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ls2monaro
09-28-2011, 4:26 PM
Maybe not the smartest idea to bring your 10+ round magazines for a firearm first produced after the year 2000 to a public shooting range in CA.

Just something I have noticed happening more frequently in my recent range trips.

shooterfpga
09-28-2011, 4:29 PM
how do you know theyre 10+, did you watch them shoot 10 and continue without reload? was it featureless?

ls2monaro
09-28-2011, 4:32 PM
how do you know theyre 10+, did you watch them shoot 10 and continue without reload? was it featureless?

I am referring to handguns for the most part, and hearing (mostly young guys late teens/early 20's) flaunting/bragging to their buddies about their high capacity magazines.

RollingCode3
09-28-2011, 4:33 PM
i have seen a lot of young shooters bring hi cap mags for xd, m&p, ruger sr9, etc to the range lately. I guess most of them buy it online as rebuild kits and put them back illegally... :rolleyes:

Oceanbob
09-28-2011, 4:37 PM
Maybe not the smartest idea to bring your 10+ round magazines for a firearm first produced after the year 2000 to a public shooting range in CA.

Just something I have noticed happening more frequently in my recent range trips.

However it is not illegal to OWN or POSSESS any capacity magazine in California.

But I see your point...;)

alfred1222
09-28-2011, 4:39 PM
At the range i go to, one of the RSO's told me that they dont believe or enforce mag capacity limits, and than proceeded to pull out his AR with 30 rnd mags and start shooting. i just think that its not really something that is enforced at ranges

vintagearms
09-28-2011, 4:43 PM
Until someone or several people get busted for them, the law will be ignored for the most part.

WDE91
09-28-2011, 4:49 PM
you cannot force laws to be followed
you can only educate those who may be in violation
what they choose to do is their choice and they have to live with the consequences

ls2monaro
09-28-2011, 4:54 PM
Of course possession of high capacity magazines is perfectly legal for now. With these lawmakers we have in CA that tend to have a knee jerk reaction especially when it comes to gun laws.

UOC is perfectly legal but now these lawmakers are making a pretty strong push to get rid of it as well.

rugershooter
09-28-2011, 4:58 PM
Maybe not the smartest idea to bring your 10+ round magazines for a firearm first produced after the year 2000 to a public shooting range in CA.

Just something I have noticed happening more frequently in my recent range trips.

Possession and use of high caps is perfectly legal. The way they were acquired could be illegal, though.

jak77
09-28-2011, 5:04 PM
Maybe they were LEO?

I agree with your point, I'm just playing the devils advocate here.

chim-chim7
09-28-2011, 5:09 PM
Maybe not the smartest idea to bring your 10+ round magazines for a firearm first produced after the year 2000 to a public shooting range in CA.

Just something I have noticed happening more frequently in my recent range trips.


When was the last time you heard someone was fined for having a mag over 10 rounds? I never have.

audiopro74
09-28-2011, 5:21 PM
Personally I tend to leave mine at home to just avoid the chance of a hassle. And their all pre-bans. There are just too many people, and too many uninformed leos. Not worth the the risk to me....

Reductio
09-28-2011, 5:22 PM
I'm glad you've got everything completely figured out. Should probably read around a bit more.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409

chim-chim7
09-28-2011, 5:26 PM
I bring all my preban mags to the range that is crawling with LEO's. Never once have I had a problem. They don't even look twice.

erik_26
09-28-2011, 5:27 PM
The way I see it, if the range is ok with people usi.g high cap, the people using them are being safe (following the rules).... Then myob.


All you should and can do is make sure you are 100% compliant with the law.

ls2monaro
09-28-2011, 5:28 PM
I'm glad you've got everything completely figured out. Should probably read around a bit more.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409

Thanks for the link, although I have already read the link and I am well aware of the firearm laws in CA. I was just throwing it out there as a topic for discussion, maybe persuade some of these guys to use some discretion/common sense.

chim-chim7
09-28-2011, 5:32 PM
Been discussed hundreds of times.

Reductio
09-28-2011, 5:36 PM
Thanks for the link, although I have already read the link and I am well aware of the firearm laws in CA. I was just throwing it out there as a topic for discussion, maybe persuade some of these guys to use some discretion/common sense.

Then you don't understand the statue of limitations. Believe me, these issues have been hashed out over and over and over...

Actually, the easy answer is to move out to free America like I did.

Lumpia is sarap!®
09-28-2011, 5:36 PM
At the range i go to, one of the RSO's told me that they dont believe or enforce mag capacity limits, and than proceeded to pull out his AR with 30 rnd mags and start shooting. i just think that its not really something that is enforced at ranges

RSO's aren't cops, but most RSO's mind their own business and stick to making sure the range runs smooth. Getting into a "standard mag" inquisition doesn't help anyone.

ls2monaro
09-28-2011, 5:41 PM
RSO's aren't cops, but most RSO's mind their own business and stick to making sure the range runs smooth. Getting into a "standard mag" inquisition doesn't help anyone.

I take it you haven't been to lytle creek lately

Dutch3
09-28-2011, 5:51 PM
I generally mind my own business as long as those shooting nearby are behaving safely.

HK4113
09-28-2011, 5:56 PM
RSO's aren't cops, but most RSO's mind their own business and stick to making sure the range runs smooth. Getting into a "standard mag" inquisition doesn't help anyone.

+1 it is also possible that 20 something years olds could have possessed high cap mags before the 2000 ban. There is not an age limit on buying gun magazines, so who is to say they didnt purchase them when they were 10.

Scream_4637
09-28-2011, 5:57 PM
Thanks for the link, although I have already read the link and I am well aware of the firearm laws in CA. I was just throwing it out there as a topic for discussion, maybe persuade some of these guys to use some discretion/common sense.

Why is discretion needed? Using large capacity magazines is not illegal. Stating that they need to use discretion implies that they have broken some law. I don't see how you can know if a law has been broken by observing "younger" people at the range with large capacity magazines.

Someone made the point about UOC'ers bringing attention on themselves and now our legislature is pushing hard to ban UOC. If the UOC'ers did not exercise their right to UOC then what would be the difference if it is illegal or not? If you can't do it for fear that it will become illegal then it may as well be illegal. If you have large "standard" capacity magazines, use them. Do not violate any existing laws to acquire magazines, however, you are not breaking any laws to use them if you have them.

Also, maybe some leo or lawyer can jump in and confirm or deny my next statement. I believe that committing a completely lawful act, such as using a large capacity magazine, does not provide probable cause to detain the user and further investigate for a crime while at a shooting range. In other words, a person using a large capacity magazine can tell a leo, if questioned at the range while using a large capacity magazine, that they are not interested in talking to the officer and to leave them alone.

bigmark408
09-28-2011, 6:05 PM
Talking/Texting on cell phones while driving has caused more injuries....i know non of you ever do that.

Sniper3142
09-28-2011, 6:16 PM
Why is discretion needed? Using large capacity magazines is not illegal. Stating that they need to use discretion implies that they have broken some law. I don't see how you can know if a law has been broken by observing "younger" people at the range with large capacity magazines.

