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olegk
01-27-2007, 11:22 PM
Hi guys,
It is time to move into 308 reload
If somebody can advice on set up you have for this (4 hole) press?
What difference between
Lee Pacesetter 3-Die Set 308 Winchester
and
Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set 308 Winchester?
Anything you can advice against making stupid purchases
I have the following:
1. Press
http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/%2706TurretPress.JPG
2. Powder measure
http://www.leeprecision.com/graphics/shoppingcart/AUTODISK.jpg

Thanks a lot.

C.G.
01-28-2007, 12:44 AM
Are you loading semi or bolt action?

jmlivingston
01-28-2007, 2:11 PM
I've got this same press which I've used for loading 9x18 and 9mm with, I'd be interested in any information on using it for rifle calibers as well (probably just .30-06 (bolt) and 5.56 (semi)).

John

olegk
01-28-2007, 4:58 PM
Are you loading semi or bolt action?
Semi-auto. Very basic load, nothing fancy for now.

wayoutwest
01-28-2007, 5:30 PM
I just completed my first batch of .308 rounds with that press with the 4 die turret. Once I had it bolted down to the bench it worked fine in my opinion. The handle feels a bit cheap, the indexed turret feature worked fine but I opted not to use it and deprimed my brass, then sized it, primed it without the index feature.

I also used the deluxe .308 die set, again in my opinion it worked very well but I cant compare it to anything else. I did have a problem with not enough lube on the FL sizing die and it got stuck and had to really fight to get the deprimer pin out of it. The neck sizing die worked great as well as the bullet seating die. I did use a wrench to slowly tighten the dies into the turret finger tight didnt seem like enough.

The powder measure I havent used yet, I used the dipper to measure out the powder and the beam scale worked fine but took a long time (could have been me though)

C.G.
01-28-2007, 5:33 PM
Semi-auto. Very basic load, nothing fancy for now.

If you are loading for semi you want a small base die set (as opposed to full length, which is for bolt action rounds and these may not function well in semi), for example:
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=681255
These dies are excellent, but the decapping pin is either weak or not designed properly; I broke one immediately as did others.

Fjold
01-28-2007, 6:12 PM
I've loaded on an older three hole turret press for over 25 years. I've loaded 9x19, 45ACP, 223, 7TCU, 243, 25.06, 308, 300WSM, 7mm Mag. etc. It will work fine.

The Deluxe sets come with a collet neck sizing die.

olegk
01-28-2007, 6:55 PM
Let me sumarize:
I need:
1.Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set 308 Winchester
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=148525
It doesn't have cript die.
I think I need one:
Lee Factory Crimp Die 308 Winchester
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=448813

2. Something for trimming the cases:
Lee Case Length Gage and Shellholder 308 Winchester
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=271467
Lee Cutter and Lock Stud
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=476992

3. For primering I am planning to use Lee hand primer.

Anything I am missing here?

Thanks

C.G.
01-28-2007, 7:39 PM
Let me sumarize:
I need:
1.Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set 308 Winchester
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=148525
It doesn't have cript die.
I think I need one:
Lee Factory Crimp Die 308 Winchester
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=448813

2. Something for trimming the cases:
Lee Case Length Gage and Shellholder 308 Winchester
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=271467
Lee Cutter and Lock Stud
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=476992

3. For primering I am planning to use Lee hand primer.

Anything I am missing here?

Thanks

Personally, I don't crimp, haven't found the need for it. If you have new or once fired brass you probably won't need to trim it for a while.

But again, as I stated in my earlier post, if you will be loading for semi you should get the small base die set or you may have feeding problems. See my earlier post.

This is about the small base dies:

RCBS Small Base 2-Die Set 308 Winchester

These dies size the body of cases somewhat smaller and set the shoulder back slightly more than a regular full-length sizer die in order to ensure proper functioning in semi-automatic, pump action and lever action rifles. Not recommended for ammunition used in bolt-action rifles.

Set includes Small Base Sizer Die and Seater Die. Shellholder sold separately.

And couple of reviews:

Review:
I recently loaded 500 rounds for my national match M1A using once fired brass. Once at the range, only 2 out of 5 would cycle. After resizing with the small base dies she now shoots and cycles like a dream. Small base dies are critical if you plan on loading w/ used brass in your tight chambered semi-auto.

