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mortman
09-19-2011, 11:29 AM
Hi,
Okay, so I send a slide and a receiver to an engraver: no barrel, etc.; just the two pieces. By US Mail. Am I shipping a gun thus violating postal regs or am I okay?
Thanks,
M.

sequoia_nomad
09-19-2011, 11:57 AM
Since the frame has a serial number and is usually the part that's considered a firearm, I'd say it would need to be treated exactly like a fully assembled gun.

Briancnelson
09-19-2011, 12:16 PM
This is just my opinion, not legal advice, but for a handgun, you are safer following procedure no matter what part of the gun you send, and assuming it is a handgun. Unless its just magazines, or a trigger assembly, or something else so fractional it couldn't be mistaken for a handgun, like a spare firing pin or sights.

For a rifle, particularly the AR's and AK's the parts are a bit more distinct, and there is lots of precedent, since retailers send the non-lower parts without needing an FFL all the time.

sneather
09-19-2011, 12:45 PM
Only the serialized part of a handgun is considered, "the gun". That is the reason that, even a stripped-bare frame must still be treated as a complete gun, following all the roster rules here in CA. But all the other parts are of no legal consequence, save but for things expressly unlawful here, like threaded barrels. It's the reason you can go to a place like Berettaforum.net and see that all the guys are regularly buying and selling slides, barrels and misc parts. While there are also full guns for sale, there are a disproportionate number of parts that come and go because those don't require any FFL legal involvement.

The one pistol, that comes to mind, which is the opposite is the Ruger MK-series pistol. As the barrel/receiver assembly has the serial number roll-mark, but the frame is devoid of legal identification.

paul0660
09-19-2011, 12:47 PM
Some slides are serialed; some barrels as well. The serialized receiver is the part that is a gun, the rest are parts, number or not.

sneather
09-19-2011, 1:09 PM
Some slides are serialed; some barrels as well. The serialized receiver is the part that is a gun, the rest are parts, number or not.

Good point, which I forgot to make. The Germans, particularly, are fond of matching serials for the barrels and slides. But as stated above, only the receivers are the only relevant parts.

paul0660
09-19-2011, 1:12 PM
Or, what we call "frames" when speaking of pistols.

A long gun, in parts or whole, can be sent in the mail anyway.

Librarian
09-19-2011, 2:07 PM
From this thread, I realized the Wiki did not have a discussion of 'what is a gun'.

Fixed! http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/index.php/Definition_of_a_firearm/gun

Briancnelson
09-19-2011, 2:10 PM
Problem isn't that every part of the gun is a "gun" so to speak, its that the shipper often doesn't know the difference, so you end up having to argue with them forever.

mortman
09-19-2011, 2:35 PM
So...I am going to be safe: shipping through FFL.
Input much appreciated.

Cordially,
M.

Can't buy anything here
09-19-2011, 3:39 PM
You can ship it yourself as long as it is going to an FFL and you send it overnight by Fed Ex or UPS. You must also declare what it is. They can also ship it back to you.

agent.5
09-19-2011, 4:11 PM
You can ship it yourself as long as it is going to an FFL and you send it overnight by Fed Ex or UPS. You must also declare what it is. They can also ship it back to you.

i think you can ship UPS 2nd day actually.

GoingQuiet
09-20-2011, 12:37 AM
i think you can ship UPS 2nd day actually.

Want to get confused? Here, lets try.

UPS and Fedex allow non-FFL's to ship handguns but it has to go overnight.

ATF allows non-FFL's to ship handguns no problem, and they defer to common carrier regs.

USPS will NOT allow a non-FFL to ship a handgun, period.

ATF defines a handgun as a fully assembled firearm, frame, barrel and slide.

ATF defines an "other firearm" is something with a serial number that is not a complete firearm. 1911 frames and AR15 stripped lowers fall into the "other firearm" category.

So, really the question here is - does UPS or Fedex or USPS allow the shipping of "other firearms" - and if so, at what service level?

Librarian
09-20-2011, 1:32 AM
ATF defines a handgun as a fully assembled firearm, frame, barrel and slide.



That is inaccurate. Not only is that inconsistent with 18 USC 921, it doesn't match 27 CFR 478 (http://law.justia.com/cfr/title27/27-2.0.1.2.3.html#27:2.0.1.2.3.2.1.1):Firearm. Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive device; but the term shall not include an antique firearm. In the case of a licensed collector, the term shall mean only curios and relics.

Firearm frame or receiver. That part of a firearm which provides housing for the hammer, bolt or breechblock, and firing mechanism, and which is usually threaded at its forward portion to receive the barrel.

icedevil
09-20-2011, 7:28 AM
i think you can ship UPS 2nd day actually.

Not for a handgun. Must be overnight per UPS regs. People seem to use slower methods all the time, but I would hate to have to file an insurance claim on a lost handgun not shipped in accordance with their policy.

GoingQuiet
09-20-2011, 5:44 PM
That is inaccurate. Not only is that inconsistent with 18 USC 921, it doesn't match 27 CFR 478 (http://law.justia.com/cfr/title27/27-2.0.1.2.3.html#27:2.0.1.2.3.2.1.1):

That was my understanding from ATF - that a handgun has to be complete to be called a handgun. A 1911 frame is not a handgun, it is an "other firearm" to be treated like a Glock frame, an AR15 frame, etc - which is in fact an "other firearm"

GoingQuiet
09-20-2011, 5:45 PM
Not for a handgun. Must be overnight per UPS regs. People seem to use slower methods all the time, but I would hate to have to file an insurance claim on a lost handgun not shipped in accordance with their policy.

Large volume accounts get to go 2nd day. Like Smith and Wesson.

TangoCharlie
09-20-2011, 7:21 PM
Good point, which I forgot to make. The Germans, particularly, are fond of matching serials for the barrels and slides. But as stated above, only the receivers are the only relevant parts.

Most Euro gun manufacturers serialize lower, upper and barrel in order to cover various legal definitions of "firearm" found worldwide. In the US, the receiver is the "firearm", but in South Africa, for example, the barrel is the "firearm". Thus these parts or the complete gun itself can be sent anywhere in the world and comply.