Someone made the point about UOC'ers bringing attention on themselves and now our legislature is pushing hard to ban UOC. If the UOC'ers did not exercise their right to UOC then what would be the difference if it is illegal or not? If you can't do it for fear that it will become illegal then it may as well be illegal. If you have large "standard" capacity magazines, use them. Do not violate any existing laws to acquire magazines, however, you are not breaking any laws to use them if you have them.

Also, maybe some leo or lawyer can jump in and confirm or deny my next statement. I believe that committing a completely lawful act, such as using a large capacity magazine, does not provide probable cause to detain the user and further investigate for a crime while at a shooting range. In other words, a person using a large capacity magazine can tell a leo, if questioned at the range while using a large capacity magazine, that they are not interested in talking to the officer and to leave them alone.


+100

Stay Safe... Stay Legal... Stay Free

No Fear

vonderplatz
09-28-2011, 6:16 PM
First it s not illegal to own Standard Capacity magazines. Second, how do you know they are illegal? Unless you know, and can prove they manufactured or bought these magazines illegally it is not illegal to own the magazines.

Remember: The DA has to prove to a jury that these magazines were illegally manufactured, purchased or imported by these individuals. Having them is not illegal, and I have yet to hear of a case where someone was prosecuted for merely owning a Standard Capacity magazine. The prosecutor would need to be able to make the jump that a legally owned magazine was illegally manufactured, purchased or imported with no evidence except a legally owned magazine.

BTW: I have looked for one single case, so if someone knows of one I'd love to hear it.

ls2monaro
09-28-2011, 6:29 PM
Why is discretion needed? Using large capacity magazines is not illegal. Stating that they need to use discretion implies that they have broken some law. I don't see how you can know if a law has been broken by observing "younger" people at the range with large capacity magazines.

Someone made the point about UOC'ers bringing attention on themselves and now our legislature is pushing hard to ban UOC. If the UOC'ers did not exercise their right to UOC then what would be the difference if it is illegal or not? If you can't do it for fear that it will become illegal then it may as well be illegal. If you have large "standard" capacity magazines, use them. Do not violate any existing laws to acquire magazines, however, you are not breaking any laws to use them if you have them.

Also, maybe some leo or lawyer can jump in and confirm or deny my next statement. I believe that committing a completely lawful act, such as using a large capacity magazine, does not provide probable cause to detain the user and further investigate for a crime while at a shooting range. In other words, a person using a large capacity magazine can tell a leo, if questioned at the range while using a large capacity magazine, that they are not interested in talking to the officer and to leave them alone.

Alright here it is from a LEO perspective if I really wanted to jam someone up for the magazine even though I never would because I think it is a stupid law.

Hypothetical scenario 1: I am at the range undercover looking for those pesky high capacity magazine violators. I am wearing camo pants, calguns shirt, and glock hat. I see a nice guy with a 9mm xdm with 3 19 round magazines because he sets up right next to me. I approach the guy and tell him how cool his gun is and ask if I can take a look at it.

He tells me sure and I ask him where he got those high capacity magazines because I thought those were illegal. He tells me he bought them at a gun show in Las Vegas over the weekend. I say cool, do you have any you can sell me because I have been looking for some myself? He politely declines and I proceed to ID myself as a LEO and hook him up for importing high capacity magazines.

Hypothetical scenario 2: I am in uniform doing a training class at my local range and on my way out I walk through the public bay and notice a guy with a 9mm xdm with 19 round magazines. I ask him for ID and where he got the magazines (try going with the consent first). He tells me he knows his rights and tells me to pound sand.

Do I have enough to detain him? Not really, but I really hate citizens with cool guns because they are a lower class than us cool LEO's :). So I wait outside the range and wait for him to leave. I follow him for a little bit until he makes a vehicle code violation. Now I have probable cause to stop him and get his pesky ID that he refused to show me earlier. I ask him if that is current address and he says yes I cite him and carry on.

Now I really want to nail this guy because when I pulled him over he only rolled down his window 4 inches and kept reciting the fourth amendment and "I have nothing illegal in my car". Okay so I draft up this cool search warrant and take it to this pro cop judge and he signs it because he thinks those assault clips are dangerous. So me and the goon squad hit the house and get his computer, bank statements, credit card bills, and receipts for high capacity magazines.

Ta da, he goes to jail and hopefully he pleads out before it goes to trial. Sorry for the long post, but please understand I would never do this and I am one of the pro gun LEO's out there. For satire purposes only...

-hanko
09-28-2011, 6:34 PM
Of course possession of high capacity magazines is perfectly legal for now. With these lawmakers we have in CA that tend to have a knee jerk reaction especially when it comes to gun laws.

UOC is perfectly legal but now these lawmakers are making a pretty strong push to get rid of it as well.
Flawed analogy...

I take it you haven't been to lytle creek lately
I'd suggest if you wish to write what happened at Lytle Creek, maybe you just go ahead and let us know...just sayin'

So what's been happening at Lytle Creek?? Inquiring minds, etc.;)

-hanko

HK4113
09-28-2011, 6:35 PM
xdm is one thing, however if it was a glock, or beretta or something else that has been out for a while you cannot assume that just because someone is in their early 20's that they dont have those mags legally.

vonderplatz
09-28-2011, 6:40 PM
Alright here it is from a LEO perspective if I really wanted to jam someone up for the magazine even though I never would because I think it is a stupid law.

Hypothetical scenario 1: I am at the range undercover looking for those pesky high capacity magazine violators. I am wearing camo pants, calguns shirt, and glock hat. I see a nice guy with a 9mm xdm with 3 19 round magazines because he sets up right next to me. I approach the guy and tell him how cool his gun is and ask if I can take a look at it.

He tells me sure and I ask him where he got those high capacity magazines because I thought those were illegal. He tells me he bought them at a gun show in Las Vegas over the weekend. I say cool, do you have any you can sell me because I have been looking for some myself? He politely declines and I proceed to ID myself as a LEO and hook him up for importing high capacity magazines.

Hypothetical scenario 2: I am in uniform doing a training class at my local range and on my way out I walk through the public bay and notice a guy with a 9mm xdm with 19 round magazines. I ask him for ID and where he got the magazines (try going with the consent first). He tells me he knows his rights and tells me to pound sand.

Do I have enough to detain him? Not really, but I really hate citizens with cool guns because they are a lower class than us cool LEO's . So I wait outside the range and wait for him to leave. I follow him for a little bit until he makes a vehicle code violation. Now I have probable cause to stop him and get his pesky ID that he refused to show me earlier. I ask him if that is current address and he says yes I cite him and carry on.

Now I really want to nail this guy because when I pulled him over he only rolled down his window 4 inches and kept reciting the fourth amendment and "I have nothing illegal in my car". Okay so I draft up this cool search warrant and take it to this pro cop judge and he signs it because he thinks those assault clips are dangerous. So me and the goon squad hit the house and get his computer, bank statements, credit card bills, and receipts for high capacity magazines.

