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Jake71
09-01-2011, 4:44 PM
in imminent danger?

It appears that my license plates and reported coming/goings of the two drug dealers on our dead end street have resulted in lowering of their bottom line/profit margin.

They do know it's me due to being pointed out at a community watch meeting by a kid who snuck over to see what it was all about.

I was informed that they are connected to a larger drug dealer/bossman a couple streets over and that it's a larger operation than I'm seeing.

Is there a code that allows me to carry while we are walking our dogs around the neighborhood?

I'm not really looking forward to getting shot during a driveby (which does happen in our area).. but we have to walk our dogs.. (1 German shepherd and 1 husky mix).

Pomona... the only city I know of that has had a Sherrif gunned down on the courthouse steps by gangbangers.

Moving is not an option at this point.

My neighbor who spoke with an undercover officer she's friends with said wiht some tears in her eyes to be carefull and didn't want to say much else.

dantodd
09-01-2011, 4:49 PM
Regardless of any other actions you need to apply for a 12050 lisence to carry a concealed weapon ASAP.

Anchors
09-01-2011, 4:51 PM
Wow dude.
You're at the point that maybe you should consider not walking the dog, but exercising your discretion to protect your life...
I would say you are reasonably in fear for your life/great bodily injury...but that is just me. You have to do what you have to do...

Regardless of any other actions you need to apply for a 12050 lisence to carry a concealed weapon ASAP.

+1

Jake71
09-01-2011, 4:55 PM
Regardless of any other actions you need to apply for a 12050 lisence to carry a concealed weapon ASAP.

Im on the edge of LA County.

Does anyone know a good representative/lawyer who can help draft up a good cause statement?

thanks for not giving me a lot of grief over it.

Gang/Drug taskforce supervisor just emailed me to get my contact info and talk to me.

I support Police 110% despite the bad apples but have had converations with them and I pointed out that I know they can't be outside my door 24/7 and they agreed.

blazeaglory
09-01-2011, 4:56 PM
If your in fear of your life, do what you need to do. Laws be damned.

Big Jake
09-01-2011, 5:00 PM
If your in fear of your life, do what you need to do. Laws be damned.

My thoughts exactly!

jwkincal
09-01-2011, 5:01 PM
The exception is to 12031 (loaded carry NOT concealed):

(2) A violation of this section is justifiable when a person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that he or she is in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against another person or persons who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her life or safety. This paragraph may not apply when the circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual finding of a specific threat to the person's life or safety. It is not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict, or narrow the application of current statutory or judicial authority to apply this or other justifications to defendants charged with violating Section 12025 or of committing other similar offenses.

...and technically it isn't an exception, just a pre-packaged defense; which means you can still be arrested for it, the judge/jury/DA has to decide that you do indeed have a specific threat for the charges to be dropped.

IANAL.

Librarian
09-01-2011, 5:03 PM
in imminent danger?



Yes, but 'imminent danger' is very narrow: (j) (1) Nothing in this section is intended to preclude the
carrying of any loaded firearm, under circumstances where it would
otherwise be lawful, by a person who reasonably believes that the
person or property of himself or herself or of another is in
immediate, grave danger and that the carrying of the weapon is
necessary for the preservation of that person or property. As used in
this subdivision, "immediate" means the brief interval before and
after the local law enforcement agency, when reasonably possible, has
been notified of the danger and before the arrival of its
assistance. PC 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html)

And that's not going to keep you from being arrested, it just might get you out of being convicted.

Apply for the LTC. Even if you don't get it, the app will be on the record.

ETA Ah, 2 minutes later than jwkincal! (Though (j)(1) is more apt until a restraining order might be issued.)

Bill Carson
09-01-2011, 5:06 PM
UOC.. it is better than nothing

jwkincal
09-01-2011, 5:10 PM
Yes, but 'imminent danger' is very narrow: PC 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html)

And that's not going to keep you from being arrested, it just might get you out of being convicted.

Apply for the LTC. Even if you don't get it, the app will be on the record.

ETA Ah, 2 minutes later than jwkincal! (Though (j)(1) is more apt until a restraining order might be issued.)

Yeah, my bad... I missed the most applicable bit. I'm still getting used to navigating that labyrinth, and now they're ABOUT TO MOVE ALL THE CORRIDORS!

glockman19
09-01-2011, 5:13 PM
The exception is to 12031 (loaded carry NOT concealed):

(2) A violation of this section is justifiable when a person who possesses a firearm reasonably believes that he or she is in grave danger because of circumstances forming the basis of a current restraining order issued by a court against another person or persons who has or have been found to pose a threat to his or her life or safety. This paragraph may not apply when the circumstances involve a mutual restraining order issued pursuant to Division 10 (commencing with Section 6200) of the Family Code absent a factual finding of a specific threat to the person's life or safety. It is not the intent of the Legislature to limit, restrict, or narrow the application of current statutory or judicial authority to apply this or other justifications to defendants charged with violating Section 12025 or of committing other similar offenses.

...and technically it isn't an exception, just a pre-packaged defense; which means you can still be arrested for it, the judge/jury/DA has to decide that you do indeed have a specific threat for the charges to be dropped.

IANAL.

File for a restraining order...and apply for a LCT permit.

blakdawg
09-01-2011, 5:19 PM
Exactly how is carrying a gun (concealed or not; legal or not) going to stop you from being shot in a drive-by?

It might give you an opportunity to return fire, but that's not the same as not getting shot.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't carry - consider me in the "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" camp - but it's disturbing to see people discussing guns like they're some sort of magical armor that prevents you from being shot, especially if someone gets the drop on you. (which is tough to avoid, if they know what you look like and you don't know what they look like)

vintagearms
09-01-2011, 5:22 PM
Exactly how is carrying a gun (concealed or not; legal or not) going to stop you from being shot in a drive-by?

It might give you an opportunity to return fire, but that's not the same as not getting shot.

I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't carry - consider me in the "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do" camp - but it's disturbing to see people discussing guns like they're some sort of magical armor that prevents you from being shot, especially if someone gets the drop on you. (which is tough to avoid, if they know what you look like and you don't know what they look like)

Im glad someone had the nerve to say this....;)

dantodd
09-01-2011, 5:23 PM
Im on the edge of LA County.

Does anyone know a good representative/lawyer who can help draft up a good cause statement?

thanks for not giving me a lot of grief over it.

Gang/Drug taskforce supervisor just emailed me to get my contact info and talk to me.

I support Police 110% despite the bad apples but have had converations with them and I pointed out that I know they can't be outside my door 24/7 and they agreed.

I wouldn't worry aboutngetting an attorney to do the GC. In your GC include the info you have, how & when you reported the information to the police, the officers name and report number if you have it. Tell them about any other information you have received regarding the bad guys' reaction etc. Includenyour neighbor's conversation and reaction.

If/when you get denied you can worry about getting professional help. Do NOT listen to anyone at the police/sheriff's station telling you that you won't qualify. Make them accept your application and take official action. DON'T ACCEPT THEIR WORD AT THE STATION FORCE THEM TO TAKE THE APPLICATION.

dantodd
09-01-2011, 5:25 PM
Exactly how is carrying a gun (concealed or not; legal or not) going to stop you from being shot in a drive-by?


