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Markinsac
09-02-2011, 12:37 AM
From The Sacramento Bee, 9/2/2011

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/02/3879332/concealed-weapons-permits-jump.html

Sacramento County - 739 LTCs issued so far this year (as of 7/25), four times the number for 2010 - in 2008, only 12 issued based on 22 applications.

El Dorado County - 380 LTCs issued in the first six months of the year.

Congratulations to everyone who has helped make this happen!

Purple K
09-02-2011, 1:11 AM
Winning!

NotEnufGarage
09-02-2011, 5:44 AM
It would be a lot more if the initial appointment calendar wasn't clogged with fake appointments for people who never intend to show.

They need to add some kind of verification (phone, email) to the appointment system to stop the antis from filling it up.

mag360
09-02-2011, 7:14 AM
you think anti's are clogging the system? I'd never heard that before. Did you talk with a deputy? There's no reason why someone on calguns should still be waiting, we found out about this in november 2010.

Andy Taylor
09-02-2011, 7:21 AM
you think anti's are clogging the system? I'd never heard that before. Did you talk with a deputy? There's no reason why someone on calguns should still be waiting, we found out about this in november 2010.

It is apparently a know problem.

nosuchagency
09-02-2011, 9:17 AM
it'll take some time, but after seeing what's occurred in past 10 months, i'm optimistic that state will eventually get there. and major props to a pair of enlightened sheriffs. :cool:

Blackhawk556
09-02-2011, 9:17 AM
Are you kidding me?? Where did you guys hear the antis are clogging up the appointment system?? Source please

Flopper
09-02-2011, 10:26 AM
It would be a lot more if the initial appointment calendar wasn't clogged with fake appointments for people who never intend to show.

They need to add some kind of verification (phone, email) to the appointment system to stop the antis from filling it up.

Bump.

This needs more attention.

NotEnufGarage
09-02-2011, 10:35 AM
you think anti's are clogging the system? I'd never heard that before. Did you talk with a deputy? There's no reason why someone on calguns should still be waiting, we found out about this in november 2010.

It is apparently a know problem.

Where did you guys hear the antis are clogging up the appointment system?? Source please

Bump.

This needs more attention.

When I went in for my final appointment I asked the deputy handling it what was going on with all the false appointments and he indicated they were aware of the issue and were close to doing something about it, ie. contact a few people to let them know they were on to what they were doing and issue them a stern warning to cease and desist, else face numerous charges related to interferring with government administration, wire fraud, false statements to police, etc.

Don't know if they plan to do anything to clear out the bad appts, or if they even can, or to prevent it in the future.


Perhaps one of the CGF attorneys could submit a public records request to the Sac Sheriffs Department requesting the name, address, IP address, telephone number, etc. for all appointment where the appllicant didn't show? I'm betting the IP addresses will all be from public Wi-Fi spots, like Starbucks, Libraries, etc. or from some business or government office's Wi-Fi. It would be choice if it turned out to be done from a state owned computer, like at DOJ or such, in which case, I would think a big civil rights lawsuit would follow for denial of civil rights.

G60
09-02-2011, 10:42 AM
Interesting.

Blackhawk556
09-02-2011, 11:12 AM
From The Sacramento Bee, 9/2/2011

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/02/3879332/concealed-weapons-permits-jump.html

Sacramento County - 739 LTCs issued so far this year (as of 7/25), four times the number for 2010 - in 2008, only 12 issued based on 22 applications.

El Dorado County - 380 LTCs issued in the first six months of the year.

Congratulations to everyone who has helped make this happen!

How much does a county keep in fees once the state gets their share?? Let's just say $50
739 x $50= $36,950 extra dollars the county now has. Not bad.
12 x $50= $600 (2008)

Blackhawk556
09-02-2011, 11:18 AM
Interesting, I haven't heard of this before. No wonder people have to wait months for appointment

When I went in for my final appointment I asked the deputy handling it what was going on with all the false appointments and he indicated they were aware of the issue and were close to doing something about it, ie. contact a few people to let them know they were on to what they were doing and issue them a stern warning to cease and desist, else face numerous charges related to interferring with government administration, wire fraud, false statements to police, etc.

Don't know if they plan to do anything to clear out the bad appts, or if they even can, or to prevent it in the future.


