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GuillermoAntonio
09-28-2011, 1:37 PM
I just got my first AR a couple months back, this is my 3rd time shooting it, just zeroed it in at 100 yards today.
Shoot it with iron sights.
I need to know how am I doing, need some feedback.
All rounds shot with .223 reloads, sitting on bench, no tripod, just resting the mag on the table.
The shoot n see bullseye is 12".
Thanks.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116418&stc=1&d=1317242232

rero360
09-28-2011, 1:41 PM
thats not all that great to be honest, however I'm willing to bet most of that is from resting the mag on the bench, which isn't bad, if you have something soft between the hard bench and the mag, and use your elbows for further support, but if you used just the mag, then that foot spread is to be expected. Stabilize the rifle better and you should see the group shrink substantially.

tacticalcity
09-28-2011, 1:41 PM
For 100 yards that's not bad with irons. You'll get better with time. A course will help you develope some shooting fundamentals that will tighten it up. Trigger control, breath control, etc.

brando
09-28-2011, 1:44 PM
Are you shooting from a standing position? Most ARs can shoot 1MOA out of the box, which means they can realistically place all rounds into a 1" circle at 100 yards - all things being equal. Shooting 100 yards with iron sights means its a bit more difficult to get a consistent point of aim than with a magnified optic, for example. Standing compounds it significantly as its the least stable platform to shoot from.

If you're new to the game, you should seek some coaching from a friend who's an accomplished shooter. You can also take a basic rifle course to get better exposure to the techniques that will make you a more capable shooter.

Here are the goals I would suggest "aiming" for from 100 yards:

1. Standing, you should be able to put all rounds into the 12" target.
2. Sitting, all rounds inside the 6" middle ring.
3. Prone/Bench, all rounds inside the inner 3" ring.

Bug Splat
09-28-2011, 4:24 PM
Keep shooting and your groups will shrink. its a new gun for you after all. Try resting the front on sandbags or some kind of rest. Shooting off the mag is not very stable. I'm not great with irons on account of my bad eyes but I can still squeeze a 3 inch group at 100y. I bet you can do better with some more trigger time. ;)

luckystrike
09-28-2011, 4:30 PM
Pretty good, I wonder if some of the inconsistency could be from reloads?

HighLander51
09-28-2011, 4:31 PM
Resting a single mag is too shaky, you can do that with a double mag. Without see your shooting position, so no comment, but factory AR's have crap triggers. Invest in a good aftermarket one, I use Derrick Martins (Accuracy Speaks) but there are a ton of good ones out there. You should go inside 1.5" at 100 yards and it's best with iron sights to aim at the bottom of a target so you can resolve it better.

Donk310
09-28-2011, 5:13 PM
100 yards with iron sights, you are golden brothah. As long as you hit black. Can be better though. Its all about technique. Breathing, timing, clear front sight, most stable position... you know.. all that stuff. Try not sitting on the bench and laying prone. Don't rest the magazine. Instead, stable you self with the rifle. And control your breathing. Positive results guaranteed.

Puuloa
09-28-2011, 6:13 PM
Use a sling attached to the front swivel, attached to your upper left arm, wrap around once, your group will tighten up significantly. Remember sight alignment, sight picture, squeeze.....bang!

nitroxdiver
09-28-2011, 9:46 PM
Look into an Appleseed shoot and I promise you will come away shooting even better. It will also teach you how to practice more efficiently. Have fun and enjoy your new rifle.
Oh, and pick up a cotton USGI sling.

mif_slim
09-28-2011, 10:07 PM
You have to shoot sub-MOA on the net or else you suck at shooting period!!

;)

Your doing great for just starting. Keep at it and you'll get better.

Quinc
09-28-2011, 10:15 PM
Looks like your shooting 12MOA. :D

Get a bag or a sling. Try and find an Appleseed event to attend.

NorCalK9.com
09-28-2011, 10:37 PM
Screw the sandbags n other cheating tool. Stand up and shoot and keep doing it. You will get really good on your own. I shoot an ak74 standing at 200 yards at pull shest shots all day. Last year when I had my rra ar15 I could shoot 1 in groups sitting on the bench but could barely hit in the target standing. Wish I still had that AR sometimes.

palakaboy
09-28-2011, 10:41 PM
http://l.yimg.com/img.omg.yahoo.com/omg/us/img/b8/3e/4348_9140611992.jpg
that's a kill....

five.five-six
09-28-2011, 10:43 PM
focus on the front site post, rear site and target should be a blurry, just recreate the same "site picture" every shot. make sure you are in a comfortable shooting position, where you don't need to use any muscles to hold yourself up. dry-fire many times at the range with your "site picture" then reproduce the same trigger pull with a hot rifle.


besides that, if your shoot n see were a BG, those are all kill shots :thumbsup:

donking
09-28-2011, 10:45 PM
thats not all that great to be honest, however I'm willing to bet most of that is from resting the mag on the bench, which isn't bad, if you have something soft between the hard bench and the mag, and use your elbows for further support, but if you used just the mag, then that foot spread is to be expected. Stabilize the rifle better and you should see the group shrink substantially.