You should re-read the OP. He said he accepts the chance of a drive by but wanted a gun for required walks in the neighborhood where he is susceptible to confrontation.

Tarn_Helm
09-01-2011, 5:33 PM
in imminent danger?

It appears that my license plates and reported coming/goings of the two drug dealers on our dead end street have resulted in lowering of their bottom line/profit margin.

They do know it's me due to being pointed out at a community watch meeting by a kid who snuck over to see what it was all about.

I was informed that they are connected to a larger drug dealer/bossman a couple streets over and that it's a larger operation than I'm seeing.

Is there a code that allows me to carry while we are walking our dogs around the neighborhood?

I'm not really looking forward to getting shot during a driveby (which does happen in our area).. but we have to walk our dogs.. (1 German shepherd and 1 husky mix).

Pomona... the only city I know of that has had a Sherrif gunned down on the courthouse steps by gangbangers.

Moving is not an option at this point.

My neighbor who spoke with an undercover officer she's friends with said wiht some tears in her eyes to be carefull and didn't want to say much else.

If you are referring to this story,--"April 23, 2004, Teen Arrested In Killing of CHP Officer Outside Pomona Courthouse (http://www.policeone.com/investigations/articles/85138-Teen-Arrested-In-Killing-of-CHP-Officer-Outside-Pomona-Courthouse/)"--then the victim was not a sheriff or deputy but a CHP officer.

But I deal with the "kids" from those neighborhoods.

You need to assume that you have been "greenlighted."

Having been greenlighted means that "La Eme" (Mexican Mafia) shotcallers who live in our state prisons have authorized one or more gangs to assassinate you.

There are numerous gangs in your area which attach the "trece" suffix ("13," in Spanish) to their name to indicate that they "pay taxes" to the Mexican Mafia--the letter being the thirteenth letter of the alphabet, thereby signifying Mexican Mafia.

Your neighborhood is probably pretty tagged up, right?

So for example, if you see CVPXIII or CVP13, that is the "CherrieVille Pomona 13" claiming that neighborhood as exclusive territory for residing there, selling drugs, pimping, or whatever other illegal activity it engages in there.

It sounds to me like you have a serious problem on your hands.

You did what those punks loosely call "snitching"--you informed on them to the authorities.

A favorite saying among gang members is "Snitches get stitches and end up in ditches."

That is not some little funny quip.

They kill people who threaten their cash flow.

It is that simple.

Good luck getting an (LTC) CCW.

You will simply be advised to run away like a coward.

Meanwhile, our crooked "Scientologist Sheriff Moonbeam (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-baca7may07,1,7259449.story)" will go about his mission as usual, saving the souls of criminals.

The last time someone asked for his help at a public forum, his flunky told the audience to "pray (http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jan/11/local/me-compton11)" for relief from the criminal predators who eat the city alive.

[Sarcastic smirk]

Good luck.

I do not envy you.

lawaia
09-01-2011, 5:37 PM
Take all of the advice above, and then drive 10 miles to a different neighborhood if you really need to walk your dog. Dead is dead, period. DO NOT take the risk!

ETA: Oh, and MOVE as quickly as you can. I don't care if you say you can't. Figure out a way. Carrying a gun will not save you.

WDE91
09-01-2011, 5:43 PM
you need to do the following

apply for permit
then move

djleisure
09-01-2011, 5:44 PM
Get a good bullet proof vest (lowest profile/highest protection you can afford) and beyond that, do what you gotta do.

Tarn_Helm
09-01-2011, 5:55 PM
Take all of the advice above, and then drive 10 miles to a different neighborhood if you really need to walk your dog. Dead is dead, period. DO NOT take the risk!

ETA: Oh, and MOVE as quickly as you can. I don't care if you say you can't. Figure out a way. Carrying a gun will not save you. (bold added by me)

True!!! :iagree:

You are outnumbered.

Don't feel like you are swallowing your pride.

Be realistic for now.

Do what you gotta do.

But move a.s.a.p.

You will never be safe there--and are not safe now.

Gangs follow no due process except for "PC 187 (http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-grieving-mom-targeted-eagle-rock,0,3222077.story)."

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In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. [Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ]

blakdawg
09-01-2011, 6:12 PM
You should re-read the OP. He said he accepts the chance of a drive by but wanted a gun for required walks in the neighborhood where he is susceptible to confrontation.

I don't see how you got that from this:

Is there a code that allows me to carry while we are walking our dogs around the neighborhood?

I'm not really looking forward to getting shot during a driveby (which does happen in our area).. but we have to walk our dogs.. (1 German shepherd and 1 husky mix).

but, one way or another, I still don't see how carrying a gun will prevent a person from being shot, especially if they're a known target predictably leaving from and returning to a known location (who's kind enough to bring along a couple of recognizable dogs, in case there's any question who the target is).

If you think someone's going to shoot you when you take your dogs for a walk, don't walk the dogs. Let them poop in the house.

mag360
09-01-2011, 6:32 PM
what did/does your license plate say?

Stonewalker
09-01-2011, 6:45 PM
Get a good bullet proof vest (lowest profile/highest protection you can afford) and beyond that, do what you gotta do.

This is great advice... sounds like you are in some dire straights... There are many low-profile/comfortable vests out there. I doubt gangs would be using any centerfire rifles, kevlar should be ok. But you could invest in some heavy stuff.... it is your life after all.

Damn man. I feel sorry for you. I also try to do my part in my neighborhood by being outside on my sidewalks, observing and talking to my neighbors/anybody who walks through. I have no problem talking to the police about what I observe. I paint over graffiti and I try to clean up trash. Good luck. Being the good guy isn't easy.

Anchors
09-01-2011, 6:54 PM
A gun won't protect you from a gang drive by. But it might protect you from the crime of opportunity (which is more common, in my observance of living in gang areas).

Yeah, planned drive bys happen all the time. But something I saw way more was "Hey! There's that fool that snitched on you dog. You going to let him just walk down the street like %&%^ is all good? Handle that $%$&!" etc, etc.
A sense of misplaced pride combined with the homies egging each other on when presented with an ample opportunity.

But like I said earlier. Consider not walking your dog for a while...

This is great advice... sounds like you are in some dire straights... There are many low-profile/comfortable vests out there. I doubt gangs would be using any centerfire rifles, kevlar should be ok. But you could invest in some heavy stuff.... it is your life after all.

I don't know about that, better to be safe than sorry.

Sub95
09-01-2011, 7:07 PM
two things, get the plates changed out on the car, and always walk a different route.

Caladain
09-01-2011, 7:23 PM
Consider a move.
Apply for a LTC.
Get a plate carrier. Level 4 Multi-hit. You're not in combat, you're a slow moving target, so be armored.
Consider a move.
Have a good alarm system installed if not already present. Sleep with overwhelming firepower locked-and-loaded if possible by your bed.
Consider a move..pride or a job isn't worth your life.
Don't walk the same routes, consider driving the dogs to a park to walk them, change the plates on your car, consider selling the car and getting a different make/model.

