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JoeinLA
09-24-2011, 7:38 AM
Just in case anyone is going through SJC with a firearm, they will examine your case without you being present.

Flew through this week, and had to hand over my key for their inspection without my presence. Made the arguments about how that wasn't appropriate, and I had asked that an SJPD officer be present while "discussing" this with the TSA at the security area. I tried to keep the conversation friendly and "hey, I'm just trying to do what's right and to protect myself". TSA Supervisor was actually nice and understanding, but stated that the examination room was in a security-clearance-only location and that I was SOL. Made my "protest", took badge numbers of the TSA supervisor and the SJPD officer, and handed over the key. I did ask that the SJPD officer be present at the examination, but SJPD declined the offer - he stood there to oblige me, but wasn't engaged at all. TSA Supervisor was pretty nice, and did give the examination his personal attention (and even rushed (he was out of breath) the key back to me so that I wouldn't miss my flight), so I felt good about that.

Ultimately, no problems, got home and everything was there.

HellnBack
09-24-2011, 7:52 AM
It's the SOP now Bro!! that"s why they require air travellers to use TSA approved padlock so that TSA can open them anytime when suspicion arises. if your lock is not TSA rated, they have to break open and check you luggage/s. ""TSA rated or marked" means that TSA can open it with their own keys and not necessarily in your presence.

JoeinLA
09-24-2011, 7:55 AM
It was my understanding (incorrect?) that for firearms, you WEREN'T supposed to use a TSA approved lock?

okglockman
09-24-2011, 7:58 AM
Traveling with Special Items
Firearms & Ammunition

Photo of a firearm improperly packaged.
You may only transport firearms, ammunition and firearm parts in your checked baggage. Firearms, ammunition and firearm parts are prohibited from carry-on baggage.

Failure to adhere to the following regulations will preclude passengers from traveling with firearms, ammunitions or firearm parts:

Travelers must declare all firearms, ammunition, and parts to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
The firearm must be unloaded.
The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from being accessed. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort cannot be brought aboard the aircraft.
Travelers should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation.
TSA must resolve all alarms on checked luggage. If a locked container carrying a firearm alarms, TSA or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact the owner. If contact is not made, the container will not be placed on the aircraft.
Travelers must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
Travelers may not use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
Ammunition may be carried in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as it follows packing guidelines described above.
TSA prohibits black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder.
These regulations are strictly enforced. Violations can result in criminal prosecution and civil penalties of up to $10,000 per violation.

Airlines may have additional requirements for traveling with firearms and ammunition. Therefore, travelers should also contact the airline regarding firearm and ammunition carriage policies.

Also, please note that other countries have different laws that address transportation and possession of firearms. If you are traveling internationally, please check regulations at your destination about their requirements.

There are certain limited exceptions for law enforcement officers who may fly armed by meeting the requirements of Title 49 CFR 1544.219. Law enforcement officers should read our policies on traveling with guns.

garplay
09-24-2011, 8:01 AM
Unfortunately the policy on the TSA website doesn't state that inspections must be in your presence. http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

That may be a relatively recent policy change, but as the TSA is generally honest about theft (its the rest of the baggage handlers you worry about, which is why the "cheap gun in the locked shipping-box full of expensive equipment" strategy works), and I'd assume that room has cameras, the risk is very low.

In the future if you have questions about TSA policy, you can call the Office of Strategic Communications (http://boingboing.net/2010/11/23/call-the-tsas-office.html).


For those unfamiliar with the rules, firearms must be in a hard locking container, that can't be easily pried open, with a REAL lock (NOT a TSA approved lock). Thus this allows you to have your expensive equipment in a hard-sided container that the baggage handlers etc can't open. But in order to fly, you need to stick around, hand the key to the TSA, then they relock it and hand the key back after the inspections are done.

I think it used to be the policy that the inspection was done in your presence, but it looks like that's changed.

JTROKS
09-24-2011, 8:02 AM
I thought TSA have done that for years now. When my family and I were going through LAX to go overseas I was called to a bag examination area thinking they will go through my bag. As I got to the area I noticed all our bags wide open inspection done except for one that I miss removing a lock on. As I was removing the lock a female TSA agent is telling me that I should've removed the lock and next time it may just be cut open. I told her I was sorry for missing that lock, but I wasn't aware of ransacking our bags without my presence. I then told her that I'm a Master Sgt in the USAF/active duty and served 3 deployments in the sandbox, two of those being recently. She didn't care what I was telling her and she's adamant about not forgetting to unlock my bags anymore. I'm sure these folks get busy and they have to insure security, but some of them are just rude and enjoy what little power they have over travelers.

