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AeroEngi
09-14-2011, 2:24 PM
Hey guys, I was curious as to what handgun stance and hold calgunners use and prefer. I wanna hear from each of you of what hold you use and why you use it. A majority of the time I use the Weaver hold but occasionally I'll use the Isosceles hold just to get familiar with both.

gorenut
09-14-2011, 2:28 PM
I think both have their time and place, but I mostly shoot isosceles because its what I was taught and what felt the most consistent for me.

mrkam
09-14-2011, 2:30 PM
Center Axis Relock. I'm not in an debating mood, so I'm not going to try to defend it against other's opinions. I just really like the feel of it, it works for me.

003
09-14-2011, 2:34 PM
I remember reading a very fascinating/interesting interview with Jack Weaver himself, where he said that the specific details of the grip and stance were not nearly as important as using a good two hand grip and getting lots of practice. While I suspect lots of “instructors” will try to convince their students that one or the other is better, it has been my experience that I do equally well with both.

To me it is a little like hearing that my slide release is no longer to be used to release the slide, and that I should grip the rear of the side, pull it back a fraction letting it slam forward. That to me is a silly waste of time and motion, but then of course the way we have been doing it for 90 years is wrong, and the new way is the only way.

Now this should get a few comments.

POLICESTATE
09-14-2011, 2:38 PM
I go with weaver because it's comfortable for me, I don't like the isosceles myself.

Also on a locked-back slide I use the slide release, I don't pull the slide to chamber a fresh magazine. That's kind of dumb IMO :P

AeroEngi
09-14-2011, 2:41 PM
I remember reading a very fascinating/interesting interview with Jack Weaver himself, where he said that the specific details of the grip and stance were not nearly as important as using a good two hand grip and getting lots of practice. While I suspect lots of “instructors” will try to convince their students that one or the other is better, it has been my experience that I do just as well with both.

To me it is a little like hearing that my slide release is no longer to be used to release the slide, and that I should grip the rear of the side, pull it back a fraction and letting it slam forward. That to me is a silly waste of time and motion, but then of course the way we have been doing it for 90 years is wrong, and the new way is the only way.

Now this should get a few comments.

Thanks for the info and you are correct about one not being better than the other but that wasn't my intention for creating this thread. I just want to get an idea of what people prefer and why.

MountainMike
09-14-2011, 2:46 PM
Just point and click.

Grumpyoldretiredcop
09-14-2011, 2:49 PM
I tend to use Weaver and CAR when in a training course or if, heaven forbid, in a real incident.

For competition (USPSA) I'm turning more and more to Isosceles as combined with a parallel thumb grip I have better recoil control and, hence, speed.

shooterfpga
09-14-2011, 2:50 PM
isosceles, it was good for magnum pi, its good for me.

esartori
09-14-2011, 2:59 PM
isosceles. I used to use weaver but I find a shoot better (faster) with isosceles

HighLander51
09-14-2011, 2:59 PM
competition

http://www.californiavtxriders.com/phpBB3/gallery/image35199.jpg

PRCABR4Christ
09-14-2011, 3:01 PM
Weaver/modified weaver....

mackey
09-14-2011, 3:01 PM
Iso was the way I was taught and makes the most sense as to why it's taught.

Though I think grip is just as if not more important than stance in which case I use the thumbs forward grip

DVSmith
09-14-2011, 3:04 PM
Modified weaver. Just feel right. Not sure why, but it works for me.

Speedpower
09-14-2011, 3:10 PM
I go with weaver because it's comfortable for me, I don't like the isosceles myself.

Also on a locked-back slide I use the slide release, I don't pull the slide to chamber a fresh magazine. That's kind of dumb IMO :P

A lot of modern guns nowadays does not have a slide release, that is why it's called a slide lock!

DVSmith
09-14-2011, 3:17 PM
A lot of modern guns nowadays does not have a slide release, that is why it's called a slide lock!

GLOCKs have a slide lock that keeps the slide on the pistol and when pushed down allows the slide assembly to be removed.

They have a slide stop lever that stops the slide from moving forward when the slide is cycled with an empty magazine in the pistol and the lever also has an external piece that allows the user to manually set the slide in that position and release it from that position.

