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View Full Version : Legal or not???????CAA "grip" for AR....


shansei arsenal
09-27-2011, 6:29 PM
I've seen a few pics over at ARFCOM with AR pistols and these grips.
thoughts?
my first impression is "this can't be legal"

415shooter
09-27-2011, 6:30 PM
With a bullet button it is

MongooseV8
09-27-2011, 6:31 PM
Handgun Forum....

motorwerks
09-27-2011, 6:31 PM
Calguns.net > Firearm discussions > California handguns ;)

Palmaris
09-27-2011, 7:25 PM
Calguns.net > Firearm discussions > California handguns ;)
:confused:If this installed on Ar pistol?:43:

huntercf
09-27-2011, 7:53 PM
I think it would be illegal on an AR pistol as it looks like a vertical grip.

shansei arsenal
09-27-2011, 8:02 PM
click on the pic...:eek:

btw...gun is not mime.

InGrAM
09-27-2011, 8:15 PM
I don't think it is a forward grip, considering you can already hold the magazine well. It just adds finger grooves to which you can hold it easier. But, I am not a legal expert by any means. :confused:

Bigtwin
09-27-2011, 8:27 PM
I don't think it is a forward grip, considering you can already hold the magazine well. It just adds finger grooves to which you can hold it easier. But, I am not a legal expert by any means. :confused:

This post makes the most sense to me but as stated...I am no legal expert!
I would really believe that that atchment means nothing, it does not "ADD" a VFG.

But why in the pistol forum?

vintagearms
09-27-2011, 8:46 PM
Legal. ATF letter floating around on this with approval.

richie3888
09-27-2011, 8:52 PM
Legal

huntercf
09-27-2011, 9:41 PM
click on the pic...:eek:

Ok after seeing that pict, I'm not worthy, NICE pistol!

I would definitely find out for sure if it is legal, AR pistols already can be a hassle with an uninformed LEO, when you find the info in regards to if it is legal make sure to print it out and have a copy with you whenever you take your pistol out. Keep in mind if ATF says it is ok that doesn't necessarily mean that DOJ is ok with it.
Has anyone contacted DOJ yet?

NapaCountyShooter
09-27-2011, 9:43 PM
^^^This. I wouldn't be worried about the ATF as much as the CA DOJ. They don't like to listen to Federal guidelines.

infernl
09-27-2011, 9:51 PM
And is a complete waste of money, IMO.
Cool factor for looks? -Sure, I suppose.

Kills the functionality of being able to break the weapon forward for work. The whole upper has to come off to do anything inside the lower whatsoever.

m03
09-27-2011, 9:54 PM
Wasn't this already covered by a BATFE letter posted on ARF recently? I'm pretty sure that it's good to go, but I can't find the link.

shansei arsenal
09-27-2011, 10:07 PM
Wasn't this already covered by a BATFE letter posted on ARF recently? I'm pretty sure that it's good to go, but I can't find the link.

here's the link.
it's midway down the page.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_122/525036_Request___Scans_of_any_letters_from_the_BAT FE__that_pertain_to_AR_pistols.html&page=2

will kali honor something like that though?

Quiet
09-28-2011, 6:53 AM
It's CA legal.

Because, a semi-auto pistol with a fixed 10 round or less magazine can legally have a second handgrip.

Since an AR pistol requires a magazine lock with a 10 round or less magazine to be CA legal, it would also be legal to use that magwell grip adaptor on it.





Penal Code 12276.1
(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

Modimo
09-28-2011, 7:35 AM
It's CA legal.

Because, a semi-auto pistol with a fixed 10 round or less magazine can legally have a second handgrip.

Since an AR pistol requires a magazine lock with a 10 round or less magazine to be CA legal, it would also be legal to use that magwell grip adaptor on it.





Penal Code 12276.1
(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

In regard to any pistol with a fixed magazine able to have a 2nd grip would be False... Any pistol <26" OAL with a forward handgrip will automatically throw it into AOW territory. I think you are confusing pistol and rifle laws...

Munny$hot
09-28-2011, 7:50 AM
Franklin Armory got approval to use a Magpul vertical grip (MVG) on their CA legal 11.5 AR pistol
http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS.html

JeremyS
09-28-2011, 7:57 AM
The BATFE letter implies that the mag well thing is not considered a vertical foregrip. It states that the mag well grip thing does not change the classification of a pistol outside of a pistol, whereas a vertical foregrip would push it into AOW classification.

Is there a difference between "second handgrip," "forward handgrip," and "vertical fore grip?" Are the first two allowed? It seems the CA law that I have seen and the BATFE letters make it clear to say vertical and don't mention other types of possible handgrips.

Modimo
09-28-2011, 8:02 AM
Franklin Armory got approval to use a Magpul vertical grip (MVG) on their CA legal 11.5 AR pistol
http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS.html

This is >26" OAL which allowed for the "formal approval" of their VFG.

ke6guj
09-28-2011, 9:56 AM
In regard to any pistol with a fixed magazine able to have a 2nd grip would be False... Any pistol <26" OAL with a forward handgrip will automatically throw it into AOW territory. I think you are confusing pistol and rifle laws...

no, he isn't. He prefaced his comments with "in regards to CA law". He was talking about whether or not a second handgrip would violate CA law. If you have a maglock on that pistol, you could have a VFG on your pistol without it violating CA law. Yes, you also need to worry about the feds saying that it is an AOW, but that is federal law, and not CA law. And since MAKO has a letter saying that their magwell wrap isn't considered a forward grip that would make it an AOW, then it would be federally legal as well.

chrisf
09-28-2011, 3:01 PM
I believe if you use a bullet button. Or plan b is to move to a state where you can actually do something. :-) good luck.

rorschach
09-28-2011, 3:42 PM
I'd be interested in it for any magwell-funnel properties more than as a forward grip.

21SF
09-28-2011, 4:16 PM
I think the never quit is better.

OhDannyBoy
09-28-2011, 5:24 PM
I think the never quit is better.


+1 on the NQ

Bobby Ricigliano
09-29-2011, 6:23 AM
More reasons to leave soon. What on earth about this device makes the rifle more or less dangerous? Oh wait, I could ask the same thing about flash suppressors and telescoping stocks. Nevermind.