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View Full Version : Can I buy guns with my C&R at a "Guy Buy-Back" program?


John Browning
09-03-2011, 5:04 PM
We've all seen the gun buy backs where some tool takes a perfectly good M1 Carbine and turns it in for a $100 Best Buy giftcard. Is there any legal reason that I can't go there and offer to buy guns for my personal collection to those people bringing the guns to sell? I have a C&R FFL, and it seems that this would be much more legal than these buy back programs as long as I logged the sellers info into my bound book and didn't buy post-98 handguns.

I know it would probably result in some harassment from LEO, but just a question floating around in my head...

jaymz
09-03-2011, 5:08 PM
I'm fairly certain it'd be perfectly legal, but perhaps not worth the drama that could ensue as a result.

Cokebottle
09-03-2011, 5:11 PM
LAPD has a bad habit of hosting these buy-backs inside of gun-free school zones.

They aren't going to eff with their "customers"... but if you try to buy guns out from under them, they might.

That said, Pull-n-Shoot used to attend every buyback he could get to in San Diego that wasn't in a GFSZ and he saved quite a few C&Rs from the crusher.

SwissFluCase
09-03-2011, 5:17 PM
I think it would be a better idea to do free appraisals. I worry about some senior citizen living on social security turning in a $50,000.00 firearm and being kept in the dark by law enforcement. That would be elder abuse, and it would certainly be a good deed to stop it. The publicity might give the buy back a black eye in the process. Win/win!

Regards,


SwissFluCase

dfletcher
09-03-2011, 5:29 PM
If the buy back is being done inside a GFSZ the deal could always be completed outside the zone. I would think being careful to use your C & R for collection purposes only, and not engaging in the gun business, would be a primary concern.

Untamed1972
09-03-2011, 5:34 PM
"Can I buy guns with my C&R at a "Guy Buy-Back" program?"

Am I the only one who noticed the freudian-slip in the OPs title? LOL

Equis
09-03-2011, 5:40 PM
Am I the only one who noticed the freudian-slip in the OPs title? LOL

No I was about to mention it. Lozl. "trade in your husband for a newer, less farting model."

Anchors
09-03-2011, 6:00 PM
That said, Pull-n-Shoot used to attend every buyback he could get to in San Diego that wasn't in a GFSZ and he saved quite a few C&Rs from the crusher.

I am totally going to try to do this. We should make it an event here haha.

I think it would be a better idea to do free appraisals. I worry about some senior citizen living on social security turning in a $50,000.00 firearm and being kept in the dark by law enforcement. That would be elder abuse, and it would certainly be a good deed to stop it. The publicity might give the buy back a black eye in the process. Win/win!

Regards,

SwissFluCase

And THIS. This is something you can do even if it IS in a GFSZ. ("Hey, just so you know, you can go to the gun shop a block away and probably sell that for $2,000 and do it legally").

Am I the only one who noticed the freudian-slip in the OPs title? LOL

:p

GOEX FFF
09-03-2011, 6:28 PM
C&R long guns are C&C with pvt party to pvt party, so why would you need your 03FFL?

Pthfndr
09-03-2011, 6:45 PM
You don't "use" your 03 C&R license to buy anything - ever. YOU ARE licensed to collect curios and relics. That's why when you acquire a C&R firearm, no matter where or how, you have to enter it into your log book.

Mssr. Eleganté
09-03-2011, 6:59 PM
As has already been mentioned, having a C&R FFL wouldn't help you at all at a California gun buyback. Any California resident could buy the same 50+ year old C&R long guns that you could as a licensee.

But as a C&R FFL you do have the advantage of being able to travel to gun buybacks in other States and buying C&R handguns and C&R long guns of any age from the people waiting to turn them in. :)

Goosebrown
09-03-2011, 7:29 PM
"trade in your husband for a newer, less farting model."

OH F&$#! That's why my wife wanted to take me to one last week...

No more Mexican food!

Inoxmark
09-03-2011, 7:59 PM
I think you with your C&R might actually be at a disadvantage compared to a simple FTF, as you need to get seller's name and address so you can log the guns properly in your book. Seller might be unwilling to give you the info (no questions asked at the buyback!).

swilson
09-03-2011, 10:27 PM
I think it would be a better idea to do free appraisal.

