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Cmagic
09-20-2011, 6:34 PM
Looking for ideas on optics for a AR-15 style upper with a fixed carry handle with no rails, no hand guard rails, and a fixed iron front sight.

I've seen rails that mount to the carry handle that extend forward and drop that people have mounted Dot type optics on (no magnification/no eye relief), as well and rail mounts and direct scope mount on top of the carry handle that have optics mounted to.

Is there a issue with eye relief or elevation with the magnified scopes mounted on top of the the fixed carry handle? Blocking/disabling of the fixed iron front and rear sights that cause a problem or is there a peep mount that works with the iron sights?

Looking for viable alternatives for the fixed carry handle upper instead of buying a new upper for optics. "I have it and shot it" responses are appreciated :)

Thanks!

CK_32
09-20-2011, 7:19 PM
I'm not a fan and think it looks retarded and think you should just leave it iron sights. But that's just me.

But I think la rue or aimpoint has a mount for the carry handle.

ElvenSoul
09-20-2011, 7:21 PM
SUIT Scope! Go old school.

dieselpower
09-20-2011, 7:29 PM
Hako Blue Rings 3x21, 4x20 scopes are very nice if you can find them. The Colt scope of the same design are just as good. The Colt scopes cost more for the name.

Mounting an optic on top of a rail mounted on a Carry Handle can place the optic too high for a proper cheek weld. That is why they made a saddle to fit over the A2 stock and give the shooter a cheek weld.

The ARMS #39+ mounts to the Carry Handle. You can mount a scope over the Handle or a Red Dot in front of it in direct line of sight of the BUIS. Warning... An EOTech mounted on this rail will BLOCK the BUIS. They make a special mount for EOTechs. An Aimpoint or other RDS will 100% co-witness with the BUIS.

The ACOG, Reflex on a duckbill mount is very comfortable to use. It places the optic inline with the BUIS. 100% co-witness. The only flaw is the Optic in my opinion.

These are the four A2 systems I have used and each has its merit and flaws.

The only way to get a proper optic set up on an AR15 is to go flat top. All other options are an after-thought adaption to the weapon system. My suggestion is to go with the Hako/Colt 4x20 / 4x21 / 3x20 / 3x21 or exchange the A2 upper for a A3 flat top.

Full Clip
09-20-2011, 7:36 PM
I've posted this before, my x39 Colt upper AR with an Aimpoint T1:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-3/981624/ARx39-Carbine-1.gif.jpg

The mount is just a cheap KZ unit (http://www.botachtactical.com/kzaimisehtmo.html) that came with the T1 in a package deal. Has held zero just fine after more than 1K rounds. Works great out to 200 yards.
And you can still use your irons.

ElvenSoul
09-20-2011, 7:48 PM
Old School IDF Designated Marksman Rifle.

brando
09-20-2011, 7:50 PM
I ran an Aimpoint 1000 on a fixed carry handle CAR-15 about 20 years ago. A modern version of that would be a CompM4 or T-1.

dieselpower
09-20-2011, 10:13 PM
Pics of a Colt and Hako http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=410993

My old ARMS#39+ with EOTech, the best Rabbit gun I owned. I could feed a small village with the amount of rabbits I took in one night with that set up.
http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu272/Wiringguy/M4side.jpg

Here are some ACOGs
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=538981

I couldnt find any good pics of an Trijicon Reflex II on a A2 duckbill mount. There are out there, I just didnt like the pics I found.

IPSICK
09-21-2011, 7:21 AM
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb190/marsh2001/Web%20photos/3XNorails.jpg (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_124/546647_.html)

Primary Arms 3x Compact Scope. Will mount directly to carry handle.

I do agree that this is not really a good setup. Just learn to live with and appreciate the irons. Otherwise get a flat top with optic and BUIS.

someR1
09-21-2011, 7:33 AM
I'm not a fan and think it looks retarded and think you should just leave it iron sights. But that's just me.

But I think la rue or aimpoint has a mount for the carry handle.

agreed ....KISS

Cali-Shooter
09-21-2011, 8:03 AM
This is my setup with a fixed carry handle A2 clone:

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5604/pict0001rd.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/pict0001rd.jpg/)

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6086/pict0004gl.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/441/pict0004gl.jpg/)

A couple "Call of Duty" style pics :)

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/6056/pict0007nr.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/pict0007nr.jpg/)

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1688/pict0008qi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/pict0008qi.jpg/)

Optic is an Aimpoint CompM4, the carryhandle mount came with the red dot, but I've seen them for sale most anywhere, like at OpticsPlanet.

