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epcii
09-20-2011, 12:32 PM
I've been pondering the idea of having a 10mm lately, and I've been eyeing a Glock 20/29. I've never shot a 10mm, but I know a full steel frame would help with managing recoil. I'd like to hear thoughts from those who own or have shot 10mm pistols. Thanks.

johnny_22
09-20-2011, 12:36 PM
I have a Kimber GT10 and the recoil was impressive with it. I have not shot the Glock 10 mm choices. I would assume it would be worse.

So, are you recoil sensitive, like me?

asgalindez
09-20-2011, 12:39 PM
I own a Kimber Eclipse, Colt Delta Elite, and Glock 29 (my first gun ever). Love 'em all. You'd be surprised how well the polymer frame of Glocks soak up the recoil of the 10mm...not harsh by any means.

DRAB_81
09-20-2011, 12:43 PM
What recoil?
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c297/rabara9/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_6404.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c297/rabara9/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4850.jpg

epcii
09-20-2011, 12:48 PM
I wouldn't exactly say I'm recoil sensitive, I'd just like to get ideas before I purchase, seeing as I've never shot a 10mm yet. I don't know anyone who owns one and I don't know of any places near me that rent one out.

Thanks for the handgun suggestions. And, I like your setup, meathead...clean and low-profile.

guns_and_labs
09-20-2011, 1:05 PM
I've been pondering the idea of having a 10mm lately, and I've been eyeing a Glock 20/29. I've never shot a 10mm, but I know a full steel frame would help with managing recoil. I'd like to hear thoughts from those who own or have shot 10mm pistols. Thanks.

I own or have owned just about every 10mm ever produced, so I do have some (biased) thoughts.

I actually find that the Glock frame absorbs some of the recoil, compared to equal weight steel frames. However, many steel framed 10mm's are heavier, and that is why they seem to have less recoil.

The Glock 29 has rude recoil (though not like a scandium .44 mag), so you might want to avoid that one. The Glock 20, though, especially with a 6" slide, is quite manageable. It's just not as cool as a 1911 10mm, and not as retro as a S&W.

For minimum recoil, you might try to find an S&W 610, or an S&W 1006. Beastly heavy, soaks up a lot.

Casual_Shooter
09-20-2011, 1:10 PM
I have a G29sf and shot it for the first time not long ago... I didn't think the recoil was that bad.

Where are you located? Maybe someone local to you has one that you can shoot.

guns_and_labs
09-20-2011, 1:23 PM
I have a G29sf and shot it for the first time not long ago... I didn't think the recoil was that bad.

.

I don't think it's bad either... but I'm not worried about recoil management (as the OP indicates).

I will say, it's a rare shooter that can keep doubletaps in the head zone as fast with a G29 as with a G20 or as with an all steel 1911. I tried, with a timer in hand, and I still find the G29 is slower back on target - and this is after several years of shooting the G29.

epcii
09-20-2011, 1:26 PM
I own or have owned just about every 10mm ever produced, so I do have some (biased) thoughts.

I actually find that the Glock frame absorbs some of the recoil, compared to equal weight steel frames. However, many steel framed 10mm's are heavier, and that is why they seem to have less recoil.

The Glock 29 has rude recoil (though not like a scandium .44 mag), so you might want to avoid that one. The Glock 20, though, especially with a 6" slide, is quite manageable. It's just not as cool as a 1911 10mm, and not as retro as a S&W.

For minimum recoil, you might try to find an S&W 610, or an S&W 1006. Beastly heavy, soaks up a lot.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm really liking the G20 with the long slide, although I'm a huge fan of steel S&W's. When the time comes, I'm sure I'll have a hard time deciding between the two. I also don't have a 1911 yet, so that's one reason to get one in 10mm. Two birds, one stone?

I have a G29sf and shot it for the first time not long ago... I didn't think the recoil was that bad.

Where are you located? Maybe someone local to you has one that you can shoot.