Even though the police may not like it, I suppose you could stand next to the line or entrance holding a sign that says "Free Gun Appraisals", give those that ask a rough estimate, and point them in the direction of the nearest gun store or offer them a better deal than a $100 McDonalds gift card for grandpa's Krag carbine.

Norsemen308
09-03-2011, 10:43 PM
RyanAnchors lets do this!!

cash is king all you would have to do is buy for 140 cash and people be all over it....

Anchors
09-04-2011, 5:48 AM
I'm down man.

While the C&R won't actually help you in California. It might help you convince a sketched out person turning in a firearm (they obviously know nothing about them if they're at a buy back) that you aren't a gang banger trying to trick them (trust me, it is legal!).

The "Federal Firearm License" bearing an ATF endorsement with an accompanying California ID might put them at ease some...

Cokebottle
09-04-2011, 7:38 AM
I'm down man.

While the C&R won't actually help you in California. It might help you convince a sketched out person turning in a firearm (they obviously know nothing about them if they're at a buy back) that you aren't a gang banger trying to trick them (trust me, it is legal!).

The "Federal Firearm License" bearing an ATF endorsement with an accompanying California ID might put them at ease some...
But as mentioned, if you are licensed, it will be more difficult because they may be unwilling to release their contact information for your bound book.

Best way to do it is to have 2-4 people... one or two 03 holders to do the fishing, and one or two unlicensed to make the actual purchases.

jaymz
09-04-2011, 10:04 AM
Maybe Calguns should sponsor a buyback. We could refer the worthless junk to the next anti-sponsored buyback, purchase the firearms that are worth buying, sell them at a later date, then roll the profits into the next buyback and for CGF donations.

proclone1
09-04-2011, 11:11 AM
Definitely like the idea of volunteering [my amateur opinion] for free appraisals at a buy-back, if only to help inform average-joe from needlessly destroying good guns. Mix in some casual 2A education, hand out some flyers with further educational pointers, get some good PR going (bring your girlfriends/wives!) and help show that the gun-crowd are decent citizens just like them.

dantodd
09-04-2011, 11:28 AM
Why wouldn't you do this at a buy back in a GFSZ? Long arms are exempt from CA GFSZ laws and a cable lock is adequate for long guns per Feds. Someone comes up, give them a lock to put on the gun before giving to you to appraise/buy.

Cokebottle
09-04-2011, 11:34 AM
and a cable lock is adequate for long guns per Feds.
It is?

dantodd
09-04-2011, 11:36 AM
My mistake it's a locked gun rack or container.

Cokebottle
09-04-2011, 12:02 PM
My mistake it's a locked gun rack or container.
I knew the locked rack was cool... I was curious if you knew of a piece of case law that I wasn't aware of (which would not be surprising).

wolff
09-04-2011, 2:56 PM
The recent Shotgun News Commentary on Gun "Buy Back" programs made some excellent points. Here's a few Highlights:
* The term "buy-back" gives the mistaken impression that the Government owns the guns, and wants them back.
* Firearm serials aren't checked, nor are the weapons tested/examined for the possibility of having been used in a crime.
* During a Buy-Back event, multiple State firearm laws are broken by the Organizers but Police turn a blind eye 'because they do good for the community'... Firearm Statutes such as Possession, Transportation, Destruction and serial number reporting.

Crazy, huh?! I wonder...If sponsors and organizers don't need a special permit or license (even churches do them) or mandatory anything as far as I know, then why can't I organize a "Community Firearm Relief Day"(tm) and exchange food cards for firearms? I reckon my local church would pony up its parking lot for a Saturday, and local TV and radio would be glad to give free airtime!

Have a safe 3-Day weekend,

bradley wolff

Anchors
09-05-2011, 4:59 PM
But as mentioned, if you are licensed, it will be more difficult because they may be unwilling to release their contact information for your bound book.

Best way to do it is to have 2-4 people... one or two 03 holders to do the fishing, and one or two unlicensed to make the actual purchases.