Sgt Raven
09-01-2011, 7:27 PM
two things, get the plates changed out on the car, and always walk a different route.

Don't have any set routine, vary everything you do, time and route.

socalocalypse
09-01-2011, 7:28 PM
Used vests available at bulletproofme.com ? Different costs and styles but used is under 200, I think one I liked was 160.

My coworkers pregnant wife got murdered in highland park for writing down a licenseplate. That was 10 years ago, ill never forget it. They walked into the house through the back door.

You're begging for trouble walking your dogs like that. It sounds like you know that and its a point of pride not to back down.

Put that pride in your shoe and minimize your visibility as it'll antagonize them.

I hope you're through calling thw police.

Be aware if you brandish or shoot your gun the cops will haul you in and throw the book at you no matter how good the cause.

socal2310
09-01-2011, 7:33 PM
He's in a dead end street or cul-de-sac, using different routes isn't going to be practical unless he wants to forego walking the dog entirely and hop fences.

You guys with the "A gun won't save you," sound an awful lot like those annoying ads that were popping up everywhere a few months ago, "Your .45 won't save you..." (I think it was someone trying to sell martial arts "training" videos). A firearm is no panacea, but I wouldn't mind taking a few of them with me.

Ryan

Psychadelica19
09-01-2011, 7:50 PM
Good luck man. Sounds like you are in a sucky situation.

lawaia
09-01-2011, 7:56 PM
He's in a dead end street or cul-de-sac, using different routes isn't going to be practical unless he wants to forego walking the dog entirely and hop fences.

You guys with the "A gun won't save you," sound an awful lot like those annoying ads that were popping up everywhere a few months ago, "Your .45 won't save you..." (I think it was someone trying to sell martial arts "training" videos). A firearm is no panacea, but I wouldn't mind taking a few of them with me.
Ryan

Please allow me to clarify my own statement.

I am a HUGE proponent of CA citizens applying for their LTC and carrying a gun. I strongly believe that everyone should be responsible for their own protection.

What I meant in my statement (and I'm sure others did as well) was that in this case a firearm is not going to be the end-all savior to this person's problem. If this gang wants to get him, they will figure out a way as long as he is present in the area. A gun may save his butt in certain situations, but not all. And even if he is successful in protecting himself with one the first time, I can promise the gang will be prepared for it the next.

Violent action in this case will only exacerbate the problem.

Hope this makes sense.

And sorry to the OP for your situation.:( It's of little consolation, but my prayers are with you and your family.

Oh, and don't take my comments to mean that you shouldn't carry a gun just in case. And it should probably be loaded.;) Please be careful and aware out there.

FastFinger
09-01-2011, 7:58 PM
Reading this thread is almost like watching some odd movie about another world. We're calmly giving advise to someone who's life may very well be in danger.

It amazes, angers, and saddens me that we've allowed ourselves to get into this position. Despite the advances we should be seeing in our 2A rights, this kind of crap will be allowed to continue and get even worse. Not just allowed, but encouraged.

Thugs and criminals operate with near impunity while the rest of us are forced to toe the line and be subject to increasing asinine laws and regulations.

Illegal aliens and other assorted predator punks are housed, fed, and watch cable TV in climate controlled frat houses where they have cell phones to coordinate intimidation, and worse, outside the prison walls, but we need to worry about being hit with a $200 fine because we had to take a phone call while sitting at a red light.

Rome is burning and the politicians waste time and scarce resources passing laws about foam hamburger boxes the color of squirt guns.

Multiculturalism is a joke. We've had cultural norms and standards that worked - not perfectly but well enough. But in the name of equality & self esteem we accepted every aberration and permutation regardless of how destructive they are.

We reward stupidity and bad behavior and even worship "celebrities" & athletes who exhibit the worst of those traits.

I've spoken to a few teacher lately... kids don't study, parents can't be bothered to assist, but both parents and kids still have dreams & plans for a better future - as a reality star or pro athlete. Is that the case for every kid? No, of course not, just the 50 plus % who can't manage to graduate with a high school degree. The millions that you & I will be paying to feed and watch satellite TV when they turn 18.

I hate to be a pessimist, but just step back and look at the trend lines - we are headed towards complete chaos.

Am I just an angry non-white man who doesn't get it and is frightened by progress and lifestyles other than my own? Or is it reasonable to think it's farking disgusting that a man's life is turned upside down and threatened just because he did the right thing and tried to improve his neighborhood?

lawaia
09-01-2011, 8:06 PM
FastFinger, you make too much sense to live in CA!

cbaer5
09-01-2011, 8:25 PM
I didn't see this but i could have missed it what about it being a misdemeanor for carrying a firearm registered in your name?

also jake if you dont have the means to get the concealable vest i have one you can use temporally but of course you cant legally use it if in the act of another crime i believe thats a felony.

please some one with more knowledge on this site this.

Stonewalker
09-01-2011, 8:53 PM
I don't know about that, better to be safe than sorry.

That's why I said "it is your life after all". Trauma plates are significantly more expensive than (most) handgun-rated kevlar (aren't they?). I was just trying to offer options for somebody who seems to be in dire straights.

God man, remind me to snitch discreetly when I call the cops. Or ****, maybe not. Maybe that is exactly what gang-related crime needs, is a bunch of well-armed, strong and good people to stand up to their bull****. Like Edmund Burke said: The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

FrankoUSA
09-01-2011, 9:14 PM
Buy this for your dog..... http://www.backpackdogs.com/
and pack some doggie treats and something else if you know what i mean :thumbsup:

Jake71
09-01-2011, 9:17 PM
Please don't assume that because I want to carry because of possible gang retaliation that I'm an Idiot.

I'm playing with the cards I'm dealt and I'm sorry some of you disagree.

I pray that you never have to be in my situation.

Jake71
09-01-2011, 9:29 PM
Buy this for your dog..... http://www.backpackdogs.com/
and pack some doggie treats and something else if you know what i mean :thumbsup:

I have one for my German Shepherd, Daisy.. she's not partial to it but she does walk with it.

Someone pm'd me and said to consider a vest which I'm going to look into tomorrow at work. I've ordered stuff from Galls before (EMT related stuff) so I might drive down there saturday if I dont order over the .net

The officers I have spoke to know who the guys are that pointed me out at our meeting so if anything does happen they told me those guys will be the first they go after.

I think more faith needs to be given to police, they aren't all bad.

Off early tomorrow from work and after I get my Shepherd out of her doctor appointment I'll stop by and pickup the application for ccw.

Thanks for the suggestions, prayers.. even the negative comments. Everyone has an opinion and it's those opinions that let us rationalize every possible outcome and precaution.

thanks
jake


to the poster who said this sounds like a movie... you aren't kidding. It's surreal.

Jake71
09-01-2011, 9:38 PM
two things, get the plates changed out on the car, and always walk a different route.



I drive a Mustang GT with no cats and an aftermarket exhaust. They can hear me coming a mile away. They even come out of their apartment occasionally to eyeball me.

I live on a dead end street.. one way in, one way out.

I give them no attention and don't even acknowledge them when I drive by but i'm watching them every second. I can't hide coming and going.