PM sent.

sammy
09-20-2011, 2:52 PM
I own a Smith & Wesson 1006 and a Glock 20. The Glock by far has less recoil than the 1006. My guess is the Glock has a much larger grip, more to hang on to. The Smith is not nearly as easy to shoot. My favorite load is a 180g. bullet over 9.5 grains of Longshot giving a velocity of 1300fps. Stout load but lots of fun. If you are in the Bay Area we can meet up and you are welcome to try both and see for yourself.

epcii
09-20-2011, 3:01 PM
I own a Smith & Wesson 1006 and a Glock 20. The Glock by far has less recoil than the 1006. My guess is the Glock has a much larger grip, more to hang on to. The Smith is not nearly as easy to shoot. My favorite load is a 180g. bullet over 9.5 grains of Longshot giving a velocity of 1300fps. Stout load but lots of fun. If you are in the Bay Area we can meet up and you are welcome to try both and see for yourself.

Thanks for the comparison. I really like the grip on S&W autos (I have a 3914 myself), but much less on the Glock. It seems I'll have to make some sacrifice when considering comfort vs. recoil management.

InGrAM
09-20-2011, 3:08 PM
Colt delta elite. The only way to go, but a glock would be very nice as well.

http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/593/deltaelite.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/809/deltaelite.jpg/)

SJgunguy24
09-20-2011, 3:09 PM
Look into EAA's Witness line, they have polymer and steel. The best part is if you don't like the 10mm, your able to change over to 9mm, 45,40, and 22 also with 38super in the steel guns.

starsnuffer
09-20-2011, 3:53 PM
Real 10mm you load yourself, or those long expensive .40 rounds you buy in a box from a store?

-W

esartori
09-20-2011, 4:33 PM
If u eventually want a 1911, I say u save up and get a nice one in .45 after u get a glock 20 in 10mm. My 2 cents

Oceanbob
09-20-2011, 4:33 PM
I think the GLOCKs recoil much less than say a Colt Delta Elite.

I've shot a couple thousand rounds thru a Colt Delta Elite in 10MM. So much that cracking of the slide happened. It kicks and is much like shooting a .357 Magnum. Lots of recoil.

My Glocks almost put me to sleep. A Glock 20 and Glock 29 have a soft upward roll that reminds me of a .45 1911 platform shooting range ammo.! :eek:

The grip on the GLOCKS are very good for the hand. I think this really helps. In addition the Poly frame acts as a shock absorber.

I would recommend a Glock 20SF (Short Frame) or Glock 29 SF.

Personally my favorite car carry weapon is a Glock 29.

http://i52.tinypic.com/1zn7jfq.jpg

epcii
09-20-2011, 4:55 PM
Interesting to hear how the Glocks absorb the shock so well in comparison to a heavier frame. Thanks for all of the responses. I look forward to owning my first Glock, as I'm an XD guy. :43:

GW
09-20-2011, 5:41 PM
I have a Glock 20 and a Kimber Custom Eclipse in 10MM
The Kimber is more accurate, but the Glock is accurate enough and IMHO has less perceived recoil.

2nd Shot
09-20-2011, 6:42 PM
Some early Delta Elites and (possibly others) initially had problems with frame cracking. I think by now the current generation 1911's, witnesses, S&W's etc have the bugs worked out and are solid.

I own a Glock 29SF, and it's probably my favorite all around pistol. I think it's important to mention that when it was box stock, the recoil when firing even moderate loads stung, and the gun wanted to violently jump up out of my hand on every shot, making repeat shots difficult at best. The fix turned out to be installing a 21lb Wolff spring and steel guide rod set - the original spring was reliable, but was unable to slow the slide down enough by the time it slammed to a stop against the frame, beating the gun and making it hard to control. With the new spring, recoil feels like a stiff .45 - it has thump, but is very smooth, and the gun no longer tries to jerk itself out of my hand. Night and day.

Speaking of, I think that controlling slide velocity is the key with 10mm handguns, and probably the reason why even steel frames will crack if battered hard enough. In this regard, and considering the number of stock sprung G29's still blasting away, I believe the flex of the polymer frame not only softens felt recoil, but may live longer under severe conditions including outright frame battering. But that's just one mans opinion.

epcii
09-20-2011, 6:55 PM
Very thoughtful input, 2nd Shot. I think you may be right in regard to the polymer flex leading to softening recoil. I'm leaning toward a G20SF in DE or OD. The majority of my firearms are black and I think I need to add some diversity. ;)

Stkx66
09-20-2011, 8:05 PM
I have a Glock 20 and a Kimber Custom Eclipse in 10MM
The Kimber is more accurate, but the Glock is accurate enough and IMHO has less perceived recoil.