Perhaps one of the CGF attorneys could submit a public records request to the Sac Sheriffs Department requesting the name, address, IP address, telephone number, etc. for all appointment where the appllicant didn't show? I'm betting the IP addresses will all be from public Wi-Fi spots, like Starbucks, Libraries, etc. or from some business or government office's Wi-Fi. It would be choice if it turned out to be done from a state owned computer, like at DOJ or such, in which case, I would think a big civil rights lawsuit would follow for denial of civil rights.

Glock22Fan
09-02-2011, 11:31 AM
Whether the streets will be safer or more dangerous with more CCWs is an open question, said Dr. Garen Wintemute, director of UC Davis Medical Center's Violence Prevention Research Project.


Dr. Wintemute, well known to us for accepting money for writing reports whose conclusions are at odds with the basic data studied, only thinks it is an open question because he has a closed mind.

NotEnufGarage
09-02-2011, 11:46 AM
How much does a county keep in fees once the state gets their share?? Let's just say $50
739 x $50= $36,950 extra dollars the county now has. Not bad.
12 x $50= $600 (2008)

The county keeps the $20 initial application, $57 from the Livescan and the $80 final processing fee, for a total of $157.

$157 * 739 = 116023

They were only taking initial appointments 1 day per week for the first few months of the year, then upped it to 2 days around March, I believe. I'd like to see them step that up to 5 days per week to clear out the backlog, or at least allow people to make a "standby" appointment to see if a spot opens up.

Both times I went they had their regular staff (Amber, 1 detective), plus one retired deputy filling out the application. I would think they could double up on the retired deputy and get twice as many done in a day. Or have the retired deputy just check the application the applicant filled out and if all is okay pass the them directly to the detective and save the 5 or 10 minutes sitting with the retired deputy in the storage closet.

Gray Peterson
09-02-2011, 12:19 PM
Don't know if they plan to do anything to clear out the bad appts, or if they even can, or to prevent it in the future.


.

Here's a simple solution: Eliminate the appointment system and just take applications and fingerprinting during normal business hours like most other states do.

Decoligny
09-02-2011, 12:22 PM
Are they requiring that you have the retired deputy fill out you application?
Izdon't think they can do that. The application is available on line and you should only have to hand it over and have someone verify that it is complete and then witness the signature.

vincewarde
09-02-2011, 12:26 PM
Dr. Wintemute, well known to us for accepting money for writing reports whose conclusions are at odds with the basic data studied, only thinks it is an open question because he has a closed mind.

I am a strong supporter of shall issue CCW, however Wintemute is not too far off. What we can say is that there are not a lot of problems associated with CCW holders (because we have a lot of stats on them).

It is much, much harder to isolate the effect of CCW permit policy changes because many other factors are involved. We can say that in most cases when CCWs are changed from May Issue to Shall Issue, crime rates dropped slightly. However, in many cases they were dropping before the law changed. In fact, one of the factors that really makes it hard to measure the effect of CCW reform is the aging of the Baby Boomer generation. As this population spike ages, they tend to commit fewer violent crimes.

Do I believe that CCW reduce crime rates? Yes, but proving it in a world full of variables is not easy. Although Wintemute is an anti, he appears to have enough integrity or wisdom not to spew garbage about the negative effect of CCWs when he can't prove it.

G60
09-02-2011, 12:51 PM
Anybody who looks at the LTC policies of New Hampshire and Nevada, and their respective rates of crime knows that crime is more complicated than 'will the streets be safer or more dangerous with more permits'.

RobG
09-02-2011, 1:32 PM
From The Sacramento Bee, 9/2/2011

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/09/02/3879332/concealed-weapons-permits-jump.html

Sacramento County - 739 LTCs issued so far this year (as of 7/25), four times the number for 2010 - in 2008, only 12 issued based on 22 applications.

El Dorado County - 380 LTCs issued in the first six months of the year.

Congratulations to everyone who has helped make this happen!

That number is considerably smaller than I would have expected. The number will hopefully grow once word gets out to the masses.

InGrAM
09-02-2011, 2:21 PM
It would be a lot more if the initial appointment calendar wasn't clogged with fake appointments for people who never intend to show.

They need to add some kind of verification (phone, email) to the appointment system to stop the antis from filling it up.

