying for the pretrial motion need some depth and try outs. Will keep everyone posted as this progresses.

Mulay El Raisuli
10-10-2011, 5:29 AM
Just too cool.

So, when is the actual mock trial?


The Raisuli