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N_S
09-05-2011, 5:00 AM
I've been caught in a very uncomfortable situation.

Having just turned 21 I got my HSC and jumped on Calguns where found an excellent ad for a Sig from a user named Blondie and jumped on it. We showed up at an FFL and it turns out I needed a proof of residency which I was never made aware of. Not only that, it can't be just the last 3 months of bank statements either. They are very picky about this one.
Now this is a major thorn in my side because I really wanted the gun and more importantly the seller drove all the way across the bay to sell it so more than anything I didn't want to send him home empty-handed. But I had to concede that nothing could be done about the problem on the spot and we had to part ways.
:facepalm:

But the plot thickens. There is a distant possibility of making a second attempt on Tuesday. But it doesn't appear to be entirely clear to me what does and doesn't meet the requirements. Worse still, the obvious stuff isn't available. My car registration is way more than 3 months old. I pitch in for mortgage and utility payments but my name isn't on the bills. I don't have a mortgage and I don't have a deed to any property.
I was told that I could get my bank statement notarized by the bank, or something like that. Or I could run to city hall and ask them about it. Some document that I could run out and put together specifically for proof of residency. I'd have to be able to do it early in the morning Tuesday of course, since nothing is open today.

So what can I scrounge up in a day to meet proof of residency requirements?

cmichini
09-05-2011, 5:44 AM
Car registration in your name, with address that matches your license is the usual suspect.

Registration doesn't need to be 3 months old, who told you that? If so, then they're saying you can only buy a gun within 3 months of registering your car every year, which sounds like an infringement on your 2A rights and a good lawyer and calguns legal eagles need an email and phone call ASAP.

Unless you're saying your car registration expired more than three months ago. If so, get your car legal before buying a gun.


However, a quick glance of the DOJ site (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/resprf.php)
Pasted below:

Proof of Residency
Under Bureau of Firearms policy and soon to be proposed in regulations, firearms dealers may accept any of the following:

•Utility bill reflecting services to a fixed place of residence. The utility bill must bear on its face both of the following:
1.The name of the transferee.
2.Either the residential address declared on the DROS form or the address as it appears on the transferee's identification.

•Residential lease that bears both of the following:
1.The name of the transferee.
2.Either the residential address declared by the transferee on the DROS form, or the address as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID.

•Property deed the bears both of the following:
1.The name of the transferee
2.Either the residential address declared by the transferee on the DROS form, or the address as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID.

•Government-issued (city, county, special district, state or federal) documentation that has all of the following - - This does not include a drivers license or DMV-issued ID card:
1.The name of the transferee as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID.
2.The name of the transferee as the transferee declares on the DROS form.
3.The residential address of the transferee as it appears on the transferee's CDL or CID or the address update attachment to the driver's license/identification card.
4.The residential address of the transferee as the transferee declares on the DROS form.

•Examples of acceptable proof of residency pursuant to newly-proposed regulations:
1.DMV registrations are NOW acceptable.
2.Electricity, gas, cable bill from within the last 3 months.
3.Signed, dated and notarized rental agreement/contract.

•Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:
1.Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
2.Cellular phone bill.
3.Passport.
4.Pay stub.


If they don't abide by the above, maybe a call to the DOJ/Attorney General's office is in order. FFL's can't just make up laws to limit people's access.

Maybe try to find a different, reasonable FFL?

02Z29ZO6
09-05-2011, 5:49 AM
Your Registration just has to be current. If that's what the FFL is telling you, go somewhere else.

pablothelion
09-05-2011, 6:07 AM
N_S, ive been in the same predicament, I pitch in for rent with no official lease agreement or utilities under my name. my car reg doesn't show my address as I cosigned the vehicle with another family member.

my local FFL who I bought my pistol from actually suggested this - get a driving record printout at your local DMV.. if you can handle the wait and $3.00 or so.. you get a printout the same day - i forget the official DMV document #.. but as long as it shows the same address as your current DL, it is an official state document and should be valid as secondary proof of residency.. you can get it the same day, it's dated (so it shows it's less than 3 months old)

so if the FFL doesn't take that, as the other member said, do your business at another FFL.

good luck.

morrcarr67
09-05-2011, 6:28 AM
Here is a simple "room" rental agreement. Fill it out and take it with you as your proof.

http://housing.ucsc.edu/cro/pdf/rental_agreement-FORM.pdf

Decoligny
09-05-2011, 7:54 AM
Here is a simple "room" rental agreement. Fill it out and take it with you as your proof.

http://housing.ucsc.edu/cro/pdf/rental_agreement-FORM.pdf

Don't forget that it must be notorized.