Synergy
09-24-2011, 8:06 AM
They have changed the rules. Their policy had stated that you had to be present for them to open the case. They have changed it in recent years. I ran through the same problem at SMF. I had a ticket agent yell at me: "You think you know the rules better than me!" I said: Yes I do, when it comes to firearms, since I fly with them quite often." Then I found out they changed the rules on me! :facepalm:

From United Airlines Policy:
Handguns must be packed in hard-sided lockable luggage. Baggage containing handguns must be locked at the time of acceptance by United Airlines and the key or combination retained in the passenger's custody.

http://www.united.com/page/article/0,6867,1035,00.html

At SFO they took me to a separate room behind the counter placed my case on a table and asked me to unlock it. I unlocked it, they swabbed it, checked the declaration card. I locked it back and they placed it on the conveyor and I headed to my strip-search.

Jake71
09-24-2011, 8:10 AM
Way before all this 9/11 nonsense, I transported two rifles in a hard case and when it got to the destination it had been pried open with what appeared to have been a screwdriver.

Both firearms were there but suffice to say I've never transported anything on an airplane since.

your privacy or your belongings are there for the taking.... airline approved means any unscreened, dope smoking, worthless POS can take his "airline TSA approved luggage key" and open your stuff and take what he wants.. and there's no chance of finding out who it was.

homechicken
09-24-2011, 8:27 AM
Hate the TSA? Why not sign the petition open right now at the whitehouse:

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/abolish-tsa-and-use-its-monstrous-budget-fund-more-sophisticated-less-intrusive-counter-terrorism/c7L94bFB

easy
09-24-2011, 9:23 AM
Like that^ will do any good.

SGT Loco
09-24-2011, 9:30 AM
Flew through this week, and had to hand over my key for their inspection without my presence. Made the arguments about how that wasn't appropriate, and I had asked that an SJPD officer be present while "discussing" this with the TSA at the security area. I tried to keep the conversation friendly and "hey, I'm just trying to do what's right and to protect myself". TSA Supervisor was actually nice and understanding, but stated that the examination room was in a security-clearance-only location and that I was SOL. Made my "protest", took badge numbers of the TSA supervisor and the SJPD officer, and handed over the key. I did ask that the SJPD officer be present at the examination, but SJPD declined the offer - he stood there to oblige me, but wasn't engaged at all. TSA Supervisor was pretty nice, and did give the examination his personal attention (and even rushed (he was out of breath) the key back to me so that I wouldn't miss my flight), so I felt good about that.



So, what if one were to have the appropriate clearance to enter that location. Who thinks they'd still deny you?

bwiese
09-24-2011, 11:03 AM
Bottom line, there is conflict btwn TSA and FAA rules, and operations vary as to different airport architectures.

Don't worry about who's rule you're violating - just do what the officer on hand says so you get on your flight.

You have no worries about legal matters when you're in the midst of a p*ssing matter between two agency rules.

lwlaml
09-24-2011, 11:06 AM
I fly weekly from ONT through DFW to Columbus, OH.

ONT is VERY friendly and easy. I open the suitcase, they look inside, and do the wipe. They NEVER lift or handle the Pelican case at all and have NEVER asked me to remove the locks. They just want to see that it is a hard sided case with locks.

In Columbus, I don't even have to open and show them the inside of the suit case!!! I insert the declaration form into my suitcase on top of the Pelican, then lock the suitcase with my TSA lock and hand it over. They run it through an x-ray scanner and I am out of there. No problem yet.

