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santacruzstefan
09-24-2011, 6:00 PM
Took the new Glock 21SF out with another Calgunner today, and man, I am all over the place. Its not as bad as how I was with my old Glock 17, though I was a bit better with a CZ P-01 (sold both guns a while ago due to financial constraints at the time). However, I shot his 1911 (SA Operator) and was dead on with the first shot, then keeping the whole mag within a 4" area at 15 yards or so. This was the first time I've shot a 1911, too. So what is it? A friendly stranger came over and told me I was flinching with the Glock, and sending my shots low. That could be it. I much prefer the recoil of .45 to 9mm; everyone says 9mm is soft shooting, but it has more flip for me than .45, which is more controllable/ pleasurable to shoot. So any hints about the problem? Should I just keep dry firing it, practicing, maybe get some training? I don't think its the Glock, I'm sure its me, although maybe its me getting used to how the Glock is angled? I dunno fellas, tips are appreciated.

Please don't say I should get a 1911 instead, although after shooting Neve's... I think one is on the horizon for me anyway. But I know the Glock is capable of great accuracy, so I'd like to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Astig Boy
09-24-2011, 6:14 PM
1911s have excellent ergonomics(a more natural angle) as well as an excellent trigger. Most people experience better shooting with a 1911, even when the shooter is new. It is more forgiving even if you suffer from the flinch of anticipating the next shot with other handguns. Newer guns, notably the plastic ones have a lot of slop on the trigger, which lends itself to more flinching. I notice the better the trigger the better I shoot. The Glock may not be the hand gun for you AT THIS TIME. I myself started with a Sig P220 and moved on to a CZ, and then the HK USP...my worst shooting being with the HK even though I had years under my belt of shooting pistols...I then moved on to a 1911. The 1911 was the eye opener for me...it was like a whole new world of shooting. It was dead on since the beginning and my groups just got tighter and tighter. The more I shot the 1911 the better I got with all my hand guns.

santacruzstefan
09-24-2011, 6:18 PM
1911s have excellent ergonomics(a more natural angle) as well as an excellent trigger. Most people experience better shooting with a 1911, even when the shooter is new. It is more forgiving even if you suffer from the flinch of anticipating the next shot with other handguns. Newer guns, noteably the plastic ones have a lot of slop on the trigger, which lends itself to more flinching. The Glock may not be the hand gun for you AT THIS TIME. I myself started with a Sig P220 and moved on to a CZ, and then the HK...my worst shooting being with the HK even though I had years under my belt of shooting pistols...I then moved on to a 1911. The 1911 was the eye opener for me...it was like a whole new world of shooting. The more I shot the 1911 the better I got with all my hand guns.

Ah, so maybe become proficient with something like a 1911, then transfer my skills over to a Glock. But if I learned the basics with the Glock, wouldn't those skills transfer to a naturally- superior gun like a 1911, and make me an even better shot in the long run?

kTC xDEICIDEx
09-24-2011, 6:27 PM
Buy some of those self adhesive orange targets and place one at 25 feet and practice some dry firing. It's helped me out a lot. 

llamatrnr
09-24-2011, 6:44 PM
For what it's worth, I was shooting today with four other guys (one an NRA master pistolero (forget the designation, but top of the game) with no Glock experience (except 1 with a Glock 21 and they went ape shooting my Glock 30 - loved it, went on and on about it...

I agree with you about the recoil: I find the 9's to be very "snappy" compared to the gentle "push" of the .45, and the rest of the guys were pretty amazed at how soft shooting it is.

My shooting improved when I added Pearce extensions to the mag, allowing use of all fingers. The 21 felt horrible in my hand.

Oh, to veer off topic a bit, one guy had a brand new Mossberg 930 and we all ran a few rounds of bird and buck through it . . .yeah, baby, it's nice!

junkit_boy
09-24-2011, 6:50 PM
I find Glocks bruise my middle finger under the trigger guard after 20 rounds..Can't do them. Not to say Glock are bad..I just never found them comfortable to shoot.

