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okglockman
09-18-2011, 7:32 AM
What's everyone's thoughts on "Mouse Guns"? Specifically referring to .380's and smaller. Keltec's, LCP's, Walther PPK, S&W Bodyguard, etc? (In my opinion, even a .22 Cal in your pocket is better than a .45 left at home. Personally, I'll continue to carry both. =) Some people are completely against "Pocket Guns". Thought it would start an interesting string of conversation..

2 Questions on this thread:

1. What are your thoughts on small, concealable, < .380 pistols?
2. What brand and caliber would you carry or not carry...and why?

RollingCode3
09-18-2011, 7:35 AM
I carry the Ruger LCP with 380 acp WWB fmj

Oceanbob
09-18-2011, 7:50 AM
I had a few Seecamps in .32 over the years. These days the smallest I carry is a Glock 27 (or 26). Same size.

I feel in a real confrontation I want a caliber doesn't make the attacker more angry. :43: I want a caliber that STOPS the ATTACK right away.!...putting small holes into a large, angry man won't stop anything. You will have to OUTRUN him....LOL..just my opinion..:)

A .40 Cor-bon or Buffalo Bore round has a much better chance of stopping or preventing further aggression.

I am not a fan of .380 or under.

Most .380s are blow-back platforms that actually kick more than some 9s.

But the high cost of .380, .32, .25..etc really prevents getting proficient at the range.

Here is one of my Seecamps....good quality and very reliable. But only if you're in swimming shorts and sandals would I carry one. ;)

In a bad neighborhood I want something more capable. The GLOCK 27 does it for me over the Seecamp.

Other than that, a good snubbie wheel gun with Plus P .38 or .357 is another good option. But the G27 is about the same size...and has 10 rounds instead of 5. :cool2:

Be well, Bob

http://i54.tinypic.com/xnykgi.jpg

VegasND
09-18-2011, 8:24 AM
I rarely carry anything smaller than the KelTec PF-9

If I need to get really small I choose the P32 over a .380 because of the extra round. There are few situations I need anything smaller than the PF-9

I have some pocket .25s and .22s but have never carried them. I guess I'd carry the Baby Browning before I'd go unarmed.

Quiet
09-18-2011, 8:42 AM
2 Questions on this thread:

1. What are your thoughts on small, concealable, < .380 pistols?
2. What brand and caliber would you carry or not carry...and why?

1. Pocketguns are small, lightweight and very easy to carry concealed. The .32ACP pocketguns tend to have less felt recoil than the .380ACP pocketguns.
For about 50 years, the .32ACP was the standard issue European law enforcement sidearm caliber.

2. When I pocketcarry, it's my Kel-Tec P-32.
I chose the Kel-Tec P-32 because it was lighter, thinner & more durable than the Beretta Model 3032, the only other option available at the time for less than $400.

r3dn3ck
09-18-2011, 9:40 AM
a small one is just a bit better than none at all. If you can deal with more gun, take more gun. thought this formerly living equine was thoroughly flogged post-mortem already.

ElvenSoul
09-18-2011, 9:45 AM
The little Keltec is a nice gun. Fired one before and did alright with it.

ICONIC
09-18-2011, 10:30 AM
I have a kel tec p3at. I take it out to the range every once in a great while. so far very reliable and no issues. .380 ammo has come a long way in the last few years.

okglockman
09-18-2011, 11:24 AM
I have both the Kel-Tec PF9 and P32. The PF9 is my typical every day choice. Got the P-3AT Keltec .380 for the wife to carry when she goes walking by herself or is on trips. She's much more comfortable with it's recoil than my Glock .357 sig.... LOL... She'll never touch the glock again.... it hurt her wrist... lol

dfletcher
09-18-2011, 1:53 PM
I have the NAA Guardian in 32 ACP, basically a Seecamp clone with a 1911 style mag release. Works fine, recoil's no problem.

kln5
09-18-2011, 2:23 PM
I have two walther ppk's and I think they make great James Bond films but have yet to feel comfortable to stake my life on them.
When I do pocket carry I go with a ruger lcr.

JeremyS
09-18-2011, 2:40 PM
Good comparo chart attached.

