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Ccraig38
09-28-2011, 10:53 PM
Hello all,

I recently got my new Sig P226R Navy in 9mm, all thanks to yzernie (thanks Ernie!). I've had it for 3 weeks and already put 650 rounds down range. Prior to buying it, my cousin went through the police academy and was very anti-Sig and pro-Glock. His argument was that the Sig trigger was gritty and not very smooth. I've personally never had that problem, however I noticed my trigger is kind of "snagy". I finally traced it down to Part 28 - the Safety lever. When it's in a certain position (more down), the trigger snags, then gives and continues smoothly until the 4.4 pounds of force is applied. This is all in the single action position. It's been getting to me and I can't find much information about it online. I was wondering if anyone has any ideas or comments on how to fix this. I don't have a short trigger installed on it but I am considering one. Also, let me know if you want me to take some pictures to show what I'm talking about. Thanks for any help/advice in advance.

Cal

GWbiker
09-28-2011, 10:58 PM
This is the place where the SIG experts roost.......

http://sigforum.com/

Ccraig38
09-28-2011, 11:07 PM
This is the place where the SIG experts roost.......

http://sigforum.com/

I would, however I can't create an account because their registration e-mail system is messed up. Apparently they don't allow @gmail.com accounts... Odd.

unusedusername
09-29-2011, 12:07 AM
There is a local guy at Valkyrie Arms that does Sigs, he may be able to help you out.

tacticalcity
09-29-2011, 1:11 AM
What most Glock fanboys like myself like about the Glock is that it has the same trigger pull every single time and of the Glock-like guns has the shortest reset (out of the box). It's not the grittiness of the Sig, as the Glock trigger can be gritty as well, it is that the Sig is a DA/SA handgun with two distinct pulls. Which typically leads to two groupings (one high and one low) when trying to work at the speeds required in law enforcement training and shooting. Of course, any gun can be mastered with enough time, engery and dedication to the task. It takes more effort to master a DA/SA handgun than a Glock Safe Action or 1911 single action only type gun. There is a huge difference between target shooting at the range when have all the time in the world and realistic defensive shooting where you have less than a second to draw and fire multiple good hits. The simplier the action, the easier it is to learn on and master.

If you like Sigs, and can easily master them, more power to you. I am not knocking your gun or you. In fact, I am impressed as I had a lot of trouble with the DA/SA Beretta compared to the Glock (thought I had no idea until I switched to a Glock and saw a massive jump in my ability and learning curve) so you're a better man than me. I am just trying to better explain why Glock guys like Glocks better than they do Sigs. The difference in actions is the main reason why. Not the feel of the trigger.

jeffrice6
09-29-2011, 2:39 AM
Sig makes a fine pistol.... Some of my triggers came good and some a bit rough. If its bothering you, & before replacing parts, you may want to look into a trigger job. Usually saving time and money in the long run! Contact 1911whore here on CG, great guy & does outstanding pistol work!

Voo
09-29-2011, 2:39 AM
I wouldn't send my Sig to anyone except for Grayguns, Apex Tactical or Sigarms themselves.. that would be my order of preference..

The first two have well known, industry recognized Sig gunsmiths.. I've been very fortunate to shoot/handle a few of their full blown custom sigs.. The difference is quite profound..

davbog44
09-29-2011, 3:10 AM
If you are comfortable detail stripping your P226: I found that when I converted my P220 Carry to DAK, an unintended benefit I got was the chance to to get all the factory grease off of the parts, get them wiped clean and then re-lubricated on my terms, which resulted in a smoother trigger. Granted it was now a DAK trigger, not SA/DA, but then I detailed stripped one of my P229s and did the same thing, and its trigger improved noticeably as well.

Often, SIG trigger pull issues will work themselves out in time, and there are quite a few knowledgeable SIG people who dry fire the heck out of their SIGs when they are new.

Of course, Grayguns mentioned above is probably the gold standard in trigger work.

berg
09-29-2011, 8:50 AM
Since I'm sure most people won't know what "part #28" is here are two diagrams I found on google showing two different part #28s.

In front of hammer...
http://www.your-gun.com/upl/Image/sig/sigsauer07.jpg

Below trigger guard...
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/schematics/sigP226.gif

Like many new rifles and pistols the triggers are often a little rough when brand new. Like already mentioned it will either work itself smooth with use or you can simply do what many gun owners do and have it smoothed up by a gunsmith.

Ccraig38
09-29-2011, 8:59 AM
Since I'm sure most people won't know what "part #28" is here are two diagrams I found on google showing two different part #28s.

In front of hammer...
http://www.your-gun.com/upl/Image/sig/sigsauer07.jpg

Below trigger guard...
http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/schematics/sigP226.gif

Like many new rifles and pistols the triggers are often a little rough when brand new. Like already mentioned it will either work itself smooth with use or you can simply do what many gun owners do and have it smoothed up by a gunsmith.

