PDA

View Full Version : Help in choosing AR15


Raptor3000
09-24-2011, 10:36 PM
Hi Guys,

I am new to this, have only owned 9mm semi automatic pistol and a 22LR rifle and may be in a month or two planning to get a AR15 rifle.

Can you guys help me with which brand/make/model is reliable/recommended.h

How's the recoil with 223 round?

thanks

bob7122
09-24-2011, 10:39 PM
checkout rifle gear's rifle for around 600 bucks it is a S&W pretty nice entry level rifle imo.

http://www.riflegear.com/p-1148-sw-model-mp15-sport-rifle-california.aspx

recoil is low. if you shoot .308, 54r, or x39 you'll know that the .223 is light and easy on the shoulder.

ZX-10R
09-24-2011, 10:41 PM
Love my Daniel Defense M4. Definitely a shooter when I bench for groups.

baih777
09-25-2011, 4:09 AM
whats your budget? the choices are endless.

CK_32
09-25-2011, 6:30 AM
Google please.

You'll find 1 million threads on this...

SDM44
09-25-2011, 6:37 AM
checkout rifle gear's rifle for around 600 bucks it is a S&W pretty nice entry level rifle imo.

http://www.riflegear.com/p-1148-sw-model-mp15-sport-rifle-california.aspx.

The only thing with the S&W is that it doesn't come with a forward assist, a dust cover, and the trigger guard is molded to the lower.... if you wanted to change it out (at least it's the extended style like Magpul). However, you can always upgrade the upper later on.


If those things don't bother you, then it's a great rifle to get and shoot.

dieselpower
09-25-2011, 8:27 AM
google, there are millions of differing views on this.

What you asked us was...

I have rode a bicycle and motorcycle all my life. I am about to start driving a car. Whats the best car to buy?

Raptor3000
09-25-2011, 9:40 AM
I am looking for something around $800.

dieselpower
09-25-2011, 11:42 AM
I am looking for something around $800.

then its either S&W M&P15 Sport, a Delton inc, Model 1 Sales or a Stag Kit build from AR15sales.com + a stripped lower. Anything else is going to hit the $900+ level.

If you want optics that going to cost another $200 for a Primary Arms Aimpoint clone or buy used off the parts for sale forums.

You could also buy a complete used rifle for the $800+ fees.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=477948
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=480665

edgerly779
09-25-2011, 12:07 PM
Where are you located.?

bombadillo
09-25-2011, 12:11 PM
Instead of giving a price point, tell us what you want to do with it more. I could get you a 600 gun that shoots great at 50 yards and starts to get really crappy out past 100. If you get a 26" barrel vs a 14.5" barrel, its going to make a difference, barrel differences, twist rates, and a lot of other factors play into what you're going to do with it. Are you trying to make small holes at 100 yards from a bench or are you building a gun you plan on using for battle down the road? Anyway, post up your uses and we can help you a lot better than just saying "Here, try this."

baih777
09-25-2011, 12:20 PM
sent you a pm

LDSGJimbo
09-25-2011, 1:26 PM
That S&W looks nice and its a great price. Aside from the molded trigger gaurd is there a reason its so cheap?

MrPlink
09-25-2011, 2:46 PM
That S&W looks nice and its a great price. Aside from the molded trigger gaurd is there a reason its so cheap?

Its relatively simple.

No forward assist or dust cover.
No fancy and pointless 203 cutout on the barrel.

Its bare bones, but a solid gun for sure.

If I was on a budget and not into building, it would be the first thing on my list.
On that note, you really should consider building. Its VERY VERY VERY easy.
Unless you are legally blind and or missing a hand (probably could still do it then) it presents almost no challenge, even for somebody who has never done anything of the sort.

Beyond that, you can save $$$ by doing it this, but what ends up happening for most people building is you really dont save cash, BUT you end up with exactly what you want at a price that is considerably less than what you could pick up something pre-built from store for.

OHW
09-25-2011, 3:05 PM
A Paralax Tactical upper has all sorts of upgrades. At $599 are a steal. You can not build this for less.
Slap it on any lower for less than $900 complete total and done.