Spirit 1
09-24-2011, 6:54 PM
Something that may help is to try some casual 'point' shooting also called 'snap' shooting etc. You're just pointing the gun on your target, not aligning sights & casually squezing of a round or two. Less demanding and takes much of the anticipation out of it. Actually helps become more familiar with the ergo's and can be downright priceless experience in a true high stress emergency. You get to learn where the gun naturally points with your various grip stances. 50 to 100 rounds of zero stress point shooting can get rid of whatever flinching you did have before, plus it's good old fun, nothing wrong with that!

PRCABR4Christ
09-24-2011, 6:54 PM
go to the range, pick a spot on your target, and just pound it, focus on your front sight, sight alignment and trigger press...start off at 15ft or so and keep moving back, you'll get more accurate the more you do it

aermotor
09-24-2011, 7:24 PM
Not sure how a 1911 can be superior to a Glock or even vice versa... Anyway.


Keep shooting the Glock. A bunch. Just need to get used to the trigger. I hope you're taking up all of the slack on the Glock, the crisply breaking that last little bit. Dry fire dry fire dry fire! I do it a lot with all my Glocks and it definitely helps me. Also, don't start off trying to shoot 1 inch groups or something... paste a 4" target up at 7 yards and get them all in there.

My Glock 21SF is my favorite gun to shoot. It's just so soft, to me there is far less perceived recoil than a 1911. People who say the 1911 recoils less because it's heavier are off their rocker. Shoot them both side by side and notice the difference. Just keep at it and learn where the gun needs to be aimed to impact. I had two 1911s and sold them both cause I like Glockms and their simplicity better.

I didn't like the recoil with the G17 and 9mm, it flips like you're saying. But I recently shot a G19 and was very surprised at how buttery smooth it shot... So I added it to my collection as my first 9mm. I love this little guy.

Good luck!

Killawhale415
09-24-2011, 7:39 PM
I must agree that I think nines flip a little more than .45s

.45s seem more like a generous push backwards rather than a snappy flip upwards, but then again I've only shot a few 9mms

Keep shooting the Glock and have a range buddy randomly fill a mag with snap caps and live rounds, imo this is some of the best flinch training you can.

tacticalcity
09-24-2011, 8:43 PM
PROBLEM SOLVED...

http://gofast1.com/handguncourses.php

razr
09-24-2011, 8:52 PM
You could be pushing, heeling, tightening fingers and or grip, slapping trigger or even not breathing correctly. Hire a trainer for an hour and have him work with you on your tigger and sight and a bit of double tap at the end. Its muscle memory and when you stop it goes away. At 15 yds you should get the same result with a Glock as you would with a 1911. Glocks are not known for their accuracy. If you think 9 is snappy try a 40.

himurax13
09-24-2011, 9:00 PM
I would need to see you shoot but it sounds like your need to work on your grip. A 1911 with a nice trigger would mask this problem. If you could I would try shooting a glock with a 22 kit for a while till you can get nice tight groups.

1911RONIN
09-24-2011, 9:07 PM
PROBLEM SOLVED...

http://gofast1.com/handguncourses.php

this. or this:

http://www.internationaltactical.com/index.html

Lead Waster
09-24-2011, 9:28 PM
I'm not a pro, but I believe that practice makes perfect! However, it's expesive unless you reload or use a .22. I think spending an hour or two at the range with just a .22 will help a lot. However, if you keep repeating bad habits and have no-one there to help you out will have diminishing returns.

9mmepiphany
09-24-2011, 10:42 PM
Practice won't make your shooting better, if you aren't correcting whatever you are doing incorrectly to begin with...it might actually make it worst, because you'll ingrain the bad habit.

Even just having someone show you how it should be done, or describing it, or watching a video of how it should be done won't really help if they can't watch you shoot, are able to determine what you are doing to cause it and understand how to correct the fault.

The best (quickest) and cheapest (less wasted ammo) way to go is to take some professional instruction. It doesn't take very long in a 1:1 session to start shooting very tight groups.

