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CCWFacts
09-30-2011, 11:29 AM
Fruitvale merchants are increasingly arming themselves, concerned that Oakland’s overburdened police force is unable to defend them against a wave of violent crime that has crippled the local economy and made them fear for their safety.

The Oakland Police Department lost 80 officers to budget cuts last year — more than 10 percent of the force. Officials acknowledge that they are increasingly faced with hard choices over where to devote resources.

Sgt. Holly Joshi, a spokeswoman, said the police did not object to residents’ acquiring licensed weapons.

Source (http://www.baycitizen.org/crime/story/fruitvale-merchants-armed-and-wary/)

Licensed weapons? Huh? There's no license needed for ordinary handguns and long guns in California. I'm sure it's a misquote or misstatement and Sgt. Joshi was referring to legally-owned weapons.

I wish Oakland's merchants would join the fight for CCW reform in that city, by making it an issue in the city council races. I bet these merchants are illegally carrying to and from work, or are being sloppy with adherence to the intricacies of the laws about things like school zones and so on.

bwiese
09-30-2011, 11:34 AM
CCWfacts...

Please look on this statement favorably.

The PR person likely doesn't know the details/requirements of CA gun paperwork and was using that to generically mean "lawfully acquired firearms".

That's much different than typical urban PD response, "We urge nonconfrontational response, you put yourself at more risk, give them your money, yadayada, you might hurt someone...."


[Oaklander has reported favorable outreach to OPD senior brass....]

POLICESTATE
09-30-2011, 11:37 AM
Good. Fact is police cannot protect them anyway. Not unless they want to literally guard businesses, but that would not be policing, that would be guarding.

I see unprotected people all the time, hell I'm unprotected at the moment since I lack a feasible means to defend myself.

dantodd
09-30-2011, 11:37 AM
That is really a heart breaking story. I really hope the shop owners and residents are able to take back their neighborhood.

berto
09-30-2011, 11:39 AM
I'm thrilled that the piece isn't a hit on paranoid merchants with a statement from OPD about cooperating with robbers and letting the police handle it. Good for the merchants.

CCWFacts
09-30-2011, 11:44 AM
That's much different than typical urban PD response, "We urge nonconfrontational response, you put yourself at more risk, give them your money, yadayada, you might hurt someone...."

That is true and I did notice that distinction. I seem to remember earlier statements from various Bay Area PDs that complying with robbers is the Right Thing To Do. Yes, we were told, you should trust your life to someone who is an armed drug-addicted psychopath, because you can trust that person to be rational about the situation. This whole issue is quite personal to me unfortunately...

This new statement is a huge improvement from that previous viewpoint, where Oakland PD is basically endorsing the idea.

Wherryj
09-30-2011, 11:54 AM
On the Fruitvale stretch of International Boulevard, the commercial heart of East Oakland, Valentino Torres, owner of La Torta Loca sandwich shop, displays an arsenal of knives, clubs, swords, nun-chucks and machetes on the wall “as a warning,” he said.
Source: The Bay Citizen (http://s.tt/13nuZ)
Perhaps someone at the CGF could contact this guy before he gets himself into serious legal trouble?

CCWFacts
09-30-2011, 11:57 AM
nun-chucks and machetes on the wall “as a warning,”
Perhaps someone at the CGF could contact this guy before he gets himself into serious legal trouble?

Wow, good catch. You're right, someone needs to contact him before Oakland PD notices that and gets another weapon "off the street".

Wherryj
09-30-2011, 12:02 PM
Wow, good catch. You're right, someone needs to contact him before Oakland PD notices that and gets another weapon "off the street".

I tried to find a contact email, etc. but can't find anything. If anyone knows how to discretely contact the owner, please do so. Just a statement in an article shouldn't be enough to get him charged, but if they were to walk in and see the item on the wall that might be an entirely different matter.

