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View Full Version : President ACLU, Oct 5th, San Fran


nicki
09-29-2011, 2:05 AM
See link.

http://action.aclu.org/site/MessageViewer?em_id=80402.0&dlv_id=82290


I can't make it since I work eves and cant' get time off on short notice. In any of you guys can make it, it would be a good way to try to do some outreach in a "positive manner'.

The ACLU is always going after the police. If they are happen to be targeting our opponents, it is smart for us to give them extra ammo.

The legal scholars have shifted over to our side and some state ACLU chapters have stepped up to support the 2nd amendment.

Nicki

Pixs
09-29-2011, 11:23 AM
Thanks for the link.

G60
09-29-2011, 11:38 AM
I'm hoping local chapters put pressure on ACLU national to change this soon:
http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice_prisoners-rights_drug-law-reform_immigrants-rights/second-amendment

"the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right...The Supreme Court has now ruled otherwise...The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment..."

curtisfong
09-29-2011, 11:39 AM
A+++

We need some ACLU outreach big time.

tankarian
09-29-2011, 11:49 AM
I'm hoping local chapters put pressure on ACLU national to change this soon:
http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice_prisoners-rights_drug-law-reform_immigrants-rights/second-amendment

"the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right...The Supreme Court has now ruled otherwise...The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment..."

Making friends with the Devil...yeah, that's always a good idea.
Next think you know somebody will propose sending a rose bouquet to Sarah Brady :facepalm:

Maestro Pistolero
09-29-2011, 12:01 PM
ACLU supports 2A rights in NV, proving the existence of snowflakes in hell or at least, in the desert.

Connor P Price
09-29-2011, 12:33 PM
I don't see any reason that the ACLU wouldn't end up on our side. The tide has been moving in our direction in their state chapters.

tankarian
09-29-2011, 12:46 PM
I don't see any reason that the ACLU wouldn't end up on our side.

I'll give you a reason why: The ACLU Never Forgets Its Pro-Communist Roots (http://townhall.com/columnists/alansears/2007/06/16/the_aclu_never_forgets_its_pro-communist_roots/page/full/)

Bio of ACLU founder (http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1579)

"I am for socialism, disarmament, and ultimately, for abolishing the state itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion. I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the properties class, and sole control of those who produce wealth. Communism is the goal. It all sums up into one single purpose -- the abolition of dog-eat-dog under which we live. I don't regret being part of the communist tactic. I knew what I was doing. I was not an innocent liberal. I wanted what the communists wanted and I traveled the United Front road to get it."
--Roger Nash Baldwin, founder of the American Civil Liberties Union

A tiger's stripes never change.

Connor P Price
09-29-2011, 1:01 PM
I'll give you a reason why: The ACLU Never Forgets Its Pro-Communist Roots (http://townhall.com/columnists/alansears/2007/06/16/the_aclu_never_forgets_its_pro-communist_roots/page/full/)

Bio of ACLU founder (http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1579)


A tiger's stripes never change.

Individuals with views as extreme as that certainly don't generally change a whole lot, but you seem to misunderstand my point. The ACLU is not an individual, its an organization, and organizations most certainly change in big ways because the people they are made up of change.

The ACLU is made up of many state chapters, some of which have already begun leaning in our direction, as that continues it will naturally lead to more pro gun involvement on a national level.

tankarian
09-29-2011, 1:07 PM
Individuals with views as extreme as that certainly don't generally change a whole lot, but you seem to misunderstand my point. The ACLU is not an individual, its an organization, and organizations most certainly change in big ways because the people they are made up of change.

The ACLU is made up of many state chapters, some of which have already begun leaning in our direction, as that continues it will naturally lead to more pro gun involvement on a national level.


Wishful thinking. Disarmament is clearly stated in the ACLU credo as it was put on paper by its very own founding father.

nicki
09-29-2011, 1:13 PM
Yes the ACLU has "communist roots".

That being said, the NRA in the past supported discriminatory CCW laws, restrictions on guns for minorities, supported the NFA of 1934.

The NRA changed over the years. There is no reason the ACLU can't change on gun rights.

The people who founded the ACLU are DEAD. There are many differences I have with the ACLU, but I will look for areas we can agree on.

If it wasn't for the ACLU, many of our other "rights" would be "gone".

The ACLU will not become a "Conservative organization", but they can move to being a "Left of center Libertarian" organization.

If the rest of the bill of rights is gone, it won't take long for our gun rights to be gone.

One thing the ACLU is very strong on is first amendment rights. If we can tie that the second amendment is critical for survival of the first, we could start swinging them over to our side.

State Senator Mark Leno (D San Francisco) is not our friend, yet he is heavily pushing "open government reforms". One thing he wants to do is make "public records" put online.

Imagine how much easier our CCW sunshine project would be if sheriff's had to put everything we need online.

