View Full Version : upper configuration

09-28-2011, 6:35 AM
My son is trying to enlist in the Army. Problem is that after years of playing a youth and highschool defensive guard he has been and still is a big kid. He's working on that now and has lost 15 pounds trying to get down to the Army's weight standard.
During this time I figured I'd get him out to the range with my AR-15 and work on his marksmanship. Problem is My rifle has a flattop and a gas block. I'd like to get an upper with the same configuration that the army uses. So does anyone know what the barrel length and twist is and sight configuration that is used on the ranges these days. And do any of the sponsors here have anything set up like this. Thanks.

09-28-2011, 6:38 AM
Don't do that, they are going to teach him a different way than you are, and it will be hard for him to unlearn what you teach him. I know this from experience, and BRM you would think would be the same, but they have a set way of doing things in BCT and they will make him do it their way and it will throw him off.

09-28-2011, 6:45 AM
And if you insist they, if he gets and M-4 in BCT then its a 16 in barrel with a 1:7 twist, non chrome lined barrel.

here are a couple links to jt, they lack images, but the A-2 profile comes with the build in iron sights. Depending on the BCT he goes to the do have different profile AR's some are flattop.


A full M16 has a 20 inch barrel with a 1:7 twist


CAR= Colt Automatic Rifle
AR-15=Aramalite Rifle model 15 just for random trivia


09-28-2011, 6:47 AM
So should I not even let him shoot with the rifle with the red dot sight that I have? He's shot it several time already before he even decided to join up. If the advice is to leave it alone I will. I'm not going to ruin him before he has a chance. LOL. I had thought about the difference in how I shoot and how the army shoots and actually had thought about just leaving it alone.

09-28-2011, 6:51 AM

09-28-2011, 6:51 AM
The red dot will teach him bad habits

09-28-2011, 6:52 AM
Roger that.

The Virus
09-28-2011, 6:53 AM
doesnt matter, all he has to do is shut up and do what they say, how they say, when they say.
As long as he achieves "Marksman" he can move on..

09-28-2011, 6:59 AM
While I understand the argument, I strongly disogree with it. The training during basic was rushed and sort of half-assed. We did not get nearly enough instruction before being thrown into the deep end and required to shoot our qualifications. Most of us still were not zeroed when they just moved on to the next step. How you shoot that day affects your career. Knowing the rifle, how to line up the sights, how to adjust them, how to zero it, the manual of arms for it, and the basic fundamentals would be helpful. It's not like he is going to have years of bad habits to unlearn.

If you have the money I would send him to a high-end school for 4 days of training. You are not really going to be able to teach him what he needs to learn, but they will. Also, the one day classes will not be intense/thorough enough. He needs the full four days. He will leave there able to sight in his rifle with ease (the hardest part during basic) and fully understand how to use the sights, breath control, and operate the manual of arms. He will have the rifle down and a some basic fundamentals. Front sight has its detractors, but I have always found their training to be first rate. You should be able to find a discount certificate online (ebay etc.) that brings the cost of a course down from $1,500 to around $150. Just make sure the certificate is valid for their PRACTICAL RIFLE 4-DAY COURSE.

Learning it their way from that point on won't be hard. He'll have the basic vocabulary and speak the same language sort of speak.

As for the upper, the most important thing is that he learn how to use standard iron sights. You can buy a fixed rear sight that adjusts like the current use A2 sight. The adjustments on the front sight post on a flip-up sight should be the same regardless of brand. Last I checked they still used the A2 sights at basic. Somebody else should be able to confirm that.

Front Sight rents rifles and most will be configured as an A2 with irons. You can call in advanced and have them set one aside for him configured that way if you explain to him the reason he is taking the class is to prepare for basic and he needs the rifle configured with standard A2 irons only.

It is common to find students in the classes I take that are there to prepare for basic. They leave considerably more prepared than I was way back when. It is something I personally would strongly encourage.

