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View Full Version : Dilemma what .308 to get?


navy seabee 303
09-21-2011, 11:58 AM
Okay so we did a refi on the house and I have some extra cash for a new toy, first let me tell you I will be killing mostly paper (the occasional zombie) and I want to be doing to 500 yards so I am set on a heavy barrel. It will spend some time in the field but won't see much if any hunting. I will not have much for up grades so I am looking my best out of the box option. My short list is rather varied and I will explain why.

I should have said this first, my OTB desires are MOA or better and I do want to be able to shoot 500 yrds that will NOT be a regular occurrence, my closest range is max 300. So figure 100-300 regular shooting.

1) Remington 700 SPS Tactical
I love the feel of this rifle but have some concerns on Q/C out of Remington lately, any out of the box accuracy and reliably feed back please.

2) Savage 10-FP or 10 FCP
I have not had my hands on either of these but So far word of mouth is it is hard to beat out of the box with a Savage.

3) Ruger M77 Tactical
I have always been a fan of Rugers, love the USA made love the durability but concerned about out of the box to 500 yards, Gunblast did rate this rifle very high but looking for the average persons feed back please.

Now the one's I am torn on.

4) Ruger Scout
When I pick this thing up I instantly get a great sight picture and it feels just right, I love the iron sights because I am old school that way they probably won't fail you if you trip and fall or some other act of GOD. I am torn because I love the iron sights and love a scope but not in love with the scout scope mounting location. I wish I could use both like I can on my AR with my A2 carry handle upper.

5) Savage Scout
Basically all the same reasons as the Ruger.

Please help one rather confused person.:confused:

CessnaDriver
09-21-2011, 12:01 PM
I decided on a Ruger Scout, I'm going to go with quick disconnect scout scope so I can go back to the iron sights quickly. Researching now what are the best quick disconnect mounts. Maybe that would factor in for you.

Bongos
09-21-2011, 12:14 PM
looks like your budget is around $700, don't forget the scope. I would look at older Rem 700, see if you can find a Rem 700 Police PSS, they hoover around $700-$900 used, these comes with the HS Precision stock which are awesome and these rifles can acheive MOA out of the box. Also look at Tikka and Sako. Savage and Ruger are OK for what they are, a step up would be a Rem, Win, etc... and if you can get it in your price range then it's all the more better. Look for used guns as there are a lot of these rifles in CA but not a lot of places you can use it, in most cases an hour drive just to make it to the range, so these guns tend not to be shot alot. Also why 308, are you planning to shoot surplus? Do you reload?

Hoop
09-21-2011, 12:14 PM
Looking at your list I'm guessing you wanna spend 600-700 so I guess the SPS tactical is your best bet. I hate the hogue stock they come in though just feels goofy to me. Maybe look at an aftermarket stock like a bell/carlson.

bubbapug1
09-21-2011, 12:15 PM
I think you are doing yourself a disservice not to look at a Tikka Tactical in 308. Its gotta have a muzzle break or it will beat you up, but it will shoot sub 0.5 moa all day long. And of course to deal with all that range you need to top it off with the 20 moa rail and a 8x32 x 56 Nightforce BR scope.

navy seabee 303
09-21-2011, 12:17 PM
Driver,
You know I was thinking about that, I was curious just how far back can I move the rail back without removing the rear sight and not interfere with the ejection port.

Calishnikov
09-21-2011, 12:23 PM
If you are going with the Remington 700, which I would recommend, I would choose the SPS Varmint over the Tactical. Same 26" heavy barrel but the stock is better quality (IMHO). Besides you can upgrade to a precision stock either way. You can get a new one from buds gun shop (online) for about $550 shipped. Search around the forums, there are several threads on the 700 with good info

CessnaDriver
09-21-2011, 12:27 PM
Driver,
You know I was thinking about that, I was curious just how far back can I move the rail back without removing the rear sight and not interfere with the ejection port.



http://www.xssights.com/index.php?nID=scopemounts&cID=Scope%20Mounts&pID=scopemounts


http://www.xssights.com/scopemounts/pix/Ruger-Gunsite-Scout.jpg

navy seabee 303
09-21-2011, 12:33 PM
All great info guys thanks a lot, yes my rifle budget is in $700 range. I am still considering scopes. As far a TikKa I haven't seen many of them so i have no experience with them, please enlighten me.

Yes range time is going to be an hours drive and even then it will be only to about 300yrds, I want the ability to go 500 and know my equipment can if I am good enough.

