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penciljockey
09-26-2011, 11:17 AM
I just wanted to express my lack of satisfaction when it comes to the Springfield online store for 1911 parts. I was looking at Kimber's store and theirs rocks!!!! What's up with Springfield? I would think they would make a killing selling upgrades for their 1911's. Kimber even sells grip safeties to their customers and I imagine depending on what pistol you have it should be a drop in part. I just want to swap out my mim parts for stainless. Is that too much to ask Springfield? The grip safety is the one part which is giving me the biggest headache and the thumb safety is some work too. Please Springfield sell your parts to your loyal customers.

CK_32
09-26-2011, 11:21 AM
I think Springfield wants you to buy their options on their higher priced guns rather than buy a cheaper model and upgrade that way. Get their higher priced guns sold.

Kimber has lower priced 1911's and seem like they don't mind making their money that way..

Just seems like 2 different ideas of how to make better business and more money.

penciljockey
09-26-2011, 11:24 AM
So basically SA is forcing people to buy their less expensive weapon without the options Kimber gives their customers?

MA2
09-26-2011, 1:33 PM
Some parts, they will sell, only if they are fitted and installed by them.
If you do not see it on their site, more than likely its a part they do not sell.

There are other options, as most upgrade parts are not drop-in at all.

Oh, (not sure, not sure), but Springfield does not have any stainless parts, it's a spray on, stainless looking finish.

penciljockey
09-26-2011, 1:37 PM
I did find some Springfield Stainless parts on Midway USA, but no safeties. I just don't get it.

bombadillo
09-26-2011, 1:42 PM
Why does it have to be a springfield part. There are lots of better parts out there anyway. Instead of a springfield beavertail, I'd rather get an Ed Brown beavertail in the first place. Slide stop made by others are better. You can get all kinds of parts from ed brown, wilson combat, swenson, and tons others from Midway and Brownells. Just order from there if you want a quality part.

penciljockey
09-26-2011, 2:03 PM
I realize that, but an Ed Brown grip safety is going to require
altering the frame and the grip safety to fit. Also the cost of the gunsmith and possibly shipping it out to have it done. Kimber just offers better options to their customers. I'm happy with my Springer, but I wish they would just sell parts.

penciljockey
09-26-2011, 2:05 PM
I think they would sell more 1911's if they allowed their customers to upgrade their guns.

penciljockey
09-26-2011, 9:46 PM
10 to 1 so far. I'd say that's a good indication Springfield could do better.

BDH
09-26-2011, 10:03 PM
Why worry about SAI...there are more and better parts offered by a hundred different suppliers. If they don't sell safeties, it's probably a perceived liability issue. The 1911 and the AR share one thing...easy availability of parts.
Bruce

jessegpresley
09-26-2011, 10:50 PM
This is what you do. You buy the parts you want from EGW, Brownells, Wilson, Ed Brown, 10-8, etc. Then send them to Springfield to have them installed. Not many gun makers actually make their own parts, they farm them out for others to make. If I wanted a bunch of drop in parts I'd do it myself. If you want parts fitted then you have a gunsmith to it. By your complaint I think you don't really understand the process.

InGrAM
09-26-2011, 10:54 PM
I realize that, but an Ed Brown grip safety is going to require
altering the frame and the grip safety to fit. Also the cost of the gunsmith and possibly shipping it out to have it done. Kimber just offers better options to their customers. I'm happy with my Springer, but I wish they would just sell parts.

I see what you are saying, If SA sold its own "drop-in" parts that did not require modification or refinishing to match, it would be very convenient for their costumers to modify their SA's. But then SA would lose business and sales with their pricier 1911's and there is the little problem with the fact that other companies that sell 1911 parts are very close to "drop in."

I still think it would be a good idea and I don't even own a SA 1911.

jessegpresley
09-26-2011, 11:03 PM
Kimber even sells grip safeties to their customers and I imagine depending on what pistol you have it should be a drop in part.