Of course longterm we want CCW info to be private, but as long as it is "may issue", public records access is critical in our battles to win.

Many of the sheriffs we don't like are dirty on other areas of civil rights, in short, they are out of control.

Milsurp Collector
09-29-2011, 1:25 PM
A tiger's stripes never change.

But a person's opinions can change.

In 1927, Baldwin had visited the Soviet Union and wrote a book, Liberty Under the Soviets. Originally, at the beginning of the ACLU, he had said, "Communism, of course, is the goal." Later, however, as more and more information came out about Stalin's regime in the Soviet Union, Baldwin became more and more disillusioned with Soviet-style communism and called it "A NEW SLAVERY" (capitalized in the original). He condemned "the inhuman communist police state tyranny". In the 1940s, Baldwin led the campaign to purge the ACLU of Communist Party members.

Ronald Reagan was once a liberal Democrat who denounced corporate profits rising faster than wages, and "Republican inflation".

uJDhS4oUm0M

If someone quoted only that speech you might think Ronald Reagan was a lifetime liberal who "never changed his stripes".

Using old outdated quotes to give a misleading picture of someone's beliefs is a propaganda technique worthy of socialists and Communists. ;)

1JimMarch
09-29-2011, 1:28 PM
The Arizona chapter of the ACLU (state level and local branches such as the Southern Arizona chapter) have gone 100% our way on the 2nd, revolting against the national org. Same as Nevada and I don't think those are the only two.

curtisfong
09-29-2011, 1:29 PM
Ridiculous. The ACLU has already stepped up to bat in several states. Furthermore, it is an organization, not an individual.

Even more ridiculous is that this is some sort of a half-baked excuse to NOT try to influence the ACLU.

Untamed1972
09-29-2011, 2:05 PM
I'm hoping local chapters put pressure on ACLU national to change this soon:
http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice_prisoners-rights_drug-law-reform_immigrants-rights/second-amendment

"the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right...The Supreme Court has now ruled otherwise...The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment..."

Gotta love that. "We are here to fight your civil rights......except the ones we dont agree with." :rolleyes: :facepalm:

uyoga
09-29-2011, 2:11 PM
People change as they become more enlightened.

Civil Rights are Civil Rights.

Bob Barr, past US Congressman, also a Member of the NRA Boerd of Directors - also a distinguished member of the ACLU.

There are probably a whole lot of ACLU members who also (perhaps in the closet) support Second Amendment rights.

If we don't try, we'll never know. If we don't ask, the answer will always be no.

curtisfong
09-29-2011, 2:18 PM
Ultimately, it doesn't matter what ACLU national says.

All that is important is what the ACLU does for you locally. We have other (much more competent) heavy hitters handling SCOTUS for us on the 2A front.

a1c
09-29-2011, 2:20 PM
I have been a proud NRA and ACLU card carrier for years.

tankarian
09-29-2011, 2:37 PM
Yes the ACLU has "communist roots".

That being said, the NRA in the past supported discriminatory CCW laws, restrictions on guns for minorities, supported the NFA of 1934.

The NRA changed over the years. There is no reason the ACLU can't change on gun rights.



As a matter of fact, ACLU didn't changed over the years. See their statement regarding the Heller decision. It was made just a little over two years ago, so the "changing over time" argument has no validity.
Yes, the Nevada ACLU chapter issued a dissenting statement; but they are simply the exception that confirms the rule. The rest of the 49 ACLU state chapters had fallen in line with the "2nd is not an individual right" opinion.
So please call me back when at least 1/2 of the ACLU chapters change their stance. Till then, they are nothing more than a bunch of gun grabbing communist basturds.

Wherryj
09-29-2011, 3:22 PM
I'm hoping local chapters put pressure on ACLU national to change this soon:
http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice_prisoners-rights_drug-law-reform_immigrants-rights/second-amendment

"the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right...The Supreme Court has now ruled otherwise...The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment..."

This is even more telling:
In our view, neither the possession of guns nor the regulation of guns raises a civil liberties issue

a1c
09-29-2011, 3:32 PM
As a matter of fact, ACLU didn't changed over the years. See their statement regarding the Heller decision. It was made just a little over two years ago, so the "changing over time" argument has no validity.
Yes, the Nevada ACLU chapter issued a dissenting statement; but they are simply the exception that confirms the rule. The rest of the 49 ACLU state chapters had fallen in line with the "2nd is not an individual right" opinion.
So please call me back when at least 1/2 of the ACLU chapters change their stance. Till then, they are nothing more than a bunch of gun grabbing communist basturds.

Let us know when one of their actions actually impacts 2A rights. Until then, you are just having a knee-jerk reaction.