As far as buying from an online dealer is most FFL's charge about $100+ for a transfer and I have never purchased a firearm that way and am cautious about doing so.

Calishnikov
09-21-2011, 12:34 PM
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/41046

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/42070

The tactical here has the shorter 20" barrel, but I believe you can get it with the 26" heavy barrel as well.
The 26" heavy barrel is the same as found on the 700p (police) if I'm not mistaken

Calishnikov
09-21-2011, 12:37 PM
I bought the 700 SPS varmint from buds a couple months ago. Had zero problems from buds, great customer service and awesome prices

richie3888
09-21-2011, 12:42 PM
Ar10

Colt-45
09-21-2011, 12:44 PM
I will be going with a Remington 700 SPS Tactical for the price and track record.

navy seabee 303
09-21-2011, 12:47 PM
When you ask a local dealer to provide his FFL doesn't he give a strange look or try to talk you into just "paying a little more and but it from him"? There are not many dealers in my area and the one I talked to said he would do but spent half an hour trying to talk me into a different rifle he had in stock.

Richie,

I would LOVE to have an AR10 but they are a bit above my budget right now.

navy seabee 303
09-21-2011, 12:51 PM
as recommended by bubbapug1 I just looked at the Tikka T3 Tactical, very nice rifle but I know nothing about Tikka. Any info would be great, I may have to add it to the short list. but it is closer to AR10 range in price.

CessnaDriver
09-21-2011, 12:58 PM
For the Scout.. I should say the XS rail requires the use of their ghost ring, so the factory one must go.

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Ruger-LHScout/DSC00469.JPG

navy seabee 303
09-21-2011, 1:08 PM
CessnaDriver,

Have you had the scout on the range yet?

Bongos
09-21-2011, 1:14 PM
Tikka have been around a long time, I beleive Sako owns them now. Steyr should also be part of your research. I'm partial to the Rem 700, though I own Sako and Steyr. I know most will tell you to pic up the SPS but once you change the stock and internals, your rifle is closer to the $1000 so do your research befoe you decide. Also what is your goal.. MOA or 2-3MOA?

CessnaDriver
09-21-2011, 1:15 PM
CessnaDriver,

Have you had the scout on the range yet?


I pick it up next week.
Interesting that when I went to buy it, another customer said good choice as he had bought one when they first came out and the checkout girl also had one and was happy.
I was warned that ejection sends the shells flying robustly though. But I'm used to that with the Mini-14 LOL.
Other then the whole scout rifle concept as a point of criticism, the only thing of concern was that the bolt action isn't smooth out of the box and needs some working in. So I'll see how that goes.

navy seabee 303
09-21-2011, 1:31 PM
Bongos,

Good question I should have said that, MOA or better is the performance I am looking for OTB. I will include the other you mention in my research, the internet is a blessing and a curse. It can be easy to get overwhelmed with information and making a decision like this even more difficult!

CessnaDriver,

I do love the way the Ruger fits me but I have not been able to find a good range report on it or the M77 Tactical.

CessnaDriver
09-21-2011, 1:53 PM
Bongos,

Good question I should have said that, MOA or better is the performance I am looking for OTB. I will include the other you mention in my research, the internet is a blessing and a curse. It can be easy to get overwhelmed with information and making a decision like this even more difficult!

CessnaDriver,

I do love the why the Ruger fits me but I have not been able to find a good range report on it or the M77 Tactical.


There's some Ruger Scout stuff on youtube, and reviews from the usual websites and magazines if you google around a bit. Of course some are more sales pitches then others. Nothing put me off the purchase though.

http://digital.swatmag.com/SWAT/2011/SWAT1104/?BuildGuid=2ebb9dd7-b37f-490b-b577-951fe86af2a0

Peter W Bush
09-21-2011, 2:10 PM
Buy the Savage 10FP and don't look back. There are enough aftermarket parts should you choose to upgrade and it is DEAD accurate out of the box. The barrel can be changed in your living room with a barrel vice and barrel wrench once you shoot it out. Best rifle for the money, IMO.

someR1
09-21-2011, 2:14 PM
remi 700; good resale value and lots of available upgrades, and reliable

navy seabee 303
09-21-2011, 2:20 PM
Peter,

everything you state is exactly why it is on my short list, I just have zero experience with Savage. What are your thoughts on the Savage Scout?