Wilson is the only manufacturer that makes a grip safety from bar stock. All others will be either MIM or cast. Your Kimber grip safety sold on their site will at best be cast. Please note that the Kimber website says "Some fitting may be required." The higher quality grip safeties will be oversized so that a gunsmith can fit them.

The grip safety is one part of a gun where it doesn't really matter what it's made of, as there isn't much stress put on it, unlike a barrel link or slide stop.

himurax13
09-26-2011, 11:03 PM
Some parts, they will sell, only if they are fitted and installed by them.
If you do not see it on their site, more than likely its a part they do not sell.

There are other options, as most upgrade parts are not drop-in at all.

Oh, (not sure, not sure), but Springfield does not have any stainless parts, it's a spray on, stainless looking finish.

Things like the Ambi Safeties and the Grip Safeties they will only work on if you send the gun in. They will not sell them to you. They offered to replace my Grip Safety for free but I had to send my gun in. For half of the price of shipping to Springfield, I bought a Caspian Grip Safety from Brownells (C&R dealer discount) that was basically a solid piece, and not hollowed out like the original. 5 minutes of filing, and voila. I prefer customizing my stuff instead of having the factory work on it. The only thing I won't try is the front strap checkering. I have done a fair amount of work on this beauty ;).

http://i55.tinypic.com/iva8g6.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/30hojdd.jpg

jessegpresley
09-26-2011, 11:07 PM
I see what you are saying, If SA sold its own "drop-in" parts that did not require modification or refinishing to match, it would be very convenient for their costumers to modify their SA's. But then SA would lose business and sales with their pricier 1911's and there is the little problem with the fact that other companies that sell 1911 parts are very close to "drop in."

I still think it would be a good idea and I don't even own a SA 1911.

I think you're looking at it wrong. Cynically thinking that SA isn't selling parts because they want you to buy the more expensive gun. They know that 1911 parts are sold all over by everyone. Why should they waste their time being a Midway USA Jr. selling parts when their customers can hand pick their own parts and have their 'smiths install them? Who the hell wants a Springfield or Kimber branded grip safety anyway? You already got one; in your gun.

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 10:51 AM
I think you're looking at it wrong. Cynically thinking that SA isn't selling parts because they want you to buy the more expensive gun. They know that 1911 parts are sold all over by everyone. Why should they waste their time being a Midway USA Jr. selling parts when their customers can hand pick their own parts and have their 'smiths install them? Who the hell wants a Springfield or Kimber branded grip safety anyway? You already got one; in your gun.

I wouldn't call Kimber's online store Midway USA. Funny thing Midway sells more Springfield 1911 parts than Springfield offers on their site. The other thing is I'm OK with cast parts. There's nothing wrong with cast part depending on the part. Having to send my gun in would be a pain. Shipping a gun these days isn't as easy as going to the post office and mailing it.

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 10:57 AM
Buy the way I bought Springfield parts which were absolutely drop in. I understand the grip safety and thumb safeties are rarely ever drop in part, but you figure if they come from Springfield and your gun is a Springfield it will be the closest thing to a drop in part available. My buddy has bought parts from Kimber that have dropped in and some that required very little fitting. I just can't understand why Springfield would require their customers to send their guns in.

jessegpresley
09-27-2011, 11:54 AM
but you figure if they come from Springfield and your gun is a Springfield it will be the closest thing to a drop in part available.

This is your mistake. Springfield 1911 parts don't fit into Springfield guns better than other 1911 manufacturers parts.

jessegpresley
09-27-2011, 11:57 AM
I think Springfield wants you to buy their options on their higher priced guns rather than buy a cheaper model and upgrade that way. Get their higher priced guns sold.

Kimber has lower priced 1911's and seem like they don't mind making their money that way..

Just seems like 2 different ideas of how to make better business and more money.