BannedinBritain
09-05-2011, 8:12 AM
Don't forget that it must be notorized.

Negative...it doesn't have to be notarized. It could be written on a cocktail napkin...but a more formal looking form will avoid confusion. :D

taperxz
09-05-2011, 8:18 AM
Just a small sideline here. Now the the California Dept. of fish and game issues licenses via the internet and they are mailed from the Sac office, isn't the NEW license now from a government entity? Even if you did purchase one from big 5 or walmart, the electronic based system is run by DFG and now keeps a database of who has a license and who does not. I now buy my hunting and fishing license the same way i pay car registration. Go online punch in my name and F&G number pick what i want to get and then F&G sends it to me in the mail. NO different than the way a car reg. is done. Any thoughts on this from the RIGHT people here????

keenkeen
09-05-2011, 8:55 AM
Why would the FFL not just explain the proof of res that they would accept...tell you to bring it with you when you pick it up in 10 days?

That way the seller is on his way and you are clear on what you need?

Find a different FFL...

QQQ
09-05-2011, 8:59 AM
+1 to new FFL

Also, the PoR that I've been using with great success (since I'm also a renter with no car registered) is my HAM radio license. It's very easy and relatively inexpensive to get, and since it's issued by the FCC and has your name and address with an expiration date, it counts as a legal second PoR for handgun purchases. Of course, that's no guarantee that an idiotic FFL won't accept it, but I haven't had any problems so far.

N_S
09-05-2011, 9:17 AM
Here is a simple "room" rental agreement. Fill it out and take it with you as your proof.

http://housing.ucsc.edu/cro/pdf/rental_agreement-FORM.pdf
So wait.
I just fill this out without any real rental agreement and use it?
Don't I need to actually rent a property to do this?
Does it matter who the co-signer is?

keenkeen
09-05-2011, 10:34 AM
So wait.
I just fill this out without any real rental agreement and use it?
Don't I need to actually rent a property to do this?
Does it matter who the co-signer is?

Seems like you are making this harder than it needs to be...you said you have a valid car reg...just go to another FFL and get the deal done.

:chris:

N_S
09-05-2011, 10:43 AM
Just checked the car reg and it turns out it is in my father's name. So that's no good.

Gio
09-05-2011, 10:44 AM
Just to be clear, did you mention anything remotely resembling you are not a Citizen? Only time I see people use the 3 months worth of Utility Bills is when they are not a Citizen of the U.S. Sometimes gun shops are somewhat busy and hectic and something could of been misunderstood. So if you are a U.S. Citizen then the list above of 2nd Form of ID will be good enough to get you your Sig.

N_S
09-05-2011, 10:48 AM
Just to be clear, did you mention anything remotely resembling you are not a Citizen? Only time I see people use the 3 months worth of Utility Bills is when they are not a Citizen of the U.S. Sometimes gun shops are somewhat busy and hectic and something could of been misunderstood. So if you are a U.S. Citizen then the list above of 2nd Form of ID will be good enough to get you your Sig.

I am a naturalized citizen. The first gun I bought from the gun store I bought as a permanent resident, so that could be the confusion.
By second form of ID do you mean ANY ID? Because I have a DASB card from my college. Is that good?

Gio
09-05-2011, 10:57 AM
I am a naturalized citizen. The first gun I bought from the gun store I bought as a permanent resident, so that could be the confusion.
By second form of ID do you mean ANY ID? Because I have a DASB card from my college. Is that good?

It has to be a Government Issued card with your name and address on it in order to be used. Since you are a citizen you can choose from the list that was posted by cmichini.

tenpercentfirearms
09-06-2011, 6:00 AM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=327217

djleisure
09-06-2011, 9:36 AM
Why would the FFL not just explain the proof of res that they would accept...tell you to bring it with you when you pick it up in 10 days?

That way the seller is on his way and you are clear on what you need?

Find a different FFL...
Yeah, it's strange that your FFL wouldn't suggest this. I've even had a Turners let me do this. It would, in effect, give you about 30 days to get your proper docs in order.

N_S
09-06-2011, 9:45 AM
Yeah, it's strange that your FFL wouldn't suggest this. I've even had a Turners let me do this. It would, in effect, give you about 30 days to get your proper docs in order.