Edit: too big to attach. Find it here: http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=1668&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.defensivecarry.com%2Fforum%2F defensive-carry-guns%2F125505-new-url-bobos-pocket-auto-comparison-chart.html&v=1&libid=1316382158453&out=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.google.com%2Fviewer%3Fa%3Dv %26pid%3Dexplorer%26chrome%3Dtrue%26srcid%3D0B22wL syYEkTOMDU4MjJlNTktOTRlZi00NTJkLWE0MGMtZmEwNGFlMWE 3ZDlm%26hl%3Den_US&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fsearch%3Fhl%3Den %26source%3Dhp%26biw%3D1366%26bih%3D673%26q%3Dpock et%2Bauto%2Bcomparison%2Bpdf%26oq%3Dpocket%2Bauto% 2Bcomparison%2Bpdf%26aq%3Df%26aqi%3Dg-v1%26aql%3D1%26gs_sm%3De%26gs_upl%3D216l3325l0l345 2l26l19l0l0l0l0l232l2610l5.12.2l19l0&title=New%20URL%20for%20Bobo's%20Pocket%20Auto%20C omparison%20Chart&txt=%3Cb%3EBobo's%20Pocket%20Auto%20Comparison%20C hart%3C%2Fb%3E&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13163821676891

Jake71
09-18-2011, 2:45 PM
I have a Cobra Derringer in .38Special w/ 4" barrel that I would carry if I had the need.

However if I'm going to be serious about carrying I'd have my glock 30 or Colt Defender on me.

luckygunner
09-18-2011, 3:52 PM
I think there has been enough progress in the ballistics of the .380 acp that you can carry the round with confidence that as long as your shot placement is good you'll be fine. I do prefer a 9mm when I have the ability to carry my larger EDC.

I carry an LCP as my summer carry. Much easier to conceal in shorts. I also carry it as a backup. Although that is pretty rare.

__________________
380 auto ammo (http://www.luckygunner.com/handgun/380-auto-ammo)

mugiwara
09-18-2011, 3:57 PM
i LOVE my kahr mk9.

okglockman
09-18-2011, 6:44 PM
I have a Kahr in .380... awesome shooting gun. At 25 yards I can shoot a very tight group, especially considering the size of the pistol.

Fate
09-18-2011, 6:47 PM
I'm going to use the same argument people that choose 9mm over .45 use. With modern ammo a .32 will make a > 9mm sized hole ;)

Over the years, .32 pistols have seen plenty of combat action and killed plenty of people. With modern ammo, a small piece is better than the hogleg that's home in your safe.

usmcchet9296
09-18-2011, 6:59 PM
I always find itr funny when people bash 22's, 32's and 380's as being too small for self defence. Sure I would choose my 1911 45 or Beretta 9mm over my Beretta Tomcat 32 if I could but If I need something that I can throw in my pocket comfortably than its my little 32 with some nice hollow points because its better than harsh language if Im confronted by a badguy.

InGrAM
09-18-2011, 7:00 PM
The best of the best. :D

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7985/coltmustang.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/coltmustang.jpg/)

MrOrange
09-18-2011, 7:15 PM
1. I defer to the good Colonel, and his reply to a query from a woman member of "one of our clandestine services" as to the .25 auto:

Carry it if it comforts you, but never load it. If you load it, you may fire it. If you fire it, you may hit someone. If you hit someone, he will become very angry with you and do you violence.

With the plethora of tiny nines out there nowadays, there's no reason to carry anything smaller unless, as others have stated, you need to carry concealed in a Speedo or sumthin. Yes, the smaller calibers can kill, and yes the .22 LR has probably killed more in civilian actions than the 9mm and .45ACP combined. So has overeating, but it shouldn't be counted on to stop a fight.

2. One a these:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b27/joesat/twicenines.jpg


'Cause they're reliable and pack a decent punch and are easier to conceal, carry spare ammo for, and reload than a small frame revolver.

bsg
09-18-2011, 7:23 PM
i own a w german Sig Sauer P230SL in .380 caliber. it's a great handgun. for defensive purposes though, the G26 is the subcompact semi auto that i'd use if needed for deep concealment.

i've always wanted a Seecamp... just because.

huntercf
09-18-2011, 7:24 PM
My Mom used to carry a .25 auto with her to work as she worked nights at a hospital in the not so nice part of town. I shot it a few times and it was a pretty good little pistol.