Lester

dan12580
09-24-2011, 11:14 AM
if you fly through houston and declare your pistols but not a upper (just the upper-not a firearm) in the same checked bag they will swarm you with roughly 8 uniformed officers and 5 or 6 plain clothes guys because the tsa guy called in someone for trying to transport a machine gun. then they will hold you for about 4 hours, make you miss your flight, break one of your pistol cases, cut your tsa approved locks, and then threaten you with 4 felony charges.

then once its all straightened out theyll hand you your stuff back and book you on the next flight with an "were sorry for the confusion". i said "f that-iam taking my guns and going home". flew out the next day. on my return trip i flew from bakersfield with another case. properly checked of course.

i get home, take my bag out of my truck and realize my zippers had been ripped off. along with my tsa lock. all my stuff was there. not to be a tinfoil helmet guy but it kind of makes me wonder.

then the best part comes about a month after. a $500 cival fine from the tsa for the "incident". iam told i can pay $250 within 30 days and they would call it good. or i can go to virginia (or wherever tsa is headquartered) and plead my case before a judge. guess what i did..........

Onlyincali
09-24-2011, 11:52 AM
WTF..... What was the $500 dollar FEE for? They had to specifically site you for SOMETHING....

Regardless, that's scary and messed up.

dan12580
09-24-2011, 12:10 PM
it was for not properly checking my guns. which is inaccurate because i had the card that was my proof i had declared what was in my bag. again- it was an upper that had caused the whole thing.

CalNRA
09-24-2011, 12:35 PM
TSA: a new way for people who couldn't become cops to fondle your children.

In many airports I've been to TSA "agents" are just private rent-a-cops.

Vacaville
09-24-2011, 12:38 PM
My wife and I use zip ties on all of our bags. That way they can remove it without busting a lock open, and we know if our bags have been gone through. I'd say they go through about 1 in 4 bags that we check.

dan12580
09-24-2011, 12:41 PM
locks have to be used on bags with firearms in them.

mugiwara
09-24-2011, 12:43 PM
im just saying, assuming a bunch of retards would know the difference between an upper and a firearm is a little much.

smle-man
09-24-2011, 1:56 PM
The case I used to bring a long arm back from the east coast a couple years ago apparently wasn't secure enough because I found heavy duty zip ties around it when I picked it up in addition to the lock. I didn't complain but I thought it was interesting. It took an additional 2 days to make it to me. I went straight to Burbank. The rifle went to San Diego, then Phoenix, then to Burbank.

ballyhoo
09-24-2011, 3:55 PM
Maybe its just me but I don't know why TSA is checking your checked luggage unless they are doing it AFTER you checked it in at the airline counter. Then if they check it, they usually put a sticker or form letter inside indicating that they have checked it.

I do believe that the TSA and local airport cops have broader coverage when it comes to searching you and your bags once you are on airport property, especially if you are going through security or are on the secure side of the airport. They can search your checked baggage and anything you attempt to bring through security all day long.....just because.

I have flown armed many times (on the job) and have also declared/checked a firearm in my checked luggage. It is the airlines rep that is responsible for checking your weapon and making sure it is unloaded and locked in the proper container, not the TSA.


The TSA has a say/stake when I actually fly armed for on the job trips. I need to notify the airlines, fill out paperwork, notify the TSA and the local cops, who both check my credentials before allowing me into the secure part of the airport. It is far less of a hassle checking a gun with my checked luggage and not taking it on the plane with me.

aermotor
09-24-2011, 4:01 PM
It's the SOP now Bro!! that"s why they require air travellers to use TSA approved padlock so that TSA can open them anytime when suspicion arises. if your lock is not TSA rated, they have to break open and check you luggage/s. ""TSA rated or marked" means that TSA can open it with their own keys and not necessarily in your presence.

^^^^^ This is FUD. Learn the rules of flying with firearms.

-hanko
09-24-2011, 7:35 PM
It's the SOP now Bro!! that"s why they require air travellers to use TSA approved padlock so that TSA can open them anytime when suspicion arises. if your lock is not TSA rated, they have to break open and check you luggage/s. ""TSA rated or marked" means that TSA can open it with their own keys and not necessarily in your presence.
If you're posting nonsense, the least you can do is go back and either edit or dump your post.;) Someone might take your post as actually factual.

-hanko

mzimmers
09-27-2011, 5:59 PM
OK, based on the last two posts, I think I now know even less than I did before about the current requirements. Can someone post something definitive?

Maybe I'll just show up at the airports with two sets of locks, and then I'll be prepared for whatever they tell me.

Thanks...

starsnuffer
09-27-2011, 6:27 PM
It was easier before we, as a nation, signed the Decoration of Surrender after 9/11. I think they called it the Patriot Act. Scumbags.

