PDA

View Full Version : Staking a Magpul ASAP?


Nismo
09-20-2011, 6:21 AM
Im thinking about getting a Magpul ASAP plate and was wondering if those who have them, are staking them? From some pics Ive seen, the edge of the plate is a bit higher than the castle nut notches so staking them may require a lot more metal to be moved.

Purple K
09-20-2011, 6:51 AM
I have four AR's in various calibers. I've never staked a castle nut and never had one loosen up.

Nathan Krynn
09-20-2011, 7:39 AM
I have had them come loose but it took a LOT to do it on a properly torqued castle nut.

I have not staked an ASAP but I am sure it can be done.

pipboy
09-20-2011, 8:08 AM
I staked my ASAP plate. It was not a problem. I just used a cheap auto stake/punch tool. I have witnessed a shooter's castle nut come loose which ended his shooting session. I don't know the circumstances around how it was installed-properly or not, but it can happen.

If torqued properly chances are it won't come lose, but maybe its because I'm anal or have mild OCD, I do what I can to avoid these kind of "chances". With a $3 tool and a few minutes I felt it worth it to take care of and not worry about.

SanPedroShooter
09-20-2011, 8:14 AM
Stake your nut. Its just the "right thing to do." Harbor Freight sells a pen style punch for eight bucks or so, breaks auto glass cleanly too.


http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=6994

cvx5832
09-20-2011, 9:24 AM
I also have the ASAP plate. The instructions (http://cdn.magpul.com/downloads/ASAP_Install.pdf)that came with it didn't say anything about staking, so I figured it was safe enough to try. 2,454 round later (yes, I keep a log) it hasn't backed off.

The finish on the ASAP plate is very gritty, almost like a fine sandpaper. This probably gives the nut more to hang on to. I also used a torque wrench and tightened to the recommended 40 ft-lbs, and marked the joint with paint so I can clearly see movement on inspection.

That 40 ft-lb spec is a lot for that application. After I applied that torque I got some confidence it wouldn't back off, and it hasn't. Granted I still have a low round count through it.

pipboy
09-20-2011, 9:26 AM
Stake your nut. Its just the "right thing to do." Harbor Freight sells a pen style punch for eight bucks or so, breaks auto glass cleanly too.

Exactly, thats what I used. It won't be properly staked after one shot, it will take several strikes, but this tool does the job very well with a minimum effort.

http://www.harborfreight.com/spring-loaded-center-punch-621.html


Not much of a reason not to stake it unless you plan on changing end plates or buffer tubes often.

SanPedroShooter
09-20-2011, 9:30 AM
Ha ha, 40 Ft-lb seems like a lot because it 40ft-in

Actually I guess not. I have seen people debate this issue, noting that 40 ft-lb is about the leval of torque needed to hold the lug nuts on the wheels of a car...

Here's an email reply from a Colt amourer

There is a HUGE difference between a forged and an extruded rec extension. You are looking at fixed stock (rifle) rec extensions.
The extruded items are softer, much lower quality items. The kind of stuff you find on aftermarket-junk guns.

All torque values on the M16/M4 are in FT/LBS, except the screws which hold the key in place.

Yes, the rec extension nut should be correctly stakes, as designed. No, loctite is not an alternative.

Take Care,
Ken

Ken Elmore

Specialized Armament (1990 - Present)
Instructor, COLT Defense (1997 - 2007)
Sergeant, US Army (1986 - 1990)

I didnt have a castle nut wrench, so I tightened it by hand, then gave it a few taps with a punch and mallet, then staked it.

SanPedroShooter
09-20-2011, 9:31 AM
Exactly, thats what I used. It won't be properly staked after one shot, it will take several strikes, but this tool does the job very well with a minimum effort.

http://www.harborfreight.com/spring-loaded-center-punch-621.html


Not much of a reason not to stake it unless you plan on changing end plates or buffer tubes often.

It took me two or three tries as well. I have been meaning to post pics, but it looks good to me. Not as clean as a pnumatic factory stake (see link in my other post) but it should hold.

starsnuffer
09-20-2011, 9:40 AM
Any suggestions on how to remove a castle nut that WAS properly staked? I'm afraid I'm going to break something trying to get the nut off my MR556 to install a sling mount there.

-W

Nismo
09-20-2011, 9:43 AM
Ha ha, 40 Ft-lb seems like a lot because it 40ft-in

Actually I guess not. I have seen people debate this issue, noting that 40 ft-lb is about the leval of torque needed to hold the lug nuts on the wheels of a car...

Here's an email reply from a Colt amourer

There is a HUGE difference between a forged and an extruded rec extension. You are looking at fixed stock (rifle) rec extensions.
The extruded items are softer, much lower quality items. The kind of stuff you find on aftermarket-junk guns.

All torque values on the M16/M4 are in FT/LBS, except the screws which hold the key in place.

Yes, the rec extension nut should be correctly stakes, as designed. No, loctite is not an alternative.

Take Care,
Ken

Ken Elmore

Specialized Armament (1990 - Present)
Instructor, COLT Defense (1997 - 2007)
Sergeant, US Army (1986 - 1990)

I didnt have a castle nut wrench, so I tightened it by hand, then gave it a few taps with a punch and mallet, then staked it.


40 ft lbs isnt as much as you think. My lug nuts on my car are torqued at 85 ft lbs. My spark plugs are at 15 ft lbs.