Peter W Bush
09-21-2011, 3:22 PM
Peter,

everything you state is exactly why it is on my short list, I just have zero experience with Savage. What are your thoughts on the Savage Scout?

I like it but if you are going to put a scope on top of the action, what is the point? If you are in LA, I would be happy to show you my Savage. 10FP with a tactical stock and an aluminum benchrest stock. I bought it with the intention of re-barreling it but I saw the previous owner's targets and figured what the heck for. They are dead accurate rifles and reasonably priced. Get a 10FP, make sure the action is properly bedded, and the rifle will shoot better than you.

MrExel17
09-21-2011, 6:32 PM
SAVAGE!!

Hoop
09-21-2011, 7:16 PM
I would LOVE to have an AR10 but they are a bit above my budget right now.

If that's what you really want wait until you can afford it, 1500 is a realistic minimum. That is about what it took me to build this:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa195/Hooperinius/16rifle.jpg

Only thing I'd change is the barrel (rainier select 16" instead) and perhaps the handguards.

Maddog5150
09-21-2011, 10:10 PM
how long till the lone is paid? example, if its 30 years, do you really want to have that rifle that you will be paying on for 30 years ;)

Colt-45
09-21-2011, 10:22 PM
If that's what you really want wait until you can afford it, 1500 is a realistic minimum. That is about what it took me to build this

$1500 with scope?

OC-Indian
09-21-2011, 10:29 PM
20" Howa with a scope for less than $600 will have you ringing the bell at 500/600 yards. Plus now you can feed it the good ammo with the $$$$ saved

NYY
09-21-2011, 11:05 PM
not even going to read any of the reply's... going to say NOT AN AUTOLOADER. unless you are a rich MOTHA SUCKA.

navy seabee 303
09-22-2011, 6:30 AM
LG,

Auto loaders are way out of my price range, but if money was not an issue I would go with an AR10 build.

The FN & CZ rifles are nice but I can't put my hands on one locally and I just cannot bring myself to spend $700+ on something I have never handled you know what I mean?

dascoyne
09-22-2011, 7:31 AM
LG,

Auto loaders are way out of my price range, but if money was not an issue I would go with an AR10 build.

The FN & CZ rifles are nice but I can't put my hands on one locally and I just cannot bring myself to spend $700+ on something I have never handled you know what I mean?Pick up a FAL ... just once. I did many years ago and vowed I'd have one. Inevitably I came to own a DSA SA58. Love it!

Oceanbob
09-22-2011, 7:44 AM
LG,

Auto loaders are way out of my price range, but if money was not an issue I would go with an AR10 build.

The FN & CZ rifles are nice but I can't put my hands on one locally and I just cannot bring myself to spend $700+ on something I have never handled you know what I mean?

Someday the ban will be lifted....(hopefully)

My long range "Autoloader"...HK 91. Even with my bad eyes I can ring the bell at 600 :)

http://i52.tinypic.com/2e0ppud.jpg

navy seabee 303
09-22-2011, 9:23 AM
Now that is a nice rifle and is on my "wish I could afford" list right next to the AR-10 and Barrett .50. :-)

navy seabee 303
09-22-2011, 9:23 AM
Now that is a nice rifle and is on my "wish I could afford" list right next to the AR-10 and Barrett .50. :-)

hcbr
09-22-2011, 9:31 AM
the remington 700 sps tactical gets my vote since i have one and it rocks! also the AR type 308 in dpms configuration is something to also consider (also have) !

navy seabee 303
09-22-2011, 9:51 AM
Leaning towards the Savage 10 FCP-K or the 700 SPS Tactical

Homebrew2
09-22-2011, 10:24 AM
... As far as buying from an online dealer is most FFL's charge about $100+ for a transfer ...

Bud's as of late has a California "approved" ffl list on their site. They "say" they are preferred due to reasonable fees. I cannot verify that.
But, if you go to Gallery of Guns (Davidsons) and pick something, anything, you can get an instant quote that will show you a list of dealers with the exact pricing, including fees. In my area, it seems some of the ffls are on both Bud's and Gallery's list. That way maybe you don't have to call everybody in your area.

navy seabee 303
09-22-2011, 11:19 AM
Homebrew2

Thanks for the tip I will look at both during lunch today! :-)

Haplo
09-22-2011, 1:32 PM
What's your budget on an optic?
Would you be ok with just shooting irons now, and spending ~1k on an optic later?

navy seabee 303
09-22-2011, 1:41 PM
Haplo

I think I with my budget I am looking at Redfield glass for now,as my abilities increases (hopefully) I would move up to better glass. I do love the iron sights on the scouts but have given a lot of thought to a picanny rail with a red dot or something along those line if I did not get a scout set up.

