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californa
09-20-2011, 10:28 AM
So with all the crazy weather and unstable economy and surge in violent crimes in my area my girlfriend and I thought it would be a good idea to get a bug out vehicle.We both have small cars. I have been considering buying a used small SUV and keeping it loaded with water,food and medical supplies. I also want to possibly keep it small inexpensive handgun (.22 or .32) hidden in it (under the spare tire). Would this be a good idea? I of course would have the gun and mags in a locked case with ammo store separately. I would not drive the vehicle much. I would want to keep the gun in the vehicle at all times. Does this sound like a good idea or am I a nut?:facepalm: Any one else doing the same?

Gary13
09-20-2011, 10:35 AM
Initial thought is, I would go with a hard topped vehicle, and if you want to stick with .22, a better quality one like a Buckmark or Ruger. Also consider a revolver.

djleisure
09-20-2011, 10:39 AM
Initial thought is, I would go with a hard topped vehicle, and if you want to stick with .22, a better quality one like a Buckmark or Ruger. Also consider a revolver.

Yeah, if you're going to leave a gun in your vehicle at all times (which is not a big deal, I do) then you really should have a hard top on it. Unless you are just storing it in a garage until the "end of days." Also, to clear this up for the 1000th time :D you do NOT need to keep ammo stored separately from the gun. As long as the magazine is NOT in the gun, it can be fully loaded and taped to the side of it, or more wisely, just set next to it in a "ready to load" fashion. Keeping the gun and mags in an inconspicuous locked box that is also secured to the vehicle is a good idea as well.

Uriah02
09-20-2011, 10:41 AM
Samurais are awesome, I've seen and been off roading in them in places a pimped out wrangler couldn't go. Depending on where you plan to bug out is what would matter for your vehicle/weapon of choice. With a Samurai you should be going into the woods, that being the case, you'd probably be better off with a rifle. If you are already at the point which you want to have a dedicated bug out vehicle with supplies, I have the feeling you haven't read up too much on bugging out.

epcii
09-20-2011, 10:54 AM
Your girlfriend agreed to this? She's a keeper.

californa
09-20-2011, 11:01 AM
Samurais are awesome, I've seen and been off roading in them in places a pimped out wrangler couldn't go. Depending on where you plan to bug out is what would matter for your vehicle/weapon of choice. With a Samurai you should be going into the woods, that being the case, you'd probably be better off with a rifle. If you are already at the point which you want to have a dedicated bug out vehicle with supplies, I have the feeling you haven't read up too much on bugging out.

Of course I would I would try and bring my ARs but in the event that I would not able to get them I would still have a gun. I agree that a rifle would be the best in this case. I was thinking a suzuki samurai but not dead set. Almost any almost any SUV would be better that a small car.

redking
09-20-2011, 11:40 AM
I am planning on having a "safe room" or basement with a years worth of supplies, which includes ammunition and a backup firearm

I am more of a bunker down kind of guy than run away :P

But yes if you are not planning on driving the vehicle daily I say just store it on your property and the law does not matter at that point when it comes to concealed loaded fire arms.

Lead Waster
09-20-2011, 11:43 AM
My bug out vehicle would probably be a 737 to the city my parents live in.

Where do you plan to bug out to? Do you have a bug out place (like a cottage or something). I'm assuming you aren't planning to just drive around until you're out of gas, or overwhelmed by zombies/rioters.

If anything bad happens, I plan to Bug In. Why would I leave my house to rioters/zombies? It has all my food, ammo and other stuff in it. If bugging out means ... going into the woods and camping in a tent, why wouldn't I just stay home?

If the problem is an earthquake, I'd still rather pitch a tent in the backyard where the place is familiar to my kids, and where my food and water is.

If the problem is zombies, then all I have to do is stop watching the zombie DVD or stop playing "Left 4 Dead". If the problem is rioters, I'd rather defend my house with a shotgun , rifle, pistol, baseball bat, then try to defend my bug out vehicle.

If the problem is a tsunami/flood or other forced bug out, then yeah, a vehicle is better unless you actually can make it to the airport/open road to go to a safe place.