-W

motorwerks
09-27-2011, 6:49 PM
I'm driving everyplace from now on. I bought an upper a few years ago while I was in AZ..... I just fed-exed it to myself. It was insured and since I shipped it a couple days before I left AZ it was there the day I got home. :)

dan12580
09-27-2011, 7:12 PM
here is standard protocol for the 4 airports ive flown with fire arms at (codes-bfl, lax, iah, aus) always pistols. but it doesnt matter handguns or long guns.
-under 50 lbs. weight may not matter if you pay for a heavy (+50 lbs) bag
-tsa approved lock(s)
-flight certified case
-unloaded
-ammo can be with guns in same case but must be in original package or wood case
-1 gun or 20. must meet above. ive flown with 10 at a time and quantity, aside from the tsa agents curiosity, is not an issue.
-i put my pistol case inside of a suitcase for further protection and then also lock the suitcase.

now-here is the fun part- you have to show the agent that the guns are unloaded. open case and show them. i think its strange that they want someone to pull their guns out but thats what you do. they give you a card and it pulls off into 3. you get one, they get one, and one goes in the locked case.

having this card is what kept my *** out of a sling when what i posted above went down. proof that i had showed the inept agent what was in my bag. believe it or not ive gone through this process 20 or so times and 3 (i think) times ive been handed my bag back as though i can just head through security with it. also- ive been asked a couple times if iam "working the flight". air marshals maybe?

color me a tinfoil helmet but when i had my incident at iah they made a comment to the effect that i had traveled with guns several times before and should know the rules by now. (which i did and when the real police showed they seemed a little peeved at tsa for waisting their time) so i will tell you that they know who has guns on what flight and also "someone" (fed govt, tsa, airlines, ad agencies) is keeping track of who flies with guns and when.

i dont care if anyone disagrees with me on this but i assure you that i have done this a lot and this is how its gone for me. the tsa agent in bakersfield has recognized me for some time and is always cool to deal with. austin is the least hands on. lax seems to be the most clueless and houston seems to be the most vigilant- while misdirected.

Inkman
09-27-2011, 7:12 PM
May of this year for the SS Nationals my shooting bud and i.

Leaving SFO they took us downstairs and we opened our luggage in a secure area. They just checked it out in our presence and we locked everything back up. I had two guns in a double padlocked Pelican-like case and again padlocked to the inside frame a large suitcase.

Leaving STL, they never even looked in my case at all while i was there. Never asked for they keys or anything. Ran them thru an x-ray machine and said i was good to go. My bud had to hand over his key and they went thru his behind a curtain.

Got home, opened my suitcases and they had gone thru both of mine but not the padlocked gun case. Clothes were just wadded up and thrown back in like a child packing for a overniter at camp.

Lastly, at both airports, each suitcase that had guns in them also had a small round, orange sticker with "TSA inspected" put on it. The bags with no guns didn't have those. The stickers were not put on in our presence. Also the padlocks i used were NOT TSA approved.



Al

chim-chim7
09-27-2011, 7:26 PM
TSA should be able to open and inspect any bag they feel they need too. Don't take it personally, without extreme measures we might have another 9-11. If you got nothing to hide and you already declared your firearm you don't have anything to worry about. Don't make their jobs any worse than they already are. Those laws are ment to protect you. Unless you are one of the few that believe that we should only do racial profiling.

a1c
09-27-2011, 7:54 PM
TSA should be able to open and inspect any bag they feel they need too. Don't take it personally, without extreme measures we might have another 9-11. If you got nothing to hide and you already declared your firearm you don't have anything to worry about. Don't make their jobs any worse than they already are. Those laws are ment to protect you. Unless you are one of the few that believe that we should only do racial profiling.

Right. Because citizens who declare their firearms at the airline counter are obvious potential terrorists. :rolleyes:

You sir deserve neither safety nor liberty.

chim-chim7
09-27-2011, 10:20 PM
How are you so sure they are not?

aermotor
09-27-2011, 10:27 PM
For gods sake people.... STOP SAYING TO USE TSA APPROVED LOCKS ON FIREARMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


OK, based on the last two posts, I think I now know even less than I did before about the current requirements. Can someone post something definitive?

Maybe I'll just show up at the airports with two sets of locks, and then I'll be prepared for whatever they tell me.

Thanks...