Our dogs have settled into their new home, both are adopted. Daisy the Shepherd is the protective one and only barks when its necessary.

Every time she's barked and I ignored it, I noticed something the next day so I took note and listen to every little bark. While at home the dogs will give me notice but outside it's anybodies game.

I've joked about it at work but inside I'm kinda worried but not to the point of being paralized with fear.

This is America damnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caladain
09-01-2011, 10:47 PM
This is America damnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you're in the middle of hostile territory surrounded and alone.

From your previous posts, it sounds like you have a significant other? Perhaps kids? *if* they've marked you for a hit, they will hit you, your family, your dogs. If they miss the first time, they'll escalate because you showed them up. If they haven't marked you, then you're just being paranoid. If you continue to interrupt the flow of cash to their pockets, then the rules of the game state the eventual outcome.

It's a structured game that you potentially started playing with them, with twisted and violent rules. It's their game they live and die by.

Your pride isn't worth it. Even the most hardcore, kick-*** Tier one operative knows when to beat a hasty retreat.

KylaGWolf
09-01-2011, 11:00 PM
I wouldn't worry aboutngetting an attorney to do the GC. In your GC include the info you have, how & when you reported the information to the police, the officers name and report number if you have it. Tell them about any other information you have received regarding the bad guys' reaction etc. Includenyour neighbor's conversation and reaction.

If/when you get denied you can worry about getting professional help. Do NOT listen to anyone at the police/sheriff's station telling you that you won't qualify. Make them accept your application and take official action. DON'T ACCEPT THEIR WORD AT THE STATION FORCE THEM TO TAKE THE APPLICATION.

To the OP I would go to the local SO and file for the LTC first thing in the morning.

Dan good point I wish I would have done that when one of my classmates basically put his hands around my neck and squeezed. the dude is seriously out there. He has also brought a knife on campus but they let him go. They threatened to expel me for one that I had in the box I bought it in and wrapped and taped. BLAH.

Maestro Pistolero
09-01-2011, 11:55 PM
There is the possibility that you wouldn't see a drive-by coming, but you likely will. If you're alert (and I am sure you are) you may be able to take cover (behind an engine block or a brick wall hopefully) and return fire. They won't be expecting it. Hone your skills. seriously. Be prepared to let the dog leashes go instantly. Don't be waiting on your dogs when it's time to cover your behind.

And, by the way, pack those dogs up in the car and walk somewhere else, anywhere else. Also, expect uninvited visitors in your home. Have a safe room if possible and be prepared to do battle from a fortified position of cover in your home. Have a shotgun and one other firearm under your immediate control whenever you are home. You are not paranoid, you are really a target.

Andric
09-02-2011, 12:08 AM
I'm not a big fan of UOC, but how about a UOC event in this neighborhood? 30 some odd calgunners walking the OP's dogs through the 'hood sends an interesting message.

Yes, it's a pipe dream. I realize that everyone will respond saying that is increasing tension and drawing attention to the situation and it would cause more problems.
But don't they have take back the night events?

Cuerno_de_Chivo
09-02-2011, 12:10 AM
Don't go all Rambo, just MOVE! It's not like they are going to send one gun to get you, they will send around 5 or 6 even more! If it is a serious hardcore gang, then MOVE! They WILL get you, snitches is something they absolutely WILL NOT tolerate. Just move! Those guys probably have FA weapons and such, your most likely outgunned and out manned. Just move!

caoboy
09-02-2011, 12:40 AM
That is some scary ****. Please keep us updated on your situation. Even an all clear check in would be good to go.

Anchors
09-02-2011, 2:28 AM
That's why I said "it is your life after all". Trauma plates are significantly more expensive than (most) handgun-rated kevlar (aren't they?). I was just trying to offer options for somebody who seems to be in dire straights.

God man, remind me to snitch discreetly when I call the cops. Or ****, maybe not. Maybe that is exactly what gang-related crime needs, is a bunch of well-armed, strong and good people to stand up to their bull****. Like Edmund Burke said: The only thing required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Not always
http://www.bulletproofme.com/Body_Armor_Accessories_Concealable.shtml

And seriously, how have we come to a point where a man should have to worry about a gang assault in his neighborhood?
I hate living in cities. I can't wait to live in the middle of nowhere and only have to worry about animals and random crazy people.

Tarn_Helm
09-02-2011, 4:16 AM
This is great advice... sounds like you are in some dire straights... There are many low-profile/comfortable vests out there. I doubt gangs would be using any centerfire rifles, kevlar should be ok. But you could invest in some heavy stuff.... it is your life after all.

Damn man. I feel sorry for you. I also try to do my part in my neighborhood by being outside on my sidewalks, observing and talking to my neighbors/anybody who walks through. I have no problem talking to the police about what I observe. I paint over graffiti and I try to clean up trash. Good luck. Being the good guy isn't easy. (font edit by me)

Yes, gang members of all ages--from the 14 year olds to the old "vatos"--have and use centerfire rifles.

And they keep look outs.

There are those who are assigned to keep watch at key choke points in their barrios (most often spelled "varrio").

In the case of a cul-de-sac, the only safe assumption is that you are always watched, even when you see no one outside visibly watching you.

Also, I don't know if you have heard of this website (http://www.whosarat.com/), but I would check it regularly to see if your name is there: http://www.whosarat.com/
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/Whosarat.jpg
I'm sorry to have to be the one to point that site out to you.

But it is better to know how bad the situation is than to imagine it is only local--i.e., in your immediate neighborhood.

Another thing: "drive-bys" do still happen, but more and more the tactic is the walk-up--a gangbanger does the role of gunner, walks right up on you and gives you a headshot with a revolver at close range.

And they use revolvers on purpose for tasks like that--shootings in their home turf--to prevent leaving shell casings at the scene.

While gang members are usually quite stupid and brutal, they do have a sort of low, animal cunning that should never be underestimated.

They are capable of rudimentary but devastating planning.

They burn people out too.

Depending on how your residence is situated, you might be at greater risk of being burned out of it than shot while out and about.

Walking the dog in your neighborhood is definitely an unsafe practice for you or anyone in your household--I would stop that immediately.

Oh, and you can imagine what happens when you run out of the burning building . . . then the shooting starts.

Just be careful.

And start planning to find a different residence.

That is what I would do if I were you (OP), friend.

stix213
09-02-2011, 6:19 AM
Moving is not an option at this point.


While advising LTC, vests, cover, returning fire, sounds all well and good.... They all involve possibly being shot at. Moving is actually the best option. If you really think its not an option, figure out how to make it an option. Whatever is keeping your from doing so is insignificant compared to this problem.

dalriaden
09-02-2011, 6:40 AM
I agree you should move asap. Vary your routine as much as possible, time you walk the dogs, leave for work earlier/later then normal, if you have a wife and kids I'd send them to sisters/mothers house, but get them out of there. It's a lot better then someone coming to you and having them make an example out of them instead. Best of luck, and stay safe.

mag360
09-02-2011, 7:02 AM
calguns long-range precision vigilante justice program can now commence. Oh that would be the day. Today is likely not that day...tomorrows not looking to good either.