Tripper
09-30-2011, 12:05 PM
I'm sure the nun-chucks were disassembled, and therefore just parts....

i looked at the picture, and cant see the chucks though

oni.dori
09-30-2011, 12:31 PM
Licensed weapons? Huh?...

Many reporters and spokespeople (police and otherwise) simply parrot whatever they themselves have heard on the news, tv, or movies, without first fact checking whatsoever. Seems to be SOP these days.

MindBuilder
09-30-2011, 12:43 PM
I'd say California law does require licenses for newly acquired or imported handguns. It's not called a license of course, it's called registration. But off hand, I can't think of any significant difference. A handgun safety certificate is also required, which when combined with registration, completes the similarity to a license.

supersonic
09-30-2011, 12:50 PM
Oakland really needs its share of Harry Callahans and Paul Kerseys. The violent crime rate would friggin' plummet.:cool: :thumbsup:

oni.dori
09-30-2011, 1:14 PM
I'd say California law does require licenses for newly acquired or imported handguns. It's not called a license of course, it's called registration. But off hand, I can't think of any significant difference. A handgun safety certificate is also required, which when combined with registration, completes the similarity to a license.

But why assume tht the firearms obtained were automatically handguns? For all we know,they could have been shotguns. In fact, I would wager that most people who were not well versed in firearms for self defense would go for a shotgun because it would seem less "evil" to them, seem like it would be more "intimidating" to the person they were trying to defend against, and be less complicated to use.

GWbiker
09-30-2011, 1:32 PM
Alameda county issuing gun permits to Oakland businessmen, so they can carry when they leave store to deposit cash?......:confused:

Decoligny
09-30-2011, 1:32 PM
"On the Fruitvale stretch of International Boulevard, the commercial heart of East Oakland, Valentino Torres, owner of La Torta Loca sandwich shop, displays an arsenal of knives, clubs, (violation of PC 12020) swords, nun-chucks (violation of PC 12020) and machetes on the wall “as a warning,” he said. Across the street, Agustina Sugia, the owner of Taquería 16 de Septiembre, keeps a metal bat (violation of PC 12020) under a supply of paper cups beneath the counter."

These shop owners would be better served by keeping a loaded concealed handgun, or shotgun close at hand in their shops.

oni.dori
09-30-2011, 3:11 PM
Metal bats are illegal in CA now!? :confused:

Tripper
09-30-2011, 3:26 PM
Metal bats are illegal in CA now!? :confused:

i think somewhere along the line, anything that is designated as a offensive or defensive weapon, in the above example, its implied that the metal bat is there as a defensive weapon

Dreaded Claymore
09-30-2011, 3:41 PM
CCWfacts...

Please look on this statement favorably.

The PR person likely doesn't know the details/requirements of CA gun paperwork and was using that to generically mean "lawfully acquired firearms".

That's much different than typical urban PD response, "We urge nonconfrontational response, you put yourself at more risk, give them your money, yadayada, you might hurt someone...."


[Oaklander has reported favorable outreach to OPD senior brass....]

This. The fact of the matter is, almost everyone believes that some kind of license and registration is necessary for owning a gun. It's easy for them to believe that because they hear this kind of phrase on the news, which makes the ignorance self-reinforcing.

I got reminded of this when my fool stepfather got angry that I owned a pistol (he considered it a frivolous waste of money). He angrily asked it the gun was registered to me, and I had to patiently explain to him that there is no such requirement.

supersonic
09-30-2011, 4:47 PM
I got reminded of this when my fool stepfather got angry that I owned a pistol (he considered it a frivolous waste of money). He angrily asked it the gun was registered to me, and I had to patiently explain to him that there is no such requirement.

Actually, with the exception of handguns older than 50 years (C&R), your legally-acquired pistols' serial numbers are registered in your name. That's how a cop can run the numbers to find out if a handgun is, in fact, owned by you.