Yea, that is my plan as of now. I noticed in the second diagram, its part 41. I disassembled last night cleaned it up and put back together and it was still happening. The odd thing is it doesn't do it every time, just every few. So I will wait until I put a couple thousand rounds through it and see what happens. If it keeps up, I will be calling around and see what I can find. Thanks for the help everyone.

Bullwinkle
09-29-2011, 9:03 AM
If you're 100% sure that it is the Safety Lever (how did you determine that?), and you are comfortable stripping down your own pistol, then remove the part and check for burrs, both on the sides and in the pivot hole. Check the pivot pin, sear, and inside of the frame, also; anyplace the Safety Lever might rub against. Even the contact surfaces where the Trigger Bar & Safety Lever meet.

If you're not comfortable taking your pistol apart, then a 'smith is the solution; but note that having someone else work on the pistol (including you) who is not certified to do so voids the warranty. Your best bet (IMO) is to contact Sig customer service and send the pistol back to them (they'll pay r/t shipping for warranty issues).

Or, as has been stated, try cleaning and especially lubing around the Safety Lever better.

Ccraig38
09-29-2011, 9:13 AM
If you're 100% sure that it is the Safety Lever (how did you determine that?), and you are comfortable stripping down your own pistol, then remove the part and check for burrs, both on the sides and in the pivot hole. Check the pivot pin, sear, and inside of the frame, also; anyplace the Safety Lever might rub against. Even the contact surfaces where the Trigger Bar & Safety Lever meet.

If you're not comfortable taking your pistol apart, then a 'smith is the solution; but note that having someone else work on the pistol (including you) who is not certified to do so voids the warranty. Your best bet (IMO) is to contact Sig customer service and send the pistol back to them (they'll pay r/t shipping for warranty issues).

Or, as has been stated, try cleaning and especially lubing around the Safety Lever better.

The safety lever pivots on that pin (part 52 on second diagram above), obviously. So I notice when it's tilted more down, the trigger will snag. If its tilted more flat and parallel with the frame, its smooth as a baby's butt. I obviously found this all out when the slide was off.

Bullwinkle
09-29-2011, 2:38 PM
I notice when it's tilted more down

I don't believe the Safety Lever is supposed to tilt "down". The "elephant trunk" portion of the part should be flush with the top of the frame when at rest. I'll verify that when I get home.

Now assuming it's not supposed to tilt down, did you or a friend recently take the pistol apart? You'll notice in the schematic that there's a little notch at the bottom of the Safety Lever, and that notch is supposed to engage a corresponding tab on the Sear (part #24 in 1st schematic, 44 in 2nd). I can't imagine the part would even fit if it wasn't reassembled correctly, but it's something to check anyway.

HTH, and good luck with the resolution!

FYI - 1st diagram is correct part numbering.

Plisk
09-29-2011, 4:08 PM
You're saying you discovered the Safety Lever is angled downward the trigger snags while the slide is off. Is it creating the same issue when the slide is on? Without seeing pictures of the gun itself, it's hard to understand where and what is binding exactly. I would talk to Sig or bring it to a competent Gunsmith to see if it's easily remedied.

Another solution could be to install a SRT kit. ;)

P220ST
09-29-2011, 4:11 PM
I would, however I can't create an account because their registration e-mail system is messed up. Apparently they don't allow @gmail.com accounts... Odd.

+1

I thought they just had something against me. I never signed up for that site with before I got my Sig and then I tried signing up with many different email addresses and it says my email addresses are not allowed.

Ccraig38
09-29-2011, 6:59 PM
I took some pictures of what I'm looking at.

This is where it's a little confusing. Here the "elephant trunk" is flush, but this is also when it snags.
116599



This shows where I think the snag is happening. It's engaging with part 22, the trigger bar. Which seems normal because it looks like it's supposed to engage.
116602

These next two show the "elephant trunk" in the up position and it's not engaged with the trigger bar.
116600

116601


In general, does anything look out of place? Let me know if you want more pictures.

Bullwinkle
09-30-2011, 7:15 AM
I'm a bit confused. The Safety Lever shouldn't be "up" if the Trigger Bar isn't engaging it. I mean, that's the whole point of the firing pin block safety system... if the trigger isn't pulled, the firing pin should remain blocked. So that's a question for Sig.

In any event, I think I see your problem. In your photos showing the Trigger Bar, there's a divot in the bottom forward portion of the tab that engages the Safety Lever. I'm pretty sure that divot isn't supposed to be there. See, for example, the photo of the Trigger Bar (http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-trigger-bar_p226_p228_p229-da-sa.html) at Top Gun Supply or this enlarged photo (http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/383/383484.jpg) from Midway USA. So the Safety Lever is probably sticking in that divot. Looks like a new Trigger Bar will do the job (knock on wood). As I suggested earlier, contact Sig Customer Service. They'll e-mail a shipping label and take care of it for you free of charge. The only down side is you'll be w/o your pistol for a few weeks, but it's time well invested.