09-28-2011, 7:09 AM
We have a nice range with several meets during the month for new shooters with NRA instructors giving lessons. And i believe we have an appleseed coming up. We live in a pretty isolated area (Ridgecrest) and 4 day classes are not available close enough to be practical with the expenses and driving backand forth. Even though this training is not the same as a 4 day class, would it help.

09-28-2011, 7:20 AM
The shorter classes teach you what you need to know, but they move onto the fun stuff way too fast. It's the boring stuff he needs to be able to do in his sleep.

1) Line up the sights properly. This messes up most new AR shooters.

2) Know how to make adjustments to the front sight and rear sight based on a sight in target. He needs to be able to look at that target and know how many clicks to adjust the front sight up or down for elevation and which way you turn it do that. Likewise he needs to know how many clicks to turn the rear sight and in which direction. All based on looking at a sight in target.


3) Work the manual of arms. Know how to load it, unload it, work the controls. All with complete comfort and ease.

4) Fix problems that come up. Clear the various malfunctions with ease and not let it rattle him.

5) Breath control. Breath, exhale, breath in, exhale, hold and squeeze the trigger gently without anticipating the recoil or rushing it. Let it fire when its ready to fire, don't MAKE IT FIRE NOW.

6) Get used to the noise and recoil. As light as the recoil is, guys who have not been around guns get rattled by the noise and recoil. It would be extremely helpful if he could get himself trained to stop blinking and flinching at the sound of gun shots. But that takes a very long time. Just being around guns as much as possible would help.

7) Trigger control. Not to flinch or rush it in anticipation of the recoil. Sort of covered this in breath control. Don't rush the pull and try and make it fire RIGHT NOW. Let the trigger break be a surprise. Squeeze/press gently rather than mashing it or forcing it. Take advantage of the reset by only releasing to the point that it resets, then start over from there (less finger movement means less being pulled off target during the process).

8) Knowing how to judge various distances properly. Knowing the difference between 15 meters, 25 meters, 50 meters, 100 meteres, etc. by sight would not hurt but the other stuff mentioned above is more important for basic.

There is more, but if he had the above down he would be way ahead of the game. They will teach him how to

09-28-2011, 7:34 AM
Thats all I want is for him to be ahead of the game.

09-28-2011, 7:43 AM
Once you get a basic M4 clone setup with carry handle A2 sights, sign him up for an Appleseed event. 70 bucks, 500 or so rounds. Great military type marksmanship training
that focus' on the above mentioned topics using army AQT targets.

09-28-2011, 7:43 AM
Tacticalcity has it right. Forget what sight it has on, knowledge of the weapon, handling, and function will have the most benefits.

Learning aperture sights will be given at BCT.

09-28-2011, 7:45 AM
we have one at the end of October. That will give me enough time to get the upper and sign him up.

The Virus
09-28-2011, 8:56 AM
Tactical City is correct. the one point I disagree with is the trigger break being a surprise.
I know exactly when my trigger is going to break on all of my weapons, it's never a surprise.

09-28-2011, 4:15 PM
Tactical City is correct. the one point I disagree with is the trigger break being a surprise.
I know exactly when my trigger is going to break on all of my weapons, it's never a surprise.
Not a surprise like in "BOO". But a surprise like in "hey cool...it just fired"

In contrast to far too many shooters deliberately forcing the trigger to fire right when they feel like it must..like in "1-2-3 bang".

09-28-2011, 4:28 PM
It wouldn't hurt to get him a rifle of his own.https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AqmgMm61Ok7WdExwaG16OENzOEZ1akp2a3Y2NjMxTEE&single=true&gid=2&output=html click on this list and study up. . . It will be good .

09-28-2011, 11:39 PM
He has a bolt action and a shotgun and right now. I think he ought to pay for his next one with the huge giant check an E1 or E2 in the military makes. Well huge for someone that isn't working now that is.Thanks everyone for their help. I'll start checking out the uppers and get one on order.