I'll take that bet as one needs to have quality ammo to shoot precise groups.
116502

GuillermoAntonio
09-29-2011, 3:15 AM
thanks much for all the replies.
answering a few things: yes, its my first rifle, but its not new, got as a trade, fulton armory lower, jd upper and a bunch of cheap aftermarket ****, nice trigger tough. I have heard of appleseed but Im never free on weekends... hard to make that and most other classes, but will continue to look out for one.
thanks for the sling and ammo suggestions, didnt know that.
kcal9, im with you, but first I need to make sure I can do it with support ;) taking baby steps...
556, that sounds just like what I do with my pistol :)
once again, thanks guys.

Uriah02
09-29-2011, 4:24 AM
Read Col Jeff Cooper's Art of the Rifle, he will help more than any single post can.

rero360
09-29-2011, 6:19 AM
I'll take that bet as one needs to have quality ammo to shoot precise groups.
116502

It doesn't matter if you are shooting FGMs, BH or a super precise hand load, if you don't have a stable position you are not going to see good results.

No knock against the OP, and looking back my first post was a little harsh, you're getting out there and learning, thats what matters.

A decent rifle assembled properly shot from a stable position should be able to shoot between 1 to 4 MOA, not granted, crappy ammo with push you out to the 4 MOA side while good ammo will bring it in closer to 1 MOA.

I'm not saying that the OP should go out and buy the cheapest, crappiest ammo on the market, that will just frustrate him in his learning experience. However he also doesn't need to go buy the most expensive ammo there is, some 55 gr surplus ammo should be perfect for the task.

What does matter and will give the best and most drastic results is a stable shooting position and practicing good marksmanship fundamentals. Getting the mag up off the hard bench, getting more support out there, utilizing proper cheekweld, sight picture, sight alignment, trigger squeeze, breathing and follow thru should make his groups shrink by half easily. And that should be expected to occur over a single trip to the range.

ZX-10R
09-29-2011, 6:58 AM
My WASR does way better. So get yourself more practice and try shooting other rounds...When I go from reloads to PMC XTAC there is a huge difference. I can group like the picture shown with my AR. Precise and Accurate.

donking
09-29-2011, 8:20 AM
It doesn't matter if you are shooting FGMs, BH or a super precise hand load, if you don't have a stable position you are not going to see good results.

....


Likewise, it doesn't matter how stable the position, if one is using crappy ammo they will have crappy results.

Resting on a bench, even with the magazine supporting the rifles weight, it is still moderately stable. With this method and good ammo one would have much better results than if they used a bipod on the bench (or sandbags under the front handguard on the bench) and crappy ammo.

thomashoward
09-29-2011, 12:37 PM
Not bad. What kind of shotgun were you using?

mif_slim
09-29-2011, 1:30 PM
Not bad. What kind of shotgun were you using?

LMBO!! THATS MESS!!! :43:

AragornElessar86
09-29-2011, 1:36 PM
Appleseed is the best training you'll get at a reasonable price. Do it.

donking
10-02-2011, 9:30 PM
My WASR does way better. So get yourself more practice and try shooting other rounds...When I go from reloads to PMC XTAC there is a huge difference. I can group like the picture shown with my AR. Precise and Accurate.

I was comparing the ATI M855 with the PMC XTAC M855 and was surprised by how much better the grouping was with the PMC. I had the same results with two different rifles on the same day.

Bought the ATI on sale for about $30 less than the PMC per case. Guess the ATI wasn't such a good deal after all.

Cuerno_de_Chivo
10-02-2011, 10:44 PM
Screw the sandbags n other cheating tool. Stand up and shoot and keep doing it. You will get really good on your own. I shoot an ak74 standing at 200 yards at pull shest shots all day. Last year when I had my rra ar15 I could shoot 1 in groups sitting on the bench but could barely hit in the target standing. Wish I still had that AR sometimes.

Yes! Yes! I'm glad someone said this (if someone else said it i'm sorry i didn't read all other replies) SHOOT STANDING! In a real situation where you'd HAVE to use your rifle, you'd be shooting STANDING not sitting very comfortably and resting your rifle on some nice bench rests. I mean maybe you'd rest it on something but most of the time it'd be standing. Plus if you master shooting from a standing position, you'll master it from shooting off bench rests and such.