True! "Fishing" lol.

Maybe Calguns should sponsor a buyback. We could refer the worthless junk to the next anti-sponsored buyback, purchase the firearms that are worth buying, sell them at a later date, then roll the profits into the next buyback and for CGF donations.

Great idea! Any FFLs on board if we throw them some extra cash for transfers?

SwissFluCase
09-06-2011, 10:54 AM
Here is what I am talking about:

http://www.firearmstruth.com/2010/bergen-county-gun-buyback-includes-potentially-valuable-guns

The tragedy we see is that a couple of the guns noted are worth far more than was paid out, and yet the firearms weren’t doing any harm.

This is elder abuse. It is stealing from the poor, the elderly, or those who have had their property stolen (or all three). Gun buybacks are illegal, and immoral. They need to be demonized for what they are.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

BigDogatPlay
09-06-2011, 11:30 AM
You run into peril at the very first gun you "buy back" that later turns out to be a reported stolen. A progressive thinking outfit, like the LAPD Gun Unit for instance, might think it sporting to ram you for receiving a stolen firearm.

The police can take those as an operation of law, although the "no questions asked" business ignores multiple felonies, but you as a private person could wind up in a peck of poop.

And for the 03 FFLs, to echo others above, I would guess that the overwhelming majority of "customers" at one of these events would be somewhat circumspect in revealing information for your bound book.

Anchors
09-06-2011, 9:17 PM
Good points BigDog.

That is why it would be cool to have a CGN buyback where we pay FFLs to do DROS for us.
I think I could convince someone to come to a gun shop and do a DROS from a buy back. Not many people, but some.

Munk
09-07-2011, 9:21 PM
I think every gun buy-back should have appraisers there to save people from destroying thousands of dollars worth of viable firearms in exchange for a pittance. The only ones that should go to the crusher are those that are beyond repair and which only draw their current value from their scrap content.

The recent Shotgun News Commentary on Gun "Buy Back" programs made some excellent points. Here's a few Highlights:
* The term "buy-back" gives the mistaken impression that the Government owns the guns, and wants them back.
* Firearm serials aren't checked, nor are the weapons tested/examined for the possibility of having been used in a crime.
* During a Buy-Back event, multiple State firearm laws are broken by the Organizers but Police turn a blind eye 'because they do good for the community'... Firearm Statutes such as Possession, Transportation, Destruction and serial number reporting.

Crazy, huh?! I wonder...If sponsors and organizers don't need a special permit or license (even churches do them) or mandatory anything as far as I know, then why can't I organize a "Community Firearm Relief Day"(tm) and exchange food cards for firearms? I reckon my local church would pony up its parking lot for a Saturday, and local TV and radio would be glad to give free airtime!

Have a safe 3-Day weekend,

bradley wolff


Would it be possible to find a "friendly" attorney general who'd be willing to press charges against the organizers of these events? I'd love to see an office bankrupted by these illegal practices.

lorax3
09-08-2011, 8:28 AM
I've been to gun buybacks and seen 50+ year old rifles/shotguns purchased from people on the street.

My only concern with such transactions would be stolen weapons. Granted, you run that risk with any cash and carry transaction.

The worst case scenario in my head plays out like this: You buy a Mosin from a guy at the buyback; the police observe this and stroll over to do a 12031(e) (loaded) check. While doing a loaded check the officers obverse the serial number and decide to go back to their squad car and run it.

The serial number comes up stolen and you are arrested for possession of stolen property and perhaps now a suspect for any crimes suspected with before mentioned firearm.

That being said, I still enjoy going to buybacks just to document all the folks illegally transporting firearms. In fact, more than a year ago I took photos at a local buyback with all sorts of 12025 violations. Photos Here (http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=3527411&postcount=52)

kemasa
09-08-2011, 8:34 AM
From what I hear, the police and others don't want people there who do not support what they are doing as it is political. I suspect it would not go over well if people were redirecting people and/or trying to buy firearms as the police and others want the numbers to show what a "good" job they are doing.

I wonder what it would take to get a press pass, perhaps for an Internet site :-).