Jake71
09-02-2011, 7:33 AM
(font edit by me)

Yes, gang members of all ages--from the 14 year olds to the old "vatos"--have and use centerfire rifles.

And they keep look outs.

There are those who are assigned to keep watch at key choke points in their barrios (most often spelled "varrio").

In the case of a cul-de-sac, the only safe assumption is that you are always watched, even when you see no one outside visibly watching you.

Also, I don't know if you have heard of this website (http://www.whosarat.com/), but I would check it regularly to see if your name is there: http://www.whosarat.com/
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/Whosarat.jpg
I'm sorry to have to be the one to point that site out to you.

But it is better to know how bad the situation is than to imagine it is only local--i.e., in your immediate neighborhood.

Another thing: "drive-bys" do still happen, but more and more the tactic is the walk-up--a gangbanger does the role of gunner, walks right up on you and gives you a headshot with a revolver at close range.

And they use revolvers on purpose for tasks like that--shootings in their home turf--to prevent leaving shell casings at the scene.

While gang members are usually quite stupid and brutal, they do have a sort of low, animal cunning that should never be underestimated.

They are capable of rudimentary but devastating planning.

They burn people out too.

Depending on how your residence is situated, you might be at greater risk of being burned out of it than shot while out and about.

Walking the dog in your neighborhood is definitely an unsafe practice for you or anyone in your household--I would stop that immediately.

Oh, and you can imagine what happens when you run out of the burning building . . . then the shooting starts.

Just be careful.

And start planning to find a different residence.

That is what I would do if I were you (OP), friend.


I was on the jury of a murder trial ith a gang member who walked up to a bus stop and shot someone in the head. Guilty veridict and death penalty.

I'm always on the lookout while walking.

Shocked that there is a website like that... holy crap! seriously? Well i'll register and see if I'm on it and if I am, we are moving to another country.

Who comes up with a website like that?? :eek:

I asked today at our office if we represent Pomona and the Sherrif's office there and hopefully get a reference from the City Atty.

Stonewalker
09-02-2011, 9:34 AM
(font edit by me)

Yes, gang members of all ages--from the 14 year olds to the old "vatos"--have and use centerfire rifles.

And they keep look outs.

There are those who are assigned to keep watch at key choke points in their barrios (most often spelled "varrio").

In the case of a cul-de-sac, the only safe assumption is that you are always watched, even when you see no one outside visibly watching you.

Also, I don't know if you have heard of this website (http://www.whosarat.com/), but I would check it regularly to see if your name is there: http://www.whosarat.com/
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/Whosarat.jpg
I'm sorry to have to be the one to point that site out to you.

But it is better to know how bad the situation is than to imagine it is only local--i.e., in your immediate neighborhood.

Another thing: "drive-bys" do still happen, but more and more the tactic is the walk-up--a gangbanger does the role of gunner, walks right up on you and gives you a headshot with a revolver at close range.

And they use revolvers on purpose for tasks like that--shootings in their home turf--to prevent leaving shell casings at the scene.

While gang members are usually quite stupid and brutal, they do have a sort of low, animal cunning that should never be underestimated.

They are capable of rudimentary but devastating planning.

They burn people out too.

Depending on how your residence is situated, you might be at greater risk of being burned out of it than shot while out and about.

Walking the dog in your neighborhood is definitely an unsafe practice for you or anyone in your household--I would stop that immediately.

Oh, and you can imagine what happens when you run out of the burning building . . . then the shooting starts.

Just be careful.

And start planning to find a different residence.

That is what I would do if I were you (OP), friend.

Tarn... that website is terrifying. But that's how free speech works I suppose. You sound like you know a lot about gangs and gang investigations. Thanks for your information.

Stonewalker
09-02-2011, 9:40 AM
Also, OP, if you are going to register on whosarat... give fake info and don't access it from home. Go to a public computer to log in. Read this bulletin.
http://cryptome.org/leo-whosarat.htm

A quote from that bulletin:
Searching the site for a particular name could result in that name being cross-indexed to the IP address of the computer used to make the inquiry. Searching for the names of officers or informants could compromise those individual's identities. Any website is capable of collecting IP address and search information from visitors, but this site is remarkable because it makes visitor information public.

lawaia
09-02-2011, 9:46 AM
Somebody should hack that site and crash it. Wish I had the talent. It amazes me that crap like this exists!

CessnaDriver
09-02-2011, 9:58 AM
Pay someone else to walk the dogs.
People do it all the time.

Or take them to a park somewhere.

Your family doesn't want you killed over doggie excercise.

BillCA
09-02-2011, 11:01 AM
I'm have to agree with the others that simply getting a CCW isn't going to solve many of your problems. It'll provide some peace of mind, but not enough. That said, get an application for you and your significant other and submit them both.

+1 on concealed body armor. Remember, concealed means concealed so don't wear it under a form-fitting t-shirt. You don't want them to know your torso is protected. Body armor for your significant other is also a good investment.

If you can't afford a home alarm system, at least buy some door & window alarms. First Alert (and others) sell battery operated units that can be put on windows and doors to give you extra seconds of warning.

DO:
Be predictably unpredictable. Vary your external routines to make their planning more difficult.
Always carry a cell phone with you.
Take different routes in/out of your neighborhood. You have limited options because of the cul-de-sac. Do your best.
Vary the route you take to work, dry cleaners, grocery, etc. No set patterns.
Watch for cars following you. If you think so, use a parking lot on a straight street, enter at the first driveway and see if the car enters the lot too even at other driveways. Then exit the lot.
Before leaving the house always survey the street outside for unusual cars, foot traffic, etc.
When coming home, do the same. If people are sitting in a car nearby, abort the approach - go somewhere else.
Make sure the house is tight & secure when you leave. Enforce the rules with the spouse. No unlocked doors/windows.
Lock gates to side & back yards. Nothing fancy, just something to prevent people from easily entering the yard.
If you have an electric garage door, open it as early as you can before entering the driveway.
Establish "code words" with the significant other. Use your cell phone to make contact before arriving home. She should do the same if you're normally home when you are.
Be aware than gangs sometimes use people to infiltrate the neighborhood watch. Perhaps not directly, but by co-opting someone to gather info for them.


As other have said, walk the dogs elsewhere. Go "across the tracks" to nicer neighborhoods and parks to exercise the pups, but stay vigilant.

Ensure your significant other can shoot and has a gun. If these thugs have their own lookouts, they may wait for you to take the dogs out in the car then try to enter the house or attack the spouse.

If there are others in your cul-de-sac who are part of a neighborhood watch and/or trustworthy, talk to them. Extra eyes and ears never hurt and they may be able to warn you (or you warn them).

Lastly, consider breaking the lease and moving to a better area. Making a point isn't worth you life when dealing with violent thugs like this.

Maestro Pistolero
09-02-2011, 11:05 AM
Somebody should hack that site and crash it. Wish I had the talent. It amazes me that crap like this exists!

Exactly. Hack it, and put the names and addresses of the site's owners in the database, then lock them out of it.