JDoe
09-30-2011, 6:17 PM
On the Fruitvale stretch of International Boulevard, the commercial heart of East Oakland, Valentino Torres, owner of La Torta Loca sandwich shop, displays an arsenal of knives, clubs, swords, nun-chucks and machetes on the wall “as a warning,” he said.
Source: The Bay Citizen (http://s.tt/13nuZ)
Perhaps someone at the CGF could contact this guy before he gets himself into serious legal trouble?

http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/6/86425/restaurant/La-Torta-Loca-Oakland

Librarian
09-30-2011, 6:51 PM
Actually, with the exception of handguns older than 50 years (C&R), your legally-acquired pistols' serial numbers are registered in your name. That's how a cop can run the numbers to find out if a handgun is, in fact, owned by you.

Well, no - see the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Firearms_registration

Only handguns that have been legally transferred through an FFL in CA since 1991 are sure to have been registered through DROS. Other handguns that went through a CA gun dealer before then also were registered, but before 1991 a FTF sale was legal without an FFL involved.

supersonic
09-30-2011, 8:32 PM
Well, no - see the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Firearms_registration

Only handguns that have been legally transferred through an FFL in CA since 1991 are sure to have been registered through DROS. Other handguns that went through a CA gun dealer before then also were registered, but before 1991 a FTF sale was legal without an FFL involved.

Ok, let me rephrase that: Any handgun that is legally purchased now (and any in the last 20+ years) is registered & is in LE/Govt database.;) (My original statement is still valid in context to the topic)

emcon5
09-30-2011, 9:55 PM
Actually, with the exception of handguns older than 50 years (C&R), your legally-acquired pistols' serial numbers are registered in your name. That's how a cop can run the numbers to find out if a handgun is, in fact, owned by you.

Depends on when you got them. Registration was not required on transfers until 1990, IIRC.

And C&R pistols are not exempt from registration.

dantodd
09-30-2011, 10:18 PM
I tried to find a contact email, etc. but can't find anything. If anyone knows how to discretely contact the owner, please do so. Just a statement in an article shouldn't be enough to get him charged, but if they were to walk in and see the item on the wall that might be an entirely different matter.

We actually have a great resource in Oakland, pretty close to Fruitvale. My guess is that this resource had something to do with this article being done. I'm pretty confident someone will get in touch with the store owner and make sure he's up to code so he can keep clear in the eyes of the law.

dfletcher
09-30-2011, 11:25 PM
"Sgt. Holly Joshi, a spokeswoman, said the police did not object to residents’ acquiring licensed weapons."

I atttended a neighborhood meeting near the Financial District a while back, there had recently been a robbery at one of the local restaurants - waiters tied up, people generally mistreated. When asked what people should do to be safe the SFPD Sergeant made a few suggestions about awareness then finished with "and if you want, buy a gun and learn how to use it".

Falconis
10-01-2011, 12:08 AM
Licensed could easily mean legally acquired. Either way, this is a positive first step as bweise stated. Not everyone is well versed in firearms language or knows all the intricacies that everyone here has developed ...

PR people, no matter if they are police reps or corporate reps have to convey a sense of responsibility when they give statements.

supersonic
10-01-2011, 8:04 AM
Depends on when you got them. Registration was not required on transfers until 1990, IIRC.

See post #23.

Mulay El Raisuli
10-01-2011, 9:30 AM
"Sgt. Holly Joshi, a spokeswoman, said the police did not object to residents’ acquiring licensed weapons."

I atttended a neighborhood meeting near the Financial District a while back, there had recently been a robbery at one of the local restaurants - waiters tied up, people generally mistreated. When asked what people should do to be safe the SFPD Sergeant made a few suggestions about awareness then finished with "and if you want, buy a gun and learn how to use it".


Cops saying that they approve of citizens having guns. More, cops from 'Frisco & Oakland saying so. This is where the news is. True, we don't need their approval, but that there is such a change in attitude is big news.


The Raisuli