SanPedroShooter
09-20-2011, 9:44 AM
Everyone I have ever talked to, said... well now that mention it, I dont remember. You should be able to "break" through the stake if you hit it hard enough. Padded vise, castle nut wrench, breaker bar, brute force.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=54794

starsnuffer
09-20-2011, 9:56 AM
Thanks for that link! Looks like a punch might be the best course of action to peel the metal from the stake back out of the nut. . that or dremel off the castle nut and just replace it.

Are all castle nuts created equal?

-W

Nismo
09-20-2011, 10:00 AM
Thanks for that link! Looks like a punch might be the best course of action to peel the metal from the stake back out of the nut. . that or dremel off the castle nut and just replace it.

Are all castle nuts created equal?

-W

You could just dremel out the staked metal out of the castle nut notch with either a small drill bit or one of those small grinder attachments that look like a dentists drill. You would probably have to buy a new lock plate or just restake it in another notch if you can live with the grind mark.

starsnuffer
09-20-2011, 10:08 AM
Thanks Nismo.

Wouldn't the ASAP, or similar sling attachment system work as the new lock plate, or would one need the lock plate in addition to it?

-W

shark92651
09-20-2011, 10:32 AM
Any suggestions on how to remove a castle nut that WAS properly staked? I'm afraid I'm going to break something trying to get the nut off my MR556 to install a sling mount there.

-W

This is really easy and no need to mess with power tools. Just put your lower in a vice (preferably in a lower block) and apply pressure with a stock wrench and the stake will bend/break off.

starsnuffer
09-20-2011, 10:45 AM
This is really easy and no need to mess with power tools. Just put your lower in a vice (preferably in a lower block) and apply pressure with a stock wrench and the stake will bend/break off.

I did this, and I got really worried that I was going to twist my lower before the castle nut stakes (multiple stakes, HK is anal) broke off. It's not like I can go and pick up a $100 lower to replace it.

-W

SanPedroShooter
09-20-2011, 11:00 AM
I suppose that if its staked multiple times (I believe LMT does this too) maybe drilling is not such a bad idea. If you break that lower... fuggitaboutit.

Once you get it offa there, get a new castle nut if you need it, some people say they reuse them, then use the new MP plate to stake your new nut.

pipboy
09-20-2011, 11:07 AM
Thanks Nismo.

Wouldn't the ASAP, or similar sling attachment system work as the new lock plate, or would one need the lock plate in addition to it?

-W

The ASAP or similar sling attachment replaces and functions as your new endplate.

kozumasbullitt
09-20-2011, 11:10 AM
I staked my ASAP easily with a center punch. I had to line the ASAP holes up at 10 and 2 to be able to stake it.

cvx5832
09-20-2011, 11:21 AM
Ha ha, 40 Ft-lb seems like a lot because it 40ft-in

Actually I guess not. I have seen people debate this issue, noting that 40 ft-lb is about the leval of torque needed to hold the lug nuts on the wheels of a car...

I didnt have a castle nut wrench, so I tightened it by hand, then gave it a few taps with a punch and mallet, then staked it.

It isn't 40 in-lbs. The in-lb spec on the milspec documentation is a misprint, then repeated ad-nauseum because it is officially milspec after all.

Pick up an in-lb torque wrench and tighten a castle nut using 40 in-lbs. You'll know what I'm talking about. In my opinion it is debated by people who have never taken a torque wrench to a castle nut. At 40 in-lbs, you can twist it off with you bare hands if you put sandpaper between your hands and the nut for grip.

And no, 40 ft-lbs won't hold your car lugs. That's way too low. And while a punch and a mallet got your castle nut on, it's the staking that's holding it in place. No way you're going to achieve the proper torque with those tools.

I'm not trying to be a dick. But coming from rebuilding cars, there's no substitute for a (good) torque wrench no matter how clever you think you are.

SanPedroShooter
09-20-2011, 11:42 AM
I went back and edited my post. I didnt say it was my opinion, its just something people argue about.

Dark Mod
09-20-2011, 11:47 AM
You can just use some locktite, it will accomplish the same thing. Just make sure you use the blue stuff, not the red

cvx5832
09-20-2011, 11:54 AM
Dude calm down, I went back and edited my post (way before you posted I might add), besides I didnt say it was my opinion, its just something people argue about.

So thanks for "not trying to be a dick"...

Sorry about that. Reading it again that was a bit much. I should have worded that better - no disrespect meant.

SanPedroShooter
09-20-2011, 12:02 PM
I apolgize as well. I also think I misread what you wrote. It happens a lot around here.

motorwerks
09-20-2011, 2:46 PM
40 ft lbs isnt as much as you think. My lug nuts on my car are torqued at 85 ft lbs. My spark plugs are at 15 ft lbs.

Exactly what I was thinking, I normally torque to around 90 ft lbs, and I think my truck is around 100 ft lbs.

CHS
09-20-2011, 2:51 PM
Staking is super simple free insurance. There's really no reason NOT to do it. It doesn't come with any disadvantages. Even properly staked, it's still easy to break through the staking to remove the castle nut at a later time should you need to.

FatalKitty
09-20-2011, 2:51 PM
I have four AR's in various calibers. I've never staked a castle nut and never had one loosen up.

pretty much