IGOTDIRT4U
09-02-2011, 1:01 PM
I wouldn't worry aboutngetting an attorney to do the GC. In your GC include the info you have, how & when you reported the information to the police, the officers name and report number if you have it. Tell them about any other information you have received regarding the bad guys' reaction etc. Includenyour neighbor's conversation and reaction.

If/when you get denied you can worry about getting professional help. Do NOT listen to anyone at the police/sheriff's station telling you that you won't qualify. Make them accept your application and take official action. DON'T ACCEPT THEIR WORD AT THE STATION FORCE THEM TO TAKE THE APPLICATION.

In that same vein, I would enlist the help of the gang unit officer that just contacted you and see if he can steer you through the process. He won't go on the record for you, but if you use his name with his permission as to one of the people you talked to in the course of this ongoing investigattion, the LTC reviewers may call him and confirm the brevity of the situation.

FrankoUSA
09-02-2011, 1:46 PM
You should throw a calguns party, so the gangster trash can see all your second amendment buddies :gunsmilie:

bwiese
09-02-2011, 2:13 PM
I wouldn't worry aboutngetting an attorney to do the GC. In your GC include the info you have, how & when you reported the information to the police, the officers name and report number if you have it. Tell them about any other information you have received regarding the bad guys' reaction etc. Includenyour neighbor's conversation and reaction.

If/when you get denied you can worry about getting professional help. Do NOT listen to anyone at the police/sheriff's station telling you that you won't qualify. Make them accept your application and take official action. DON'T ACCEPT THEIR WORD AT THE STATION FORCE THEM TO TAKE THE APPLICATION.

Correct.

PLEASE FOLLOW THRU. Do NOT accept 'verbal denials' or other disuasion. Run the process thru, everything in writing, to completion.

Go thru the complete process even if you get denied. If there's an appeal process after that, go thru that as well.

It's worth it, if something has to happen.

C&Rtrader
09-02-2011, 2:35 PM
I'm not a big fan of UOC, but how about a UOC event in this neighborhood? 30 some odd calgunners walking the OP's dogs through the 'hood sends an interesting message.

Yes, it's a pipe dream. I realize that everyone will respond saying that is increasing tension and drawing attention to the situation and it would cause more problems.
But don't they have take back the night events?

^^- interesting idea. I was thinking the same thing. If any of my close friends were in your situation I would be right there walking with you. Never UOC'ed before but this would be enough to start.

at the very least are there any calgunners who can loan this guy a vest if he can't buy one?

kermitz
09-02-2011, 2:35 PM
I think in your situation, open carry would only serve to rile them up more. They might look at it as you asking them try something. Almost as if you were challenging them.

curtisfong
09-02-2011, 2:42 PM
I think in your situation, open carry would only serve to rile them up more. They might look at it as you asking them try something. Almost as if you were challenging them.

There once was a time when large groups of armed law abiding citizens could do this and get real results.

C&Rtrader
09-02-2011, 3:19 PM
There once was a time when large groups of armed law abiding citizens could do this and get real results.

When you think about it, that is exactly what the gangs have done. Sadly, not the results we all want though.

Andric
09-02-2011, 3:24 PM
There once was a time when large groups of armed law abiding citizens could do this and get real results.

Funny, when I posted this idea I was thinking of excerpt from "Gunfight" by Adam Winkler. When the Black Panthers walked around with guns to ensure their rights, almost the same situation.

Wherryj
09-02-2011, 3:24 PM
Consider a move.
Apply for a LTC.
Get a plate carrier. Level 4 Multi-hit. You're not in combat, you're a slow moving target, so be armored.
Consider a move.
Have a good alarm system installed if not already present. Sleep with overwhelming firepower locked-and-loaded if possible by your bed.
Consider a move..pride or a job isn't worth your life.
Don't walk the same routes, consider driving the dogs to a park to walk them, change the plates on your car, consider selling the car and getting a different make/model.

Along with a home alarm system I'd seriously consider motion activated lights and possibly security cameras. You'll most likely need vandal proof versions...

Tarn_Helm
09-02-2011, 4:47 PM
I was on the jury of a murder trial ith a gang member who walked up to a bus stop and shot someone in the head. Guilty veridict and death penalty.

I'm always on the lookout while walking.

Shocked that there is a website like that... holy crap! seriously? Well i'll register and see if I'm on it and if I am, we are moving to another country.

Who comes up with a website like that?? :eek:

I asked today at our office if we represent Pomona and the Sherrif's office there and hopefully get a reference from the City Atty. (font edit by me)

Who?

Criminals, that's who.

The criminal mindset of gang members is entrenched in their bone marrow as early as 5 years old.

Think of it like this.

You grow up only around tattooed, battle-scarred veteranos who only ever say negative things about the police, smoke pot right in front of you, carry guns (with no LTC, CCW, or anything else), and who spend their lives entering and exiting the revolving door of the criminal justice system starting in childhood.

By the time you are old enough to talk, the only thing you care about is getting "jumped in." (Please tell me you know what that means.)

But they make you wait until you are about 9 years old or until you can hold your own in an all out fist fight with more than one person at a time.

If you live long enough in the criminal world, you end up creating websites like that because you are as committed to criminality as the rest are committed to avoiding criminality.

Gangs have their own constitutions, hierarchies, and bylaws.

Read the entire article, which originally appeared in the Chicago Tribune, July 27, 2008: (http://www.policeone.com/drug-interdiction-narcotics/articles/1719653-Informant-offers-rare-look-inside-Ill-gang/)


"Joseph Lopez, King's attorney, argued in court that Guajardo and federal investigators entrapped his client. He said King had stepped away from gang life.

After King's arrest, federal authorities searched his home and confiscated the Latin King's constitution and manifesto that lay out gang rules, bylaws, symbols and its quasi-spiritual, quasi-revolutionary philosophy.

The constitution lists the gang's official annual holiday as Jan. 6—Kings Holy Day—when gang members fast to honor "the memory of our departed Brothers and Sisters." Gang membership is open to anyone who adopts "Kingism" except for rapists, heroin addicts or anyone who has killed a Latin King or his or her relative.

Also, any member "found guilty of being a traitor or police collaborator shall . . . be expelled from the Nation." (http://www.policeone.com/drug-interdiction-narcotics/articles/1719653-Informant-offers-rare-look-inside-Ill-gang/)
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. [Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ]

They live in a parallel universe.

Unfortnately for us, they cross over into ours any time they want.

We cannot cross over into theirs--which is fortunate for them because we have them outnumbered.

Try to put distance between yourself the people you informed against as soon as possible.

They don't fight fair or use force proportional to the "threat" they perceive.

They are predators, sociopaths.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/SURECUREFORSOCIOPATHY.jpg

They do not understand reality the way you and I do.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/predatorsunderstandstrength.jpg

inbox485
09-02-2011, 4:56 PM
Get a restraining order. File a police report detailing the threats as known to you. I don't have the laws handy, but the justification for 12031 is repeated for 12025 somewhere in the vicinity of 12026.

Get a vest. Get the best you can afford. If money is prohibitively tight, check out pawn shops. They routinely carry old IIIA soft armor in the $80 range. Certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but if I personally needed armor today, that is where I would start.