Bottom line: When flying with firearms, you and only you can have the key or combo and the case can only be opened when you are present. Some local authorities like to ignore that last part and break federal(?) law. Stand your ground and ask for a supervisor. Worst comes to worst, don't get arrested obviously. But they know the rules and if they are breaking them.

Watch this: http://www.vimeo.com/3923535

Read this: http://deviating.net/firearms/packing/legal_sheet.pdf

chim-chim7
09-27-2011, 10:37 PM
Last time I flew out of San Diego I had my XD45 in a Nanovault case. I did not go back to any room. The supervisor came over and asked me to remove the gun and show her it was unloaded. I pulled back the slide and about 30 people behind me looked at me like I was gonna start shooting. I held it shoulder high and over the counter. She said ok, then told me to put it back. She then took my cell number incase TSA needed to call me. She then put a red tag on that suitcase. This was with Delta, I had no problems either way.

Nooner7
09-27-2011, 10:59 PM
below

Nooner7
09-27-2011, 10:59 PM
I flew roundtrip on Southwest from San Diego to San Jose last month with a Glock 29 and ammo in a hard case with 4 digit combo lock (first time checking a firearm). I reminded the gentleman at the counter he needed to verify that it was unloaded, and when I opened the case for him to do so, he saw a semi-auto without a magazine, which indicated to him it was unloaded...I mentioned that there could still be a round in the chamber, to which he said, "oh." I didn't pick it up and pull the slide back. After I checked my bag and went through security and was sitting at the gate, they called me on my cell phone to ask for the combo for the lock. I was hesitant, but gave it up. Gun arrived in perfect condition without anything missing. Wasn't that keen on having my gun inspected without me being present, but the process seemed efficient. No issues yet going through San Jose.

dvsdev
09-28-2011, 8:33 AM
I recently flew with two handguns through SJC, and I had the pleasure of dealing with two knowledgeable female employees. They cleared up some common misconceptions.

-The firearm declaration paper is taped on the outside of the firearm hard case IF the hard case is inside another case. The paper is placed inside the hard case if the hard case is by itself.
-The hard case needs to have NON-TSA locks, or locks that only you have the keys to. If the hard case containing firearms is inside another case, the outside case can have TSA approved locks.
-If the firearm sets off the screening alarm, they will require your key. They will call you to a counter/door and a TSA personnel will ask for your key. The TSA agent will be right back after everything clears and return your key.

I was told about the key procedure at SJC, but they didn't need my key there. They did the exact same procedure at BUR, but needed the key because it set off the Alarm.

You are not authorized to be in the screening room, so why do you think you have the right to be there? No where in the rules does it say you have the right to be present. okglockman's post looks like the most recent TSA rules, good info there.

paul0660
09-28-2011, 8:52 AM
No where in the rules does it say you have the right to be present.

True, but it they are still using this form, there is a conflict. I don't get to choose which rules to follow, and I don't think the airline or TSA should either. So far I have had my request to have a LEO escort my key to and from the security area, which is a compromise, granted.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_tp8VgRG869A/Sn9ws_Sw5EI/AAAAAAAAABs/al8T9iUlsHE/SWA%20Firearm%20Dec%20Card%202.jpg

zinfull
09-28-2011, 8:56 AM
They must of changed the rules within the last year. The last time I flew with a gun, the airlines were not suppose to put any tags on the luggage that reflected that a gun was inside the luggage. Also you had to be there for them to open your hard gun case, no giving combo or keys and NEVER have TSA locks on the gun case. It was one piece of red paper inside the suitcase to show the gun was checked so no one needed to open the gun case.

jerry

cowboy777
09-28-2011, 9:31 AM
A little trick I learned is lock your pelican case up with 2 tsa locks. That way it takes 2 keys to open it since the key has to stay in the lock while open. That way there is always 2 agents present just to keep an honest man honest. The locks also indicate if they were opened by a tsa key.

bombadillo
09-28-2011, 9:43 AM
Next time, next day air it to yourself instead of going through the hassle. Probably cheaper than buying all the TSA bull**** anyway.

crazy
09-28-2011, 9:48 AM
Hate the TSA? Why not sign the petition open right now at the whitehouse:

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/abolish-tsa-and-use-its-monstrous-budget-fund-more-sophisticated-less-intrusive-counter-terrorism/c7L94bFB

That is not the White House website, it's a fake.

crazy
09-28-2011, 9:55 AM
If you don't like TSA now, wait until they unionize.