Springfield has low priced guns (Mil Spec), medium priced guns (TRP), and high priced guns (Custom Shop).

Because SA doesn't sell a silver colored grip safety on their website doesn't mean they do it because they're trying to upsell you on a 1911.

InGrAM
09-27-2011, 12:16 PM
I think you're looking at it wrong. Cynically thinking that SA isn't selling parts because they want you to buy the more expensive gun. They know that 1911 parts are sold all over by everyone. Why should they waste their time being a Midway USA Jr. selling parts when their customers can hand pick their own parts and have their 'smiths install them? Who the hell wants a Springfield or Kimber branded grip safety anyway? You already got one; in your gun.

People like to customize their 1911's and do it themselves. I know I do. and if SA would make parts that I knew would fit in my SA, I would be much more likely to buy from them. I am talking about SA selling parts for SA owners. Not the world supply of 1911 brands.

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 12:26 PM
People like to customize their 1911's and do it themselves. I know I do. and if SA would make parts that I knew would fit in my SA, I would be much more likely to buy from them. I am talking about SA selling parts for SA owners. Not the world supply of 1911 brands.

Yeah me too! That's all I'm saying.

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 12:58 PM
Things like the Ambi Safeties and the Grip Safeties they will only work on if you send the gun in. They will not sell them to you. They offered to replace my Grip Safety for free but I had to send my gun in. For half of the price of shipping to Springfield, I bought a Caspian Grip Safety from Brownells (C&R dealer discount) that was basically a solid piece, and not hollowed out like the original. 5 minutes of filing, and voila. I prefer customizing my stuff instead of having the factory work on it. The only thing I won't try is the front strap checkering. I have done a fair amount of work on this beauty ;).

http://i55.tinypic.com/iva8g6.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/30hojdd.jpg

What thumb safety is that?

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 12:58 PM
Things like the Ambi Safeties and the Grip Safeties they will only work on if you send the gun in. They will not sell them to you. They offered to replace my Grip Safety for free but I had to send my gun in. For half of the price of shipping to Springfield, I bought a Caspian Grip Safety from Brownells (C&R dealer discount) that was basically a solid piece, and not hollowed out like the original. 5 minutes of filing, and voila. I prefer customizing my stuff instead of having the factory work on it. The only thing I won't try is the front strap checkering. I have done a fair amount of work on this beauty ;).

http://i55.tinypic.com/iva8g6.jpg
http://i52.tinypic.com/30hojdd.jpg

What thumb safety is that?

jessegpresley
09-27-2011, 2:35 PM
People like to customize their 1911's and do it themselves. I know I do. and if SA would make parts that I knew would fit in my SA, I would be much more likely to buy from them. I am talking about SA selling parts for SA owners. Not the world supply of 1911 brands.

Kimber parts don't fit into Kimber guns any better than the average part by another manufacturer.

SA parts don't fit into SA guns any better than the average part by another manufacturer.

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 4:25 PM
Really? Is that a fact?

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 4:50 PM
So are you saying all parts for 1911's should fit any 1911?

InGrAM
09-27-2011, 4:56 PM
Kimber parts don't fit into Kimber guns any better than the average part by another manufacturer.

SA parts don't fit into SA guns any better than the average part by another manufacturer.

Well that is fine, but do SA parts match SA 1911 finishes better than say a Wilson or a Ed brown 1911 part? Yes. NTM a lot of people including myself like having one company make a set of parts, then everything can match. I am not getting what your problem is with this?

stormvet
09-27-2011, 4:57 PM
This poll shows how ridiculous it is to have a poll on this site and expect honest and thought out answers.

If you read the question and answer it based off the question asked, how can any company not selling their product to someone that wants to buy it. Make it more desirable?

The correct answer is it cant. That doesn't mean S.A. is a bad company or makes a bad gun. But are you really gonna tell me that because S.A. wont sell you a part that you may want, makes S.A. even more desirable to you then if they did. Come on.