Ta da, he goes to jail and hopefully he pleads out before it goes to trial. Sorry for the long post, but please understand I would never do this and I am one of the pro gun LEO's out there. For satire purposes only...

LS2,

Seriously? I would hope the physcological would weed you out, because thats one heck of a power trip, and please just one case where this has happened.

ls2monaro
09-28-2011, 6:42 PM
Flawed analogy...


I'd suggest if you wish to write what happened at Lytle Creek, maybe you just go ahead and let us know...just sayin'

So what's been happening at Lytle Creek?? Inquiring minds, etc.;)

-hanko

Lytle Creek = No high capacity magazines unless you have a receipt showing purchase prior to 2000. See thread in shoots, meets, and range stories for more info.

ls2monaro
09-28-2011, 6:48 PM
LS2,

Seriously? I would hope the physcological would weed you out, because thats one heck of a power trip.

You should meet some of the guys I work with!

SocomM4
09-28-2011, 7:03 PM
I didnt do anything but pick up an old rebuild kit,so im not worried. thank you tho hk, for not qouting blindly,lol
thanks for the quick responses, time to bust out the rivet gun and 10/30 it uuup:whistling:

Scream_4637
09-28-2011, 7:12 PM
The OP stated that he was speaking mostly about handguns and handgun magazines, as am I. Assault Weapon laws and definitions in California are different to most handgun laws regarding magazines and using a 11+ magazine in an AR-15 with a bullet button is not legal.

I'm curious on how the Search Warrant would be written for the pro-cop judge. I'm not saying your scenario number 2 is not valid, I just would like to know how a leo that wants to "nail" this guy would right up the search warrant. It seems like a stretch for a leo to do as you suggested but not impossible.

evidens83
09-28-2011, 7:20 PM
MYODB...

ls2monaro
09-28-2011, 7:20 PM
The OP stated that he was speaking mostly about handguns and handgun magazines, as am I. Assault Weapon laws and definitions in California are different to most handgun laws regarding magazines and using a 11+ magazine in an AR-15 with a bullet button is not legal.

I'm curious on how the Search Warrant would be written for the pro-cop judge. I'm not saying your scenario number 2 is not valid, I just would like to know how a leo that wants to "nail" this guy would right up the search warrant. It seems like a stretch for a leo to do as you suggested but not impossible.

Well many people assume that the burden for a search warrant is very high. It is not that high, only probable cause is needed (far from the burden required to convict someone of a crime). Writing search warrants takes some amount of skill and a LEO's training and experience can play a significant role as well as the ability to articulate facts and the law. I can go on and on but in my personal opinion of having dozens of search warrants signed, I believe it could happen but the ultimate decision lies with the judge. Cops also know which judges to ask for which helps as well.

Fot
09-28-2011, 7:24 PM
Just like some people lose guns in boating accidents, others find 10+ round mags.

IrishPirate
09-28-2011, 7:26 PM
i think the only thing wrong with the situation is that people brag about them. that just shows a lack of common sense, which isn't a good characteristic to have in regards to firearms....i take my hi-caps all the time, and i don't say anything more than i would if they were just 10 rounders. i'm not there to look cool, i'm there to shoot......looking cool just comes naturally :cool:







not!

Scratch705
09-28-2011, 7:27 PM
So me and the goon squad hit the house and get his computer, bank statements, credit card bills, and receipts for high capacity magazines.


only works if the guy was dumb enough to use a CC/debit card.

why do you think people always use cash. ;)

Scream_4637
09-28-2011, 7:29 PM
Well many people assume that the burden for a search warrant is very high. It is not that high, only probable cause is needed (far from the burden required to convict someone of a crime). Writing search warrants takes some amount of skill and a LEO's training and experience can play a significant role as well as the ability to articulate facts and the law. I can go on and on but in my personal opinion of having dozens of search warrants signed, I believe it could happen but the ultimate decision lies with the judge. Cops also know which judges to ask for which helps as well.

I guess I am asking what the probable cause is for the search of the house for receipts and credit card statements. Would the leo just tell the judge that they observed the person using a large capacity magazine in a handgun that did not exist prior to 2000 and that the magazines for that gun were also not available prior to the year 2000?

Your scenario seems possible for a handgun such as the XDM but would not hold up for other handguns that were available prior to 2000.

Do you have a scenario that would fit for a Handgun that was available prior to 2000 with large capacity magazines?

Oceanbob
09-28-2011, 7:31 PM
As a sidenote not a single person has been arrested (primary charge) on any Standard (hi) capacity magazines violations.

The only charges on this law were ADD ON charges against Gang Bangers (gang members) who were picked up with AK weapons and 30 rounders.

There is no chance (if you keep your mouth shut) that a police officer could arrest you for using a hi cap magazine at the gun range.

There have been NO arrests at any gun ranges since this law went into effect 11 years ago.

Since owning or possessing hi caps is not illegal, there is no Probably Cause to get hooked up and hauled downtown (if you keep your mouth shut)

The impossible burden on any DA is to prove otherwise.

How would a Cop write up the arrest report.?....oh...I saw this man shooting a GLOCK 17 with a 17 round magazine, so I questioned him...he refused to tell me anything....so I arrested him for ......for...hey Sarge...what's the Penal Code for owning a high capacity magazine..?????..what..?...no penal code.?..oh, oh...I see a false arrest lawsuit.....SIR...WE ARE SO SORRY.

Never talk to the police.

Be well
Bob

HK4113
09-28-2011, 7:31 PM
Your scenario seems possible for a handgun such as the XDM but would not hold up for other handguns that were available prior to 2000.

Do you have a scenario that would fit for a Handgun that was available prior to 2000 with large capacity magazines?

Unless the person confessed that he bought high cap mags after 2000, then there is no way. Even if they had credit card information that the guy bought rebuild kits, they have to prove that the guy didn't have old high caps from before 2000 that he "rebuilt".

Who on this board keeps mag receipts that are more than 10+ years old? If they want to see the old parts, tell them to start digging in the local dump.

Fot
09-28-2011, 7:32 PM
[QUOTE=ls2monaro;7234039] So me and the goon squad hit the house and get his computer, bank statements, credit card bills, and receipts for high capacity magazines.[QUOTE]

Awesome you just found proof that I purchased replacement parts for that busted up mag I found prior.:p

Oceanbob
09-28-2011, 7:32 PM
I guess I am asking what the probable cause is for the search of the house for receipts and credit card statements. Would the leo just tell the judge that they observed the person using a large capacity magazine in a handgun that did not exist prior to 2000 and that the magazines for that gun were also not available prior to the year 2000?

Your scenario seems possible for a handgun such as the XDM but would not hold up for other handguns that were available prior to 2000.

Do you have a scenario that would fit for a Handgun that was available prior to 2000 with large capacity magazines?

Not going to happen. No Judge or Police supervisor for that matter, would let this sort of thing happen.

But it's fun to talk about it....:)

2DoorImpala
09-28-2011, 7:32 PM
How does one provide receipt after 12+ years? What if my dad had standard mags he got during the 80's. How would he prove it, since they are in storage for many years?