CalNRA
09-18-2011, 7:28 PM
If one considers .380s to be inadequate then the millions of .38 special snubnoses out there must be some real useless paperweights...

sequoia_nomad
09-18-2011, 7:28 PM
If I really need true concealment, I carry the Lcp. For day to day carry, I find my G23 seems to disappear under my shirt. Ymmv.

jermedic
09-18-2011, 10:24 PM
I have a LCP that sometimes goes with me in a front pocket. My primary gun is either my Glock 36 most of the time or my G 21 when it's cold and I wear a jacket. The LCP shoots well and is super easy to hide. On the rare occasions that I do carry just the LCP I have a spare mag and don't really feel under gunned.

tileguy
09-19-2011, 9:48 AM
i carry a sub-compact 45 most of the time but for the days i need smaller for some reason or other i will grab my very small colt pocket vest 25 acp. and once again to the ney sayers of the 25 acp it works. its not my first choice but when needed its there. mouse guns serve a purpose. ill tell the story again for those that dont belive a 25 acp can work. a few years ago a police officer was shot and killed in my town with 2 shots to the chest just above his vest by a 25 acp. so i believe if i ever need to use it it will give me time to escape or stop the situation . i have had my carry permit for over 20 yrs.

RedFord150
09-19-2011, 9:55 AM
I keep a Bersa Thunder in .380 ACP as my 'Travel Gun'. The HD Ammo I choose is either Remington Golden Sabre 102 Grain JHP or Cor-Bon DPX 90 Grain JHP. The gun feeds both reliably and the ballistics are pretty decent.
A lot of .380 owners think FMJ ball Ammo is the better choice because it feeds reliably and penetrates better.
I am glad that I own handguns in larger calibers, but I do feel. 380 ACP is adequate for defensive use. I also feel that ammo selection is far more critical with smaller calibers.

okglockman
09-19-2011, 6:48 PM
The smallest I typically carry is Kel-Tec PF9, loaded with Golden Sabre Hollow Points and a spare mag. If that's what I'm carrying.....trust me... there is likely a glock .357 sig in the vehicle console. I never wander far from my Glock....even if I have to carry smaller because of the types of clothes I'm wearing. With the waistband holster, you can conceal a full sized pistol in almost any situation. The development of holsters is phenomenal. So many ways to carry a full sized pistol with the least amount of clothes.

Bug Splat
09-19-2011, 6:57 PM
I keep a Bersa Thunder in .380 ACP as my 'Travel Gun'. The HD Ammo I choose is either Remington Golden Sabre 102 Grain JHP or Cor-Bon DPX 90 Grain JHP. The gun feeds both reliably and the ballistics are pretty decent.
A lot of .380 owners think FMJ ball Ammo is the better choice because it feeds reliably and penetrates better.
I am glad that I own handguns in larger calibers, but I do feel. 380 ACP is adequate for defensive use. I also feel that ammo selection is far more critical with smaller calibers.

+1 love my little bersa with my ultra thin grips. Its been 100% with all types of ammo. I keep 90gr dpx's in her and feel that if called it, it will do the job.

okglockman
09-19-2011, 7:06 PM
Most important fact about any gun you carry...regardless of size or caliber... is know how to use it and actually have it with you. Shot placement is much more important any day of the week than size or caliber. If you can shoot a tight group with a larger caliber, I'd still recommend the larger caliber.... Moral of the story.... Carry as much gun as you can shoot accurately and conceal.

sequoia_nomad
09-19-2011, 7:18 PM
okglockman, what kind of IWB holster are you using? I realize you didn't use the word "comfortable" at all. I find the pancake style belt holsters to be the best compromise between comfortable and concealable.

RollingCode3
09-19-2011, 7:48 PM
Ruger LCP

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/cadetcode3/guns/IMG_1184.jpg

usmcchet9296
09-19-2011, 7:59 PM
The best of the best. :D

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7985/coltmustang.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/coltmustang.jpg/)

Yeah that is sick for sure.

sequoia_nomad
09-19-2011, 8:01 PM
With the waistband holster, you can conceal a full sized pistol in almost any situation. The development of holsters is phenomenal. So many ways to carry a full sized pistol with the least amount of clothes.