NiteQwill
09-27-2011, 5:00 PM
Yes, in most cases a properly fitted government 1911 part will fit any 1911. Sans the obvious sig or s&with series platforms. Oversized parts are common and most, if not all, require fitting to some degree.

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 5:44 PM
Well I think SA would be making lots of customers happy if they offered parts like Kimber does. What's wrong with that? What SA 1911 owner wouldn't want that? I don't understand how anyone would say it wouldn't make owning an SA more desirable. Convenience is always something customers want.

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 6:13 PM
I've actually emailed them about this. I doubt they will do anything about it, but it's worth a try.

jessegpresley
09-27-2011, 6:18 PM
Really? Is that a fact?

Yes. Do you know understand that just because you are buying a Kimber part doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna fit a Kimber any better than an Ed Brown or EGW.

So are you saying all parts for 1911's should fit any 1911?

Essentially, yes. Many are made oversized so a gunsmith can file them down to fit perfectly. Others are drop in and require no fitting, or minimal fitting.

Well I think SA would be making lots of customers happy if they offered parts like Kimber does. What's wrong with that? What SA 1911 owner wouldn't want that? I don't understand how anyone would say it wouldn't make owning an SA more desirable. Convenience is always something customers want.

I own a Springfield 1911 and what you suggest does not make it more desirable or convenient for me.

A lot of these parts are made at the same factory, and are sold to the gun makers who in turn use them in their guns and sell the parts separately. Does it matter if the part you buy comes in a plastic bag with a Springfield sticker on it as opposed to a Kimber sticker?

Lastly, you state you want to replace a MIM part for stainless; just because something is stainless doesn't mean it's not MIM.

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 7:15 PM
Well what if it's as simple as wanting to change your blued grip safety for a non blued grip safety? I have a Springfield loaded and it has a black grip safety and I want to change it for a stainless for cosmetic purposes and I don't want to spend the money on a Wilson Bullet proof grip safety and on top of that send it to a smith to do the work. Do you see where I'm coming from?

-hanko
09-27-2011, 7:24 PM
I just wanted to express my lack of satisfaction when it comes to the Springfield online store for 1911 parts. I was looking at Kimber's store and theirs rocks!!!! What's up with Springfield? I would think they would make a killing selling upgrades for their 1911's. Kimber even sells grip safeties to their customers and I imagine depending on what pistol you have it should be a drop in part. I just want to swap out my mim parts for stainless. Is that too much to ask Springfield? The grip safety is the one part which is giving me the biggest headache and the thumb safety is some work too. Please Springfield sell your parts to your loyal customers.
Just a few thoughts...

Both a grip safety and a thumb safety are not drop-in parts...they need to be fitted to the individual gun by someone with the correct tools (in this case, typically files and stones designed for the jobs). I'm not aware of drop-in variants for either part, but if you know of some I'll stand corrected.

Check Brownells, Midway, and any other sources you can find...good place to start may be the 1911 forums. You're now not only looking for the pieces but also for somebody with the knowledge to install them correctly.

If you're interested in a diy upgrade, and/or want to become VERY knowledgeable about the 1911, get Kuhnhausen's The Colt .45 Automatic, A Shop Manual. Volume I will give you way more than you're needing now and get you up to speed for other stuff, Volume II gets into racy mods. BEST money you'll spend on your .45.

hth

-hanko

penciljockey
09-27-2011, 7:28 PM
See everything everyone is saying would still stay the same except SA would sell the parts they make for their guns and sell them to their customers. What a concept!

NiteQwill
09-27-2011, 9:50 PM
Penciljockey, I think you're missing the point... No 1911 part is truly drop in sans grips.

bombadillo
09-27-2011, 10:11 PM
So are you saying all parts for 1911's should fit any 1911?