Terminology is so confusing sometimes! LOL

corvetteguy
09-14-2011, 3:19 PM
I use weaver because it it virtually the same stance when transitioning to rifles and shotguns. Grip, I use fingers on fingers, thumbs on thumbs. When combined these two work well for me and my pursuit of becoming a certified Handgun Combat Master.

Moto4Fun
09-14-2011, 3:29 PM
I rock the Phat Bammer stance mostly!

When at the range I usually go with something between the Weaver and Isosceles. Typically I will have the upper body close to an Isosceles stance, while my feet may be more like a Weaver. I like have a foot back, but my hips and shoulders are generally squared towards the target.

BigDogatPlay
09-14-2011, 3:30 PM
I think both have their time and place, but I mostly shoot isosceles because its what I was taught and what felt the most consistent for me.

^^^ This ^^^ other than I predominately shoot Weaver.

AeroEngi
09-14-2011, 3:48 PM
I use weaver because it it virtually the same stance when transitioning to rifles and shotguns. Grip, I use fingers on fingers, thumbs on thumbs. When combined these two work well for me and my pursuit of becoming a certified Handgun Combat Master.

Do you put one thumb on top of the other parallel or do you "cross" them?

MrExel17
09-14-2011, 3:48 PM
I always try to shoot isosceles when I have a new handgun just to feel for it, but more comfortable at the weaver stance.

MudCamper
09-14-2011, 3:49 PM
Bazillionth thread on stance/grip. Gives me a chance to repost this classic photo!

http://www.paul.net/guns/images/wwii_gi_pistol_m1911.jpg

tacticalcity
09-14-2011, 3:51 PM
I spent years training on the modified weaver. Which works really great when moving. So when I doubt I run home to momma. However, I have spent a lot of time working on Isosolese over the past couple of years. I love both. Both have times when they work best and the other only sorta works.

AeroEngi
09-14-2011, 3:54 PM
I spent years training on the modified weaver. Which works really great when moving. So when I doubt I run home to momma. However, I have spent a lot of time working on Isosolese over the past couple of years. I love both. Both have times when they work best and the other only sorta works.

So you suggest that I continue to train with both?

dagger10k
09-14-2011, 3:54 PM
I use the modified Isosceles stance because it's better.

Lead Waster
09-14-2011, 4:03 PM
I use the Iscoceles because I see competitive shooters using it, or something like it.

Honestly I don't know which one is better and having nothing else to base it on, that's what I did. I used to use an ineffective Weaver-like stance, but I was just guessing at it. Yes, I know, I should take lessons. I don't even know if I'm doing Iscoceles correctly.

Black Majik
09-14-2011, 4:05 PM
Modified isosceles.

AeroEngi
09-14-2011, 4:07 PM
I use the Iscoceles because I see competitive shooters using it, or something like it.

Honestly I don't know which one is better and having nothing else to base it on, that's what I did. I used to use an ineffective Weaver-like stance, but I was just guessing at it. Yes, I know, I should take lessons. I don't even know if I'm doing Iscoceles correctly.

Not sure if you've seen this but it might help. You have to scroll to approximately the middle of the page and it talks about the Weaver and Isosceles stance.

http://www.azccw.com/marksmanship.htm

Write Winger
09-14-2011, 4:15 PM
I arch my back pull my head back as far as it will go like I'm trying to get my face as far away from the gun as possible :D

corvetteguy
09-14-2011, 4:28 PM
Do you put one thumb on top of the other parallel or do you "cross" them?

I put my suport side thumb over my firing side thumb, but I keep my thumbs up very high.

weinerd
09-14-2011, 5:04 PM
I was taught isosceles, but then again I was taught "supporting hand thumb wrapped around shooting hand" grip learning on a revolver, and I don't think they teach that grip anymore even with a revolver in case someone picks up a semi-auto, puts their thumb back there by habit, and has the knuckle ripped open by the slide...

Nowadays it's a Weaver or Chapman stance for me.

Massan
09-14-2011, 5:42 PM
Varies. If I'm wearing gear it's isoceles. No gear then modified iso or weaver.

AeroEngi
09-14-2011, 7:26 PM
Varies. If I'm wearing gear it's isoceles. No gear then modified iso or weaver.