Also, would his son be able to use them? :D

HK4113
09-28-2011, 7:37 PM
[QUOTE=ls2monaro;7234039] So me and the goon squad hit the house and get his computer, bank statements, credit card bills, and receipts for high capacity magazines.[QUOTE]

Awesome you just found proof that I purchased replacement parts for that busted up mag I found prior.:p

Exactly..

How does one provide receipt after 12+ years? What if my dad had standard mags he got during the 80's. How would he prove it, since they are in storage for many years?


Also, would his son be able to use them? :D

You don't have to prove it, the prosecutor has to prove you didn't have those mags.

His son cannot use them because he didn't own them. But there is nothing to say his son didn't own his own, because there is no age restriction to buy magazines.

Oceanbob
09-28-2011, 7:39 PM
3 weeks ago at my favorite Gun Range...ON TARGET..

My daughter was born in 1997. I gave her this GLOCK 33 round magazine as a gift.......she has decided to keep it forever.

Her she is running her 1992 Glock 17 (with barstow barrel by Irv Stone himself)......

Bang Bang...

http://i51.tinypic.com/2eusswz.jpg

secret.asian.man
09-28-2011, 7:39 PM
Maybe they were LEO?

I agree with your point, I'm just playing the devils advocate here.

ATF is cracking down on LEO who don't comply with gun laws with their Personal firearms.

ls2monaro
09-28-2011, 7:40 PM
I guess I am asking what the probable cause is for the search of the house for receipts and credit card statements. Would the leo just tell the judge that they observed the person using a large capacity magazine in a handgun that did not exist prior to 2000 and that the magazines for that gun were also not available prior to the year 2000?

Your scenario seems possible for a handgun such as the XDM but would not hold up for other handguns that were available prior to 2000.

Do you have a scenario that would fit for a Handgun that was available prior to 2000 with large capacity magazines?

You have the right idea, it would never work for a gun in production prior to 2000.

I also have never personally seen anyone charged solely for the magazines, but I have seen it used in conjunction with assault weapons and gang related stuff all the time. As oceanbob said, it's fun to speculate about the nuances of the law

Scratch705
09-28-2011, 7:40 PM
How does one provide receipt after 12+ years? What if my dad had standard mags he got during the 80's. How would he prove it, since they are in storage for many years?


Also, would his son be able to use them? :D

can't be passed on. but if it was found, then it is legal.

secret.asian.man
09-28-2011, 7:42 PM
I bring all my preban mags to the range that is crawling with LEO's. Never once have I had a problem. They don't even look twice.

if you look like you have nothing to worry about, they probably assumed that you were LEO too and weren't going to make an *** out of them self for questioning another LEO especially off duty.

Fot
09-28-2011, 7:42 PM
3 weeks ago at my favorite Gun Range...ON TARGET..

My daughter was born in 1997. I gave her this GLOCK 33 round magazine as a gift.......she has decided to keep it forever.

Her she is running her 1992 Glock 17 (with barstow barrel by Irv Stone himself)......

Bang Bang...

http://i51.tinypic.com/2eusswz.jpg

Brave man showing pics of your daughter.. Best get a big stick Neil will be here in 5...4...3...2...

zfields
09-28-2011, 7:43 PM
Then you don't understand the statue of limitations. Believe me, these issues have been hashed out over and over and over...

Actually, the easy answer is to move out to free America like I did.

Out of all the parts of TX, you moved to hippyville.

Merc1138
09-28-2011, 7:43 PM
ATF is cracking down on LEO who don't comply with gun laws with their Personal firearms.

The ATF doesn't care about CA magazine laws. What are you talking about? Or did you just overhear that in a random gun shop somewhere?

Scream_4637
09-28-2011, 7:44 PM
From what I can tell with all of the posts thus far, using large capacity magazines in a legal manner at a range does not provide probable cause nor a practical means for leo's to investigate how the person obtained the magazine.

Bragging about having a large capacity magazine may be annoying, however, you can probable bet that the person bragging about having them may also brag about how they obtained them. If a UC leo is at the range, they would do better IMO to wait for the bragger to slip up and confess to an illegal activity, if the way they obtained the magazine was illegal.

Merc1138
09-28-2011, 7:45 PM
You have the right idea, it would never work for a gun in production prior to 2000.

I also have never personally seen anyone charged solely for the magazines, but I have seen it used in conjunction with assault weapons and gang related stuff all the time. As oceanbob said, it's fun to speculate about the nuances of the law

Idiots have been nailed by CA DOJ for bringing large capacity mags back across the state line into CA before, it's even been posted about on this forum.

GettoPhilosopher
09-28-2011, 7:46 PM
I was more concerned when I saw a guy shooting at the range with a 7.5" AR Pistol....with a stock on it.

*Facepalm*

Merc1138
09-28-2011, 7:47 PM
I was more concerned when I saw a guy shooting at the range with a 7.5" AR Pistol....with a stock on it.

*Facepalm*

That wouldn't be a pistol then. Maybe he has a RAW SBR? There are people in this state that have fun stuff like that legally.

Oceanbob
09-28-2011, 7:48 PM
From what I can tell with all of the posts thus far, using large capacity magazines in a legal manner at a range does not provide probable cause nor a practical means for leo's to investigate how the person obtained the magazine.

Bragging about having a large capacity magazine may be annoying, however, you can probable bet that the person bragging about having them may also brag about how they obtained them. If a UC leo is at the range, they would do better IMO to wait for the bragger to slip up and confess to an illegal activity, if the way they obtained the magazine was illegal.

Exactly...

Funny how most people get themselves in deep do-do...because of their own big mouth.

My motto is STFU.

haha
Bob

Fot
09-28-2011, 7:49 PM
Idiots have been nailed by CA DOJ for bringing large capacity mags back across the state line into CA before, it's even been posted about on this forum.

Well to be fair... we never had proof of the helicopter landing on the highway..

Reductio
09-28-2011, 7:51 PM
Out of all the parts of TX, you moved to hippyville.

Compared to coming from LA, and given that my other law school choice aside from UT was Berkley... I don't think I did *too* bad. ;)

Interestingly though, there's quite a few A&M people out here, there's a few of us already trying to organize a shooting trip / maybe a dove hunt.

Merc1138
09-28-2011, 7:52 PM
Well to be fair... we never had proof of the helicopter landing on the highway..

I'm not talking about the guy that claimed his friend's, cousin's, brother's, uncle's, grandson or whatever had a helicopter stop him on the highway. I was referring to this one recently:

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=475826

It did also apparently involve a handgun purchase, but it still happens. CA DOJ has people sitting in NV gun show and sporting goods store parking lots looking for CA plates, then following them to see what they do.

Oceanbob
09-28-2011, 7:54 PM
Idiots have been nailed by CA DOJ for bringing large capacity mags back across the state line into CA before, it's even been posted about on this forum.

Yes indeed...from the RENO Gun Show..but it was more than magazines..it was handguns as well. (Before the crack down on parking lot sales)

Dumb people do exist. And If I remember correctly a couple of those guys were convicted felons (prohibited people) as well. One of them was actually carrying the weapon concealed and hot in the car....dumb dumb dumb..

