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View Full Version : Can't Use Brown Change of Address Card Anymore?


PsychGuy274
09-04-2011, 3:36 PM
Some of my friends have been saying that some gun shops in the San Diego area won't honor the DMV change of address cards. They were saying something about ATF involvement?

Anyone hear about this or experience it? Something seems kind fishy. I call shenanigans.

BannedinBritain
09-04-2011, 4:05 PM
Some of my friends have been saying that some gun shops in the San Diego area won't honor the DMV change of address cards. They were saying something about ATF involvement?

Anyone hear about this or experience it? Something seems kind fishy. I call shenanigans.

This has been talked about somewhat extensively...ATF has "determined" the brown card does not meet the definition of "government issued" documentation of residence.

tallic68
09-04-2011, 6:16 PM
Where have you been. They havent taken the address change card for over a year.

ElvenSoul
09-04-2011, 6:27 PM
Get a dmv drivers report for $5.00 showing your new address.... legal gov't doc

PsychGuy274
09-04-2011, 9:12 PM
Where have you been. They havent taken the address change card for over a year.

I've purchased five guns in Cali in various gun shops with that card and I've never had a problem. That's why I was confused.

CHS
09-06-2011, 7:59 AM
Some shops will accept it, and some won't.

The ATF is inconsistent in their opinion on it.

Our examiner always told us not to take it since it's not "government issued" in the classic sense. It's just given to you for you to write in your own address on.

They want something from the government where the GOVERNMENT did the printing of your address.

However, not all ATF examiners are up on this so some shops still accept them.

Personally, I wouldn't count on always being able to use it and just have a qualifying government-issued and printed second form available.

Or just order a new license or ID card for $13.

djleisure
09-06-2011, 9:24 AM
Or just order a new license or ID card for $13.
...and wait 3-6 months for them to get around to sending it to you. :D

CHS
09-06-2011, 1:06 PM
...and wait 3-6 months for them to get around to sending it to you. :D

Or go to Triple-A, do a change of address, and have them print proof of it (like, a copy of your registration) on DMV paper.

There's really no excuse for most people to NOT have 2nd, 3rd or even 4th proofs of residency.

I've got a current DL, current ID, 2 current registrations (2 vehicles), and a current selective service document (printed out by the federal government themselves).

If I moved today, I could still buy a gun tomorrow simply after a trip to Triple-A. It's really not that hard.

chead
09-06-2011, 2:35 PM
I bought my first gun with the brown card (my license said San Jose, I'm now in San Diego) a little over a year ago. Subsequent purchases required an updated registration. Bills mailed to your home and addressed to you (power, phone) do NOT count in my experience.

Librarian
09-06-2011, 3:08 PM
I bought my first gun with the brown card (my license said San Jose, I'm now in San Diego) a little over a year ago. Subsequent purchases required an updated registration. Bills mailed to your home and addressed to you (power, phone) do NOT count in my experience.

That's peculiar. DOJ (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#33G) says What documentation is acceptable to demonstrate proof of residency for handgun purchasers?

Utility bill from within the past three months that bears on its face the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form

or
The individual's residential address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

"Utility bill" means a statement of charges for providing service to the individual's residence by either a physical connection (i.e., hard wired telephone connection or cable connection, or a water or gas pipeline connection) or a telemetric connection (i.e., satellite television or radio broadcast service) to a non-mobile, fixed antenna reception device.
Residential lease that bears the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form

or
The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification card, or change of address attachment thereto.

"Residential lease" means either of the following:
A signed and dated contract by which the individual (tenant)agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration for the right to occupy an abode for a specified period of time

or
A signed and dated rental agreement by which the individual (tenant) agrees to pay a specified monetary sum or provide other consideration at fixed intervals for the right to occupy an abode.
Property deed the bears the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form

or
The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

"Property deed" means either or the following:
A valid deed of trust for the individual's property of current residence that identifies the individual as a grantee of the trust

or
A valid Certificate of title issued by a licensed title insurance company that identifies the individual as a title holder to his or her property of current residence.
Current, government-issued license, permit, or registration, other than a CA Driver License or CA Identification Card, that has a specified expiration date or period of validity. The license, permit, or registration must bear the individual's name and either of the following:
The individual's current residential address as declared on the Dealer's Record of Sale (DROS) form

or
The individual's address as it appears on his or her California Driver License or California Identification Card, or change of address attachment thereto.