Peter W Bush
09-22-2011, 2:05 PM
Haplo

I think I with my budget I am looking at Redfield glass for now,as my abilities increases (hopefully) I would move up to better glass. I do love the iron sights on the scouts but have given a lot of thought to a picanny rail with a red dot or something along those line if I did not get a scout set up.

Don't bother with a red dot on a bolt gun.

Savage 10FP or Rem SPS- Around $600
Millett TRS or comprable- Around $300
EGW 20MOA base- $40
Decent rings- $50

So for around $1000 you can have an extremely accurate platform. The Remington is good if you want to upgrade everything. The Savage is good because you don't really need to upgrade anything, except maybe the stock.

Haplo
09-22-2011, 2:08 PM
Can you afford around a 10x optic from someone like Vortex, or super sniper? I've heard great things about super sniper, and 10x is a great magnification at 100-500 yards.
Optics can be a very complex area to research...but fixed 10x is a nice place to start out at. Personally the max on my AR10 is 10x (on a USO 1.8-10x).

navy seabee 303
09-22-2011, 3:13 PM
I was reading some of the Gunblast reviews on the M77 Tactical. Even if he is kinder then most in his review he did make it clear this was the absolute BEST Ruger he has ever fired, and I have seen some reviews in some of the sniper forums rating as "good" from what I would consider fair and honest reviews it seems to be about a .75 to 1.25 MOA rifle out of the box. Great for hunting and someone not looking to compete in a long range shoot. The advantage I see with the M77 is it comes with scope rings and a Harris 6-9 bi-pod. A very nice package.

I am leaning more and more towards the Savage 10FP and if I can find one at the right price a Savage 10 FCP-K, I am sure both will out shoot my skill level, I am still hung up on the 700 SPS Tactical, unlike the Ruger reviews that are just vague the reviews on this one are either "Best rifle ever built" to "I trust nothing coming out of Remington these days." At least all the Savage reviews and range reports are consistent.

FMJBT
09-22-2011, 9:01 PM
In your price range, I'd suggest the Savage 10FP. The Remingtons have a slightly smoother action than the Savage, but the Savage tends to be more accurate out of the box in my experience. With decent ammo the 10FP will shoot out to 1000 yards accurately without much effort. Aftermarket support is there for the Savage, it's just not as easy to find as Remington stuff. Also, like others have said, the Savage doesn't really need much if any aftermarket support to make it shoot extremely well. Here's my current setup on the 10FP that is my "go-to" bolt gun for long range:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6151/6174340108_2f6e2e374b_b.jpg

It's a 10FP McMillan, but I think you could get the same or better accuracy out of the non McMillan versions. This stock isn't even bedded, but the accuracy is ridiculous anyway.

For rings and bases I like TPS stuff. Outstanding quality for about half of what other high end manufacturers charge:

http://swfa.com/TPS-Mounts-C2705.aspx

For optics, I've had really good results with the ultra cheap 4-14X44 FFP Mil Dot from Famous Maker. Costs about $120.00 and works great for long range shooting. Decent glass, large amount of internal adjustment (80 MOA), and good repeatability. Can't really go wrong for the price, it's cheaper than most mounting ring sets are :) I initially put one on the Savage while researching other optics and saving up money for something truly tacticool, but once I realized that I could easily get out to 1000 yards with it, I just decided to leave well enough alone.

http://www.223cal.com/catalog.php?prod=FMT414


For ammo on a budget, Prvi Partizan 168 grain HPBT Match will be hard to beat for shooting at 500 yards. It doesn't have enough "ooomph" to get out to 1000, but should work great out to around 800. they also make a 175 grain Match load, but it uses an FMJBT bullet that doesn't seem as well balanced as the 168's. I've noticed lots of spin drift when shooting the 175's.

http://www.wideners.com/itemdetail.cfm?item_id=8458&dir=18|830|848

eastershawn
09-22-2011, 9:15 PM
in my opinion ( and please, nobody burn me at the stake)heavy barrel is not necessary on a bolt gun. you will only need a few shots from a percision rifle, so a heavy barrel that takes longer to heat up is not that important. i could see how it might be on a semi . it makes the gun much heavier, and especially front heavy. my r700 sps stainless is plenty accurate at the ranges desired by the op. btw its for sale, hehe.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=464733

but seriously though, go to a gun store and handle a heavy barrel r700 and a regular/sporting barrel and fell the weight difference. even the 20' heavy barrel of the tactical is much heavier.