I remember when I was about 10, we had a forced evacuation, it was in fact, the largest evacuation in North America until Katrina hit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Mississauga_train_derailment

The train derailed 2 miles from my parents house, I could see the fireball from the balcony. It was carrying chlorine gas ... !!

My parents bugged us out to their friends place in a nearby city where we bugged in for a couple of weeks.

Unlike Katrina though, there were no casualties and since it was in Canada, no looting and firearms insanity like New Orleans. Cops basically woke up the neighbourhood ans said "Please leave" and so we did.


But I digress. A .22 would make a fine bug out pistol. You should probably store a 10/22 or something as well. Truly bugging out would require hunting for food. The .22 pistol would make a good anti-thug deterrent.

I think a shotgun (maybe not IN the vehicle, but close at hand and ready to pack) would be good too. Keep a few boxes of shells int he vehicle. I suggest this because a shotgun is what really what kept the settlers of the "Old West" alive. Good protection, good hunting tool.

A .22 (pistol and rifle) and shotgun is all you would need.

Ricky-Ray
09-20-2011, 11:45 AM
I'm thinking at minimum go with at least a 9mm. A little harder hitting and rounds would be easier to find.

Lead Waster
09-20-2011, 11:46 AM
Of course I would I would try and bring my ARs but in the event that I would not able to get them I would still have a gun. I agree that a rifle would be the best in this case. I was thinking a suzuki samurai but not dead set. Almost any almost any SUV would be better that a small car.

Suzuki Samurai is even smaller than a jeep, isn't it?

I would suggest a Bronco II, if you can find one. If off-road capability is not as important, a full sized van is better. More space for supplies and a secure place to sleep in.

1911RONIN
09-20-2011, 11:48 AM
This is great. I love how Zombies are mentioned not less than 10 posts into any survival discussion. Not so 5 years ago.

Jeep Cherokee XJ or Tacoma 4x4. Reliable polymer 9mm. 1000 rounds. done.

I also have a mosin with 440 rounds...just arrived today! Less than $200!

FashionBiff
09-20-2011, 12:01 PM
Cherokee would be a great choice, also consider a lock box bolted to the vehicle. If you have to Bug out then dont waste time...go. We have had some bad fires in the last decade down south and you cant always stay, hell we just had a black out that took out the county which became a bug in situation.
I would look at a Glock 19 or 17 myself and have a ruger 10/22 for getting some rabbit if your bow skills are as bad as mine. MREs get old quick.

Lead Waster
09-20-2011, 12:10 PM
Well, "Zombies" is a nice placeholder because you don't feel guilty about saying that you would shoot someone. It's the threat of a mass of humans. (Invading army, rioters, hungry neighbors, looters, etc, etc). Just easier to say "Zombies" so you don't sound like you're willing to mow down 100's of people.

californa
09-20-2011, 12:14 PM
Wow thanks guys I'm getting some really good responses. Yeah I have a small place that I can go to for a few weeks (friends place). Staying home would be the best but If a tornado, fire or earthquake hits I cant really do much about that. Plus theirs always a little thing called a nuclear attack that might be slightly inconvenient . I would ideally like to have a larger caliber but the small size if a mouse gun would make it easier for storage. Plus most mouse gun are inexpensive (Phoenix arms .22). BTW epcii's my gf is on board only because she thinks its gonna be "fun" like camping. I dont think she realizes its gonna be very serious. Its gonna be ugly. I'm just glad there is some intelligent like minded calgunners here on this site.

desertjosh
09-20-2011, 12:17 PM
Get a samurai! You wont regret it. I sure don't, they are awesome when set up right.

thenodnarb
09-20-2011, 12:50 PM
hide it AND lock it. Maybe locked in a pistol case that is tucked into the bottom of the back seat or something. If the car is ever stolen, or broken into, you have a better chance of the gun not being found by a criminal.
Also, you may consider tethering the gun to a solid object in the car with a cable through the action. That way the bad guy has to have bolt cutters to get the thing out.

aermotor
09-20-2011, 1:06 PM
Gun in the vehicle at all times is a great idea.