Examples of acceptable proof of residency:
Current DMV registrations.
Electricity, gas, cable bill with purchaser's name onit from within the last 3 months.
Signed, dated and notarized rental agreement/contract.

Examples of documents that are NOT acceptable proof of residency:
Hunting or fishing license (these documents are not issued by the government).
Cellular phone bill.

It's surprising how this is a problem for FFLs. Of course, the last bit on licenses is wrong - http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/ , F&G is certainly part of 'goverment' - so perhaps skepticism on the rest is understandable.

CHS
09-06-2011, 3:33 PM
That's peculiar. DOJ (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#33G) says It's surprising how this is a problem for FFLs. Of course, the last bit on licenses is wrong - http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/ , F&G is certainly part of 'goverment' - so perhaps skepticism on the rest is understandable.

What I don't like is that they explicitly state you can't use a DL or ID.

So someone who has BOTH can't use the DL for DROS and the ID as the proof of residence.

Such absurdity. Only a CA politician could come up with that nonsense.

ke6guj
09-06-2011, 3:49 PM
That's peculiar. DOJ (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dlrfaqs.php#33G) says It's surprising how this is a problem for FFLs. Of course, the last bit on licenses is wrong - http://www.dfg.ca.gov/licensing/ , F&G is certainly part of 'goverment' - so perhaps skepticism on the rest is understandable.
That deal about hunting/fishing licenses was from when you didn't get your license from F&G, you got it from Billy Bob at the bait shop. You showed him your license and he copied that info onto the fishing license. .gov didn't issued YOU the license, they just printed the blank license that they provided to Billy Bob.

If the DL itself isn't acceptable as POR, how is a document that a non-.gov person just copied your DL info off of and write onto the fishing license acceptable? I've even heard of some gun shops, when they figured out you didn't have acceptable POR, they would just send you over to the fishing counter onthe other side of the store to sell you a fishing license, which you would bring back to the gun counter to use as POR:confused:


Now that the fishing/hunting licenses are computerized, I think that they are deemed acceptable now.



What I don't like is that they explicitly state you can't use a DL or ID.

So someone who has BOTH can't use the DL for DROS and the ID as the proof of residence.

Such absurdity. Only a CA politician could come up with that nonsense.funny how a DL or ID issued by CADMV can't be used to prove your residence, but that that same agency can issue you a CA salesman license and that IS acceptable as POR.

medicdude
09-06-2011, 3:54 PM
i have a brown card and use vehicle reg for id, no problems in sac.

ke6guj
09-06-2011, 4:00 PM
i have a brown card and use vehicle reg for id, no problems in sac.
sounds like you are using the vehicle registration for POR, not the brown card.

osokne
09-06-2011, 4:30 PM
...and wait 3-6 months for them to get around to sending it to you. :D

Quick FYI... I just had mine replaced completely, after I moved. I was due for a new photo anyway and had to go into the DMV office to renew my DL, for the first time in 15 years.

My new license arrived in about 2 weeks, IIRC. There was some issue with the processing & creation of the cards, due to the recent anti-counterfeiting changes, that created the huge back-log. The gal at the DMV told me that they had worked through most of that and were getting them out much more quickly, these days.

Your "mileage" may vary.

medicdude
09-06-2011, 5:38 PM
sounds like you are using the vehicle registration for POR, not the brown card.
all i know is it works. my DL doesnt have my current address, hence my brown card. I give them DL and VR.

Pablo22
09-06-2011, 6:46 PM
Turner's in Corona does not accept it either, fyi.

ke6guj
09-06-2011, 6:52 PM
all i know is it works. my DL doesnt have my current address, hence my brown card. I give them DL and VR.

the trick is that you don't even need the brown card if your VR has your current address on it that you are listing on the 4473/DROS.