Again...if you go to the RENO gun show and buy a normal capacity GLOCK 17 magazine to keep it LEGAL for California, TAKE IT APART and put it in a plastic bag. That keeps it legal.


It is not hard to follow the law; transport handguns unloaded in a locked case; take apart any hi cap magazines. Don't consent to a search. Follow all speeding laws...be polite yet firm about no searches without probable cause.

Bob

Fot
09-28-2011, 8:00 PM
I'm not talking about the guy that claimed his friend's, cousin's, brother's, uncle's, grandson or whatever had a helicopter stop him on the highway. I was referring to this one recently:

http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=475826

It did also apparently involve a handgun purchase, but it still happens. CA DOJ has people sitting in NV gun show and sporting goods store parking lots looking for CA plates, then following them to see what they do.

More then just mags.. but agreed.. be smart break down the mags before crossing state lines.. Then use to rebuild old mags or build your 10/30 mags.

punkur67
09-28-2011, 8:11 PM
+1 it is also possible that 20 something years olds could have possessed high cap mags before the 2000 ban. There is not an age limit on buying gun magazines, so who is to say they didnt purchase them when they were 10.

Or handed down from father to son

LDSGJimbo
09-28-2011, 8:11 PM
I always worry about some LEO who doesnt know the law making serious trouble for me. And when the law isnt on my side it makes me even more nervous.

Still - interesting discussion. Between the magazine cap and the approved handgun lists I think they are both tied for the most useless/annoying regulation.

thrasherfox
09-28-2011, 8:16 PM
I personally mind my own business when I am at a range. I am not paid to enforce any laws.

I was at an outdoor range a few weeks ago and it sounded like someone shooting a fully auto 22.

I knew there were a few adults and about 5 kids the next range over. sure did not sound like bump firing, sounded like fully auto 22's WITH high cap magazines. must have squeezed off like 50 rounds full auto.

Just kept to myself. if anything I was jealous.

HK4113
09-28-2011, 8:20 PM
Or handed down from father to son

As long as it was before 2000.

FourLoko
09-28-2011, 8:59 PM
good talk

my next AR might have to be featureless

GettoPhilosopher
09-28-2011, 9:02 PM
only works if the guy was dumb enough to use a CC/debit card.

why do you think people always use cash. ;)

"Oh, yes, I did purchase rebuild kits last year. I purchased them to rebuild my old, legally owned preban AR mags. No, I get it. That receipt shows that I bought rebuild kits, the very same ones you hold assembled in your hand. That's because I *rebuilt my preban magazines*, which is 100% legal. Here's the CA DOJ letter regarding complete rebuilds. Yeah, have a nice day. Feel free to call my attorney if you'd like."

morfeeis
09-28-2011, 11:34 PM
good talk

my next AR might have to be featureless
I love mine. and why wait just convert one over now. hammer head grip for the ****ing win.

most of the time i shoot on BLM land and have no problem using my prebans, but i hate useing them at public ranges. i just dont want to end up dealing with some dumbass leo that knows less about the law than i.

cdtx2001
09-29-2011, 3:42 AM
At the range i go to, one of the RSO's told me that they dont believe or enforce mag capacity limits, and than proceeded to pull out his AR with 30 rnd mags and start shooting. i just think that its not really something that is enforced at ranges

They are not the police and it is not their duty to enforce such laws.

As others have said, possession or use is not illegal.

negolien
09-29-2011, 5:27 AM
i have seen a lot of young shooters bring hi cap mags for xd, m&p, ruger sr9, etc to the range lately. I guess most of them buy it online as rebuild kits and put them back illegally... :rolleyes:

These are the same people that complain about a LEO trampling thir civil rights when found in violation of federal law :facepalm:. If you don't like the law change the law otherwise shut up and sit in the back of the bus please :eek:....

SanPedroShooter
09-29-2011, 7:04 AM
Alright here it is from a LEO perspective if I really wanted to jam someone up for the magazine even though I never would because I think it is a stupid law.

Hypothetical scenario 1: I am at the range undercover looking for those pesky high capacity magazine violators. I am wearing camo pants, calguns shirt, and glock hat. I see a nice guy with a 9mm xdm with 3 19 round magazines because he sets up right next to me. I approach the guy and tell him how cool his gun is and ask if I can take a look at it.

He tells me sure and I ask him where he got those high capacity magazines because I thought those were illegal. He tells me he bought them at a gun show in Las Vegas over the weekend. I say cool, do you have any you can sell me because I have been looking for some myself? He politely declines and I proceed to ID myself as a LEO and hook him up for importing high capacity magazines.

Hypothetical scenario 2: I am in uniform doing a training class at my local range and on my way out I walk through the public bay and notice a guy with a 9mm xdm with 19 round magazines. I ask him for ID and where he got the magazines (try going with the consent first). He tells me he knows his rights and tells me to pound sand.

Do I have enough to detain him? Not really, but I really hate citizens with cool guns because they are a lower class than us cool LEO's :). So I wait outside the range and wait for him to leave. I follow him for a little bit until he makes a vehicle code violation. Now I have probable cause to stop him and get his pesky ID that he refused to show me earlier. I ask him if that is current address and he says yes I cite him and carry on.

Now I really want to nail this guy because when I pulled him over he only rolled down his window 4 inches and kept reciting the fourth amendment and "I have nothing illegal in my car". Okay so I draft up this cool search warrant and take it to this pro cop judge and he signs it because he thinks those assault clips are dangerous. So me and the goon squad hit the house and get his computer, bank statements, credit card bills, and receipts for high capacity magazines.

Ta da, he goes to jail and hopefully he pleads out before it goes to trial. Sorry for the long post, but please understand I would never do this and I am one of the pro gun LEO's out there. For satire purposes only...

You know, when I left the Coast Guard, I had thought about transitioning right into Law Enforcement. I had been doing high seas boardings, taken the POST equvalent and the like, I figured it would be pretty seamless. The only thing that stopped me was thought of having to do things like you posed in this hypothetical. I just dont have the guts for it. Reading that stuff literally makes my skin crawl. I didnt even like boarding US flagged vessels without probable cause (which the USCG doesnt need)...

Now your scenario is over the top, I understand, but the idea of having to enforce the really foul parts CA PC is something I wouldnt wish on anyone.... I understand satisfaction of putting a real bad guy behind bars, but shoveling people into the maw of our criminal justice system for petty garbage, dealing with ****ty people and their ****ty problems, jacking someone up for something that is legal across the border, no thank you.

We're all guilty of something... I would probably get fired for letting people go, "Sir, you are more sinned against than sinning, now get out out of my sight before I change my mind..."

I decided to be a house painter... its not as exciting, but I sleep good at night.... with my old steel 30 rounders....

Never Convicted
09-29-2011, 7:35 AM
Bob said it best :

"As a sidenote not a single person has been arrested (primary charge) on any Standard (hi) capacity magazines violations.