Jimmy310
09-20-2011, 1:13 PM
Dont laugh, my buddy has a 1997 toyota rav4 with like 300,000 miles on the original motor and transmission (auto). You can modify the suspension and the 2.0 motor is probobly the same on the camry's which is uber reliable, decent on gas, and isnt a slouch either.

http://i00.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/110641452/Toyota_RAV4_J_V_1995_Used_car.jpg

jermzzzzzzz
09-20-2011, 1:18 PM
I'd suggest something with more power like a 9mm or .40S&W in a handgun thats easy to use and inexpensive like a Sig Pro, Glock 17/19 or an XD model.

cbsdd00
09-20-2011, 1:19 PM
Sammys are awesome. I had one years ago. Wish I never sold it. They can go anywhere. Small enough to fit on tiny trails. They have no power of course. 1.3 litre engine was in mine. You can put a vw 1.8 diesel engine in them. They are kinda hard to find for real cheap anymore cuz so many people have them for off roading now. If you get one seriously think about putting a vw engine in it. Check out Petroworks down in Fallbrook. Rock-road.com has tons of stuff for them too.

bruss01
09-20-2011, 1:23 PM
I'm6 going6 to6 suggest6 a6 Yugo6 M576 and6 a6 `bri4ck6 of6 7.627x25.6 6 4cheap,6 relia`ble6 and6 no6 `biggie6 if6 it6 gets6 stolen.

Pardon6 my6 typos,6 water6 in6 ke`board6 `blu`b6 `blu`b6 `blu`b..

ParanoidCivilian
09-20-2011, 1:27 PM
If you're serious about getting away from the s**t storm, you will want a 26 speed rock hopper, his and hers of course. Take the rock hopper into the back country or side streets with a hydration pack, Glock pistol with three hi-caps and you'll avoid most of the zombies.

himurax13
09-20-2011, 1:41 PM
Well, "Zombies" is a nice placeholder because you don't feel guilty about saying that you would shoot someone. It's the threat of a mass of humans. (Invading army, rioters, hungry neighbors, looters, etc, etc). Just easier to say "Zombies" so you don't sound like you're willing to mow down 100's of people.

Truer words have never been spoken :eek: ;).

Jason P
09-20-2011, 2:07 PM
I did the Silverado 3500 with a couple of thousand rounds of .22, a marlin 795 with a few 10 rounders, and a Ruger P95 with 500 rounds. I have no intention of allowing something or someone to block my path if the SHTF on the level where it is safer to evac than stay home. I will be a hillbilly bowling ball who stops for nothing but gas:)

Quickdraw Mcgraw
09-20-2011, 2:24 PM
whaddabout a sube wagon...small, awd and decent milage...an a p95&marlin 795.

starsnuffer
09-20-2011, 2:51 PM
Due to traffic and everyone else "bugging out", wheeled vehicles are impractical for this purpose.

You need either a flying vehicle with VTOL capability, or a large tracked vehicle capable of driving over the wheeled vehicles stuck in traffic.

In addition, due to fuel shortage issues, the vehicle should also have an electrical power plant rather then an internal combustion power plant, as there is a wider array of fuel and power sources capable of providing electrical energy.

Thus, to summarize, you need either a solar powered jet pack or a wind up tank.

Let us know what you choose.

-W

ZX-10R
09-20-2011, 6:40 PM
AK and 1911.

MaxxZer0
09-20-2011, 7:16 PM
I was thinking of getting one of these for my Jeep. It may work for you as well.

http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

OrovilleTim
09-20-2011, 7:16 PM
Due to traffic and everyone else "bugging out", wheeled vehicles are impractical for this purpose.

C'mon, why go ruining (potentially expensive) fantasy with logic? :43:

VegasND
09-20-2011, 7:56 PM
I don't get the fascination. If you're going to carry it in your Jeep you've got enough room for a real rifle. Why would you limit yourself to this when you can mount a case with room for a rimfire or centerfire, some ammo and magazines.

But, yeah. When the balloon goes up, nobody is going anywhere using a vehicle.
I was thinking of getting one of these for my Jeep. It may work for you as well.

http://www.henryrepeating.com/rifle-survival-ar7.cfm

JeremyS
09-20-2011, 8:03 PM
AR-7 :)

Pops together in a jif, and all the parts store in the buttstock

http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/ar7-22rifle-003.jpg

Oceanbob
09-20-2011, 8:11 PM
I had a Samurai...POS. They were recalled and crushed by Suzuki for good reasons.