Carry a concealed and loaded gun that is registered to you. Concealed means nobody knows about it unless you have to draw it in defense. If it becomes an issue, chances are the misdemeanor 12031/12025 that won't even get filed if you keep a copy of the restraining order and relevant law on your person and the responding officer has half a brain would be the least of your problems.

That all said, if you are alone in standing up to these pukes, it is time to walk away and let the rest of the cowards live in their own filth. If a fair portion of the neighborhood is willing to stand by you, this may be a cause worth fighting, but it sure doesn't sound like it. I have ZERO sympathy for dead beat cowards that won't take a stand in their own neighborhoods. If even a moderate group of families make it known that they aren't taking the drug dealers crap anymore they will simply leave. There is no lack of dead beat cowardvilles around. But if you are living in a deadbeat cowardville, you are just going to be the next grease smear to be ignored by the media.

Caladain
09-02-2011, 5:49 PM
If even a moderate group of families make it known that they aren't taking the drug dealers crap anymore they will simply leave.

Actually, that *will* cause a massive escalation. You'd be a direct threat to their profits, and they will mess up the neighborhood..burn the houses, kill the old ladies, to *send a message*.

If your pride is not going to let you leave and put you and your loved ones in immediate and very, very real danger, wear armor, arm up, and wear your blood type on your boot and arm.

kcbrown
09-02-2011, 9:51 PM
This is America damnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, it's not. We live in a communist country here in California, comrade. A socialist paradise where criminal gangs are welcomed and supported because, clearly, they're just poor, downtrodden people trying to eke out an existence for themselves.

It's going to take the massive national legal action that's currently underway, and much more beyond that, to bring something that even looks like freedom to these parts.

Cuerno_de_Chivo
09-02-2011, 10:10 PM
No, it's not. We live in a communist country here in California, comrade. A socialist paradise where criminal gangs are welcomed and supported because, clearly, they're just poor, downtrodden people trying to eke out an existence for themselves.

It's going to take the massive national legal action that's currently underway, and much more beyond that, to bring something that even looks like freedom to these parts.

It really doesn't matter where you are, if real gangsters are out to get you, they WILL get you. Even in Texas, one should be scared of threats like these. Just because you have a gun does NOT mean you are safe. Sure you may take down one or two, but they WILL send more guns to get you. Like i said if they are out to get you THEY WILL. That's why his best choice is to MOVE. Snitching is the WORST of the worst things to do when it comes to "gang life".

kcbrown
09-02-2011, 10:25 PM
It really doesn't matter where you are, if real gangsters are out to get you, they WILL get you. Even in Texas, one should be scared of threats like these. Just because you have a gun does NOT mean you are safe. Sure you may take down one or two, but they WILL send more guns to get you. Like i said if they are out to get you THEY WILL. That's why his best choice is to MOVE. Snitching is the WORST of the worst things to do when it comes to "gang life".

That's true. The difference is that in Texas, you won't be arrested and, perhaps, tried and convicted for defending yourself in public against these "models of civility" the way you would here in this socialist paradise of ours.

In Texas, you need only fear the gangsters. Here in our beloved state of California, you need to fear the gangsters and the government. And here, both groups view you in roughly the same way.


Hell, one wonders, sometimes, if perhaps the two groups aren't working together for fun and profit. Works for Mexico (and Oakland), after all...

Cuerno_de_Chivo
09-02-2011, 10:30 PM
That's true. The difference is that in Texas, you won't be arrested and, perhaps, tried and convicted for defending yourself in public against these "models of civility" the way you would here in this socialist paradise of ours.

In Texas, you need only fear the gangsters. Here in our beloved state of California, you need to fear the gangsters and the government. And here, both groups view you in roughly the same way.

I totally agree with you. I'm actually more afraid of getting in trouble with the law than getting in a shoot out with a couple of gang bangers.

Time of Flight
09-02-2011, 11:06 PM
OP how did that kid find out in the first place?

Did you open your mouth at the meeting and blab about what you did?

That was not very smart at all!

Maestro Pistolero
09-02-2011, 11:14 PM
OP how did that kid find out in the first place?

Did you open your mouth at the meeting and blab about what you did?

That was not very smart at all!

You ask a question then conclude he's not smart before you hear the answer?

hornswaggled
09-02-2011, 11:37 PM
This really pisses me off. An American citizen should not have to live under the same terror BS like he's a resident of a Mexican border town. And the cops are probably too busy enforcing the unconstitutional laws of politicians to help. Maybe they'll swing by to clean up the mess after real criminals have had their way with someone. Real ----ing nice.

Maestro Pistolero
09-02-2011, 11:50 PM
F'ing terrorists. If it was me, they had better kill me on their first attempt. Even sleeping becomes perilous activity for them after that.

darthnugget
09-03-2011, 12:11 AM
What we need is a site that allows people to submit houses and gang activity locations on google maps. Kind of like the one for child predators but instead for gangs. I am sure that if it was more obvious to people it would surely get media attention and hopefully police and federal assistance to clean up such areas.

I am sure in our great state that this would be considered an invasion of privacy and taken down.

glockwise2000
09-03-2011, 12:11 AM
I wouldn't be walking your dog if your community isn't much safe to do so.

Getting a CCW permit is your best chance of having some sort of defense. But you are in LA county and good luck of acquiring one. Even if you have a best cause to write on your application.

Time of Flight
09-03-2011, 1:05 AM
You ask a question then conclude he's not smart before you hear the answer?

What I meant to say was, if it turns out he did open his mouth, then it would not have been very smart...My mistake.

Tarn_Helm
09-03-2011, 1:10 AM
You ask a question then conclude he's not smart before you hear the answer?

:iagree:

You are right, Maestro.

Yeah, let's go easy on the guy.

He is the would-be victim.
************************************************** ********
To the OP:
There is nothing intrinsically blameworthy in not knowing how dangerous other human beings are--after all they aim to deceive by first living amongst us--then they victimize us.

In a previous post, I probably should not have said, with regard to getting 'jumped in', "please tell me you know what that means"--I sounded too sarcastic, and that is not my intention in communicating with the OP.

I'm trying to help--not to make him feel bad in public--and it should be the same here with all of us.

This is a serious problem with no easy or proper solution--only a bunch of second best responses: moving, arming, wearing body armor, rescheduling his life so as to avoid crossing the paths of the gang members.

This is not something to make light of or make facile, disparaging remarks about.

So let's all think of ways to help.

Maybe a giant CalGunners Barbecue (unofficial, of course) would be a good idea--but no guns displayed, no UOC--just lots of folks showing up.

They call this "rolling deep."

If the OP is not seen as a loner (actually, an individual), which amounts to "weak" in their way of thinking, but is seen as someone who has vast reserves of comrades, that could affect their perceptions and perhaps induce them to back off a little, temporarily.

. . . on the other hand, that could push them over the edge and think we're challenging them to a game of "Quien es mas macho?"

Anyway, these are just some 2AM musings--no pun intended.

I really wish I could help with action or advice other than "Cut and run," if you know what I mean.