For some controversy I say the Paralax beats BCM and Riflegear brands in specs and price.

bombadillo
09-25-2011, 3:13 PM
Or get together with another calgunner who has experience building, buy him a 6 pack and see if somebody could help you put together a great gun for cheap. I put together a TKS engineering Billet lower with a Palmetto "Lower build kit" for $100, Spend $100 on the lower receiver, and spent $399 on the upper and its a 4150 chrome lined barrel, (made by FN), MP tested, full auto BCG, MPI tested bolt, HPT tested and has a handful of extras. It does have the 203 cutout which I will never use or need but its there nevertheless. All said and done after shipping, DROS, and the parts, I was out just $759 for a billet lower and you could shave more money off of everything by staying with a forged lower. I slapped a carry handle and a Boonie packer sling for $21.95 and its an awesome little carbine. Couldn't ask for better at this point. Only thing I plan on doing to it are putting a BUIS, and a cheap tasco pro-point scope I just bought today.

Raptor3000
09-25-2011, 8:51 PM
Instead of giving a price point, tell us what you want to do with it more. I could get you a 600 gun that shoots great at 50 yards and starts to get really crappy out past 100. If you get a 26" barrel vs a 14.5" barrel, its going to make a difference, barrel differences, twist rates, and a lot of other factors play into what you're going to do with it. Are you trying to make small holes at 100 yards from a bench or are you building a gun you plan on using for battle down the road? Anyway, post up your uses and we can help you a lot better than just saying "Here, try this."


I want the gun for recreation, just shoot holes in targets:)

Actually, wanted to get a S&W 15-22, which is around $500. Instead got an Marlin 795 and saving the rest to get a real AR15.

One more thing, how much will be 22LR conversion kit for an AR15?

BTw, I am in San fernando valley, Losangeles county.


thanks

Sicilian
09-25-2011, 11:52 PM
I'll give my opinion:

Composite lower for about $150 - here (http://colemantyler.com/proddetail.php?prod=PCLRC6CA)

Del-ton or DMPS Oracle upper half - around $400

These options give you a target shooting AR for about $550.

For 22LR conversion get either CMMG upper half or the CMMG conversion (http://www.botachtactical.com/cmar22lrcoki.html) (This one does not include a magazine, so it is CA compliant)

dieselpower
09-26-2011, 4:54 AM
The under $200 build plan:

Each month you spend less than $200 and buy a part (s). By the end of the year (or six months) you have a GREAT AR15 you can be proud of. You built it yourself and didn't skimp-out on parts.

At the beginning of the month you start researching what you are going to buy. Check prices, quality, style...everything you want to know. Save for the month and then buy what you want.

Month #1;
Buy a Lower for $170 after all taxes and fees. Check what your local gun shop is selling, get a final cost, not just a cost of the lower itself. Taxes and fees add up. Stick it in a dresser drawer.

#2
Next month buy a Lower Parts Kit (LPK) $80. RRA, Stag, Daniel Defense, LMT, BCM all fine. Also buy a few specialized tools, barrel wrench $10, Stock wrench $10, Clam shell block $10, Cleaning Kit $20.

#3
Next month buy a Stock Kit $100 from Stag, Magpul, BCM...whoever. An A2 kit is only $75. Since this is an under $100 month, buy a Charging Handle as well.... $15 for a cheapo and $45 for a good one... $25 for a mil-spec standard.

#4
Next month buy a Stripped upper for $120 and the forward assist (or Delron plug) and dust cover kit from Midway USA for another $20 shipped.

#5
Next month buy the Bolt Control Group (BCG). $180 shipped. Stag, BCM, DD, LMT, ArmaLite, all good.