The NRA and the CGF defend your 2A rights. The ACLU defends your 1A, 4A, 5A and many other civil rights - including, in some specific cases, your 2A rights.

anthonyca
09-29-2011, 4:18 PM
Wishful thinking. Disarmament is clearly stated in the ACLU credo as it was put on paper by its very own founding father.

Boston is the birthplace of liberty and the last place many thought would piss on the constitution. http://mobile.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=378378

We can't have this defeatist attitude. We need to infiltrate and inject liberty into these organizations.

tankarian
09-29-2011, 4:34 PM
L
The NRA and the CGF defend your 2A rights. The ACLU defends your 1A, 4A, 5A and many other civil rights - including, in some specific cases, your 2A rights.

Logic fail.
NRA and CGF never issued any statement stating that 1A, 4A, 5A and many other civil rights are collective, not individual rights. I dare you to find a single instance where they declared something so blatantly idiotic.
ACLU did just that with the 2nd.

SwissFluCase
09-29-2011, 6:54 PM
I don't think the ACLU's membership has 100% consensus with their official position. I think their official position can change, but it won't happen quickly. The senior leadership will need to cycle out first. I predict that they will eventually change.

I doubt defending the 2nd Amendment will ever be a part of their mission. There are more, bigger, and better funded groups that will do that. They have their niche, and as far as I am concerned they are totally justified in not straying from it.

If the government passes a law or policy authorizing warrantless searches to look for firearms you *will* see them go into action. That exact scenario has played out before, including in CA.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

yellowfin
09-29-2011, 7:10 PM
I'll believe the ACLU's stance on the 1st Amendment when they push for the Free Exercise of Christian religious expression rather than just using the Establishment clause to stamp it out of existence in public. Likewise when they stand up for the 4th and 8th Amendment rights of law abiding gun owners (particularly male middle class caucasian ones) in NY, NYC, NJ, MA, and MD rather than just scumbags, I'll believe they support that too. I really, really would like to believe that they stand for good and really mean it, but most of what I see just hasn't pointed that way. By the way, NOBODY has stood up against gun laws on 8th Amendment basis yet and that's WAY overdue.

huntercf
09-29-2011, 7:41 PM
I'll give you a reason why: The ACLU Never Forgets Its Pro-Communist Roots (http://townhall.com/columnists/alansears/2007/06/16/the_aclu_never_forgets_its_pro-communist_roots/page/full/)

Bio of ACLU founder (http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1579)


A tiger's stripes never change.

+1000
I'm sorry, I have NO desire to be associated with those scum sucking leeches on society. The ACLU is not our friend nor will they ever be. The very little good they might do is outweighed by all the extensive damage they have done to our country.

Falconis
09-29-2011, 9:23 PM
Sorry Nicki, this really feels like you are trying to bed the devil. A lot of information can be spun to see them as one would like others to see them, but considering the totality of what the ACLU is and their conduct (even recently) overall, this just feels like a situation that's ripe to burn anyone in the gun community <sorry for the run on>.

Even on the 1A front, I think the BOR says freedom of, not stamping one out to let others flourish. To me, the ACLU is attempting to stamp out Christianity for the benefit of everyone else, including those who do not believe in anything.

A prime example of this was a class given to us by those scumbags who wanted the majority of us to remove Christmas ornamentation from our office cubicles because it "may" offend others. Although they were hypocritical when it came to the ornamentation of other religions in the cubicles year round, they were at a loss for words when we repeatedly asked why we were not allowed to express our religion in the office space.

I don't care what anyone says or if everyone thinks I am crazy, but I think those A holes want nothing more than to destroy the very principles on which this country was founded then reform it into their own perverse image.

Like other have stated, even if they do get into bed with us on 2A issues for whatever reason, I just think it's a matter of time before they pull the run out from under us. I don't see them making any significant contributions to our cause here and possibly irreparably damaging us down the road.

curtisfong
09-29-2011, 10:17 PM
including those who do not believe in anything.


You mean those that just believe in one less god, rather than those who believe in nobody's (almost uncountable) gods but a single one.

a1c
09-29-2011, 10:28 PM
I'll believe the ACLU's stance on the 1st Amendment when they push for the Free Exercise of Christian religious expression rather than just using the Establishment clause to stamp it out of existence in public.

Sounds like you need to do some reading.
http://www.aclu.org/aclu-defense-religious-practice-and-expression

Falconis
09-29-2011, 11:14 PM
Hey Curtis sorry if I was unclear. What it boiled down to was that if you're the popular religion around, everything you do is evil. They're message was that if you (Christians) offend any other religion or the atheists, you're doing evil.

Frankly, I could care less what someone believes in or doesn't. Like I said, to me, the 1st Amendment says freedom of, not the equal/biased oppression of.

Window_Seat
09-29-2011, 11:39 PM
Wearing flip flops is never a bad thing, especially when it's in favor of getting off on the right foot.

Erik; put on a pair long ago.