Get something more substantial. Including a proper caliber for a fire fight.

Be well, Bob

ZombieTactics
09-20-2011, 8:14 PM
Well, "Zombies" is a nice placeholder because you don't feel guilty about saying that you would shoot someone. It's the threat of a mass of humans. (Invading army, rioters, hungry neighbors, looters, etc, etc). Just easier to say "Zombies" so you don't sound like you're willing to mow down 100's of people.
Nice to know somebody gets it, lol.

socalocalypse
09-20-2011, 8:15 PM
Thats pretty funny. I went to pick up my phoenix arms .22 today for use as-what else-a trunk gun. More for a get home or just in case scenario for me.

For what I want its fine and if its stolen no big loss.

I just don't want a gun in there I can't afford to lose.

And a high point isn't concealable enough for me.

Fwiw I plan to bug in cuz I believe roads will be jammed instantly.

Sent from my SCH-R910 using Tapatalk

Squidward
09-20-2011, 9:07 PM
Sac. has lots of people and cars. Gridlock will be inevitable. How about a motorcycle as a bug out vehicle? Slightly less capacity for your stuff but you stand a better chance of getting out. Your weapon can go in a lockable side bag.

RollingCode3
09-20-2011, 9:12 PM
So with all the crazy weather and unstable economy and surge in violent crimes in my area my girlfriend and I thought it would be a good idea to get a bug out vehicle.We both have small cars. I have been considering buying a used small SUV and keeping it loaded with water,food and medical supplies. I also want to possibly keep it small inexpensive handgun (.22 or .32) hidden in it (under the spare tire). Would this be a good idea? I of course would have the gun and mags in a locked case with ammo store separately. I would not drive the vehicle much. I would want to keep the gun in the vehicle at all times. Does this sound like a good idea or am I a nut?:facepalm: Any one else doing the same?

IMHO, Leaving a gun in a car permanently is extremely irresponsible. Carry it on you or leave it at home in a safe.

GuillermoAntonio
09-20-2011, 9:41 PM
Sac. has lots of people and cars. Gridlock will be inevitable. How about a motorcycle as a bug out vehicle? Slightly less capacity for your stuff but you stand a better chance of getting out. Your weapon can go in a lockable side bag.

thats exactly what I think, if it comes to rushing out of town, a bike is probably the only way out, problem for me is, I've never rode in one....

socalocalypse
09-24-2011, 11:46 PM
IMHO, Leaving a gun in a car permanently is extremely irresponsible. Carry it on you or leave it at home in a safe.

Glad you don't make the laws.

After shooting the phoenix arms it works great. I'm going to disable as much of that goofy safety crap as I can. The downside is the gun is super heavy, but that effectively eliminates recoil.

Sent from my SCH-R910 using Tapatalk

bsg
09-25-2011, 6:56 AM
IMHO, Leaving a gun in a car permanently is extremely irresponsible.


i agree.

plumbum
09-25-2011, 8:50 AM
I keep a bolt action .22 in my spare car, broken down and locked to the vehicle in a hidden place. The car is kept covered and secure as well. I feel that an old bolt action wouldn't offer as much motivation to potential thieves as a centerfire handgun (better chance of passing up a Crickett than a Glock), savvy?

A small handgun does allow for better hiding places, and works well enough for a 'it's-better-than-nothing' situation.

ILVSMOG
09-25-2011, 8:53 AM
I keep a simple 16" A2 in my farm truck all the time, usually with a couple hundred rounds of ammo. There's always usually a 1911 hanging around somewhere too. ;)

For a bug-out-vehicle, something that's extremely durable and capable of running on nearly any combustable fuel is nice. I personally have a M1008 CUCV that I keep as a weekend hunting rig, dirtbike hauler, dump-run vehicle and SHTF mini-monster-truck. They don't make much power, but the driveline is WAY overkill and they'll run on most concoctions of used motor oil, ATF, gas, diesel, etc. You need to understand them and know how to work on them, but mine has been EXTREMELY reliable (I got it with only 33k miles on the clock) and with a mild lift, 37" H1 takeoffs and beadlocks and a winch, if she won't get me where I want to go, I need to stay home!