+1

I have the G 20 and Kimber 10mm as well. I really like the 10mm round. Speaking for myself I take the G 20 to the forest ( not going to worry about scratching up my workhorse ) and the Kimber to the range.
I like both pistols for different reasons and wouldn't get rid of either one.

shooting4life
09-20-2011, 8:18 PM
Steel all the way, S&W 610 no dash that has been converted to 10mm magnum
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu30/shooting4life/IMG_2952.jpg

BCool
09-20-2011, 8:18 PM
Love my 29, my wife shoots it fine and she doesn't shoot much at all and is a total wimp!

Ubermcoupe
09-20-2011, 8:33 PM
I am a fan of the delta elite, one of these days I WILL find one... :)

Oceanbob
09-20-2011, 8:53 PM
I am a fan of the delta elite, one of these days I WILL find one... :)

Yes...a friend of mine has one (10MM) and won't take less then $1400 for it.

Personallly I don't think it is worth that kind of money.

I will stick to my GLOCK platforms and reloading adventures. :)

Be well....Bob

Oceanbob
09-20-2011, 8:57 PM
Very thoughtful input, 2nd Shot. I think you may be right in regard to the polymer flex leading to softening recoil. I'm leaning toward a G20SF in DE or OD. The majority of my firearms are black and I think I need to add some diversity. ;)

Good man..!!

I collect OD Glocks these days and while I have several BLACK glocks, I prefer the OD frames.

Here is one of my 3 Glock 20s.

LOVE THIS WEAPON.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2niwc3m.jpg

a1c
09-20-2011, 9:27 PM
I take my Kimber Eclipse hunting.

Yeah, it's a pretty gun. But it's got to get dirty once in a while.

7anthony7
09-20-2011, 9:39 PM
I like my 1911 10mm. Probably my most accurate gun. I have never been a glock fan, but have been to the armorer school for it. Made well, few parts, a trained monkey could work on them. Solid guns. I just prefer the 1911 and I shoot better with it personally. I would say go shoot with someone with both before you buy. If you are near the east bay I can let you give my smith 610 and my Wilson 1911 a try. Go with what works for you and you can decide on steel vs polymer.

dholla
09-20-2011, 10:37 PM
Will you stop showing off your 610 already!!! geeze. :) What a beautiful gun!

Synergy
09-21-2011, 1:56 AM
Through a single shot exemption - I would pick this up.
1911 longslide with rail in 10mm :43:
$1495.00
http://www.fusionfirearms.com/
http://www.fusionfirearms.com/images/Hunter%2080-1.jpg

451040
09-21-2011, 3:28 AM
Glock 20. If/when the magazine capacity limitation goes away, you'll have a 15, up to 20, round 10mm pistol.




It's just not as cool as a 1911 10mm

:laugh:

hcbr
09-21-2011, 3:42 AM
epcii , i have shot several types of 10mm , including the 191 styles (metal frames) and i own two g20's , and obviously imho if you asked , my bias leans toward the glock g20's, but if you're in or near the LA area, PM me, and you can have a gander at mine and we can meet up at a range. If not, hopefully someone can hopefully be kind enough to let you shoot theirs that is close to you!

Otherwise, i'd try all of them out before you pull the trigger on one... and yes, the g20's recoil is very manageable. Thus why i bought 2 of em :D

epcii
09-21-2011, 3:59 AM
Glock 20. If/when the magazine capacity limitation goes away, you'll have a 15, up to 20, round 10mm pistol.