You're right it isn't the gun. The G21 and the G30 have been the most accurate Glocks I've ever shot

CC Gunsmithing
09-24-2011, 10:59 PM
+1 to heading to the range with a .22... You won't flinch (even subconsciously after a while) and you'll begin to realize where you natural point of aim is with your stance, and be able to tell where you may be doing something incorrectly... Take your time with the first hundred rounds (yes hundred) think about your breathing, your finger placement and pull as you exhale and all that... Your stance and posture, how comfortable you are while you're standing at the line. Try different stances and hand positions.. More than anything, stay safe and happy shooting!

bombadillo
09-24-2011, 11:03 PM
Start practicing smallbore to get rid of the flinch and alternate. I go back and forth between my .44mag, .22lr, .45acp, .22lr, 9mm, .22lr, etc. I try to get in a bunch of smallbore between each one so I don't develop too much of a flinch. It helps more than you would think and I just can't say anything that would help more. You know what makes a good shooter............SHOOTING!!!! If you get a bunch of trigger time with a smallbore gun with next to no recoil, you're going to be a better shooter. Get a little mark III 22/45 or something similar in 5" so you get some weight in it, has the ergos of a 1911, and you can get some quality trigger time without the flinch. Also, dryfire dryfire dryfire and that will help you out quite a bit. Combination of doing all of this will make you a more accurate shooter guaranteed so long as your stance, grip, and everything else are OK for you while you're out there and you're not pulling some goofy mall cop moves.

Lone_Gunman
09-24-2011, 11:07 PM
If you don't see the flash when you fire you closed your eyes. If you closed your eyes you can't possibly know if your sights were on target. Focus your eye on the front sight and make it a point for it not to move off target. If it moves off target stop squeezing the trigger and move it back on target. The target should be fuzzy, you can't focus on two distances at once so focus on the front sight. Hold the trigger to the rear for a second or so after firing. Double up on the ear protection so you hear as little as possible, this may also help with the flinching.

Top three things IMHO
1.Make sure you see the flash.
2.Focus on the front sight.
3.Hold the trigger to the rear after firing.

santacruzstefan
09-24-2011, 11:59 PM
Not sure how a 1911 can be superior to a Glock or even vice versa... Anyway.


Keep shooting the Glock. A bunch. Just need to get used to the trigger. I hope you're taking up all of the slack on the Glock, the crisply breaking that last little bit. Dry fire dry fire dry fire! I do it a lot with all my Glocks and it definitely helps me. Also, don't start off trying to shoot 1 inch groups or something... paste a 4" target up at 7 yards and get them all in there.

My Glock 21SF is my favorite gun to shoot. It's just so soft, to me there is far less perceived recoil than a 1911. People who say the 1911 recoils less because it's heavier are off their rocker. Shoot them both side by side and notice the difference. Just keep at it and learn where the gun needs to be aimed to impact. I had two 1911s and sold them both cause I like Glockms and their simplicity better.

I didn't like the recoil with the G17 and 9mm, it flips like you're saying. But I recently shot a G19 and was very surprised at how buttery smooth it shot... So I added it to my collection as my first 9mm. I love this little guy.

Good luck!

I have to agree, the 21 did feel like it recoiled less than the 1911. But the fact was, I was right on with the 1911, and barely on the paper at all with the Glock. I know it isn't the gun, and I didn't mean to suggest that the 1911 is better. And while it maybe be that I am just "naturally" better with the 1911, I want to be as good with the 21. But I like the ideas about shooting .22, and more ear pro is a good idea anyway; I just use plugs right now. I think trigger control, grip, stance and the flinch might all contribute to the problem; I guess I just need more pistol practice overall. This was my first time shooting the 21, after all.

dascoyne
09-25-2011, 6:15 AM
If you don't want to spend on ammo and want to train your trigger press consider a laser training tool.
http://www.laserlyte.com/Laser_Training_System/LT-1/LT-1.html