Jel
09-22-2011, 9:24 PM
If you are fan of wood stocks and priced in the $700 range, you could also check out the CZ 550 American .308. I don't own the gun, however I did compare it to the Remmington 700 and the Savage, holding each at my local shop, and the CZ just felt better to me. I have not shot this gun but reviews for it are pretty good. Your other choices are good too. Good luck with the search.

ECVMatt
09-22-2011, 10:01 PM
Here are a couple of impressions of my Ruger GSR:

http://www.warriortalk.com/showthread.php?89038-Spent-the-Morning-with-the-GSR-Pictures-included

http://rugerforum.net/ruger-bolt-action/34463-ruger-gsr-update-kind-pic-heavy.html

I really like this rifle and shoot it often. It is a bit unconventional, but I am learning to use it effectively. I would stay away from the Savage Scout. It is not as well made. Look at the scope mount on the Ruger and the Savage. The iron sights on the Ruger are top notch and I love shooting without the scope. Other Savage models are extremely accurate though. Although I am currently drinking the GSR cool aid, I would also look at the Howa 1500 as others have mentioned. They are really good rifles and somewhat underrated. The Stevens 200 is a steal, but very spartan.

Get what feels best and enjoy,

Hope this helps,

Matt

novalondon
09-23-2011, 12:25 AM
Leaning towards the Savage 10 FCP-K or the 700 SPS Tactical

Savage will outshoot the 700 out of the box. You will need to do a trigger job to compete with the Savage, box gun to box gun. Have owned both and Savage will shoot tighter groups all day long under MOA. Kept the Savage model 10 and sold the Rem 700.
Shot the 700 as primary shooter on our sheriff dept swat team back in the mid 80's. It had a lot of work done to it and counted every round put thru it and I still shot better groups with the Savage.

limitdown
09-23-2011, 7:01 AM
An M14-type rifle, like LRB's M14SA or Springfield's M1A

navy seabee 303
09-23-2011, 8:49 AM
limitdown,

Those are all nice rifles and on my 'if I had the money" list but WAY out of my price range.

Go Navy
09-23-2011, 6:21 PM
Since you're looking for longer range accuracy potential, it does not make any sense, to me, for you to buy a scout type rifle. Plus, the barrel length does not do justice to the .308. Yes, I know, someone will post that "x" number of inches of barrel only do "y" etc. etc. I don't care. .308 is a powerful round so give it enough barrel. You don't see military snipers running 14 or 16 or 18 inch barrels (except maybe squad designated marksmen, but I'm talking about serious long range snipers).

I have a Savage in .243 and they are darned accurate out of the box. I'm not suggesting another caliber for you. I do recommend one of the Savage models for you in .308 if that's your caliber, and it is a fine caliber. Savage has some with their relatively new stock bedding system which makes them even more accurate.

santamonica9
09-23-2011, 6:37 PM
on the economical side: bolt action, Howa 1500 -> mine is a tack driver, ask Howie44 (he severed a boars spine last season) ** semi-auto, Saiga in 308

money no object: bolt action, either a savage or remington 700's but in longer bull barel 20" length ** semi-auto AR10 build (mmmmmm SR-25) or go old school americana M1A

dont forget some funds for a decent scope. stay away from those cheapo scopes. they suck with recoil and their adjustments knobs always end up moving around

good luck and have fun, if your in socal area PM id let you try my 308 toys :D

Synergy
09-24-2011, 9:03 AM
I am about to buy this! 10 round mag, threaded barrel, accu-trigger and accu-stock

http://www.savagearms.com/images/firearms/finder/medium/m10fcp10.png

Savage 10FCP-SR
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/models/

r3dtitan
09-24-2011, 9:44 AM
Been a big fan of the remy 700 tactical but heard great reviews about the savage 10. I have been to different stores in OC and still can't find anyone that stocks them or even carries them. where do you guys go to look, checkout, and buy savage rifles?

dascoyne
09-24-2011, 11:37 AM
Pick up a FAL and you will desire one:

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab289/longbough1/FAL01a.jpg

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab289/longbough1/FAL02a.jpg

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/ab289/longbough1/FAL03a.jpg