Yeah, pretty much. Any decent 1911 SHOULD fit other 1911 parts here and there with the exception of the oddballs like Sig and a couple others like smith and wesson. Parts should interchange without issue.

jessegpresley
09-27-2011, 10:22 PM
See everything everyone is saying would still stay the same except SA would sell the parts they make for their guns and sell them to their customers. What a concept!

But they'd still need to be fitted. So if you bought an SA grip safety from SA it'd still need to be fitted, just like if you bought a grip safety from anyone else. The parts don't just all drop into a 1911; that's why they're more expensive than other guns. The hand fitting. So when SA is building an SA at their factory, they have to fit the grip safety to the gun.

I don't know how many times I can rephrase this for you.

penciljockey
09-28-2011, 11:18 AM
I don't know how many times I have to hear that. I already know that.

Sumo99
09-28-2011, 1:36 PM
Maybe SA doesn't want to sell certain parts that may need to be fitted because they don't want the average joe to do the gunsmithing.

Say you order a new grip safety from SA, you fit it yourself, you go to the range and now it's no longer working properly. Then you send the gun back to SA under their lifetime warranty and expect them to fix it on their dime. They won't because you did your own modifications then you bad mouth them on all the forums for having bad customer service.

Or, you fit the safety yourself and do a poor job. You have a negligent discharge, shoot yourself in the foot and then sue SA. You'll loose the case, but SA is still out a bunch of money defending themselves. Plus the media gets wind of the story and slams Springfield as an unsafe firearm manufacturer.

You use another company's part, the same things can still happen, but at least Springfield can say, it wasn't their part that caused the malfunction.

Just my thoughts

penciljockey
09-28-2011, 1:47 PM
Maybe SA doesn't want to sell certain parts that may need to be fitted because they don't want the average joe to do the gunsmithing.

Say you order a new grip safety from SA, you fit it yourself, you go to the range and now it's no longer working properly. Then you send the gun back to SA under their lifetime warranty and expect them to fix it on their dime. They won't because you did your own modifications then you bad mouth them on all the forums for having bad customer service.

Or, you fit the safety yourself and do a poor job. You have a negligent discharge, shoot yourself in the foot and then sue SA. You'll loose the case, but SA is still out a bunch of money defending themselves. Plus the media gets wind of the story and slams Springfield as an unsafe firearm manufacturer.

I guess other companies aren't so paranoid.

You use another company's part, the same things can still happen, but at least Springfield can say, it wasn't their part that caused the malfunction.

Just my thoughts

That's what I thought, but that can be avoided with a simple warning "All parts may need to be fitted by gunsmith or qualified person." Simple.

OK someone on this forum is offering me a stainless ambi thumb safety that came off the same gun I have. Do you want to bet it will drop in?

penciljockey
09-28-2011, 2:21 PM
I guess other companies aren't so paranoid and have better lawyers in order to avoid anything like that from happening in the first place.

penciljockey
09-28-2011, 2:23 PM
For those who think it would make SA 1911's less desirable. Does this mean Kimber is less desirable than SA? LOL!

keenkeen
09-28-2011, 4:08 PM
That's what I thought, but that can be avoided with a simple warning "All parts may need to be fitted by gunsmith or qualified person." Simple.
?

Yeah...If they just put that warning on their website than they will avoid:

Senario #1
Say you order a new grip safety from SA, you fit it yourself, you go to the range and now it's no longer working properly. Then you send the gun back to SA under their lifetime warranty and expect them to fix it on their dime. They won't because you did your own modifications then you bad mouth them on all the forums for having bad customer service.

Senario #2
Or, you fit the safety yourself and do a poor job. You have a negligent discharge, shoot yourself in the foot and then sue SA. You'll loose the case, but SA is still out a bunch of money defending themselves. Plus the media gets wind of the story and slams Springfield as an unsafe firearm manufacturer.

Its so simple...why is SA so stupid!