Was this review helpful? Yes (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductreview.exe/helpful?ProductID=681255&ReviewID=10450&Helpful=Yes) | No (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductreview.exe/helpful?ProductID=681255&ReviewID=10450&Helpful=No)
34 found it helpful | 0 did not Charles Albrecht of Chandler, AZ

Review:
After learning that full length sizing was not the best for Semiauto rifles I purchased the RCBS SB die and have been delighted with the results. Misfires are at an all time low for my .308 reloads. The only complaint is that the company does not include a shell holder like the competition, and that will sway me away from RCBS in the future.

olegk
01-28-2007, 7:52 PM
Personally, I don't crimp, haven't found the need for it. If you have new or once fired brass you probably won't need to trim it for a while.

But again, as I stated in my earlier post, if you will be loading for semi you should get the small base die set or you may have feeding problems. See my earlier post.
Is it going to fit my Lee press?
Also deprimer rod quality concerns me.

C.G.
01-28-2007, 8:50 PM
Is it going to fit my Lee press?
Also deprimer rod quality concerns me.

According to Midway your press has standard 7/8 x 14 threads, so yes, it will fit.
I agree on the de-capping pin, make sure you adjust exactly according to directions.

BTW, I lied, there is a roll crimp on that die.

dw1784
01-29-2007, 3:06 PM
Hi guys,

What difference between
Lee Pacesetter 3-Die Set 308 Winchester
and
Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set 308 Winchester?


Pacesetter dies comes with a full sizer, crimp die and seater with roll crimper. This is what you need for semi-auto.

Lee Deluxe is the same as the Collet dies but with a full length sizer- a full sizer, a collet necking die and seater. Use this for both semi and bolt action.

from what I understand, crimping is good for semi-auto's because of the recoil from semi/full auto in box magazines. Some say crimping improves accuracy, consistancy, etc. Though I've read conflicting ideas, the concensous is over crimping is bad.

I've used neck sized brass in FAL and it works fine. Then again, FAL(and most mil service rifles) does have a generouse chamber. It might not work in a custom barreled AR10, for example. Cost really isn't a issue(dies), it's just the amount of work and brass life as full sized brass won't last as long. Call me lazy:D


I think a turret press will save u a lot of time. I like the idea of different turret heads for different loads. Die adjustments can be tedious and tiresome sometimes:)

Fjold
01-29-2007, 6:05 PM
I think a turret press will save u a lot of time. I like the idea of different turret heads for different loads. Die adjustments can be tedious and tiresome sometimes:)

+1, I have three different turret presses set up on my bench right now plus a Dillon 450B

olegk
01-29-2007, 8:13 PM
Pacesetter dies comes with a full sizer, crimp die and seater with roll crimper. This is what you need for semi-auto.

Lee Deluxe is the same as the Collet dies but with a full length sizer- a full sizer, a collet necking die and seater. Use this for both semi and bolt action.


This part confusing..
One of the them should be the neck sizing. Pacesetter?
Also, how full sizing makes chambering for semi auto more difficult?
If I have AR-10 semi, chamber might be more tight than generic military semi?

dw1784
01-29-2007, 10:52 PM
hi olegk,
not sure about AR10's as I've never shot one or compared brass from one. I am assuming the chamber(7.62NATO) will be cut generously so it can chamber all types of ammo under all kinds of conditions, even when it's dirty.

Regarding Lee products, Deluxe set=full sizing+collet die+bullet seating die.
Collet die sizes the neck only. Use the full sizing die to bump the shoulder to nominal dimension. Good for bolt actions because the brass is fireformed to the chamber of the rifle so you want to keep the same dimension. Good for brass because then neck is sized only a few thousandth of an inch. Good for the reloader because it's easier and less work.

Pacesetter Dies=full sizing die+bullet seater die+crimp die.
Full sizing brings the brass to nominal dimensions. Adjust the seating die to roll crimp and then use the crimp die to crimp(if you chose to crimp). For example, if you're loading M80 147gr FMJBT(as in std NATO7.62) you can crimp on the cannelure. Full sizing stretches the brass(brass gets bigger/wider and shorter sometimes, when it gets fired). Stretched brass requires trimming. Case deburring and chamfering is important(because of crimping). Once it's crimped, the ammunition can be jarred or bumped against the walls of the magazine during recoil, jumping off of rocks or let's say a tactical mag change when you drop the mag and reload with a fresh full mag. The ammo left in the dropped mag will be the same OAL because they're crimped.

hope this is better?:)

about your selection of trimming tools- unless you're doing small batches, the Lee cutter and case length gauge is ok for light use. Your fingers will get tired fast(especially if you're full sizing). Get a good trimmer like RCBS case trimmer. Or a drill adapter case trimmer. Trust me, 50cases on that Lee cutter and you will fingers will start to get tired; or get mad when the case slips out of the lock stud.:D

Whitesmoke
01-30-2007, 1:06 AM
OK....lots of opinions here...and here's mine.