There is no chance (if you keep your mouth shut) that a police officer could arrest you for using a hi cap magazine at the gun range.

There have been NO arrests at any gun ranges since this law went into effect 11 years ago.

Since owning or possessing hi caps is not illegal, there is no Probably Cause to get hooked up and hauled downtown (if you keep your mouth shut)

The impossible burden on any DA is to prove otherwise.

Never talk to the police."

Very valid, true, real life post, not hypotetical/waste of what time, like others.

jonni
09-29-2011, 9:17 AM
I remember seeing a post that said the statue of limitations for high cap mags is 3 years (or 5 years?) Is that true?

morfeeis
09-29-2011, 9:28 AM
I remember seeing a post that said the statue of limitations for high cap mags is 3 years (or 5 years?) Is that true?
it's 3 years

IntoForever
09-29-2011, 10:47 AM
can't be passed on. but if it was found, then it is legal.

I'm wondering how many were minors owning 'high cap' magazines before this deranged law existed? When my Niece turned 13 I bought her a rifle and when my Nephew turns 13 he gets one and if the laws weren't in place, they would also get >10 rd magazines. When I see people who were no way 18 when the law went into effect it makes me happy thinking this is the case. I was lucky enough to be in a gun store when the customer next to me was discussing the 1994 laws regarding magazines and we stocked up on them, even for guns we didn't own.
Opening your mouth is a sure way to get busted, I've had many people tell me they did things that weren't quite legal and they have no idea who I work for. Hopefully they don't say that to a LEO who would bust them.

Vanguard
09-29-2011, 11:25 AM
"High capacity magazine" makes me LOL. They're really just STANDARD capacity magazines. California mandates LOW capacity magazines.

PressCheck
09-29-2011, 11:29 AM
I shot my CCW qual with 15 round G21 mags (13+2 with one in the pipe) with my G21 & G30SF - Had no problems with the Sheriff's Range Master.
:) :) :)

JaeOne3345
09-29-2011, 12:04 PM
People sweat magazine capacity way too much. If the large (normal) capacity magazine is not in a bullet button rifle or some other configuration that has a written limit on capacity, then who gives a ****? I have better things to worry about. The LEO I know do not give a rats *** about magazine capacity either. My roommate (LEO) will tell you straight to your face that unless it is in some illegal configuration, being imported, etc, he can't and won't do a damn thing to you. It isn't worth his time.

Lytle Creek? Stay away from that ****ty range. I was harassed there by a toothless vagabond who said my featureless rifle was not legal. I ended up getting into a heated argument with him and got my money back plus a free visit, but I choose not to return. The people at Lytle Creek simply do not understand the law. Supposedly the Forest Ranger who oversees the land is not up to date on what is legal/illegal either. Really a shame.

West End Gun Club is right next to Lytle Creek and you can shoot without being bothered.

The bottom line is, there is nothing wrong with having them, and there is nothing wrong with using them in a configuration that has no prohibition against them. How people acquire them is another issue, but as we keep repeating, it's up the state to prove you got them illegally. Judging by the fact that no one has been prosecuted, it is fairly safe to say they don't have the time to chase after people for that either.

If you get busted for selling/importing or something similar, you're a dumb ***. Take the mags apart. That's your fault. In my opinion you would have to be an idiot to actually get popped.

I use large/standard capacity pre bans all the time at ranges other than Lytle Creek and nobody gives a rats ***.

Decoligny
09-29-2011, 1:04 PM
However it is not illegal to OWN or POSSESS any capacity magazine in California.

But I see your point...;)

And even if they did import/manufacture them, as long as they did so more than three years ago, no problem. It's called the statute of limitations.

They may have committed a crime in the past, but it is too late to prosecute.

Disclaimer: I am in no way advocating that someone commit a crime by importing/manufacturing a large capacity magazine and hiding the fact for three years.

socalocalypse
09-29-2011, 1:14 PM
It seems like busybody gun owners are more interested in enforcing the ban than anybody else.

I shot my friends no bb 'evil' norinco ak with a drum at the range the other day. The range guys cared about safe operation. Only other shooters concerned themselves with the legality of my friend's registered assault weapon.

That said, I own 30 rd mags legally but only shoot 10 rd mags at the range. I don't want to plug the 30 rd mags or need the attention bringing them causes.

tenpercentfirearms
09-29-2011, 1:25 PM
Possession of standard capacity magazines is not illegal? You better read this article.

http://www.bakersfield.com/blogs/breaking_news/x651158303/Two-arrested-on-suspicion-of-numerous-drug-gun-charges

Jerardo Sital, 39, was arrested on suspicion of possession of meth, possession of meth for sales, maintaining a residence for drug sales, being under the influence of a controlled substance while in possession of a gun, possession of meth while in possession of a gun, possession of a sawed-off shotgun, two counts of possession of high capacity magazines, being a felon in possession of ammunition, two counts of possession of explosive devices, possession of stolen property and five counts of child endangerment.That being said I have all sorts of large capacity magazines that I came into possession of after 2000. I have a large capacity magazine permit in my name! :43:

Sniper3142
09-29-2011, 1:33 PM
Possession of standard capacity magazines is not illegal? You better read this article.

http://www.bakersfield.com/blogs/breaking_news/x651158303/Two-arrested-on-suspicion-of-numerous-drug-gun-charges


That person was a FELON and therefore couldn't legally posses ANY firearms or related items, including magazines of any capacity.

bwiese
09-29-2011, 1:33 PM
I have hundreds of over-10rd mags - some for guns I don't even own yet. I bought these in 1998-99 before the laws changed.

I freely shoot them at the range, travel with them, etc.

JaeOne3345
09-29-2011, 1:35 PM
That person was a FELON and therefore couldn't legally posses ANY firearms or related items, including magazines of any capacity.

Exactly, the guy is a felon. Thus why he even got busted for ammo. Easy to understand that situation.

tenpercentfirearms
09-29-2011, 1:36 PM
That person was a FELON and therefore couldn't legally posses ANY firearms or related items, including magazines of any capacity.

That might be, he was still charged for "two counts of possession of high capacity magazines"...according to the newspaper. He was not charged for felon in posseession of magazines.

So it would appear you can be charged for possession of large capacity magazines. I would expect the charges to be dropped, but charged he was.

JaeOne3345
09-29-2011, 1:39 PM
It came from a newspaper.

Newspaper/media trustworthy about anything, let alone guns? Never. lol.

paul0660
09-29-2011, 1:42 PM
It came from a newspaper.

There you go.

tenpercentfirearms
09-29-2011, 1:44 PM
Except I bet it was a news release from the KCSD. So I bet the newspaper is sharing what it was told.

aermotor
09-29-2011, 1:49 PM
A lot of people are bashing the OP here. But come on, he has a point. Young kids who have more than likely imported or manufactured them in the state illegally. Don't give him such a hard time. Anyone can lie and explain away how they "got" them, and yes possession and use is absolutely legal, but it's the steps that they used to get to the possession and use that leave them as an open target.