Why does it matter if you're wearing gear or not?

shooterfpga
09-14-2011, 8:22 PM
Why does it matter if you're wearing gear or not?

uh because gear is bulky. try shooting an m16 with an otv the lop increases and is cumbersome. i removed my neck gator/throat protector because i hate it. dont get me wrong sometimes its useful, but ill take mobility over too much protection.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Dave Sauer
09-14-2011, 8:23 PM
Hold the gun and stand however you need to to make the shot in the situation you are in.

SIGSHOOTR
09-14-2011, 8:26 PM
Mod Iso- cuz it works for me.

CK_32
09-14-2011, 8:59 PM
I have to say other.

Mclovin kill shot style.

http://www.belch.com/img/mclovin.jpg

I was taught by 8 navy seals, Bear Grills and Bruce Lee all in one session. They all agreed this was the best way.

Chuck Norris made an appearance but its Chuck Norris.. Come on.. he doesn't have time to school me ;)

He was just returning Bear Grills' dry cleaning.

InGrAM
09-14-2011, 9:43 PM
Modified Weaver.

Dark Mod
09-14-2011, 9:58 PM
To me it is a little like hearing that my slide release is no longer to be used to release the slide, and that I should grip the rear of the side, pull it back a fraction letting it slam forward. That to me is a silly waste of time and motion, but then of course the way we have been doing it for 90 years is wrong, and the new way is the only way.

Now this should get a few comments.

Someone please explain the wisdom of this to me, it seems completely retarded. I always thought the magpul dudes like to do it in their videos to try and look cool and tactical for the camera

The Virus
09-14-2011, 10:01 PM
video yourself shooting under stress, there is your answer.

Probably looks like Isos, with some funky footwork depending on where the target happens to be in relation to myself.

stacym
09-14-2011, 10:04 PM
Isosceles, but without the feel perfectly square. :/

five.five-six
09-14-2011, 10:05 PM
weaver works best for me when I am target shooting, Iso works best for me when I am shooting reactive targets for time, unless I am moving when I shoot, then it's back to weaver.. YMMV

kazman
09-14-2011, 11:27 PM
Started with Modified Weaver for a few years. Now do modified Isoceles. Feels more comfortable and versatile for me.

Massan
09-15-2011, 1:55 AM
Why does it matter if you're wearing gear or not?

If your wearing plates Iso presents a bigger armor face to threats since you only have a small side plate to cover your vitals if your shooting weaver(not to mention its uncomfortable as hell to have armor digging into your armpits). Also easier to transition from rifle-pistol since your stance doesnt have to change.

not-fishing
09-15-2011, 3:01 AM
Modified Weaver for IDPA / Combat shooting. mainly because of a long damaged shoulder joint

Dualist style for long shots (Bullseye)

http://content7.flixster.com/photo/11/55/40/11554057_gal.jpg

I just wish I was a little thinner when sideways

9mmepiphany
09-15-2011, 8:43 AM
Someone please explain the wisdom of this to me, it seems completely retarded. I always thought the magpul dudes like to do it in their videos to try and look cool and tactical for the camera
It is taught because it can be applied to various platforms regardless of the location of the slide stop.

It also accommodates shorter or injured thumbs. The overhand method is preferred to the sling shot method for the increased contact interface.

I usually start students in the Isosceles mostly because it has fewer force vector variables to correct. The modified Weaver is easier to teach...it is a hard style as opposed to a soft style...but gives up potential for speed and accuracy.

A well rounded shooter should be able to shoot from either and might even use both in any give COF.

A more important factor in shooting quickly and accurately is the grip being used

Dark Mod
09-15-2011, 12:10 PM
It is taught because it can be applied to various platforms regardless of the location of the slide stop.

It also accommodates shorter or injured thumbs. The overhand method is preferred to the sling shot method for the increased contact interface.



So then the only reason to do this would be if you dont know where your slide stop is, or have really short thumbs and cant reach it (or chose a gun that doesnt fit your hands).

All that wasted time and movement so that people dont have to bother figuring out where the slide release is?

Magpul just went down 2 notches in my book

toby
09-15-2011, 12:19 PM
Bazillionth thread on stance/grip. Gives me a chance to repost this classic photo!

http://www.paul.net/guns/images/wwii_gi_pistol_m1911.jpg

When you learn this art, you can be proud!.....:)

ZombieTactics
09-15-2011, 12:39 PM
So then the only reason to do this would be if you dont know where your slide stop is, or have really short thumbs and cant reach it (or chose a gun that doesnt fit your hands).
...
I think you are failing to understand the reasoning as to why this is the preferred method of many, many schools and not just MagPul.