Good point you have there. Thanks for the response.

cineski
09-21-2011, 5:41 AM
My G20 is very accurate and quick to get back on target. 200 grains is my favorite weight to shoot as the recoil is less snappy and more of a quick push. Kinda like 45acp with more of a brisker push. Put an ISMI 22 pound steel captured recoil spring in your G20 when you get it. The stock spring is not strong enough for the really stout loads and your frame will take a beating.

g_conway
09-21-2011, 8:57 AM
The polymer vs steel issue is important, but so is direction of recoil.
Most of the polymers are redirecting a large part of the recoil in the horizontal plane, which will result in a major reduction of felt "coventional" recoil. If barrel to grip planes were the same, steel would win every time. I had the 1006 and have fired glock 10 polymers and smith 40 cal polymers. I would go for the polymer over the 1006 for recoil; BUT the 1006 will handle ANY power load you can fit in the gun with NO ISSUES. I wouldn't even try that with a polymer.

epcii
09-21-2011, 9:04 AM
My G20 is very accurate and quick to get back on target. 200 grains is my favorite weight to shoot as the recoil is less snappy and more of a quick push. Kinda like 45acp with more of a brisker push. Put an ISMI 22 pound steel captured recoil spring in your G20 when you get it. The stock spring is not strong enough for the really stout loads and your frame will take a beating.

Thanks for the tip. I'll keep that in mind for the future.

DRAB_81
09-21-2011, 9:07 AM
The polymer vs steel issue is important, but so is direction of recoil.
Most of the polymers are redirecting a large part of the recoil in the horizontal plane, which will result in a major reduction of felt "coventional" recoil. If barrel to grip planes were the same, steel would win every time. I had the 1006 and have fired glock 10 polymers and smith 40 cal polymers. I would go for the polymer over the 1006 for recoil; BUT the 1006 will handle ANY power load you can fit in the gun with NO ISSUES. I wouldn't even try that with a polymer.

Along with many others, I have loaded and fired some pretty rediculous handloads from my G20SF (G20LS). I have had ZERO issues, and the polymer frame is doing just fine. I have fired 200gr WFNGC's @ over 1400fps, 180gr XTP's over 1400fps, and 150gr Noslers over 1500fps. I'd say those were pretty stout loads. It all depends on if you like Glocks. The G20SF single handedly converted me to the Dark Side, but Glocks aren't for everyone.

By the way, you can build a G20LS like mine & keep the stock upper for less than you'd pay for a 10mm 1911.

epcii
09-21-2011, 9:14 AM
Along with many others, I have loaded and fired some pretty rediculous handloads from my G20SF (G20LS). I have had ZERO issues, and the polymer frame is doing just fine. I have fired 200gr WFNGC's @ over 1400fps, 180gr XTP's over 1400fps, and 150gr Noslers over 1500fps. I'd say those were pretty stout loads. It all depends on if you like Glocks. The G20SF single handedly converted me to the Dark Side, but Glocks aren't for everyone.

By the way, you can build a G20LS like mine & keep the stock upper for less than you'd pay for a 10mm 1911.

Are those loads with the OEM recoil spring, or aftermarket? Yeah, that LS looks so badass and the fact that I could get the G20 with an additional upper for less than a 1911 in 10mm makes it even more appealing.

DRAB_81
09-21-2011, 9:18 AM
Are those loads with the OEM recoil spring, or aftermarket? Yeah, that LS looks so badass and the fact that I could get the G20 with an additional upper for less than a 1911 in 10mm makes it even more appealing.

I initially used a 24# Wolff setup, but now I'm running a LWD guide rod w/22# ISMI spring. The stock spring is 17#, and doesn't cut it for these kinds of handloads.

Kelvrick
09-21-2011, 11:41 AM
These 10mm threads get me antsy for glock to release the gen4 g20.

epcii
09-21-2011, 1:07 PM
These 10mm threads get me antsy for glock to release the gen4 g20.

Any idea when they should be released? I may wait for one of these instead of getting a current G20.

Bhobbs
09-21-2011, 1:42 PM
I think I'm gonna pick up a Glock 20. I would prefer a XD in 10mm but they don't make one and no one sells conversions that I know of.

Maddog5150
09-21-2011, 4:42 PM
What recoil?
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c297/rabara9/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_6404.jpg

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c297/rabara9/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_4850.jpg

Where did you get that slide? That looks awesome!

DRAB_81
09-21-2011, 6:10 PM
Where did you get that slide? That looks awesome!

Thanks man, I love this thing. It's a Lone Wolf G20LS slide with a CCR Cera-Hide finish. It shoots as good as it looks too.

epcii
09-21-2011, 6:10 PM
I think I'm gonna pick up a Glock 20. I would prefer a XD in 10mm but they don't make one and no one sells conversions that I know of.