Also, FYI, I see another potential problem waiting to occur. The Trigger Bar is designed to be cammed down by the Hammer Pivot Pin (31) in DA mode, so you want your Hammer Pivot Pin to be sticking out further on the right side; you do not want it to be flush with the frame.

HTH. Let us know how the problem gets resolved.

Ccraig38
09-30-2011, 9:25 AM
Well... I have some good news and I have some bad news. I'm typically a bad news first kind of guy, but this is different.

Good news: I fixed the "snag". Was pretty simple actually. I took out the Safety Lever and the Trigger Bar, lightly filed down the sharp contact points, plus some lubricant and it smooth once again. So that's great...

Bad news: After reassembly (which included reading manuals online and watching videos), I dry fired it, the hammer does not reset, it just sits on the firing pin and does not retract to its regular position. So when I pull the trigger again, all the way back, nothing happens. The only way to reset the hammer is my manually doing it with my thumb or pushing the Decocking Lever enough to reset it. So I guess there is a chance I didn't reassemble it correct, but I'm pretty sure I did.

As shown, hammer cocked, ready to go. Normal.
116645

Next, trigger is pulled, strikes firing pin. Normal.
116646

Lastly, trigger is released, hammer does not retract. Not normal.
116647

Any ideas for this one?

thai562
09-30-2011, 9:46 AM
Check hammer reset spring #20 red. This little spring is what pull the hammer back.

Bullwinkle
09-30-2011, 9:47 AM
Congratulations on "fixing" your gun.

With all due respect, I'm only going to say "Contact Sig Customer Service" so many times. By doing your own fix, you just voided your warranty and introduced a new problem in the process!

The leg of the Reset Spring (38) has to sit on top of the Hammer Strut Pin (30).

You're on your own from here.

Edited to add:
Oh, and by filing down the contact surface(s), you may have just changed the timing of when the Safety Lever and Sear are moved out of their rest positions, which could potentially disrupt the firing sequence. I hope by "lightly filed" you really mean lightly.

Sturnovik
09-30-2011, 9:52 AM
I agree. My 20 year old Sig has never had issues or this one. Or any other Sigs and I've shot them alot. I'd contact sig customer service if the issue persists. Good choice in guns, that sig should last a long time.

Yerman
09-30-2011, 10:16 AM
Not sure what you did and not sure I really understand the problem you are stating. I would take a look at it if I was close to you but I'm not.

I would take it to a local gunsmith to have a look at. Then, I would buy the SRT kit. Not the short trigger but the SRT kit. That would have been my first step. You won't regret it...

Ccraig38
09-30-2011, 11:07 AM
Congratulations on "fixing" your gun.

With all due respect, I'm only going to say "Contact Sig Customer Service" so many times. By doing your own fix, you just voided your warranty and introduced a new problem in the process!

The leg of the Reset Spring (38) has to sit on top of the Hammer Strut Pin (30).

You're on your own from here.

Edited to add:
Oh, and by filing down the contact surface(s), you may have just changed the timing of when the Safety Lever and Sear are moved out of their rest positions, which could potentially disrupt the firing sequence. I hope by "lightly filed" you really mean lightly.


Well, this is what I get for being impatient. I agree with you and I understand what you are saying. As for the filing, it was light enough to get rid of the sharp edge that was catching the Safety lever. Now, for the leg of the Reset Spring sitting on the Hammer strut spring. From what I can tell, it doesn't look like it is. But I'm not even going to mess with it anymore. I called Sig about getting an SRT kit for it. I really appreciate your help and I also appreciate your honesty. Thank you.

Yerman
09-30-2011, 12:01 PM
Also, consider picking this up...

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=22191/Product/SIG-SAUER-ARMORER-S-COURSE-1-2

truep
09-30-2011, 1:00 PM
Hate to say it, but like someone said, I'm pretty sure you didn't put the reset spring correctly on top of the pin in the hammer. Most likely, you've also broken the spring now and will need a new one.

Also, NEVER use a file on a handgun!!! At worst, use 600-1000 grit sandpaper, and very lightly with that (some people wouldn't use anything beyond metal polish, but some metal polishes are even coarser than 600 grit)...looking at your pic's, there should be much more grease in there, around the trigger bar contact area's especially. My 226 has had an action job, and is smooth as butter. My P220 didn't need one- was smooth from the get-go.

mrdd
09-30-2011, 1:59 PM
Hate to say it, but like someone said, I'm pretty sure you didn't put the reset spring correctly on top of the pin in the hammer. Most likely, you've also broken the spring now and will need a new one.

I agree that the rebound spring is not correctly placed on the hammer strut pin. But, that does not mean the spring is broken, but to fix it you would need to remove the sear and hammer again. It is a simple fix, as long as you are willing to disassemble it again.

When you are repositioning the hammer, just make sure that the leg of the rebound spring (38) falls on top of the hammer strut pin (30). It is easy to verify the correct placement once the hammer pin (31) is replaced, just examine it from the rear and verify that you can push forward on the hammer, and that it rebounds to the rear when you release it.