I feel like an idiot for not thinking about this.

jb7706
09-02-2011, 3:36 PM
I feel like an idiot for not thinking about this.

You are not alone.

Kid Stanislaus
09-02-2011, 4:30 PM
I feel like an idiot for not thinking about this.

ALL of you people who didn't think of it are idiots!! Uh.................hold on, wait a minute..................well...................uh. ..............truth of the matter is I didn't either! DANGIT!!:facepalm:

hoffmang
09-02-2011, 4:37 PM
I would be careful assuming too much truth to the rumor of stolen appointments. Some checks lead us to think it was inaccurate or old when it first surfaced about 2 months ago.

-Gene

Abenaki
09-02-2011, 5:09 PM
In Plumas county we have no interview.
That's the way it should be.

Ummmm....Maybe things will get better in time.
I hope so.

Take care
Abenaki

Gray Peterson
09-02-2011, 5:25 PM
I would be careful assuming too much truth to the rumor of stolen appointments. Some checks lead us to think it was inaccurate or old when it first surfaced about 2 months ago.

-Gene

The real problem here I believe is that the appointments are so far out that people are forgetting, or have last minute family emergencies. For example, one of my best friends in Sacramento scheduled an appointment for late May from January. Unfortunately, she had to take care of her wife (the wife is disabled) and couldn't make the appointment. It wasn't a situation where she could call.

This happens more often then one thinks. Sacramento needs to eliminate the appointment system entirely and just take walk ins. No one should have to wait a year for an appointment.

Dreaded Claymore
09-02-2011, 5:31 PM
This happens more often then one thinks. Sacramento needs to eliminate the appointment system entirely and just take walk ins. No one should have to wait a year for an appointment.

A thousand times, yes.

Paladin
09-02-2011, 9:20 PM
Here's a simple solution: Eliminate the appointment system and just take applications and fingerprinting during normal business hours like most other states do.
Gray, wasn't there someway of getting most of this done online? IIRC, some CGNers were involved w/helping a sheriff do this (D'Agostini in El Dorado County?).

Gray Peterson
09-02-2011, 10:11 PM
Gray, wasn't there someway of getting most of this done online? IIRC, some CGNers were involved w/helping a sheriff do this (D'Agostini in El Dorado County?).

That was Sheriff Candidate Jim Cooper. El Dorado doesn't have the volume processing for it, and on top of that, in hindsight, the current state application is problematic for an online system. The application itself needs to be a lot less complicated than the 19 pages of crap the app is. The more pages and the more questions and potential answers that can be given, the more likely it requires greater automation and therefor potential points of failure.

Post-Carry at SCOTUS, post-Richards/Peruta, and post-application revision.

epilepticninja
09-02-2011, 10:45 PM
That number is considerably smaller than I would have expected. The number will hopefully grow once word gets out to the masses.

You have to tally in the PITA factor. Between the visits to the S.D., training, B.I., Livescan, fees, etc., that turns alot of people off who are riding the fence on getting one.

RP1911
09-03-2011, 9:27 AM
It's about 105+ LTCs per month. Not too shabby considering the schedule for receiving and processing. At this rate 1260+ this year. once they figure out the income and further streamiline the process, we could see increases.

Even with all the articles, I run into gunowner friends who used to have LTCs and they are still not aware that they can now apply and obtain one. They still won't get off their butts and apply.

5thgen4runner
09-03-2011, 9:30 AM
I should get my app going I took the 16 hr course 3 weeks ago.

mag360
09-03-2011, 11:24 AM
yes, yes you should. I set my appt in january 2011, had interview in june, permit by july.

hoffmang
09-03-2011, 11:50 AM
Even with all the articles, I run into gunowner friends who used to have LTCs and they are still not aware that they can now apply and obtain one. They still won't get off their butts and apply.

Our own laziness is our worst enemy.

-Gene

hutnful76
09-03-2011, 12:05 PM
I had my ccw interview the other day and they ran me through the ringer! did anyone else experience this?

Gray Peterson
09-03-2011, 1:01 PM
I had my ccw interview the other day and they ran me through the ringer! did anyone else experience this?

Explain

adrenaline
09-03-2011, 1:12 PM
Yes please explain. I have a clean record and it was much more pleasant than I expected. It seemed like they were pleased issuing a license to me. Do you have a history?