#6
Next month either buy the barrel parts if you are going to have a Gunsmith mount the Front Sight Base, or make plans to do it yourself. In any case you can save up money this month and spend it together with the next months and buy a complete Barrel kit. The barrel is the heart of the firearm....do not skimp here. Buy a 4140, 4150 or 4150CMV from a REPUTABLE KNOWN GOOD COMPANY. Do not buy from Freds barrels at Iamamallninjajerk.com. Buy from CMMG, JP, DD, LMT, ArmaLite, Colt, Midway USA..... Research barrels, barrel steel, twist rates, gas systems and make your choices.

#7 With the money saved from Month #6 and this month, buy your barrel system. Assemble your AR15.

This weapon system is the heart of our Military, Law enforcement and Militia. All civilians from age 18-75 should own one. They should also know everything about it in order to make sure it functions.

You now understand it completely and there is no mystery to you. In the last few months you have educated yourself in all the aspects of the AR15 firearms platform. You are well on your way to being a source of knowledge for others. Post the links and articles you read as well as the deals you find along the way.

Enjoy your firearm.

bombadillo
09-26-2011, 6:49 AM
I want the gun for recreation, just shoot holes in targets:)

Actually, wanted to get a S&W 15-22, which is around $500. Instead got an Marlin 795 and saving the rest to get a real AR15.

One more thing, how much will be 22LR conversion kit for an AR15?

BTw, I am in San fernando valley, Losangeles county.


thanks


Thats great. Target guns are a lot of fun. If you want something that puts small holes at targets 100-200 yards, get a 20" Heavy barrel and start with something off that. www.pkfirearms.com has some great deals on their uppers. You could get a stainless 416 steel barreled "Predator Pursuit" upper and they are around 500 or so which would leave you enough for a lower and all. Those things are really accurate uppers for the money. I went the spendy route and got a JP upper which I had for a long time and probably put 5-10k rounds down before selling it. Medcon barrel all day would shoot quarter sized shots with PMC. My next target gun will be barreled by white oak armament and their complete 26" competition barrels. I have wanted one for years but never been patient. I'm buying either a Tikka T3 or a Ruger M77 next for a .223 paper puncher bolt gun and hope it likes the ammo I have!

Raptor3000
09-26-2011, 10:36 PM
How important is forward assist and dust cover to recreation shooter?

I am asking this question because price of S&W M&P 15 sport is very attractive, and is it possible to upgrade this rifle with dust cover and forward assist later?

thanks

tacticalcity
09-26-2011, 10:43 PM
The rifle I carried in the USAF did not have a forward assist, and to date I have never had to use one on any rifle I've owned. It did have a dust cover, which keeps dirt and debris out while on patrol or in storage. It was one heck of a rifle. Miss it dearly.

I seriously doubt you could "add" a forward assist. It is integral to the design. You can't just drill a hole in the side and add one. But you'll probably never actually need it anyway.

As for the dust cover, again, the holes need to be there to intall it. If not, then no you can't add it later.

I have never seen the S&W M&P Sport. So I have no idea if it has those holes, but it would be really silly for the holes to be there and not install the parts. So I doubt it.

I doubt you would have issues. S&W makes nice rifles.

pacifico23
09-26-2011, 11:25 PM
Cmon everyone!

People are forgetting Black Friday is coming up!!

Wait for black *rifle* Friday! Turners will be sure to have good deals. As with the good ole Armalite sale. Can't beat an Armalite m15a4 upper for 399.00-450.00. Other site will be doing the same. And so will the vendors on the Calguns.net m4carbine.net and ar-15.com

I bought mine on 4th July of last year. My whole build cost like 780. You can easily build a fantastic rifle withing that budget if you buy with the sales.

Anchors
09-27-2011, 1:12 AM
The M&P Sport is definitely a great option for the occasional, recreational shooter.
It is a very basic, stripped down AR. Which isn't a bad thing at all!
I've handled them and I like them (haven't shot one yet).
I have only used my forward assist one time. Maybe two.

If your budget is $800 though, you could save up just a little bit more and get something nicer or you could buy a stripped lower right now for about $100 (give or take, plus tax and $25 state DROS) and start there. That is what I did and my rifle came out to be around that price (basic "M4gery", except mid-length gas system as opposed to carbine). Assembling it is really fun and you learn a little bit more about how your rifle functions. It also only requires a very, very basic set of tools (I did mine with a small hammer, some pin punches, black electrical tape, and a flathead screw driver for the pistol grip. No scratches or problems in the process. I paid $6 for the punches and already had the other stuff).