It's preferred partly because it is a nearly universally applicable technique. It works with most handguns regardless where the stop/catch/release/whatever is located. I've never been in a class where anyone taught that using a slide-release is "wrong", only less universally applicable. Some manufacturers tell you it's NOT INTENDED to be used a slide-release for instance ... and on a few models the catch is almost unusable as such.

The technique is more robust as a whole because it provides a greater grip surface on the slide, under a far greater number of circumstances, than the thumb-fingers-slingshot method, for instance. It is less prone to failure as such under stress.

Along a similar line of reasoning, it involves more gross motor skills than fine motor skills when compared to any other standard technique.

Injuries and other factors are a consideration. You can overhand-stroke with a broken thumb and half your fingers missing. (I've actually witnessed a guy with no thumb and only two remaining fingers do it like a champ repeatedly)

It makes for one less "skill" to be learned and ingrained ... you release the slide using the same technique used to rack it, and the technique which is at the root of all standard malfunction clearances as well.

The extra 1/4 inch or so of spring compression DOES make a difference ... you gain significant force in that last little bit, which has a good chance of helping to avoid FTF problems with some ammunition.

There is no reason someone should NOT use a slide-release if that is the design of your gun and that opportunity presents itself. As a means of increasing your available toolset, you should not denigrate any other proven technique which works.

BigFatGuy
09-15-2011, 12:46 PM
Left hand/left eye: weaver
left hand/right eye: isco... icso... the squared off one
right hand/left eye: CAR
right hand/right eye: weaver (and badly, might I add... lord help you if you are next to whomever I'm shooting at if my left hand and left eye are hurt)

These are just what I found to be the most comfortable in my own experimentation. I'm sure at some point I'll settle down as I keep trying things.

Untamed1972
09-15-2011, 1:07 PM
I go with weaver because it's comfortable for me, I don't like the isosceles myself.

Also on a locked-back slide I use the slide release, I don't pull the slide to chamber a fresh magazine. That's kind of dumb IMO :P

Unless you're a lefty!

9mmepiphany
09-15-2011, 4:56 PM
So then the only reason to do this would be if you dont know where your slide stop is, or have really short thumbs and cant reach it (or chose a gun that doesnt fit your hands).

All that wasted time and movement so that people dont have to bother figuring out where the slide release is?

Magpul just went down 2 notches in my book
It major attribute is that it can be used on almost any semi-auto you pickup which has a reciprocating slide...I can only think of one exception...that is a major factor to anyone who is a serious student of the handgun. It is the genesis of the IDF's method of carry and deployment (Israeli draw) before they standardized on a single sidearm and the method used by Special Ops folks, like the SEALs, for the same reason.

As already pointed out, it is a method of operation which is easily adapted to an injured shooter and mirrors the movements used in clearance drills

Head416
09-21-2011, 8:40 AM
[snip]...It is less prone to failure as such under stress.

Along a similar line of reasoning, it involves more gross motor skills than fine motor skills when compared to any other standard technique...[snip]

It makes for one less "skill" to be learned and ingrained ... you release the slide using the same technique used to rack it, and the technique which is at the root of all standard malfunction clearances as well.



^ this is why I do it that way. The logic is that fine motor skills (like using fingertips to manipulate levers) go out the window under stress, and gross motor skills stay intact (like grabbing something with your whole hand and yanking it back).

ZT's point of it being the same as malfunction drills is also a great point that I hadn't thought of. Every time to you need to move a slide you do it the same way. Hand over top, yank it back. Under stress, you have no capacity to think so simplicity is your friend.

Matt P
09-21-2011, 10:09 AM
My question if you are using fine motor skills vs gross as your example, then what would you consider pressing the trigger as a fine or gross skill? How about pressing off, sliding off the safety on a handgun when presenting out of the holster if so equipped? Fine or gross movement?
Reasons to use slide release-
-It simply is faster to restoring your support grip then hand over. Watch most of the IPSC/UPSA competitors and what they use. Yes, of course I would use them as an example. Former Delta and now Instructors also encourage it. Is there any branch of the service that would be a better example of use of lethal force in actual encounters? Hopefully we can all agree its speed and accuracy that will help you the very most in stopping a threat.
-Try using the sling shot/overhand method when you have a shock buff in place.
Advantages
-When trying to avoid releasing a slide on a empty, or unloaded nice 1911, or other custom pistol
- With some handguns, it takes an insane amount of force to release, or they have miserable little levers.

