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Coyotegunner
09-20-2011, 8:05 AM
A friend due to financial problems put off 2 years, buying a S&W 460 until this last month.The 5" model is going off roster this next year.He put the 454 Casull ammo through it with no problems.Ordered Hornady 460,200 gr hunting loads new from Cabelas.The Hornadys caused the cylinder to lock up 2 out of 7 rds.He stopped shooting them at this point and called me,knowing I reload a lot.His description of the brass is flattened primers on all,with the 2 that caused it not to rotate the cylinder actually protruding from the brass.To me as a reloader,he has a severe overpressure problem.All 7 failed to eject without alot of work.I told him to give Hornady,Cabelas and S&W a call.Hornadys tech questioned him if he had ever seen overpressure before in a gun,which he has when he experimented with top loads in a 44 mag.The man indicated to him the cartridge and ammo are loaded for optimum performance and can show signs of overpressure.I told him in this part of our conversation that is BS.People count on those pistols for bear protection.I have another friend in Alaska this week bow hunting for moose and he carries the same gun for bears,but uses a heavier bullet.The Hornady 200gr was what the 460 rd was designed for.The 454 Casull fired in the gun fine at the end of the day fine.Since Hornady is sending a shipping recall to him for the ammo replacement.Cabelas has took note they may have a bad lot of 460 S&W/LOT #3110428.In the mean time I advised him if the new ammo when recieved is doing the same thing,send the gun to S&W.I wanted to post this as a warning with deer season almost upon us.Is anyone thinking I have advised my friend wrong?I would welcome any input to be PMd to me.Thank you

asgalindez
09-20-2011, 11:25 AM
All 7 failed to eject without alot of work.


Can't speak as to the other issues going on, but regarding this...

If you fire a short case first, then a long case, the long case will get stuck. I was advised this by the previous owner of the 460V that I bought. He told me that if I shot 45colt or 454casull, that I had to clean the chambers of the cylinder before I shot 460s&wmag or the casings would stick due to the residue from the shorter-cased ammo.

44fred
09-20-2011, 12:22 PM
My first post.
I'm the guy coyotegunner is talking about.
The 454 rounds were fired after the seven 460 rounds, not before.
I've read plenty about the extraction problems using 460 after 454 or 45 long before I bought the gun. The gun appears to be fine.
You guys really need to check your lot numbers on your Hornady 200grFTX ammo. If they match the above number, proceed with caution and certainly don't rely on them in a dangerous situation. Blown back primers that froze up the cylinder makes this a one shot revolver.
S&W offered to pick my gun up and check it out, all on their dime! Fedex is picking it up today.
Fred

crazy russian
10-01-2011, 8:33 AM
I shot my 460 for the first time yesterday ....... about 40 rounds of Colt first, then 5 rounds of 460. Not a single problem. Hornady lot 3111299, 200 grain FTX.

44fred
12-12-2011, 3:15 PM
Hey guys
I should have posted the results from S&W and Hornady earlier but here it is now.
The gun went to S&W and the ammo back to Hornady.
Gun ended up in the peformance center to be checked out. Hand written note from a gunsmith was-- replaced the compensator retaining screw, replaced the firing pin and re set the cylinder to barrel gap. Function tested and all is well. NO CHARGE! I am not the original owner.
Hornady sent me 4 new boxes of ammo (I shipped them 3 minus 7 spent rounds).
Before shipping the new ammo back to me, the tech that was handling my ammo gave me a call. Nice guy and very up front about the whole thing. He tested the ammo and the pressure tests were erratic.
I was told this ammo is loaded to the max to attain the highest velocity. Some ammo is more consistent than others, this was not. The pressures he was getting was still within maximum specifications.

Here is what I think. The ammo was probably fine. The barrel to cylinder gap was excessive and is now very tight. Haven't measured it yet but the gun runs like a champ. Whoever loaded for this gun before selling it to me, probably loaded too hot.
Now I can't wait to load up some lead free for hunting and some heavy cast for fun and protection in bear/lion country. I really like this gun, you should get one before they come off the "list" next summer.:D

Neptune
12-12-2011, 11:31 PM
Loading too hot in a gun designed for .454 and .460 is setting things pretty high up there. The .454 Casull and .460 XVR are both speced way up there at a SAAMI maximum average pressure of 65,000 psi.

Just for those who wonder how that compares to handgun cartridges in the mortal world, the .44 Magnum is speced at a SAAMI maximum average pressure of 36,000 PSI.

Boom!

Glad to hear things worked out safely.



..

44fred
12-23-2011, 1:23 PM
Well said. The loads I'm looking at don't exceed 57,000PSI for max loads. Probably won't go over 50,000. How much power do you need anyway? 360gr WLNGC at 1800fps should kick the cr@p out of anything on earth.

VulpesVafrae
12-23-2011, 7:58 PM
Off topic, I am confused about this S&W 460.. is this a wheel gun that can shoot .44mag .45LC .454 cas AND .460 s&w? that seems like an awfully accepting chamber.. what do you mean by the first "7" failed to eject? the 460 is a wheel with 7 .45s?!

TKM
12-23-2011, 8:28 PM
The 460 is way way up there in the handgun pressure world. Not exactly riding the edge of madness, but you can see it from there.

I had to send a Ruger SRH 454 back to the factory due to a lot of recoil induced endshake, all is well since its return. A little spooky though.

The power involved in these cartridges is awesome. A small lapse in QA ends up in a nickname like Lefty.

Every standard safety precaution becomes much more important when you could be holding a grenade. If anything doesn't feel right, stop what you are doing and look carefully at everything.

jyo
12-23-2011, 9:02 PM
I have had two Freedom Arms 454 Casull for at least 15+ years and hve fired many many factory rounds thru these guns---they still lock-up tight as a drum and shoot like a rifle. Have little experience with the 460---still trying to imagine needing more than the 454. Oh. and just for fun, I rebarreled a Ruger #3 single-shot to 454 about the same time as I got the revolvers---shoots kinda like a stiff 45-70.

44fred
12-24-2011, 8:03 AM
Off topic, I am confused about this S&W 460.. is this a wheel gun that can shoot .44mag .45LC .454 cas AND .460 s&w? that seems like an awfully accepting chamber.. what do you mean by the first "7" failed to eject? the 460 is a wheel with 7 .45s?!

The 460 is a handy handful. You can shoot 45 Scofield (sp?), 45 LC, 454 Casull, and 460 S&W out of the same gun. Each cartridge is just longer than the one listed prior. Just like 38 sp/357 mag/357 maximum, 44 sp/44 mag. All are 45 cal so 44 mag will not work! My gun is a 5 shot S&W 460V (V=5" barrel).

The first seven rounds had to be pushed out of the cylinder with a wooden dowel because they expanded excessively to the cylinder walls. The primers also backed out causing the cylinder to lock up.