Let us know what you end up going with and how it works out!

Raptor3000
09-27-2011, 1:09 PM
Thank you guys for excellent recommendations.

After reading all the response, I think i will build my own AR:)

Can you guys recommend some good parts/manufacturers? at this time have no idea. Also, please post if you have any good reading material or videos.

thanks

Sunday
09-28-2011, 11:07 AM
The problem with ARs is that you can't have just one!!! Study up this info on the link.https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AqmgMm61Ok7WdExwaG16OENzOEZ1akp2a3Y2NjMxTEE&single=true&gid=2&output=html

sapper911
09-28-2011, 1:12 PM
Palmeto State Armory has a 16in Cold Hamer forged rifle kit for 519.00. you just need a lower.
The barrel is a FN CHF 1/7 twist. it uses the m240 and m249 mg barrel steel.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/2520.php

This is a darn good deal in my opinion.

kuya51
09-28-2011, 3:38 PM
Palmeto State Armory has a 16in Cold Hamer forged rifle kit for 519.00. you just need a lower.
The barrel is a FN CHF 1/7 twist. it uses the m240 and m249 mg barrel steel.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/2520.php

This is a darn good deal in my opinion.

That is a pretty good deal. I might just do that.

Anchors
09-28-2011, 4:04 PM
Thank you guys for excellent recommendations.

After reading all the response, I think i will build my own AR:)

Can you guys recommend some good parts/manufacturers? at this time have no idea. Also, please post if you have any good reading material or videos.

thanks

Here is what I answered to someone else asking about building an AR :D
Hope it helps. Sorry for the long read ;)


TOOLS:
I assembled my lower without scratching anything using: a small hammer, pin punches (couple bucks at Home Depot), some vice grips/channel locks, and BLACK ELECTRICAL TAPE (really comes in handy for installing the bolt catch pin and not scratching the receiver...you'll see why). Make sure you have a clean table top work space. I like to put a towel down do so I can lay out all the little pins and springs without them rolling around. The towel also stops me from banging the lower against the table (yeah, I know it is a rifle, but I like to keep it scratch free at least until I hit the range with it haha).

GUIDES:
Here is a really nice video that I used my first time:
AR 15 lower - Part I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iA_Vkb2UB1w)
AR 15 lower - Part II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq4KfUaVp8M&feature=related)
Here is a good write up from ARF that has a useful guide with a picture to make sure you have all the parts in your LPK:
http://www.ar15.com/content/guides/assembly/lower/

MAJOR COMPONENTS:
1. Find an off-list "stripped lower receiver" locally with the roll mark you like the best (some have minor finish, machining, and other small differences).
This will require FFL transfer, 10-days, $25 DROS, etc. They run between $99-$200 before tax/DROS depending on what you want and where you go for regular forged lowers. Most of them are in fact $99 plus DROS/Tax though. Which gets you out the door around $135 depending on local taxes.

2. Then you can order your "lower parts kit" (also known as an LPK) online and have it shipped to your house. This will run you somewhere around $70 give or take. This contains all the parts to finish the lower (pistol grip, selector, mag catch, bolt catch, all the roll pins/detents, etc).
A) Might as well go ahead and order a Bullet Button (magazine lock) while you're at it since it becomes part of your lower parts anyway (unless you're going "featureless" [no PG, etc] which I doubt you are). Bullet Buttons are around $25 give or take. This will make it so that you need to use a small "tool" like the tip of a cartridge or a Bic pen to remove the magazine. It is really quick and easy to use. It makes the rifle California legal while still being able to retain "assault weapon features" like the pistol grip and flash suppressor.