:facepalm:

Or perhaps, they are spending their limited time and resources building and selling complete guns...It is after all their business and they can choose to run it as they see fit.

penciljockey
09-28-2011, 5:02 PM
Yeah...If they just put that warning on their website than they will avoid:

Senario #1
Say you order a new grip safety from SA, you fit it yourself, you go to the range and now it's no longer working properly. Then you send the gun back to SA under their lifetime warranty and expect them to fix it on their dime. They won't because you did your own modifications then you bad mouth them on all the forums for having bad customer service.

Senario #2
Or, you fit the safety yourself and do a poor job. You have a negligent discharge, shoot yourself in the foot and then sue SA. You'll loose the case, but SA is still out a bunch of money defending themselves. Plus the media gets wind of the story and slams Springfield as an unsafe firearm manufacturer.

Its so simple...why is SA so stupid!

:facepalm:

Or perhaps, they are spending their limited time and resources building and selling complete guns...It is after all their business and they can choose to run it as they see fit.

Really I thought the customer was always right. Hmmmm....I guess it is their business. For awhile there I thought it was mine. My bad. :wacko:

So how is Kimber so comfortable with this? Do you think Kimber sells more 1911's than Springfield does?

keenkeen
09-28-2011, 7:08 PM
Really I thought the customer was always right. Hmmmm....I guess it is their business. For awhile there I thought it was mine. My bad. :wacko:

So how is Kimber so comfortable with this? Do you think Kimber sells more 1911's than Springfield does?

The customer is not always right but they are always the customer...

Kimber sells more 1911's but what does that have to do with how SA decides to run their business?

Sales volume means very little in most cases...

Hyundai sells about 4 times as many units as BMW, Do you think BMW should start modeling their strategy after Hyundai?

I am sure SA is happy with its approach and customer base..they understand all customers are not alike and they have chosen the type of customers they want to target in the market. Their approach is working for them, Kimbers is working for them...Why the need to decide which is correct from your point of view?

Anyway good luck getting your custom parts to match each other and fit...sounds like quite a nail driver your planing on putting together.

-hanko
09-28-2011, 8:00 PM
For those who think it would make SA 1911's less desirable. Does this mean Kimber is less desirable than SA? LOL!
The gun is about 10% of the shooting equation...i'd give the ammo 5% and the shooter 85%.

Desirable is in the eye of the beholder.

My most desirable .45's are my Colt's. Obviously, ymmv. I'd take a Kimber if Colts were not available, though I'm old enough to remember flying front sights and broken slide releases with Kimber's first 1911's. Otoh, if I wanted a gun made from non-US parts and perhaps only assembled in the US, I'd opt for SA. Again, ymmv.

This is an especially strange thread.:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

If you don't want to learn how to do the work yourself, have a gunsmith do the fitting.

-hanko

penciljockey
09-29-2011, 11:41 AM
I see your point about Kimber, but doesn't SA make and assemble guns in Brazil as well? I do agree Colt is very diserable for those who can afford it and if your made of money a custom Wilson Combat would be nice.

All I'm saying is it would be nice if SA offered the same variety of SA parts as Kimber offers to their customers. This hasn't hurt Kimber at all and their sales are higher. Yes higher sales does say something about the product and as far as I know the modern Kimber and SA are about equal in quality and function.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp? I don't understand how providing your customers with more options is a bad thing. I don't want to have to send my gun just so they will sell me the part I want.

:facepalm:

penciljockey
09-29-2011, 11:49 AM
Sorry to bother everyone with petty concerns. I'm done with this thread.

keenkeen
09-29-2011, 9:27 PM
All I'm saying is it would be nice if SA offered the same variety of SA parts as Kimber offers to their customers. This hasn't hurt Kimber at all and their sales are higher. Yes higher sales does say something about the product and as far as I know the modern Kimber and SA are about equal in quality and function.


Sounds like someone should just buy a Kimber and then all would be right with the world...

:rolleyes: