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Crank1000
09-22-2011, 4:20 AM
Ok, so I'm pretty new to SA rifles, and I'm having trouble putting together a list of rifles that meet my criteria, so I'm hoping the encyclepedic mind of CG can help me out here. I'd also like your opinion of the rifle (why I should or shouldn't buy it) if you don't mind. Here's the criteria:

1. Shoots cheap ammo (.223, 9mm etc)
2. Be around $1000 at the top end (not a strict limit)
3. Will accept easily found parts (ie. magpul stock, AR magazines/clips...doesn't have to be those parts specifically, just examples)
4. Prefer not to have a BB, but not a requirement.
5. I don't want to build anything. I just want to write a check.

From my research, it seems like the Mini-14 should be at the top of the list, but I'm just curious what else is out there since a lot of folks really seem to dislike them. Also, please let me know if I'm not asking the right questions too. Thanks in advance.

23 Blast
09-22-2011, 4:47 AM
If you want something that's easily customizable, one of the less expensive AR variants would fit the bill - I'm thinking either a Del-Ton, or a M&P Sport (IIRC they run in the area of $700-ish. However, you'll be stuck with the BB unless you go to one of those awkward-looking featureless stocks. People who use them say they work great, they just look funny.

As far as the Mini-14, don't let the haters dissuade you. If the design and ergonomics of that rifle appeal to you, then go for it. Check out the recent thread talking about the Mini-14 Tactical. The newer-manufacture Minis are far better than their forebears, as the barrel is thicker and more accurate, less prone to stringing shots when it gets hot. IME people who hate on the Mini either have never fired one, or are going on 20-year old stereotypes about when the original Minis indeed had accuracy issues. The downside of the Mini platform is that fewer aftermarket parts exist for it, and you can't generally slap on Magpul parts like you can with an AR. Magazines (or good ones, anyway) for the Minis are expensive. On the other hand, you don't need a BB and can drop mags freely the way the gun was intended to be used.

dieselpower
09-22-2011, 4:49 AM
S&W M&P15 Sport + a .22lr Conversion Kit .. Cheap to shoot, effective, quality, economic and can be found at most gun stores through-out California for under $800 out the door. Simply write the check, wait ten 24 hour periods and its yours.

You now own the works most versatile firearm.

edit...forgot about the flash hider/stock on the M&P... takes a bit of knowledge to convert to featureless....

zfields
09-22-2011, 6:02 AM
Dont forget about Saigas.


7.62x39 is cheap, 5.45x39 is even cheaper.

dascoyne
09-22-2011, 7:20 AM
1. Shoots cheap ammo (.223, 9mm etc)
2. Be around $1000 at the top end (not a strict limit)
3. Will accept easily found parts (ie. magpul stock, AR magazines/clips...doesn't have to be those parts specifically, just examples)
4. Prefer not to have a BB, but not a requirement.
5. I don't want to build anything. I just want to write a check.

Ruger 10/22

spend the rest of your budget on ammo and accessories

[/thread]

CessnaDriver
09-22-2011, 7:46 AM
My first rifle was a Mini-14 back in the eighties.
Years of enjoyment and reliability, bought a second one this year.
I think they make great first rifles and are keepers no matter
how many other rifles you add in the years to come.

thomasesmith3
09-22-2011, 7:46 AM
IMHO For $1000, build your own AR, if you just cut a check you will spend more money later to get the things you want, trust me everyone does!!! I just did that and it's VERY EASY!!! It's more versatile and you can customize it for specific situations without buying 10 rifles... My cost: Adams Arms complete 5.56 (more variety of ammo loads) 1:7 twist (handles heavy loads better) gas piston (easier cleaning) mid-length (smoother shooting) @ $600 in hand. Magpul MOE stock and buffer Kit @ $70 in hand. Franklin Armory Lower @ $180 in hand. Daniel Defense Lower Parts Kit @ $80 in hand. Daniel Defense fixed sights @ $110 in hand. Magpul MOE mid-length hand guard, vertical grip and light rail @ $55 in hand. Raddlock mag release $40. Total: $1130 and 1 hour to put it together with a large nailset, small screwdriver, small hammer and tape... You could save a couple hundred with a different lower and LPK. But my build is great quality Mil-Spec...

CSACANNONEER
09-22-2011, 7:53 AM
Ruger 10-22! It will provide you tons of fun while saving you a lot of money over centerfire ammo. You can mod it any way you can imagine. Save 20% of the money you'll save on ammo and put it towards a centerfire gun in the future.

someR1
09-22-2011, 8:42 AM
doesn't matter if you want to build or not, eventually we ALL have a AR15 ;)

That being said, find a local gun shop and buy a decent AR. If you don't like the BB you can always go featureless.

Crank1000
09-22-2011, 4:04 PM
I guess the main reason I don't want to build one is that I don't have a clue where to start. I don't know enough about the different manufacturers and specs of each part to know what's good and what works with what.

I'm also not particularly interested in the 10/22 as I would like the option to use this rifle in a SHTF scenario in the unlikely event I need to.

I guess it's down to buying an off the shelf AR or a Mini-14. What is everyone's opinion of the Sig 556 SCM?

thomasesmith3
09-22-2011, 4:13 PM
I was in your position, I did a lot of research!!!!! If you want I can help you get started and walk you through it... Trust me when I say it's very simple, after you have your AR you will look back and laugh... I will say though if you go off the shelf, go with high quality like Colt, Sig, LMT, or Daniel Defense... Their Quality Control is second to none...

GW
09-22-2011, 4:21 PM
Benelli MR-1
Uses AR mags
Does not require a bullet button
Very reliable and accurate
Has rails for lights scopes lasers etc
Used ones pop up at around $900
Not a lot of accessories (folding stocks, pistol grips or flash hiders would require a BB anyway)
As mentioned before Ruger Mini 14 is a good choice but can't use AR mags Lots of other accessories, are available though.
Kel Tec SU-16 is inexpensive and uses AR magazines

Kel-Tec

MrPlink
09-22-2011, 4:26 PM
S&W M&P15 Sport + a .22lr Conversion Kit .. Cheap to shoot, effective, quality, economic and can be found at most gun stores through-out California for under $800 out the door. Simply write the check, wait ten 24 hour periods and its yours.

You now own the works most versatile firearm.

edit...forgot about the flash hider/stock on the M&P... takes a bit of knowledge to convert to featureless....

good recomendation, and yeah with just a little bit of tweaking you could go featureless, all for less than 1000k.

And for even less, you could buy an AK and a fin grip and call it a night

ZX-10R
09-22-2011, 4:28 PM
Cheap AR...However, a Mini 14 and Saiga are not bad choices either.

Norsemen308
09-22-2011, 4:59 PM
honesty the saiga's have won me over,

get a 223 saiga and call it a day, i would have told you a mini14 before... but since you can get a saiga 223 for half the price, put a nice rail on it and a nice scope and they tack nails for 100 yards even have a decent grouping at 200. and still got about 200 bucks for 1000 rounds

Crank1000
09-22-2011, 6:23 PM
Benelli MR-1
Uses AR mags
Does not require a bullet button
Very reliable and accurate
Has rails for lights scopes lasers etc
Used ones pop up at around $900
Not a lot of accessories (folding stocks, pistol grips or flash hiders would require a BB anyway)
As mentioned before Ruger Mini 14 is a good choice but can't use AR mags Lots of other accessories, are available though.
Kel Tec SU-16 is inexpensive and uses AR magazines

Kel-Tec

That Benelli is gorgeous. A bit out of my range though since I'd rather not go the used route.

That Kel-tec is sure interesting. I like the *idea* of the magazine storage in the stock, and the built in bi-pod, but do they actually work ok? It seems like the stock would be really uncomfortable, and the bipod could easily be really floppy. I'm not ruling it out though as that price tag is very appealing.

honesty the saiga's have won me over,

get a 223 saiga and call it a day, i would have told you a mini14 before... but since you can get a saiga 223 for half the price, put a nice rail on it and a nice scope and they tack nails for 100 yards even have a decent grouping at 200. and still got about 200 bucks for 1000 rounds

That price tag got my attention. I feel like there are a ton of variations of the Saigas though, right? Or are there only a few CA legal ones?

Dark Mod
09-22-2011, 6:28 PM
dude just get an ar. Around $1000, with monsterman grip no bullet button, cheap ammo (.223), accepts a great many aftermarket parts (especially optix)
And it looks menacing

SxB
09-22-2011, 6:29 PM
At that price I'd be looking at smith and wesson m&p 15's and any of the Daniel defense ar's. Check out riflegear.com and then go to their rifle page then the AR page. Have one sent to your local gun shop. You can save a little money that way.

nyj09
09-22-2011, 6:41 PM
Don't get an AR... they are garbage... do yourself a favor and buy a saiga AK-47 or 74. Here is a good place to start looking http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=17660&cat=429&page=1

The only reason AR's are so popular is because of Hollywood and because they, "look cool". Spend 800 bucks on a saiga (a great gun that you will love), and I believe that arsenal will send you a certificate to un-neuter the rifle when you finally leave California. 7.62 and 5.45 is cheap, and you can have a rifle that you know will work if god forbid you ever have to go into battle.

Don't fall for the AR fallacy!!!

Spirit 1
09-22-2011, 6:41 PM
SKS & 59/66 are cheap dates, lots of fun, cheap ammo in 7.62x39 surplus. Plenty accurate for having a good time or taking deer, fine for defense. Reliable, fairly simple action, some aftermarket doo-dad's available.

robcoe
09-22-2011, 6:42 PM
Ok, so I'm pretty new to SA rifles, and I'm having trouble putting together a list of rifles that meet my criteria, so I'm hoping the encyclepedic mind of CG can help me out here. I'd also like your opinion of the rifle (why I should or shouldn't buy it) if you don't mind. Here's the criteria:

1. Shoots cheap ammo (.223, 9mm etc)
2. Be around $1000 at the top end (not a strict limit)
3. Will accept easily found parts (ie. magpul stock, AR magazines/clips...doesn't have to be those parts specifically, just examples)
4. Prefer not to have a BB, but not a requirement.
5. I don't want to build anything. I just want to write a check.