So, reasons to do it either way. I focus on using and teach the release of the lever.
Just my opinion.

Modified Iso for me. Tried all the others.
Remember accuracy and speed with a handgun demands as much consistant use of technique as possible. If you are changing in-between techniques with training, along with practicing everything else one needs to develop, then it MAY make it that much harder to do it well when you may really need it.
Remember, many agree that you will be half as good as your worst day on the range, in an actual event.
All the above just my opinion.

Red Devil
09-21-2011, 12:58 PM
Modified Weaver...

Easier to keep the muzzle down on the G23, ...and allows a natural flip for the S/A Blackhawk.

Feet move that way... the arms just naturally follow.

billybob_jcv
09-21-2011, 1:13 PM
+1 :D You beat me to the McLovin!!



I have to say other.

Mclovin kill shot style.

http://www.belch.com/img/mclovin.jpg

I was taught by 8 navy seals, Bear Grills and Bruce Lee all in one session. They all agreed this was the best way.

Chuck Norris made an appearance but its Chuck Norris.. Come on.. he doesn't have time to school me ;)

He was just returning Bear Grills' dry cleaning.

starsnuffer
09-21-2011, 1:30 PM
Whatever the silly looking guys in the competition sports aren't doing.

Seriously though, I find myself doing both, and combinations thereof. I always practice with one hand, weak hand, ect, and I change my feet around.

I wish "practical" competitions put more emphasis on shooting on the move from cover to cover and less on rushing to a static position, staying in the open for a long period of time, and then rushing to another static position. . . but hey, what do I know.

-W

glockman19
09-21-2011, 2:52 PM
For me it depends on the situation...Both Weaver and Isocoles have their place...but...what if you're not standing?

mif_slim
09-21-2011, 2:58 PM
I voted for all 3 because the option let us. :D

aermotor
09-21-2011, 3:04 PM
I use the Weaver and a solid two hand overlapping grip. Strong hand thumb over the top of my weak hand thumb and both thumbs pointing downrange with the gun. Weak hand fingers locking in my strong hand knuckle grooves. My shooting has drastically improved since switching to this grip and it feels very natural and sturdy for me now.

AeroEngi
09-21-2011, 3:10 PM
I use the Weaver and a solid two hand overlapping grip. Strong hand thumb over the top of my weak hand thumb and both thumbs pointing downrange with the gun. Weak hand fingers locking in my strong hand knuckle grooves. My shooting has drastically improved since switching to this grip and it feels very natural and sturdy for me now.

Now that I definitely cannot do. I usually have my weak hand thumb "crossed" over my strong hand thumb but near the thumb tips (pad of weak hand thumb is crossed over the nail of my strong hand thumb).

aermotor
09-21-2011, 3:23 PM
The important thing is, you want your weak hand palm pressed firmly against the grip of the gun. I bet if you practiced you could do it and it would be a lot more confortable and stable than what you're currently doing.

Try pressing your weak hand palm against the frame and don't have your strong hand thumb wrapped around at all at first, once your weak hand palm is against it good, wrap your strong hand around the back of the gun and over your weak hand, or just barely resting on top of it.

I think a lot of people miss the importance of the weak hand and try to just muscle it with their strong hand leaving their weak hand doing almost nothing for the grip.

Gryff
09-21-2011, 3:25 PM
Isoceles. I think it's superior for recoil control and target transitions.

Akers
09-21-2011, 3:26 PM
Weaver, but control the weapon with my wrapped hand. It allows me to have more consistence and controlled trigger pull.

BigFatGuy
09-21-2011, 3:29 PM
You know what sucks? when your hands are so big that you simply cannot get good contact between your weak hand and the grip, because so little of it shows through...

my thumbs never seem to fit right either. Best I've found so far is one forward, one crossed over pointing up.

aermotor
09-21-2011, 3:31 PM
Weaver, but control the weapon with my wrapped hand. It allows me to have more consistence and controlled trigger pull.

Great point. I need tobe more aware of this when I'm shooting.