But that isn't actually bad though i mean if it was a human sized target it'd be kill shots. Just practice and practice STANDING though. Using your elbow is fine as well but it is better to practice WITHOUT bench rests. I find shooting with bench rests very relaxing but i like to shoot mostly from standing. I find if you stress more about getting your groups tight, your going to not do so good. So don't stress it and you'll get some tight groups. You can get decent groups standing up though, these are mine at 100 yards using iron sights with my AR. Not the best but they are decent groups for standing up IMO.


http://i624.photobucket.com/albums/tt321/antwn102/photo-2.jpg

-hanko
10-03-2011, 5:51 AM
appleseed.org

/thread

-hanko

Caladain
10-03-2011, 6:04 AM
You're doing fine. Ignore the crusty old-guys in the thread who are elitist and need another sandwich :sleeping:

Fire a thousand rounds over a couple months (or month). Fire it standing. Fire it sitting. Fire it prone. Fire it mostly standing. HAVE FUN.

Once you're intimate with your weapon, take a class or four..having someone correct your stance, give advice, etc. Incorporate what they are saying into what you're doing. For a first time shooter, getting even a couple hits on target is nothing to not feel proud over.

You can get "reduced" targets..they simulate 200 yards at 100, 300 at 200, etc. This will help with "bad ammo" issues...even the cheapest, dirty ammo is generally accurate at 100 yards. HAVE FUN. If you're not having fun, you need to stop and figure out where it stopped being fun.

Then fire until the brass piles around your waist. Take a Magpul Dynamics or Sig course once you know how to work your weapon system and they'll teach you how to run it hard. As you can see..there are advantages to the cheaper ammo for training..you can get more trigger time for the same amount of money. Once you start noticing that 100 yards isn't a challenge (every round inside the 9) with a 100 yard target, swap to a 200 yard reduced to 100 yard target..and then work to get every round inside the 9.

Once that's no longer a challenge, then look at actually pushing to 200 with some decent ammo..but by this point you should have a few thousand rounds down range and no longer need advice of this nature.

Kinsel83
10-03-2011, 6:40 AM
I think your doing fine. Like the guys said, keep practicing. Honestly, your target looks like mine lol. But I no longer sit at the bench. I agree with the ones that said to stand while shooting. Most of all have fun!

GuillermoAntonio
10-03-2011, 1:57 PM
You're doing fine. Ignore the crusty old-guys in the thread who are elitist and need another sandwich :sleeping:

Fire a thousand rounds over a couple months (or month). Fire it standing. Fire it sitting. Fire it prone. Fire it mostly standing. HAVE FUN.

Once you're intimate with your weapon, take a class or four..having someone correct your stance, give advice, etc. Incorporate what they are saying into what you're doing. For a first time shooter, getting even a couple hits on target is nothing to not feel proud over.

You can get "reduced" targets..they simulate 200 yards at 100, 300 at 200, etc. This will help with "bad ammo" issues...even the cheapest, dirty ammo is generally accurate at 100 yards. HAVE FUN. If you're not having fun, you need to stop and figure out where it stopped being fun.

Then fire until the brass piles around your waist. Take a Magpul Dynamics or Sig course once you know how to work your weapon system and they'll teach you how to run it hard. As you can see..there are advantages to the cheaper ammo for training..you can get more trigger time for the same amount of money. Once you start noticing that 100 yards isn't a challenge (every round inside the 9) with a 100 yard target, swap to a 200 yard reduced to 100 yard target..and then work to get every round inside the 9.

Once that's no longer a challenge, then look at actually pushing to 200 with some decent ammo..but by this point you should have a few thousand rounds down range and no longer need advice of this nature.
thanks for the advise, your words make a lot of sense, I knew it couldnt be that bad considering im a total newbie. Ive only shot around 500 rounds ever with an AR, probabky 200 of those in Vegas...
I will be,taking a class sometime, just got to plan ahead, way ahead. One more thing tough, at what distance am I no longer going to be able to use my iron sights?
Thanks for all the help.

AragornElessar86
10-04-2011, 12:32 AM
We need a really catchy Appleseed music video to really drive the point home.

Milspec714
10-04-2011, 1:56 AM
Are you sure your using .223 and not 00 Buck Shot??

:hide:

Caladain
10-04-2011, 6:06 AM
thanks for the advise, your words make a lot of sense, I knew it couldnt be that bad considering im a total newbie. Ive only shot around 500 rounds ever with an AR, probabky 200 of those in Vegas...
I will be,taking a class sometime, just got to plan ahead, way ahead. One more thing tough, at what distance am I no longer going to be able to use my iron sights?
Thanks for all the help.

Depends on what iron sights you have. Standard mil-spec front post starts to cover a good portion of the target, in my eyes, at 200-300. They make target iron sights that have a much thinner or fiberoptic front blade, and match rear sights that have a very small opening. I generally want to stick to milspec for my Back Up Iron Sights.

That said, people claim (i haven't seen, but have no reason to doubt it's possible) to engage with iron sights out to 500-600.