From my research, it seems like the Mini-14 should be at the top of the list, but I'm just curious what else is out there since a lot of folks really seem to dislike them. Also, please let me know if I'm not asking the right questions too. Thanks in advance.

The mini is a good option, not nearly as customizeable as an AR though

Kel-tec SU-16 is out there also, as well as 5.45 saigas(basicly an AK varient)

Benelli MR1 is very nice, but probably out of your price range

SKS if you dont mind a fixed magazine

SVT-40 if you want to go really old school, and 7.62x54 is dirt cheap.

and if you look, you can probably find an M1 Garand for under a thousand, or an M1 Carbine, both are a lot of fun, though the ammo for the carbine can be a problem at times

Then there is the whole range of .22lr semi autos, that would take it's own post to cover that topic, but in short, you can get one with most any feature you want, semi-auto, no BB, and it has the cheapest ammo of all.

And finally, if you dont mind something butt ugly with a BB, there are the high-point carbines, you can get 2-3 of them for your price range

Really, I would reccomend building an AR, it's not nearly as scary as it looks. I'm not very mechanicly inclined, and I dont have a major tool set, but after 4 beers on a saturday night I was still able to assemble my first stripped lower in about an hour. Only tools I needed were a basic bench vise, an allen wrench and a set of vise grips covered in electrical tape. All told it only cost me about $700(100 for the lower, 50 for the lower parts kit, 50 for the stock, 400 for a JSE surplus complete upper then some more for tax, dros and shipping).

SxB
09-22-2011, 6:54 PM
Ak= great reliability, super cheap ammo, accuracy sucks, long range accuracy is non-existent.
AR= reliable if maintained correctly, cheap ammo, great accuracy, long range(700-800) yards is still pretty good as long as it's not to windy.


You get what you pay for.

If your not planning on ever shooting past 300 yards and you want a weapon you can trust with your life get an ak.

If you want a weapon that is reliable, can reach out and touch someone and you can trust your life with. Get an AR.
The choice is yours.
If I was in your shoes I'd save up another 700 or so bucks and get a Noveske.

SmellOfCordite
09-22-2011, 8:02 PM
Don't get an AR... they are garbage... do yourself a favor and buy a saiga AK-47 or 74.


All I'm sayin is :whistling:

dascoyne
09-22-2011, 8:13 PM
I'm also not particularly interested in the 10/22 as I would like the option to use this rifle in a SHTF scenario in the unlikely event I need to.Then you should have said so.

Get an AR.

Crank1000
09-22-2011, 10:04 PM
Then you should have said so.

Get an AR.

I just did...you quoted it.

dascoyne
09-22-2011, 10:20 PM
I just did...you quoted it.

I meant in your initial post, obviously.

MrExel17
09-22-2011, 10:41 PM
Buy what you like if its a mini-14 do it, but I would have to agree with the board get a 10/22 and you'll still have enough for ammo!

zfields
09-22-2011, 10:46 PM
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-JrPfFM9C8p0/TlB7YwL53rI/AAAAAAAAAbc/ZGAShC37gAk/DSC00475.jpg

10/22 for a fun gun, and get yourself a saiga for HD/Plinkin with a bigger boom.

richzmn
09-23-2011, 12:10 AM
Here's a great place to start: riflegear.com bookmark this, they are great

You could get a S&W AR15 for 639. They also have Saiga's for like 400.

You could buy a complete upper and a complete lower from them. They have everything that you'll need.

Here's a sig 516 for $1000: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=252684378

Take your time, pick what you like and have great time.

richzmn
09-23-2011, 12:16 AM
Here's a Daniel Defense AR 15 for $950.

They won't ship to CA. So have it go to Henderson Defense first. They will install a bullet button etc and ship it to your local dealer.

If you don't like BB, you can go featureless later.

zod
09-23-2011, 1:24 AM
If you don't mind corrosive ammo and have a range where you could shoot it, I'd look for a WASR2. They go for almost half what your limit is (1k), 5.45 is cheap as hell (1k for under $150), 5.45 AK mags are plentiful (you can find them cheap too), and you throw a kydex wrap on the grip and go featureless (no bullet button/mag lock). Seems to fit your criteria well. For your 1k, you could have it all. Rifle, spare mags, and 1k of ammo to get you going.

zod
09-23-2011, 1:25 AM
If you don't mind corrosive ammo and have a range where you could shoot it, I'd look for a WASR2. They go for almost half what your limit is (1k), 5.45 is cheap as hell (1k for under $150), 5.45 AK mags are plentiful (you can find them cheap too), and you throw a kydex wrap on the grip and go featureless (no bullet button/mag lock). Seems to fit your criteria well. For your 1k, you could have it all. Rifle, spare mags, and 1k of ammo to get you going.