If you can use a normal FL sizing die...you are better off. It is easier on the brass and the brass will last longer and will require less muscle on the press. I have both FL and SB 308 RCBS dies that I have used for my M1a. The SB are not needed in my rifle....

I would get regular FL dies.....

Next....if you are making plinking ammo, etc and your bullets have a crimp groove then no harm in roll crimping (I don't think you need the Factory crimp die in this application....I do use the Lee FCD on my 45colt reloads though).

If you are reloading match grade ammo for accuracy...then your match bullets probably won't have a groove....so don't crimp them.

I also use the Lee trimmer...but I use the adapter and use it in my cordless drill....works fine and fast (and cheap).

And as far as decapping pins breaking....no big deal...they cost about 10 cents each when you buy a 100 of them. And I've only broken 2 of them ever.

Just my opinion.....

Bladewurk
02-01-2007, 7:48 PM
Lee Deluxe set has BOTH Regular Die for semi-auto and neck-sizer if you load for a Bolt gun.
For a Semi you will only need Pacesetter,just go all the way down when you size and cam over a little at the bottom stroke!

Small Base dies are not needed and most new guys don't lube enough or too much and stick a case making a nice paperweight!
JMHO,blah,blah..

olegk
02-01-2007, 8:48 PM
Thank you, guys for input.
Going for shopping...

Gunsrruss
02-06-2007, 7:17 PM
I would melt down that Lee Press,or better yet I would send it to some one I dislike along with the dies......Go out and spend the money and ( at the least ) get an RCBS single stage press, and RCBS dies. Anyone who would tell you not to get small base dies for .308 if they are used in a simiauto is not your friend. send him the press and dies. I would say all simiauto cases need a small base die. My Lee dies just would not stand up to the demands put on them. RCBS will replace all broken tools or replace them free. If you have a bone for RCBS then buy a dillon 550B. Personnally I don't think you will ever get a good powder drop out of that Lee. I use a Pact dipenser and matching scale $229.00 The RCBS trimmer with 3-way cutter in 30 cal. Saves me so much time I watch Fox news and have to do honey do's around the house.

C.G.
02-06-2007, 7:29 PM
I would melt down that Lee Press,or better yet I would send it to some one I dislike along with the dies......Go out and spend the money and ( at the least ) get an RCBS single stage press, and RCBS dies. Anyone who would tell you not to get small base dies for .308 if they are used in a simiauto is not your friend. send him the press and dies. I would say all simiauto cases need a small base die. My Lee dies just would not stand up to the demands put on them. RCBS will replace all broken tools or replace them free. If you have a bone for RCBS then buy a dillon 550B. Personnally I don't think you will ever get a good powder drop out of that Lee. I use a Pact dipenser and matching scale $229.00 The RCBS trimmer with 3-way cutter in 30 cal. Saves me so much time I watch Fox news and have to do honey do's around the house.

+1.:) I am glad you spoke up, it seems I was in minority.

Gunsrruss
02-07-2007, 9:26 AM
+1.:) I am glad you spoke up, it seems I was in minority.

I bought all that stuff. Was making lots of money and still went the cheap rout. Stupid me. Now we are smart and buy the right things first. Honestly that Pact dispenser and scale, along with the RCBS electric trimmer and three way cutters saves me hundreds of hours of tedius work. When ever I can I pass this along. Some will listen and learn, and others will learn the hard way. I use my progressive Lee press as a single stage. I hand prime my brass using the RCBS hand primer. That way I can make sure the primer is atleast flush. I have had to pull down a lot of rounds before I wised up. Now I check every case when it is sized with a wilson gage. Take care,
Russ

olegk
02-11-2007, 1:49 PM
Bought the following:
148525 Lee Deluxe Rifle 3-Die Set 308 Winchester 1 0 1
448813 Lee Factory Crimp Die 308 Winchester 1 0 1
870920 Lee Double Disk Kit 1 0 1

Decided to do full length size for brass I bought and do neck only after that.
Lee Deluxe has both.
I have to keep separate brass fired from different rifles. My assumption that brass formed to chamber and don't need to be full length resized.

I found out that Lee Disk Charger gets inconsistent powder charge for Win 748 powder. Also it is 43-44 grains instead of 46 on 3.03 cc.
Great care should be taken to make all charging motions consistent to avoid big charge variation.
Another issue I noticed that AOL vary about .020 inch. I never seen such variation on pistol bullets. I think bullet batch I bought from gun show (was told it is Win) suck.
I did one batch with manual powder measure and one with AutoDIsk.
Will give shooting report next weekend.