3. The next thing you'll need is a stock assembly (comes with stock, buffer tube, buffer spring, and buffer). If you just want the basic M4 collapsible stock, you can snag one for about $80 (please be aware that getting "commercial" or "mil-spec" just means that later if you want to change the actual stock and use the same buffer tube, you'll need to get a stock that is also "commercial" or "mil-spec" to match. The diameter is slightly different. They're both fine as far as quality though).

You're around $300-$350 at this point.
NOW YOU HAVE A COMPLETE LOWER RECEIVER.


4. After you've completed that, all you need to do is simply order your "upper" (complete upper receiver which includes the barrel, bolt carrier group, charging handle, etc).
This is where the money is spent. They range anywhere from $500 to well over $1,000+. The upper is really the part that does all the "work" and you can order it online and have it shipped to your front door.
A) If your upper didn't come with carry handle sights (most don't these days). You're going to need to buy a rear iron sight. I bought a carry handle that attaches to the top of my upper and is also a rear sight. These can be found for around $75. Don't get cheap Airsoft versions like UTG. Get one made by a known gun manufacturer.

5. You just slap the upper on your now complete lower, press in the pivot pin and rear takedown pin. Function check. And you're good to go!
Make sure you order some magazines and get some ammo ahead of time so you can hit the range ASAP and enjoy yourself.

COMMENTARY:
If you decide you want to get some optics like an EOTech, AimPoint, or ACOG then be sure to pick those up too. Be aware that they can cost half the price of your whole rifle or more...
RifleGear.com (www.riflegear.com) is where I got a lot of my parts (and my lower). They also sell complete uppers from several reputable manufacturers (in addition to their proprietary brand, which is made with Daniel Defense parts for a better price than most DD uppers. Danial Defense is a very highly respected brand).

Hope this helped. Putting it together yourself is half the fun. These rifles are like Legos for grown-ups haha. There is an endless number of configurations to choose from and even after it is finished, you won't be permanently "locked in" to that style rifle. If you want to change something, you can always sell the old part and buy the new one or start a whole new rifle since receivers are so inexpensive.
I'm sure this will be a great project for you and your son. Enjoy!

-Ryan

Anchors
09-28-2011, 4:06 PM
Also, that deal form Palmetto looks pretty decent to me too. Especially if you're going for the M4/carbine style build.

Ricky-Ray
09-28-2011, 4:44 PM
Since your not going to get for at least a month or two you should try and make it out the Calgun Tactical Turkey Shoot on Nov13. I'm sure there will be plenty of AR's out there and plenty of fellow Calgunner's who will let you shot a mag or two thru theirs. I would suggest bringing your own 223 ammo.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=476645

Raptor3000
09-28-2011, 7:55 PM
If you want to buy a built AR15, who makes good ones? I see lot of companies making them.

Thanks

donking
09-28-2011, 10:14 PM
If you want to buy a built AR15, who makes good ones? I see lot of companies making them.

Thanks

Here are some links to good ones. Many of the local shops have them in-stock.
http://www.franklinarmory.com/PRODUCTS.html
http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=lcmlp-556&cat=137
http://www.spikestactical.com/new/z/complete-rifles-c-113.html
http://www.marksarmory.com/Armalite_Rifle_p/lec15a4cbk.htm
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bravo-Company-Rifle-Carbine-M4-AR15-M16-s/140.htm
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_785515_-1_772659_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

FLZ_Boy
09-28-2011, 11:00 PM
A few points I like about the the S&W M&P 15 Sport:

1. It's simple and light weight ~6.5 lbs.
2. Pricing is a good start for someone who wants to jump into the AR-15 arena and want to hold it physically to understand all the posts being mentioned.
3. You can ding and scratch up the S&W and learn from your mistakes in installation and cleaning (the price on these makes it less of a sting if you mess up somewhere). However, it's not hard at all to work or clean an AR-15.
4. For a plinker and self-defense, it does it's job.
5. It comes bare bones and may not suit someone who likes extras, but as mentioned in #1 it's light.

To end, if you are a casual enthusiast and have no further plans in modifying, this AR will fit the bill to begin with.