Everyone says mag cap doesn't matter and no one has ever been charged for having them blah blah blah. Are you willing to be the guinea pig? Purchase rebuild kits online, leave a paper trail, use them very obviously and stupidly at a range or on BLM, wait for an arrest and we'll see how well Calguns can defend you. When they have your bank records and subpoena for the exact order, you're hosed. Is this far fetched? F yes it is. Is it impossible? No.

Dude is making a very poignant observation.

I have a lot of dumb friends with guns who couldn't care less about the high cap mag laws, and that's their prerogative guess. But I find staying on the legal path will keep you out of trouble. It's not worth losing my gun rights over.

JaeOne3345
09-29-2011, 1:55 PM
Except I bet it was a news release from the KCSD. So I bet the newspaper is sharing what it was told.

Hi capacity evil baby killing magazines just adds more zing to the report. You know this. :p

notme92069
09-29-2011, 2:28 PM
Brave man showing pics of your daughter.. Best get a big stick Neil will be here in 5...4...3...2...

Isn't she too old for Neil?

RollingCode3
09-29-2011, 2:38 PM
A lot of people are bashing the OP here. But come on, he has a point. Young kids who have more than likely imported or manufactured them in the state illegally. Don't give him such a hard time. Anyone can lie and explain away how they "got" them, and yes possession and use is absolutely legal, but it's the steps that they used to get to the possession and use that leave them as an open target.

Everyone says mag cap doesn't matter and no one has ever been charged for having them blah blah blah. Are you willing to be the guinea pig? Purchase rebuild kits online, leave a paper trail, use them very obviously and stupidly at a range or on BLM, wait for an arrest and we'll see how well Calguns can defend you. When they have your bank records and subpoena for the exact order, you're hosed. Is this far fetched? F yes it is. Is it impossible? No.

Dude is making a very poignant observation.

I have a lot of dumb friends with guns who couldn't care less about the high cap mag laws, and that's their prerogative guess. But I find staying on the legal path will keep you out of trouble. It's not worth losing my gun rights over.

+1 well said

How do you call yourself law citizen gun owners when you break the law and then discuss about the statue of limitation? :confused: People always claim it is not illegal to OWN or POSSESS any capacity magazine in California but they ignore the fact that import and manufacture are illegal. How do you get them in the first place? found them at the range or in your garage? :facepalm: (I am talking about guns that didn't exist before the ban)

stix213
09-29-2011, 2:54 PM
Everyone says mag cap doesn't matter and no one has ever been charged for having them blah blah blah. Are you willing to be the guinea pig? Purchase rebuild kits online, leave a paper trail, use them very obviously and stupidly at a range or on BLM, wait for an arrest and we'll see how well Calguns can defend you. When they have your bank records and subpoena for the exact order, you're hosed. Is this far fetched? F yes it is. Is it impossible? No.


Nothing wrong with buying rebuild kits online, leaving a paper trail, and using them obviously at the range.... since, you know, they are for rebuilding your existing high cap mags you already have. Even if you did break the law (not advocating doing so), the LEO would have to prove you didn't own any mags that needed rebuilding prior to your online order, which is only possible to prove by telling the officer that was the case.

deadcoyote
09-29-2011, 3:03 PM
Maybe not the smartest idea to bring your 10+ round magazines for a firearm first produced after the year 2000 to a public shooting range in CA.

Just something I have noticed happening more frequently in my recent range trips.

I have to say though, I'm mag ban exempt and typically go to the range with a bunch of other guys who are mag ban exempt. I can't count how many f-tards approach me and do the whole 'wink-wink, hey buddy i see your mags' BS. i also can't believe how many guys ask me to sell them my standard capacity mags at the range.

aermotor
09-29-2011, 3:44 PM
Nothing wrong with buying rebuild kits online, leaving a paper trail, and using them obviously at the range.... since, you know, they are for rebuilding your existing high cap mags you already have. Even if you did break the law (not advocating doing so), the LEO would have to prove you didn't own any mags that needed rebuilding prior to your online order, which is only possible to prove by telling the officer that was the case.

Stretch that case until it's thinner than tissue paper. This is just ignorant. You know what I'm saying but don't care, and you take it out of context of the young kids. Anything illegal is made "legal" because someone has to "prove it" – good luck with that in front of a jury. It's the criminal think like this among some gun owners which scares me.

Rebuild kits were mostly likely "invented" along with the bullet button as a way to get around the laws. Except a rebuild kits get around no law—I bet 75% or more people on this board only own rebuild kits because they didn't have an AR before the ban. When we are talking about rebuild kits, more than most of the time we are talking about a way for people in CA to even posses such mags in their broken down state. I'm never talking about people who legally rebuild their preban mags.

760practicalshooter
09-29-2011, 4:25 PM
:hide:

Gryff
09-29-2011, 4:36 PM
The way they were acquired could be illegal, though.

Are you positive? Nothing illegal about keeping the couple of standard cap mags you found while out on BLM land.

stix213
09-29-2011, 4:37 PM
Stretch that case until it's thinner than tissue paper. This is just ignorant. You know what I'm saying but don't care, and you take it out of context of the young kids. Anything illegal is made "legal" because someone has to "prove it" – good luck with that in front of a jury. It's the criminal think like this among some gun owners which scares me.

Rebuild kits were mostly likely "invented" along with the bullet button as a way to get around the laws. Except a rebuild kits get around no law—I bet 75% or more people on this board only own rebuild kits because they didn't have an AR before the ban. When we are talking about rebuild kits, more than most of the time we are talking about a way for people in CA to even posses such mags in their broken down state. I'm never talking about people who legally rebuild their preban mags.

Um its not a stretch. Legally owned mags wear out. Not if, but when they do you go online and buy a rebuild kit. Then when you get your rebuild kit, you repair your mag and then go to the range. Not sure what you are getting hung up on. As Bwiese already mentioned from his personal experience, lots of people have bought mags for guns they didn't own when they saw the ban coming, so having an AR prior to the ban is pretty irrelevant from having the forethought to buy AR mags before the law went into effect.

You didn't even have to be an adult to acquire mags, so unless you are less than 11 years old, then age doesn't even come into play.

If you just want 30 round AR mags legally, there is nothing keeping you from getting 10 round .50 Beowolf mags today anyway. They work just fine, and this has been mentioned in several other threads. Recommended to get a Beowolf upper if you like dotting I's and crossing T's. But nothing keeping you from putting 30 rounds of .223 in them.

aermotor
09-29-2011, 4:42 PM
You are one of the people who are doing it legally here and more power to you. But we're not even talking about you. We're talking about the people who do it illegally. No one can pretend like it doesn't happen. It does, and it's their prerogative to deal with it however they will. I don't think anyone here is debating legally rebuilding magazines....

I never had the luxury of owning any preban 30 rounders so I'm stuck with disassembled rebuilds and 10/30s until this state takes it's dong out of it's arse. Could I assemble them and make up whatever story I saw fit? (like I'm sure many people do) Of course I could. Do I? No, because it's illegal.

All of my comments are towards the original post as well, aka kids bragging about illegal high caps. FFS.