Richard Erichsen
09-25-2011, 9:10 AM
So with all the crazy weather and unstable economy and surge in violent crimes in my area my girlfriend and I thought it would be a good idea to get a bug out vehicle.We both have small cars. I have been considering buying a used small SUV and keeping it loaded with water,food and medical supplies. I also want to possibly keep it small inexpensive handgun (.22 or .32) hidden in it (under the spare tire). Would this be a good idea? I of course would have the gun and mags in a locked case with ammo store separately. I would not drive the vehicle much. I would want to keep the gun in the vehicle at all times. Does this sound like a good idea or am I a nut?:facepalm: Any one else doing the same?

Weather isn't likely to be as much of a problem around here as wild fires and earthquakes, though isolated flash flooding is always a problem in the desert and does a great job of removing escape routes when they occur. The number 1 rule is "don't panic" - panic will cause you to make impulsive decisions you may regret later. Civil unrest is a bigger unknown, it could happen after a natural disaster, or as the result of a man made disaster. Shortages of basic food and water, disruptions in basic utilities for an extended period of time can lead directly to desperate acts by desperate people and opportunists alike.

You will need a plan for where you are going or the SUV you mentioned won't do you any good if you find yourself stuck in traffic or on an unpassable road or trail. Small SUVs are easier to park and hide away, but you could be limited in how much food and water you can reasonably carry. How much is enough? Do you have enough for a friend or relative you pick up along the way? Do you have enough to barter or part with if you find yourself in a predicament where it could be a question of immediate threat to life and limb?

How quickly could you load the remainder of your supplies prior to departure? What are the conditions under which you SHOULD leave and when are you better off staying in your home? Your home will almost certainly hold more supplies than anything you'll be able to make portable. If your home is too damaged or you can smell smoke, that's a reasonable case for salvaging what you can and following your bug out plan.

Diesels vehicles are probably a better choice overall than a small gasoline powered SUV if you are forced to relocate. Indirect Injection (IDI) diesels are of an olde less fussy type and vehicles so fitted are particularly well suited to digesting oils and oil mixtures that more modern computer controlled direct injection diesels would not be able to run on. For this reason mechanical injection systems available in the early 80s and up until the mid to late 90s are probably the best choice and will be only somewhat higher cost than a used gasoline vehicle of comparable size and cargo capacity.

You should also consider how systems and societies tend to fail, using what you can research about recent events around the world. Shortages after a disaster are the first stage, equally applicable to a financial disaster where the US economy itself fails. In a depression, delivery of all goods will be disrupted at least some of the time with sporadic delivery of the basics (say, you can only buy certain goods on certain days or weeks, if at all). Non-perishable foods, clean properly treated water, fuel, hygiene and medical supplies will be worth their weight in gold if things get really bad and stay that way for many weeks or even months at a time. You might want to have a stockpile of concentrated bleach to help on the hygiene issue as recent history shows keeping your living area clean and sterile will help keep down infectious disease.

This is a gun forum after all, but the critical ingredient to surviving several weeks without utilities is clean, drinkable water. If you fill your vehicle with firearms and ammunition something else has to give. The amount of water you need goes up if the ambient temperature is high; it can easily top 2 gallons+ per person per day if you are on the move mid-summer. Learn how to store enough water for you and your loved ones and have a schedule for replacement. Carry quality water filters should you find a water supply but are uncertain of it's quality. Even with the correct amount of chlorine or iodine, its not generally possible to keep water fresh for more than about 6 months at a time. Adding chlorine or iodine above safe levels is increasingly poisonous.

In a home, assuming water utilities are still flowing immediately after a disaster, you could fill every bathtub and any container you own that can hold water to hold out a few weeks. If you lose utilities immediately then there isn't a good way of knowing where in your general area you might have better luck and it may already be too late. You can live 3 weeks without food (though miserable and increasingly unable to perform basic functions) but you can only survive 3 days without water and you don't maintain optimal mental function as you become more and more dehydrated.