Lumpia is sarap!
09-25-2011, 8:07 AM
Yup, take a class.

pacifico23
09-25-2011, 8:23 AM
I have to agree, the 21 did feel like it recoiled less than the 1911. But the fact was, I was right on with the 1911, and barely on the paper at all with the Glock. I know it isn't the gun, and I didn't mean to suggest that the 1911 is better. And while it maybe be that I am just "naturally" better with the 1911, I want to be as good with the 21. But I like the ideas about shooting .22, and more ear pro is a good idea anyway; I just use plugs right now. I think trigger control, grip, stance and the flinch might all contribute to the problem; I guess I just need more pistol practice overall. This was my first time shooting the 21, after all.

Have you tried adjusting/compensating for your shots. Like if your shot was 4'' low and 2'' right. Try aiming 4' up and 2' left. If youve done it, are your groupings still all over the place?
\
I am def not the best shot with my pistols, but I am getting better and better. I do this sometimes and it helps me.

okglockman
09-25-2011, 8:32 AM
Practice, Practice, Practice. I can pick up any of my 20 pistols out of the safe and hit within a 3-4" group at 25 yards any day. After learning the basic skills, proper stance, holding, and breathing you should be able to as well. Now if I want to fine tune those skills, it will take continual practice. Since I carry my Glock model 31, .357 Sig daily, I want my skills to be as precise and accurate as possible. Practice makes perfect. I shoot my glock atleast once a week, even if it's only 15 rounds. I can also provide a deadly 1" grouping at 50 yards. Practice with all your guns, but spend extra time practicing with the one you will carry.... I may end up saving your life.

fiddletown
09-25-2011, 9:00 AM
Took the new Glock 21SF out with another Calgunner today, and man, I am all over the place. ...Should I just keep dry firing it, practicing, maybe get some training? ... I'm sure its me, ...[1] Getting some training is the best idea. It is something you are doing, and it'll help to have a good instructor watch you, identify what you're doing and show you how to correct.

Take Louis Awerbuck's fist level class at Reed's Indoor Range in Santa Clara. Louis is an outstanding instructor, a past Range Master at Gunsite, and a master at diagnosing and helping people correct marksmanship problems.

[2] Practice doesn't make perfect. Only perfect practice makes perfect. Practice makes permanent. So if you practice doing something the wrong way, you will become an expert at doing it wrong; and you will have an ingrained bad habit that will be very hard to break.

kanikas
09-25-2011, 9:20 AM
Take a class.

Voo
09-25-2011, 12:47 PM
Practice won't make your shooting better, if you aren't correcting whatever you are doing incorrectly to begin with...it might actually make it worst, because you'll ingrain the bad habit.

Even just having someone show you how it should be done, or describing it, or watching a video of how it should be done won't really help if they can't watch you shoot, are able to determine what you are doing to cause it and understand how to correct the fault.

The best (quickest) and cheapest (less wasted ammo) way to go is to take some professional instruction. It doesn't take very long in a 1:1 session to start shooting very tight groups.

You're right it isn't the gun. The G21 and the G30 have been the most accurate Glocks I've ever shot

+1

Get some private instruction.. If you're facing some struggles and are having problems with self-correction, getting personal instruction can be a great remedy.. I would recommend doing this instead of spending "XXXX" number of rounds trying to figure it out yourself..

Also, while those tactical classes are a lot of fun..They're typically not geared into making you a more accurate shooter in so much as they're training you to become a better "fighter". There's not much reason for you to learn malfunctions drills, draws from the holster, shooting pairs, when what you want to work on is accurate shooting via basic gunhandling.. Learning the fundamentals has nothing to do with any of those things I just mentioned.. All the 'tactical' classes I've taken tend to "gloss" over the basics of stance, grip and sight picture.. I'm not saying they're useless, just that you should consider taking the class that suits your requirements.. ie: im not going to take a Frontsight class if I want to learn how to be a better competitor.

People often mistake fundamentals for tactics. The two are important aspects of shooting, but they're not the same thing.