Nismo
09-28-2011, 11:38 PM
Palmetto has a deal now for a complete carbine FN hammer forged WITH an Aimpoint for $999. Not sure if they do CA sales for complete guns but worth a try.

dieselpower
09-29-2011, 5:12 AM
Palmetto has a deal now for a complete carbine FN hammer forged WITH an Aimpoint for $999. Not sure if they do CA sales for complete guns but worth a try.


as per PSA website....
CALIFORNIA: Only PSA stripped rifle lowers at this time.


its too bad, that deal is awesome.

bombadillo
09-29-2011, 6:45 AM
Palmetto has a deal now for a complete carbine FN hammer forged WITH an Aimpoint for $999. Not sure if they do CA sales for complete guns but worth a try.

He'd have to build it. Still a great deal. I have one of the FN forged barrels and it shoots great. Nothing but good things to say about them.

Palmetto State Armory
09-29-2011, 6:53 AM
Palmetto has a deal now for a complete carbine FN hammer forged WITH an Aimpoint for $999. Not sure if they do CA sales for complete guns but worth a try.

We will be installing Assault Planet AR15 Bullet Buttons for CA residents who would like to purchase our Patrol Carbine. Here is a link to the ad we have on here for it:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=482987

pacifico23
09-29-2011, 7:10 AM
We will be installing Assault Planet AR15 Bullet Buttons for CA residents who would like to purchase our Patrol Carbine. Here is a link to the ad we have on here for it:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=482987

Did you guys recently join? Havent seen Palmetto Vendor on here until now. If so. Welcome to Calguns! You guys have some amazing deals. You guys planning any black friday sales?

Palmetto State Armory
09-29-2011, 7:30 AM
Did you guys recently join? Havent seen Palmetto Vendor on here until now. If so. Welcome to Calguns! You guys have some amazing deals. You guys planning any black friday sales?

We very recently became a vendor, and plan on being much more active with the CA firearm community. Thanks for the welcome.

I'm not sure on what kind of sales we have coming, but I am sure we will do something.

someR1
09-29-2011, 8:22 AM
I say you get a 9mm AR upper, since you already have a 9mm pistol

Raptor3000
09-29-2011, 10:01 AM
A few points I like about the the S&W M&P 15 Sport:

1. It's simple and light weight ~6.5 lbs.
2. Pricing is a good start for someone who wants to jump into the AR-15 arena and want to hold it physically to understand all the posts being mentioned.
3. You can ding and scratch up the S&W and learn from your mistakes in installation and cleaning (the price on these makes it less of a sting if you mess up somewhere). However, it's not hard at all to work or clean an AR-15.
4. For a plinker and self-defense, it does it's job.
5. It comes bare bones and may not suit someone who likes extras, but as mentioned in #1 it's light.

To end, if you are a casual enthusiast and have no further plans in modifying, this AR will fit the bill to begin with.


More i look at this M&P Sport more i am interested because of cost and i just need it for plinking.

I want to get drop in CCM 22LR conversion kit to shoot 22s with it, does M&P 15 sport work with it?

Thanks

SDM44
09-29-2011, 11:36 AM
I just saw that Turner's will have the M&P 15 Sport rifles on sale from 9/30 - 10/6 for $649. Riflegear has them on sale for $639 right now.

Either way, good price from either place.

FLZ_Boy
09-29-2011, 8:39 PM
More i look at this M&P Sport more i am interested because of cost and i just need it for plinking.

I want to get drop in CCM 22LR conversion kit to shoot 22s with it, does M&P 15 sport work with it?

Thanks

Unfortunately, I'm not an AR enthusiast, but I'm sure someone from AR15.com can answer it.

chrisf
09-29-2011, 8:45 PM
Theres tons of selections, But if I were you I would build my own, Its a lot mor rewarding in the end. But since I'm taking your new, You can always just buy a complete upper and complete lower and snap it on. If your on a budget look at a plum crazy lower hooked on a dpms upper. all together it should only cost about $550. My first ar was of that build still till this day has never jammed or had any problems. Ive never cleaned it and its been through about 5000 rounds.