As for bugging out in general, do you actually have a destination in mind? Where are you going and what do you expect when you get there? If you have all your basic provisions (water in particular, which is going to be the bulkiest if not heaviest thing you've got to take with you), which location are you headed to? Is there any well stocked food and water where you are headed? If its to get away from scary people that you fear may do you harm, is it a specific threat, or just a fear? You have to weigh your risks as to what is immediate and what is hypothetical, immediate risks can change quickly. Another question is what happens if you get to your bug out location and find someone else has already taken up residence? Property rights go out the window after a major disaster, keep that in mind. What if you can't reasonably get there at all because the roads or trails leading there are blocked? Do you have a plan B, C and D? If you aren't already there when the bad thing happens, you may not actually be able to get there at all and you should plan accordingly.

There is a limit to how many supplies you can reasonably carry with you, even in an SUV. SUVs, while seemingly a good choice, aren't always the offroad thoroughbreds they are claimed to be without substantial suspension modifications and a more appropriate offroad tire set. They are also fairly heavy, often have poor maneuverability (especially when fully loaded) and not particularly fuel efficient, all things you'll need to consider in how long your maximum range is. Fully loaded a typical SUV running on gasoline might only be expected to achieve 13-17 mpg on a road and perhaps 7-11 mpg offroad. A smaller SUV could perhaps achieve 20-22 mpg on road and maybe 13-15 mpg offroad depending on terrain. A large diesel SUV or pickup truck might achieve something a bit better than the gasoline equivalent in the same weight range, perhaps 18 mpg on road and and 12 offroad. Extra fuel tanks and/or extra fuel cans are going to increase range but offset your maximum loaded weight and make the vehicle more top heavy, which may or may not matter depending on where you are trying to go and what kind of terrain you are going to deal with.

Most SUVs are typically large, highly visible targets for motivated thieves. A smaller SUV will be less visible but be limited in cargo capacity, torque and the amount of fuel that can be carried. No matter what vehicle you drive, you'll need to figure out how to reduce your profile both in transit and upon arrival at one of your bug out locations. Staying off the major roads, or off roads all together is the usual advise, but if you get stuck in the mud or sand at or near maximum load you're going to have a hell of a time getting unstuck without the tools and experience to do so.

To the original question of a firearm - a .22 pistol is a bare minimum. I don't think I'd carry this in the car at all times, this should be part of the load you transfer into the vehicle before departure. A collapsing or folding pistol cartridge carbine might be the better option. Don't overdo it on ammo, a few hundred rounds is probably sufficient. No matter what weapon you choose, be realistic. The goal is to survive, so your efforts need to be in avoiding contact with folks who might do you harm for what you have. Armed groups in other disasters have been known to setup road blocks, no weapon is going to be adequate f you are numerically outnumbered, outgunned you have something other people need, which goes again to where you are planning to go and how you are planning to get there.

With all this in mind, determine just how vulnerable you are or think you will be if you stayed put after a disaster in your home. Bugging out should be a last resort in most circumstances, the risks have to be weighed continuously. Your capacity for food and water that you can reasonably pack into a vehicle as opposed to your home will be substantially reduced and it may be easier to defend your home, or use subterfuge to convince a potential looter to pass you by than defend yourself in your vehicle.

plumbum
09-25-2011, 9:26 AM
Bugging out should be a last resort in most circumstances, the risks have to be weighed continuously. Your capacity for food and water that you can reasonably pack into a vehicle as opposed to your home will be substantially reduced and it may be easier to defend your home, or use subterfuge to convince a potential looter to pass you by than defend yourself in your vehicle.

Great, there goes my plan of sneaking out of town in my Dubbed out Escalade loaded with crates of Patron... :)

Excellent post Richard, thanks!

Freagan
09-26-2011, 6:04 AM
Anyone thought of maybe using a Draco or mini-Draco to stash in the car for SHTF? I am thinking I would much rather have a serious rifle round in a small package for this purpose. The 7.62 does really well out of short barrels, and is still fairly cheap.

geeknow
09-26-2011, 6:24 AM
a while back, a lot of LE agencies stored shotguns in the trunks of squad cars. These were secured in a heavy duty, locked case which was mounted to the roof of the trunk. When those same agencies switched to a mounting system that allowed the shotguns to be mounted inside the passenger compartment, these sturdy boxes (10ga steel?) began to appear on the market, here and there. From what I hear, they are still floating around. I think that one of these, with an inexpensive pump shotgun would be a nice addition to any vehicle that you thought could be called upon to whisk you and yours from a danger zone.