I'm going to use a top mounted picatinny rail for my next carry handle AR build.

sonnyt650
09-21-2011, 8:07 AM
I have a carbine with a quality 3-9x on top of a carry handle so will talk about it from that point of view. No issues at all with parallax error at 100 yards being well under an inch for a scope that's set up to be parallax free at 150 yards. True that cheek weld doesn't exist: agreed that I couldn't lie prone and shoot that way for fifteen minutes straight. Working within the boundaries since it's not a precision rifle setup, it's like a rifle-mounted monocular helping you pick out targets that blend in with the background versus targets that are painted bright orange.

calibrator
09-21-2011, 8:09 AM
"Retarded" ??? :facepalm:

tiger222
09-21-2011, 8:43 AM
A scope the dovetails into the carry handle is best. If you can afford an ACOG, that is the best. If you are on a budget, the colt/hakko are a good value, I have two for sale if you are interested, one is for an a1, the other a2.

BigfootHunter
09-21-2011, 9:30 AM
Here's mine:

http://teambigfoothunter.com/145ltwt_1.jpg

Trijicon Reflex II on a Trijicon carry handle mount. Optics Planet has a smoking deal on open box demos of this sight on their samplelist.com site, but they don't come with a mount, I picked up one of the Trijicon carry handle mounts off of eGhey for around $100. I'm really happy with the setup. No issues with a high cheek weld and it co-witnesses perfectly.

desert_dick
09-21-2011, 9:33 AM
I have one of the old Colt 4x that mounts to the carry handle. Was inexpensive (at that time) and works well, has bdc for 5.56 built-in.
Not the best setup, but does what it's supposed to.
Chinese copies of the Colt are still cheap, though I can't vouch for quality.
If your budget is large, ACOG would be my choice...

-Rich

WW2Buff
09-21-2011, 9:55 AM
+1 for an ACOG. I've run mine in a carry handle before and while it is tough to get a consistent cheek weld it is still a platform I was very happy with. I would look into the TA33 series if I were you. Good size for a carry handle and better eye relief than the TA31.

Jyruiz
09-21-2011, 10:08 AM
I had a scope on my carry handle, later I put a PA M4 red dot, it worked fine, like others have siad, not much cheekweld but that never bothered me and the headset never got in the way. :) Guess you can always get some type of cheekmount on the stock if that is important to you. Here is a pic.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=36599&stc=1&d=1256961725

WW2Buff
09-21-2011, 10:11 AM
Also, the ability to still use irons is a huge plus.

Cali-Shooter
09-21-2011, 11:38 AM
There is no use having the carry handle if you can't the use iron sights on it.

gun toting monkeyboy
09-21-2011, 12:28 PM
Well, since everybody else is posting their pictures, here is one of mine. :)

http://i864.photobucket.com/albums/ab208/gun_toting_monkeyboy/IMG_1004.jpg

Sespe
09-21-2011, 6:26 PM
I ran these on my A2 upper with a couple scopes. Yes, it is tall and looks clunky, but it worked.

http://www.glausers.org/pics/calguns/AR/bonus.jpg

Still have them sitting around.

Cmagic
09-21-2011, 6:56 PM
Thanks for the input everyone. Lots of good information here.

From what I've seen here, using a red dot and the forward pushed rail design mounted on the carry handle is a viable option for CQ stuff. As we well as using a raised cheekwell adapter on the buttstock and a scope mounted on top of the handle works ok also for range (not pretty, but does the job).

Looks like I need to decide between the price on a new railed upper (A3/4 style) or adding on the extra stuff to make the current fixed carry handle (A2 style) worthwhile.

Thanks again :)

dieselpower
09-21-2011, 9:01 PM
Thanks for the input everyone. Lots of good information here.

From what I've seen here, using a red dot and the forward pushed rail design mounted on the carry handle is a viable option for CQ stuff. As we well as using a raised cheekwell adapter on the buttstock and a scope mounted on top of the handle works ok also for range (not pretty, but does the job).

Looks like I need to decide between the price on a new railed upper (A3/4 style) or adding on the extra stuff to make the current fixed carry handle (A2 style) worthwhile.

Thanks again :)

You also could ask if anyone close to you have a barrel wrench & Clam shell vise block and wants to help you remove and re-install a barrel. If you get someone to help you can...
1) Remove your barrel
2) Sell your upper for $50+shipping here or at AR15.com
3) Buy a A3 flat top upper from here or AR15.com for about $100+ shipping.
4) Mount your barrel on it.

So for $50 + shipping you have a Flat top and have a whole new world of optic possibilities open up.

Dark Mod
09-21-2011, 9:57 PM
No need for optics man, youve got the best iron sights in the business! learned to shoot at 500 yards with them and nothing else is the same to me