Possession and use of high caps is perfectly legal. The way they were acquired could be illegal, though.

I'm pretty sure there is nothing illegal about any way you acquire a high cap (besides the obvious of manufacturing or importing) Buying, finding etc are all legal if I remember correctly.

stix213
09-29-2011, 5:09 PM
You are one of the people who are doing it legally here and more power to you. But we're not even talking about you. We're talking about the people who do it illegally. No one can pretend like it doesn't happen. It does, and it's their prerogative to deal with it however they will. I don't think anyone here is debating legally rebuilding magazines....

I never had the luxury of owning any preban 30 rounders so I'm stuck with disassembled rebuilds and 10/30s until this state takes it's dong out of it's arse. Could I assemble them and make up whatever story I saw fit? (like I'm sure many people do) Of course I could. Do I? No, because it's illegal.

All of my comments are towards the original post as well, aka kids bragging about illegal high caps. FFS.



I wasn't saying no body is using rebuilds illegally. What I'm only saying is being a 20 year old guy with rebuilds in your CC history isn't proof of any wrong doing. Parents could have given the kid a box of mags in 1999. Kid could have bought some in 1999 with his lunch money even. Since all legally purchased mags prior to 1/1/2000 are all nearly 12 years old, there are lots of instances where rebuild kits are legitimately needed, even by the young.

Now if 20 year old guy is bragging about illegally manufacturing 11+ round mags, well then there is plenty of proof flowing out of his dumb mouth to send him straight to jail, don't pass go, don't collect $200.

sammy
09-29-2011, 5:15 PM
What is wrong with using 10+ round magazines at the range. They probably found them on the side of the road. It is up to the DA to PROVE you imported, assembled or purchased them in state. That is nearly impossible to do. I have not heard of a case of anyone successfully prosecuted on a high capacity mag charge. If someone is convicted it is most likely because they opened their mouth. Don't talk to the cops, period.

Merc1138
09-29-2011, 5:17 PM
http://www.condometropolis.com/blog/images/dead-horse1.jpg

Just leave it alone, we don't have to do it... it's dead Jim. There's no reason to...




http://www.pinetarpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/beating-a-dead-horse-2.jpg
Already too late I guess.

aermotor
09-29-2011, 5:27 PM
@stix213 I get you.

Thanks for the laugh haha.

Scream_4637
09-29-2011, 5:33 PM
A lot of people are bashing the OP here. But come on, he has a point. Young kids who have more than likely imported or manufactured them in the state illegally. Don't give him such a hard time. Anyone can lie and explain away how they "got" them, and yes possession and use is absolutely legal, but it's the steps that they used to get to the possession and use that leave them as an open target.

Everyone says mag cap doesn't matter and no one has ever been charged for having them blah blah blah. Are you willing to be the guinea pig? Purchase rebuild kits online, leave a paper trail, use them very obviously and stupidly at a range or on BLM, wait for an arrest and we'll see how well Calguns can defend you. When they have your bank records and subpoena for the exact order, you're hosed. Is this far fetched? F yes it is. Is it impossible? No.

Dude is making a very poignant observation.

I have a lot of dumb friends with guns who couldn't care less about the high cap mag laws, and that's their prerogative guess. But I find staying on the legal path will keep you out of trouble. It's not worth losing my gun rights over.

I don't understand why you would assume that young kids have only obtained their magazines illegally. This discussion thread has provided several examples of how a young person can legally have large capacity "standard" magazines. I don't disagree that there are people out there who do illegally come into possession because they could care less about the high cap mag laws much like you say your friends don't. You have no way of knowing without actually asking the person how they obtained the magazine. Because of this, I don't think it is necessary to state that you must use some form of discretion to use the magazine. I go under the assumption that somebody at the range who has a large capacity magazine is using it legally and obtained it legally. It serves me no purpose to believe otherwise without additional information on how they were obtained. People on this thread have "bragged" about having large capacity magazines and it doesn't bother me so why would some "young" kids at the range bother me by bragging about their large capacity magazines?

You also state that its the way they obtain the magazines that leaves them as an open target. Again, how do you know how the "young" kids at the range obtained the magazine? Discretion is not necessary if nothing illegal has/is happening and to assume that something illegal has happened based on the age of the user is incorrect as reasons for young people legitimately having large capacity magazines have been given throughout this thread.

ls2monaro
09-29-2011, 6:31 PM
I have to say though, I'm mag ban exempt and typically go to the range with a bunch of other guys who are mag ban exempt. I can't count how many f-tards approach me and do the whole 'wink-wink, hey buddy i see your mags' BS. i also can't believe how many guys ask me to sell them my standard capacity mags at the range.

I am exempt as well, and I have also have a few RAW's to top it off. Just last week I had a guy offer me $100 for each of my 22 round .40 glock magazines. I just said no thanks and went on my way. I have been going to lytle creek for 20+ years but I haven't gone lately since they have stupid no hi cap rule. Sure I can show my badge to the RO's and forest service guys, but I don't want to put that out there unless absolutely necessary.

ls2monaro
09-29-2011, 6:36 PM
As far as the magazines are concerned, I am not talking about ar-15 or glock magazines that were given to the kid when he was one year old on december 31, 1999. I am talking about a handgun first manufactured after the year 2000 (example : xdm, m&p, etc.) How can you tell me you legally have magazines that hold more than ten rounds for a gun that was not even made when the law went into effect.

Here are the options, you "found" them on BLM land, you illegally assembled them 37 months ago, or you purchased them as a LEO.

rugershooter
09-29-2011, 6:42 PM
Are you positive? Nothing illegal about keeping the couple of standard cap mags you found while out on BLM land.

I said "could" be illegal. Importing a high cap (not a rebuild kit) into the state is illegal. Manufacturing high cap mags is illegal.

There are several ways "young kids" acquire high caps, both legal and illegal. The bottem line is there has to be some actual proof that the person broke the law within 3 years of the investigation, and the burden of proof is on the DA. Even if someone illegally got them, there's not a damn thing the DA could do if the statute of limitations has transpired.

rugershooter
09-29-2011, 6:45 PM
As far as the magazines are concerned, I am not talking about ar-15 or glock magazines that were given to the kid when he was one year old on december 31, 1999. I am talking about a handgun first manufactured after the year 2000 (example : xdm, m&p, etc.) How can you tell me you legally have magazines that hold more than ten rounds for a gun that was not even made when the law went into effect.

Here are the options, you "found" them on BLM land, you illegally assembled them 37 months ago, or you purchased them as a LEO.

YOU can't unless the person tells you or you witness them acquiring them illegally. So there is absolutley no reason whatsoever to believe that they're breaking the law.
People actually do find high cap mags on BLM land. Don't believe that can happen? Go down to a BLM shooting area and look around for a while. People leave gun cases, mags, boxes of ammo and other gun related things there.

Librarian
09-29-2011, 7:14 PM
Have we learned anything in 112 posts that was not in the link posted early on -- http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=387409 ?

No.

Everybody has been polite and reasonable and this horse is indeed dead.