View Full Version : Double Star Problem
I have an issue with a Double Star Combat Pistol. I have to give a bit of background on the weapon so some light can be shed on the legal quagmire I find myself in. I purchased the pistol for 1.3k from Gun Dealer Online’s Show room in Lancaster, PA. I was a PA resident at the time, I have since moved to California. I reviewed the laws out here carefully and read that if you own a handgun that is not on the CA DOJ approved list that if you own it when you move into the state that handgun is exempt from that law. Once here I registered the handgun (with my others) and have the registration paperwork from the CA DOJ in my safe. Once I moved I finally got to shoot it and it has since jammed twice and I had to finally take it to a gunsmith (I am a 1911 noob). Thru Calguns I had heard that US Firearms in Sunnyvale was where to go for 1911’s. So Eric and the awesome staff at USF found several issues with the pistol. Eric even spoke with the manufacturer and what had to be done to fix it. Basically I want to send it back to Double Star and have them fix it, should have been right in the first place but here is where the legal issue comes into play. I can legally ship it to Double Star, I can legally ship it to Gun Dealer Online and they can ship it to Double Star but neither Double Star nor Gun Dealer Online can ship it back to me, because it is not on the CA DOJ approved list. Ken at Gun Dealer Online was helpful and was familiar with DOJ laws but the only solution he could suggest was to get a letter from DOJ saying the handgun is legal and registered to me and then it can be shipped. Eric from USF says that as a repair gun the handgun list does not apply in this situation, I can’t seem to find anything to support or disprove this statement. I am thinking to have a gunsmith here fix it and have Double Star pay for it but having them agree to do so would be difficult.
1st I would like to ask if someone can clue me in on the legality of this situation and how I can go about getting a manufacturer to take responsibility for a 1300 dollar pistol that should have been correct in the first place.
2nd I would like to caution other people to deal with Double Star. I have spent 3 grand and change with them since April and they weren’t exactly helpful. They didn’t ask “How do we fix this”, they said, “We can’t ship it back to you”. Am I being short sided in feeling quite irritated in this situation?
3rd Thanks for reading my long post.
09-22-2011, 8:58 PM
1) Thank you for posting this...the non-rail DoubleStar 1911 pistol is on my list to do a SSE on and purchase here in CA. I will be this thread with interest to see if DoubleStar can figure out how to take care of you.
2) Others will weigh in but here is how I understand it. Your gun in not illegal to own in CA. You can have it if you are Roster Exempt (LEO, etc), If you SSE it, If you FTF it from someone else who legally owns it in CA. Soooo...
3) You can ship it to them yourself...no need for an FFL. When they ship it back it does need to go to an FFL, but as a repaired gun not a new gun.
Doublestar needs to get with the program...
09-22-2011, 9:54 PM
You don't need to involve an FFL. You can legally ship it back to the factory for repairs and they can legally ship it straight back to you. The only time you would run into any issue is if the factory REPLACED the handgun with a new one that had a different serial number. In that case it would have to go to an FFL and the new serial number would have to be DROSed to you.
You need to talk to a customer service manager. The should understand the laws regarding repairs and shipping a firearm back to the owner after repair.
I have been in contact with several other people and they have also had issues with the combat pistol and have been told by Double Star to get bent. My suggestion is to not go with Double Star. I do not want anyone to end up in this situation.
Is there somewhere I can reference this law when I call Double Star. They told me flat out "No, we cant ship it back to you", end of story so if i come back with some paperwork to prove they are incorrect, it would help my case.
09-23-2011, 8:25 AM
Call the CA DOJ - I had the same issue and there is an exception for the roster when you are the owner of a non-roistered firearm and a Mfg repairs the gun. They can return it directly to you. Now in my case the Mfg had to send me a new gun to fix the problem. The vendor initially freaked out and told me they could not send it but the CA DOJ set them straight. Give DStar the number and they should call and hear it for themselves. If the repair is a new gun (different serial number) then it goes through a FFL but if your s/n gets shipped back to you that is no problem.
Good luck. Now I know not to ever deal with DStar.
09-23-2011, 9:05 AM
You can legally ship it back to the factory for repairs and they can legally ship it straight back to you.
It is your gun and you legally own it. You can send it out for repair and the factory can send it directly back to you.
If, for some reason, they refuse to send it to your home and feel the need to send it to the FFL, there is still no roster question whatsoever. The roster has nothing to do with legality and what is or is not legal to own in the state. Ownership and roster are not related. The roster is a list of guns that are legal for an FFL to sell to a normal civilian, and nothing more. Since you already own this gun and it is already registered to you in California and you are not purchasing it from an FFL in this case, the roster does not apply to you at all, whatsoever.
Keep in mind that keeping a gun on the roster requires paying fees every single year to renew. So if Sig, let's say, has had the blued 229 on the CA roster for the last 8 years, every year they have to continue to pay to keep it current and on the roster. If they stopped, it would drop off the roster. That would mean FFL's could no longer sell them to people in CA, by that absolutely positively does NOT mean they become illegal to own or that your warranty is suddenly worthless because you can't send it out for repair and get it back. No way would it be legal to do this to people with property they already own, and Double Star should realize it. Have CA DOJ or the FFL call them or fax them segments of the law that prove it's okay.
09-23-2011, 9:11 AM
I am glad Eric is helping you, he's a good guy.
Further deep detail: the 'Unsafe handgun' law suite in 12125PC et seq has a variety of exemptions.
It really only gates acquisition of new guns dealer put in his inventory and not much more. It does NOT stop you from selling your Doublestar to me thru 'private party transfer' ("PPT") - i.e., we both meet at Eric's shop, I pay you for the gun directly, I pay Eric's fee, DROS charges, o the transfer paperwork, background check, 10 days wait, etc and then I pick up the non-Rostered handgun.
Non-Rostered handguns, as you have seen, can be moved into CA by someone moving here, or can be acquired out of state by a true dual state resident and brought back here and registered (as Personal Handgun Importer). Non-Rostered handguns can also be inherited or gifted between lineal family members (if crossing state lines, an FFL must be used to keep the ATF happy even though CA doesn't care).
12132PC paragraphs (d)/(e) exempt Rostered status for repair/return matters.
09-23-2011, 10:04 AM
As the others have said, yes, they can ship it back directly to you. It's your gun.
I had a slightly similar issue with EGW a couple of years ago. I say slightly because it lasted about as long as a good fart. :D My dad had shipped them 2 guns to be worked on, but never got around to it. Then he passed away. The guns were both long off roster. One was a Colt Combat Elite frame, and the other was a complete SA Defender in .40S&W. They were not going to ship them back because they weren't on the roster. I told them that didn't apply as they were already registered here and they were returning said guns to their home, not sending new guns. The reply was, "Oh, that's right. I forgot. So many laws you have to deal with out there." Guns were then shipped back. EGW is in Pennsylvania.
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