The strong arm is the foundation on a pivot and the weak arm is what moves it all. Trying to move/aim with your strong arm causes it to tense up and messes with consistent trigger pull.




You know what sucks? when your hands are so big that you simply cannot get good contact between your weak hand and the grip, because so little of it shows through...

my thumbs never seem to fit right either. Best I've found so far is one forward, one crossed over pointing up.

Would like to see a picture of your grip of possible to try and help you. it sounds like you have the same issues as the guy I responded to above. You shouldn't be trying to fill any gap, your weak hand should be solid against the frame and your strong hand should come around it.

Matt P
09-21-2011, 4:29 PM
Todd Jarrett says, for grip do it this way! Press ME! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48)

I and many others feel Tood explains grip in a very simple and effective way.

Bug Splat
09-21-2011, 4:41 PM
Modified Weaver with thumbs on top and pointing forward. I also agree that your grip is more important than your stance. You can't always control where you are standing in a fight. Could be on a 45* hillside for all you know. Keeping your grip consistent is the important thing.

9mmepiphany
09-21-2011, 5:16 PM
I usually have my weak hand thumb "crossed" over my strong hand thumb but near the thumb tips (pad of weak hand thumb is crossed over the nail of my strong hand thumb).
You're compromising the contact of your support hand on the gun

Mute
09-21-2011, 7:21 PM
I use Weaver and Mod Iso depending on how I'm shooting. I tend to use Weaver for longer shots and Mod Iso when I'm moving or trying to shoot fast.

Red Devil
09-21-2011, 7:46 PM
Todd Jarrett says, for grip do it this way! Press ME! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48)

I and many others feel Tood explains grip in a very simple and effective way.

I like and agree w/ what he says RE: grip.

...strait down the side of your leg and the front sight in line w/ the elbow.

If you bring that grip up over a boxer's stance... you get a modified Weaver.


You have to break your wrist and weaken your strong-side support to make the Isosceles work.

His weapon looks like it runs pretty soft and he's very good at the line.


This guy has hands like an Orangutan... an old Orangutan...

...but he's runnin' a G23 w/ 180 grain sunsonics.

Glock 23 ( Chapter 2 ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2YI6XYSSsk)

Shenaniguns
09-21-2011, 8:14 PM
Modified ISO, Thumbs forward grip.

aermotor
09-21-2011, 8:33 PM
Todd Jarrett says, for grip do it this way! Press ME! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48)

I and many others feel Tood explains grip in a very simple and effective way.

Yep. That's what I was trying to explain. Great grip, same one I do. Got it from reading a Chuck Taylor book.

Chron
09-21-2011, 8:39 PM
I shoot with the iso stance due to being cross-dominant. I am right handed, but left eye dominant.

Although, when I shoot left handed, I use the weaver stance. So I guess I'm a little bit of both. :)

BigFatGuy
09-23-2011, 8:46 PM
Would like to see a picture of your grip of possible to try and help you. it sounds like you have the same issues as the guy I responded to above. You shouldn't be trying to fill any gap, your weak hand should be solid against the frame and your strong hand should come around it.

Next time I get my hands on a pistol I'll try to take a photo... Can I assume you reversed the "strong" and "weak" in your last sentence? I don't think I've ever heard someone suggest holding the pistol in your "off" hand.

aermotor
09-24-2011, 5:07 PM
It is a little confusing. It should read "your weak hand should be solid against the frame and your strong hand thumb should come around or on top your weak hand thumb."

If you watch the video posted above it will clarify what I'm saying.

While holding the gun with your strong hand as you normally would, you want to press your weak hand palm all the way flat against the left side of the magwell. Your strong hand thumb should be up out of the way so you aren't trying to "fill the gap" that you talked about.

junkit_boy
09-25-2011, 1:12 AM
I have to say other.

Mclovin kill shot style.

http://www.belch.com/img/mclovin.jpg

I was taught by 8 navy seals, Bear Grills and Bruce Lee all in one session. They all agreed this was the best way.

Chuck Norris made an appearance but its Chuck Norris.. Come on.. he doesn't have time to school me ;)

He was just returning Bear Grills' dry cleaning.