They can do that with handguns? I thought it was long guns only.

djleisure
09-06-2011, 9:52 AM
They did that when I PPT'd my Baby Eagle - they were very cool about it. As long as you bring the proper docs when you pick the gun up, you're good to go. Obviously it is up to the FFL though - I guess some aren't comfortable with it? I dunno, but I was happy that this particular Turners was cool about it.

N_S
09-06-2011, 9:53 AM
N_S, ive been in the same predicament, I pitch in for rent with no official lease agreement or utilities under my name. my car reg doesn't show my address as I cosigned the vehicle with another family member.

my local FFL who I bought my pistol from actually suggested this - get a driving record printout at your local DMV.. if you can handle the wait and $3.00 or so.. you get a printout the same day - i forget the official DMV document #.. but as long as it shows the same address as your current DL, it is an official state document and should be valid as secondary proof of residency.. you can get it the same day, it's dated (so it shows it's less than 3 months old)

so if the FFL doesn't take that, as the other member said, do your business at another FFL.

good luck.
I just called the DOJ and they said this is NOT a valid proof of residency.

tenpercentfirearms
09-06-2011, 2:00 PM
N_S, ive been in the same predicament, I pitch in for rent with no official lease agreement or utilities under my name. my car reg doesn't show my address as I cosigned the vehicle with another family member.

my local FFL who I bought my pistol from actually suggested this - get a driving record printout at your local DMV.. if you can handle the wait and $3.00 or so.. you get a printout the same day - i forget the official DMV document #.. but as long as it shows the same address as your current DL, it is an official state document and should be valid as secondary proof of residency.. you can get it the same day, it's dated (so it shows it's less than 3 months old)

so if the FFL doesn't take that, as the other member said, do your business at another FFL.

good luck.
You are only half correct. This works for Federal proof of residency, but the OP is asking about state handgun proof of residency. A DMV printout does not have an expiration date or a period of validity so it will not work for a handgun.

I would not take your DMV printout as handgun proof of residency as it is invalid.

taperxz
09-06-2011, 7:56 PM
Tenpercent, now that the new fishing and hunting licenses are from the DFG database, shouldn't they now be a legal document for residency? It's really no different than doing your DMV stuff online.

taperxz
09-06-2011, 7:57 PM
Heck you even have your own number now!

NorCal1911Fan
09-06-2011, 8:05 PM
Just have your father add you to the car registration. Cost you $15 I believe to have it done and gives you a new registration on the spot.

Cokebottle
09-06-2011, 8:10 PM
You've been here since 2008 and you didn't know that you needed PoR to buy a gun?

tenpercentfirearms
09-06-2011, 8:59 PM
Tenpercent, now that the new fishing and hunting licenses are from the DFG database, shouldn't they now be a legal document for residency? It's really no different than doing your DMV stuff online.

Yes later on in that thread I reply that the new DFG licenses have been confirmed to work for both.

morrcarr67
09-07-2011, 5:31 AM
So wait.
I just fill this out without any real rental agreement and use it?
Don't I need to actually rent a property to do this?
Does it matter who the co-signer is?

You stated that you pay rent and utilities to someone for a room. This form is a rental agreement for the room you rent. You have the person you pay rent to fill this out and it becomes your rental agreement for proof of residency.

I've been caught in a very uncomfortable situation.

Having just turned 21 I got my HSC and jumped on Calguns where found an excellent ad for a Sig from a user named Blondie and jumped on it. We showed up at an FFL and it turns out I needed a proof of residency which I was never made aware of. Not only that, it can't be just the last 3 months of bank statements either. They are very picky about this one.
Now this is a major thorn in my side because I really wanted the gun and more importantly the seller drove all the way across the bay to sell it so more than anything I didn't want to send him home empty-handed. But I had to concede that nothing could be done about the problem on the spot and we had to part ways.
:facepalm:

But the plot thickens. There is a distant possibility of making a second attempt on Tuesday. But it doesn't appear to be entirely clear to me what does and doesn't meet the requirements. Worse still, the obvious stuff isn't available. My car registration is way more than 3 months old. I pitch in for mortgage and utility payments but my name isn't on the bills. I don't have a mortgage and I don't have a deed to any property.
I was told that I could get my bank statement notarized by the bank, or something like that. Or I could run to city hall and ask them about it. Some document that I could run out and put together specifically for proof of residency. I'd have to be able to do it early in the morning Tuesday of course, since nothing is open today.

So what can I scrounge up in a day to meet proof of residency requirements?