That's something I'd also like to see. I'd still get the G20 as well, though.

Where did you get that slide? That looks awesome!

I know, I'm diggin it. I may go with the same setup. I really like how it's simple and clean. :D

sevans
09-21-2011, 7:08 PM
You just need the right 10mm to control recoil. All of these are kittens:

http://www.infiniteweb.com/10mm/IMG_0489.JPG

I'd probably vote for a G20 as a first 10mm but the 610's are great guns. The 610 is also discontinued again so you might want to get one while you can. The Javelina is definitely the softest recoiling gun of the bunch. The STI is probably most accurate and the most fun to shoot.

epcii
09-21-2011, 7:14 PM
^ :eek:

DRAB_81
09-21-2011, 7:33 PM
You just need the right 10mm to control recoil. All of these are kittens:

http://www.infiniteweb.com/10mm/IMG_0489.JPG

I'd probably vote for a G20 as a first 10mm but the 610's are great guns. The 610 is also discontinued again so you might want to get one while you can. The Javelina is definitely the softest recoiling gun of the bunch. The STI is probably most accurate and the most fun to shoot.

THAT IS THE MOST IMPRESSIVE COLLECTION OF 10MM HANDGUNS I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!

Bhobbs
09-21-2011, 9:03 PM
That's something I'd also like to see. I'd still get the G20 as well, though.


I emailed the Springfield Armory sales department asking about the possibility of a XD10 but they never bothered to reply.

Cali-Shooter
09-21-2011, 9:45 PM
Whatever your wallet can afford, Glock 20's are popular and highly in demand for a reason.

epcii
09-21-2011, 9:49 PM
Whatever your wallet can afford, Glock 20's are popular and highly in demand for a reason.

Yeah, now I'm deciding on whether to wait for the Gen4 or not.

Cali-Shooter
09-21-2011, 9:55 PM
If it were me, I'd jump on a decent gen 3 given the chance. Might have to wait longer than desirable to go for a gen 4. From what I hear, Glocks are at their finest in 9mm and 10mm, I'd get a G20 myself, but I'm sort of stuck shooting "poor man's 10mm," aka .40 S&W

Like many posters and 10mm enthusiasts boost, if you ever go out in the mountain forests, and happen to face off with a grizzly, a 10mm will do you loads better than a .45 ACP.
Also, ammo prices for 10mm and .45 ACP tend to be evenly matched if you look hard enough, those deals are out there.

epcii
09-21-2011, 10:27 PM
If it were me, I'd jump on a decent gen 3 given the chance. Might have to wait longer than desirable to go for a gen 4. From what I hear, Glocks are at their finest in 9mm and 10mm, I'd get a G20 myself, but I'm sort of stuck shooting "poor man's 10mm," aka .40 S&W

Like many posters and 10mm enthusiasts boost, if you ever go out in the mountain forests, and happen to face off with a grizzly, a 10mm will do you loads better than a .45 ACP.
Also, ammo prices for 10mm and .45 ACP tend to be evenly matched if you look hard enough, those deals are out there.

Thanks for the info. If it does take too long for a Gen4, then I will probably settle for Gen3. I'll give it a few months. Come Jan/Feb, it will be decided.

OC-Indian
09-21-2011, 10:40 PM
Best 10mm I eve shot was a 1911 by GunCrafters

truep
09-22-2011, 8:46 AM
There's a Colt (I think double eagle?) 10mm at Turner's in Torrance right now for sale, but they're asking $900 for it.

Bhobbs
09-22-2011, 10:48 AM
Thanks for the info. If it does take too long for a Gen4, then I will probably settle for Gen3. I'll give it a few months. Come Jan/Feb, it will be decided.

Aren't Gen 4 Glocks off roster?

epcii
09-22-2011, 12:36 PM
Yes, but there's always Single-Shot Exemption or PPT. Both are perfectly legal.

Maddog5150
09-22-2011, 1:10 PM
I always wondered in the past why HK never made a USP10. The frame is obviously strong enough to handle it. Hecks, its one of the few off the shelf guns that can handle 45 super so I dont know why they never made a ten mil.

epcii
09-22-2011, 1:12 PM
I always wondered in the past why HK never made a USP10. The frame is obviously strong enough to handle it. Hecks, its one of the few off the shelf guns that can handle 45 super so I dont know why they never made a ten mil.