Gryff
09-28-2011, 10:14 AM
It's the SOP now Bro!! that"s why they require air travellers to use TSA approved padlock so that TSA can open them anytime when suspicion arises. if your lock is not TSA rated, they have to break open and check you luggage/s. ""TSA rated or marked" means that TSA can open it with their own keys and not necessarily in your presence.

It is a federal crime for you to allow unauthorized people to have access to your firearm case. "Unauthorized" isn't defined in the law, so my personal definition is that if they are unauthorized to bring me into the secure area, they are unauthorized to open the case.

Without legal clarification, only sworn LEOs are "authorized" in my mind.

And don't put TSA locks on your gun case.

paul0660
09-28-2011, 10:17 AM
A little trick I learned is lock your pelican case up with 2 tsa locks. That way it takes 2 keys to open it since the key has to stay in the lock while open. That way there is always 2 agents present just to keep an honest man honest. The locks also indicate if they were opened by a tsa key.

Can't one person unlock the tsa lock, remove it, lock it, remove the key, and open the other?

scarville
09-28-2011, 10:32 AM
That is not the White House website, it's a fake.
Did Bobo forget to pay the registrar? Did the dot-gov check bounce?
:rofl2:

aermotor
09-28-2011, 11:04 AM
They must of changed the rules within the last year. The last time I flew with a gun, the airlines were not suppose to put any tags on the luggage that reflected that a gun was inside the luggage. Also you had to be there for them to open your hard gun case, no giving combo or keys and NEVER have TSA locks on the gun case. It was one piece of red paper inside the suitcase to show the gun was checked so no one needed to open the gun case.

jerry

They are not allowed to put any identifiers on the case that it's a firearm, did that actually happen to you or did you read about that?


Federal law now states: "No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm." [18 USC Sec. 922(e)] TSA will warn any airline that is marking cases that it is in violation of the law.

gose
09-28-2011, 11:09 AM
Can't one person unlock the tsa lock, remove it, lock it, remove the key, and open the other?

The point/procedure is moot, since you are NOT supposed to lock a gun case with TSA locks and since only you are supposed to have keys to your case, you kinda know if they opened your case or not...

They are not allowed to put any identifiers on the case that it's a firearm, did that actually happen to you or did you read about that?
Federal law now states: "No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm." [18 USC Sec. 922(e)] TSA will warn any airline that is marking cases that it is in violation of the law.

They've put the sticker on my cases every time I've flown with guns the last few years. The sticker doesnt necessarily mean the bag/case has guns in it, just that it was inspected. However, I'm guessing that guns/ammo is the most common reason for a TSA inspection...

crazy
09-28-2011, 11:18 AM
Look through the website. It's obviously not the White House. The address starts with wwws not www.

agent.5
09-28-2011, 11:37 AM
The address starts with wwws not www.

The prefix, by itself, is indequate to determine whether the site is real or not, whether it is www or wwws or whatever. It is possible that someone hacked the domain record and added a new server (in this case server wwws) to the domain whitehouse.gov. Or the site can be real. Considering that the wwws server also hosts a bunch of other petitions, my guess is that it is more real than fake.

garplay
09-28-2011, 1:37 PM
That is not the White House website, it's a fake.

No, its real. The Whitehouse website has the ability for ANYONE to make a petition, and this is just one such petition.

paul0660
09-28-2011, 1:52 PM
The point/procedure is moot

True. I was trying to figure out how, or what, Cowboy was thinking.

crazy
09-28-2011, 2:22 PM
No, its real. The Whitehouse website has the ability for ANYONE to make a petition, and this is just one such petition.

OK, if you say so. I just don't believe a petition to abolish TSA would be on a WH site.

garplay
09-28-2011, 4:53 PM
OK, if you say so. I just don't believe a petition to abolish TSA would be on a WH site.

Why? A lot of people even in government know the TSA is a joke.

Far more amusing are the ones about Legalizing Marijuana (https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/legalize-and-regulate-marijuana-manner-similar-alcohol/y8l45gb1), stopping animal homelessness (https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/stop-animal-homelessness-its-roots/kxBLFMx8) and admit that the ETs are here (https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/formally-acknowledge-extraterrestrial-presence-engaging-human-race-disclosure/wfYDlmlG)