I prefer the Johnny stance, the Daniel is just too silly
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6180093411_b9e4f6334e.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/55963290@N08/6180093411/)
karate-kid (http://www.flickr.com/photos/55963290@N08/6180093411/) by kaldi102 (http://www.flickr.com/people/55963290@N08/), on Flickr

reckoner
09-25-2011, 1:53 AM
I shot Weaver with thumbs-crossed for most of my life (I'm 32), but about a year ago I switched to Isoceles with thumbs forward and I haven't looked back - smaller groups, better recoil control, and faster follow-up shots (although some of that might also be because I'm shooting more these days).

I think the change in grip has had a much bigger effect on my shooting than the change in stance, though. It just gets harder to maintain that thumbs forward grip the more bladed my feet are.

pipboy
09-25-2011, 7:46 AM
When I first started, I shot weaver. Several years ago I migrated to a modified isoceles (which I now prefer for consistency reasons). It doesn't hurt to know and to be able to employ both.

locosway
09-25-2011, 8:25 AM
Shooting is an art and science which is always evolving. Weaver was great when people were shooting from the hip and not even using the sights. Weaver was the only stance that actually brought the gun up to the eye and used two hands for control. Historically it's important, but I believe it's time has passed. Iso is now the preferred method for competition shooting, which is where the Weaver stance originated in the first place.

Also, under stress and movement, I tend to see most shooters fall into a Iso stance, no matter what they've trained with before.

As for the slide stop, I tend to use mine out of habit. However, I teach people to use their support hand to manipulate the slide because it's universal to all semi-auto pistols. The only thing you have to worry about here is the Beretta where one could inadvertently implement the safety.

Vectrexer
09-25-2011, 9:24 AM
Left hand/left eye: weaver
left hand/right eye: isco... icso... the squared off one
right hand/left eye: CAR
right hand/right eye: weaver (and badly, might I add... lord help you if you are next to whomever I'm shooting at if my left hand and left eye are hurt)

These are just what I found to be the most comfortable in my own experimentation. I'm sure at some point I'll settle down as I keep trying things.

Have an ex-wife good for that last situation! ;)

Corbin Dallas
09-25-2011, 10:54 AM
Hey guys, I was curious as to what handgun stance and hold calgunners use and prefer. I wanna hear from each of you of what hold you use and why you use it. A majority of the time I use the Weaver hold but occasionally I'll use the Isosceles hold just to get familiar with both.


When you fight, do you get into a weaver stance or do you go to the fight as you were?


I ask my students this question all the time. When you are about to get into a fist fight do you change your stance or do you throw the first blow as you were?

Many of us are not commonly in confrontations of the physical nature on a daily basis. Ask ANY police officer who was recently in a physical fight while on duty and see if they remember where they were standing and the position of the assailant.

Humans are predators, hence the reason our eyes are forward and binocular. When the S hits the fan we react. There is no time to think, hmm... I better get into position before this begins.

Fighting with a GUN is no different than with your fists. Whether you are fighting for your life or playing a game, when the buzzer goes BEEP your brain will fall to zero and as such you WILL fall to the LOWEST level of your training.

Why isosceles is now taught at most academies:

-Forward facing is most likely how you will be positioned when go time arrives.
-Body armor. If you are wearing it you will have a larger section of protection over being bladed.
-Natural fighting stance. (Look at any sport. Anyone bladed there? Yes, sports are a battleground)
-Puts weight equally over your feet. More stable.
-Greater range of motion.

Bryansix
09-25-2011, 10:58 AM
It major attribute is that it can be used on almost any semi-auto you pickup which has a reciprocating slide...I can only think of one exception...that is a major factor to anyone who is a serious student of the handgun. It is the genesis of the IDF's method of carry and deployment (Israeli draw) before they standardized on a single sidearm and the method used by Special Ops folks, like the SEALs, for the same reason.

As already pointed out, it is a method of operation which is easily adapted to an injured shooter and mirrors the movements used in clearance drills

I watched Munich. They carried Beretta's and carried them loaded but without a round in the chamber. Then they had to rack the slide to chamber a round. Is this what you are talking about?



To answer the OP: I agree that one stance/grip is not for everyone. For one thing, this is not the military and we all have different model handguns. For another we all have our own quirks and even the military will allow some deviance from the norm if someone really needs it to shoot well.

I use ISO but I found that I shoot better standing straight as opposed to leaned forward with head tucked. I also grip thumbs over because it feel natural to me and has never caused any issues with follow up shots (not like the range I go to allows them anyways).