I realize can and comfortably are very different words, just wondering what people are packing full sized autos around concealed with. :pinch:

Toast
09-19-2011, 9:02 PM
Why carry a 22 when its just as easy to carry something thats more capable? A .380 or even a .32 is nothing to sneeze at and come in tiny guns.

davbog44
09-20-2011, 3:21 AM
I think that pocket pistols, mouse guns, whatever you choose to call them are weapons that have their place and uses. I tend to agree that a .25 or .32 in the pocket beats a .45 at home. However ......

When the carrying of a less capable firearm becomes a choice made for convenience rather than necessity, then IMO it becomes a poor choice.

As a general rule of thumb, I think you should choose an EDC that you would be comfortable using (if you had to) in a home defense role as well; something in the compact-ish size range like a Glock 19/23, M&P Compact, SIG P229, Commander size 1911, etc.

From there, having a smaller option for when needed is logical, as long as you don't let logical drift toward lazy.

tonelar
09-20-2011, 3:49 AM
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i202/tonelar/guns/380autos.jpg

My 3 pocket sized .380s. I carry them mostly to backup a primary (PM9, G26 or P228). However, I have slipped the Mustang Pocketlite into a cargo pocket around the home.

okglockman
09-20-2011, 6:35 PM
okglockman, what kind of IWB holster are you using? I realize you didn't use the word "comfortable" at all. I find the pancake style belt holsters to be the best compromise between comfortable and concealable.

I have about 10 different holsters for my glock... LOL. The IWB I was referring to was a belly band that makes it easy to conceal even in boxers and a t-shirt. I have pancake holsters, drop leg holster, shoulder rig. I'm pretty much set for carrying in any situation or environment...whether I'm wearing a suit or shorts and t-shirt. There are instances such as the work place where my glock is too bulky to conceal because of the "tucked in shirt" dress code. In this instance, I'll carry my Kel-Tec PF9 in the pocket or boot. (Not able to draw as quickly from the pocket or boot, so I'd likely move for cover prior to going on the offensive. I've trained for multiple situations utilizing different strategies..

okglockman
10-12-2011, 6:49 PM
Nice selection of weapons. Beretta has come out with the .380 Nano.... I'm going to check it out.... it may be my next small gun purchase..

paul0660
10-12-2011, 6:56 PM
a small piece is better than the hogleg that's home in your safe

This is never going to be..........false.


The only problem is that it is probably cheaper to kill someone than to wound them. Sad, but, I think, true.

Bug Splat
10-12-2011, 7:17 PM
This is never going to be..........false.


The only problem is that it is probably cheaper to kill someone than to wound them. Sad, but, I think, true.

100% true. A family member who was a Sheriff and detective said if you have to shoot someone make sure they are dead. He has told me countless stories of a homeowner who shoots a BG, once, wounding him. BG sues homeowner, gets zero jail time and a huge payoff. Homeowner is no longer a homeowner and ends up paying the scumbag forever. This has even broken up families from the financial stress.

If someone is worth shooting once, they are worth shooting 10+ times. keep shooting until the threat is stopped (ie, he stops twitching).

okglockman
12-06-2011, 9:36 PM
you can never go wrong making sure the BG is dead... lol

walter
12-07-2011, 7:20 AM
Either way can't their family sue?

RedFord150
12-07-2011, 2:06 PM
Either way can't their family sue?

The lack of witnesses (Dead BG) makes it hard to win the lawsuit. The only witness is going too be the shooter and you can bet he saw 'Imminent Threat of Death or serious Bodily Injury' before he pulled the tigger.

FWIW, I keep a Bersa Thunder in .380 as my 'Travel Gun'. My chosen HD round is Cor-Bon DPX JHP's. Yes, my .357 mag and .45 acp are much better choices. They just take up a lot more room. The Bersa is small enough and yet still fairly accurate and 100% reliable. Keep the distance short and put the rounds in the right places...

okglockman
12-07-2011, 6:45 PM
I keep a Kel-Tec PF-9 handy with me now.... seems to be a good shooting gun so far....and no jams or failures with 600 rounds through her..