Maybe they didn't feel there was much demand, leading them to think it wasn't feasible enough to even produce.

Maddog5150
09-22-2011, 1:14 PM
Maybe they didn't feel there was much demand, leading them to think it wasn't feasible enough to even produce.

True but they could of produced a smaller lott than other hk's for the American market.

Bhobbs
09-22-2011, 1:23 PM
Yes, but there's always Single-Shot Exemption or PPT. Both are perfectly legal.

Yeah I know of those options but I would rather get the Gen 3 unless the Gen4 was improved enough to make a big difference.

Kelvrick
09-22-2011, 5:40 PM
I always wondered in the past why HK never made a USP10. The frame is obviously strong enough to handle it. Hecks, its one of the few off the shelf guns that can handle 45 super so I dont know why they never made a ten mil.

An open letter to the gun community from HK’s marketing department: In a world of compromises, some people put the bullets in the magazine backwards…But it doesn’t matter, because our gun is on the cover of the Rainbow Six video games. Look how cool that SEAL coming out of the water looks… If you buy a $2,000 SOCOM, you will be that cool of an operator too.

And chicks will dig you.

At HK, we stuck a piston on an AR15, just like a bunch of other companies have done, dating back to about 1969. However ours is better, because we refuse to sell it to civilians. Because you suck, and we hate you.

Our XM8 is the greatest rifle ever developed. It may melt, and it doesn’t fit any accessories known to man, but that is your fault. If you were a real operator, you would love it. Once again, look at Rainbow Six, that G36 sure is cool isn’t it? Yeah, you know you want one.And by the way, check out our new HK45. We decided that humans don’t need to release the magazine with their thumbs. If you were a really manly teutonic operator, you would be able to reach the controls. Plus we’ve fired 100,000,000 rounds through one with zero malfunctions, and that was while it was buried in a lake of molten lava, on the moon. If you don’t believe us, it is because you aren’t a real operator.

By the way, our cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns like the G3 and MP5 are the bestest things ever, and totally worth asinine scalpers prices, but note that cheap, mass-produced, stamped sheet metal guns from other countries are commie garbage. Not that it matters, because you’re civilians, so we won’t sell them to you anyway. Because you suck, and we hate you, but we know you’ll be back. We can beat you down like a trailer park wife, but you’ll come back, you always do.

Buy our stuff.
Sincerely
HK Marketing DepartmentHK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

451040
09-22-2011, 6:33 PM
if you ever go out in the mountain forests, and happen to face off with a grizzly, a 10mm will do you loads better than a .45 ACP.

That's just a bit of a stretch. Neither cartridge should give you any comfort against a charging griz.

003
09-22-2011, 6:45 PM
It took me quite a while to buy my first Glock, let alone become a real convert, but such is the case. I own and/or have shot many of the pistols made by the world’s major manufactures, from HK, to S&W to Sig, Browning, etc. I have to admit that my Glock 20SF is one of my all time favorites. I have shot the standard 20 and much prefer the 20SF. While I do have very large hands (glove size is XL), the SF fits my hand better and feels very similar to my 17 and 34. I gave up reloading a few years back, so all of my shooting is now with factory ammunition. My 20sf does just fine with all of the Buffalo Bore loads, as well as those from all of the other manufactures that I have tried. A full power 10mm may not be for everyone, but the Glock 20SF has found a good home with me.

epcii
09-22-2011, 6:48 PM
That's just a bit of a stretch. Neither cartridge should give you any comfort against a charging griz.

A .44 magnum will.

guns_and_labs
09-22-2011, 8:00 PM
A .44 magnum will.

I've seen a charging grizzly (from a distance). Personally, I would only be comfortable if I had already called in an airstrike, forget the handgun. Maybe a Ma Deuce.

Cali-Shooter
09-22-2011, 9:52 PM
TBH, it's much better to avoid or prevent a situation in which you are faced with a charging bear in the first place. But if you doing something that gives the odds of such happening to you, such as camping in Yosemite or something, bring a .44 magum with you. Also, that would be one situation a Desert Eagle in .44 or .50 AE would actually be handy and practical to have, lol!