The most important thing in your current situation is to live to fight another day--and not to get sucked into their madness.

Take care.
:(

BillCA
09-03-2011, 3:07 AM
Get a restraining order. File a police report detailing the threats as known to you. I don't have the laws handy, but the justification for 12031 is repeated for 12025 somewhere in the vicinity of 12026.

Um... no. You realize a restraining order against a gang banger will reveal the name and location(s) of the person(s) they have to stay away from, right? And that such a piece of paper is absolutely worthless, except to be insulting to the thug's machismo. No government lackey or ******** sheep is gonna tell him where he can't go or who he can't talk to! You might as well take out an ad in the local Spanish language newspaper.

That all said, if you are alone in standing up to these pukes, it is time to walk away and let the rest of the cowards live in their own filth. If a fair portion of the neighborhood is willing to stand by you, this may be a cause worth fighting, but it sure doesn't sound like it. I have ZERO sympathy for dead beat cowards that won't take a stand in their own neighborhoods. If even a moderate group of families make it known that they aren't taking the drug dealers crap anymore they will simply leave. There is no lack of dead beat cowardvilles around. But if you are living in a deadbeat cowardville, you are just going to be the next grease smear to be ignored by the media.

Yeah, that's harsh. And unfair to many who are caught living in those neighborhoods. Miguel might work hard at the Tire & Brake shop all day and he can't always be there to see his kids back and forth from school. Maybe his wife works too, perhaps waiting tables at an upscale Mexican place near a high-tech center with good tips. So you call him a coward for not wanting to risk his wife and kids? Someone says "Gee, Miguel, it'd be a shame if something happened to your pretty daughter to mess her up." Or someone says "kids shouldn't have to grow up without their mother" as warnings. He can't protect them and work at the same time.

Dominic might want to clean up the neighborhood, but he too works and has to leave his elderly mother or grandmother alone for eight hours. With that much time some drug gangs can be creatively brutal. Dominic doesn't fight back to prevent drawing attention to his mother or putting her through his funeral.

Even if you can band together those neighbors who would like change, not all of them are capable of standing up to the intimidation, fear and potential attacks.

Cowards? No. It's pragmatism. Even if they defeat/incarcerate/kill the head of the local gang, someone replaces him and they escalate the war.

Kid Stanislaus
09-03-2011, 8:08 AM
UOC.. it is better than nothing

In this case, probably not. If he's attacked it'll be by multiple persons and it'll happen swiftly. He'll never get the gun loaded.;)

Kid Stanislaus
09-03-2011, 8:11 AM
You should re-read the OP. He said he accepts the chance of a drive by but wanted a gun for required walks in the neighborhood where he is susceptible to confrontation.

DUH!! Stop walk'n in the neighborhood!:rolleyes:

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I think we can safely say at this point this guy either MOVES out of the neighborhood (and changes he license plates) or he'll soon be DEAD. If he can't take sensible action to save his own life I won't be wasting any more time in this thread.

Maestro Pistolero
09-03-2011, 8:27 AM
Did I miss the content of the license plate, or was it not posted for obvious reasons? Is it possible to describe it's subject matter without further compromising the OP's safety?

Caladain
09-03-2011, 8:58 AM
Did I miss the content of the license plate, or was it not posted for obvious reasons? Is it possible to describe it's subject matter without further compromising the OP's safety?

OP goes and identifies a dealer/lowlevel publicly. OP then gets positively ID'd by a hopper, who presumably, now has relayed the OP's license number and home address to the gang.

OP is then saying he's going to stay, and accepts the risk of a drive by on him/his significant other. OP doesn't seem to acknowledge that the gangs will likely employ more direct means against snitches, including home invasion/rape/murder/suprise attack on the street. OP states he *will not* move, but wants his gun for when he walks the dogs. OP has not stated if SigOther will have a gun/knows how to use it/is aware of the threat.

I'm starting to think the OP is either a troll (masterfully done) or is stupid/prideful, in which case i wish him the best and hope he's just being paranoid and hasn't been greenlit.

Maestro Pistolero
09-03-2011, 10:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro Pistolero
Did I miss the content of the license plate, or was it not posted for obvious reasons? Is it possible to describe it's subject matter without further compromising the OP's safety?


OP goes and identifies a dealer/lowlevel publicly. OP then gets positively ID'd by a hopper, who presumably, now has relayed the OP's license number and home address to the gang.

OP is then saying he's going to stay, and accepts the risk of a drive by on him/his significant other. OP doesn't seem to acknowledge that the gangs will likely employ more direct means against snitches, including home invasion/rape/murder/suprise attack on the street. OP states he *will not* move, but wants his gun for when he walks the dogs. OP has not stated if SigOther will have a gun/knows how to use it/is aware of the threat.

I'm starting to think the OP is either a troll (masterfully done) or is stupid/prideful, in which case i wish him the best and hope he's just being paranoid and hasn't been greenlit.
All that was on a license plate? :D . . . kidding

Tango-Alpha
09-03-2011, 10:16 AM
Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

If your in fear of your life, do what you need to do. Laws be damned.

Tarn_Helm
09-03-2011, 10:28 AM
Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Better?

Even if he is tried by a jury of people similar and/or related to the ones in his neighborhood?

Better, even if he is convicted and sent to jail/prison and then locked in a cage with animals similar and/or related to the ones in his neighborhood?

Be careful what you wish for, Cookie.
:facepalm:

Make sure you're thinking with your brain and not your little huevos--that'll get you in trouble every time.

skyscraper
09-03-2011, 10:32 AM
While advising LTC, vests, cover, returning fire, sounds all well and good.... They all involve possibly being shot at. Moving is actually the best option. If you really think its not an option, figure out how to make it an option. Whatever is keeping your from doing so is insignificant compared to this problem.

Good point.

Tarn_Helm
09-03-2011, 12:36 PM
In this case, probably not. If he's attacked it'll be by multiple persons and it'll happen swiftly. He'll never get the gun loaded.;) (font edit by me)

I agree.

It is always possible that he would be the victim of a solo mission.

But given the gang members' propensity to act as a gang, you have to assume that an attack by multiple armed attackers is highly likely.

So all the guns and bullet-resistant gear in the world won't help if they decide to act in concert to further the interests of their criminal organization by ending the OP's life or burning him and his house down (or whatever other evil tactic they devise).

And if you keep your dog outside, remember that they can poison meat/food easily and throw it silently over your fence, with no one being the wiser.

Then your dog walking problem will have been solved by them--but not your personal security problem.
:(

You are between a rock and a hard place, based on what you have said so far.

Choose your next move judiciously.

It could be your last.
:hide:

Mod_monkey
09-03-2011, 1:21 PM
i would have to agree with everything Tarn_Helm has said on this thread. honestly the best option for you IS TO MOVE if there is a will there is a way, no matter your financial situation is, you need to make a very important decision for you and your loved ones if you dont live alone. no amount of $$$ is worth your life or your loved ones lives. good luck with whatever your decision is.

adriantimatter
09-03-2011, 1:39 PM
Kill them?:whistling:

Tarn_Helm
09-03-2011, 1:56 PM
Kill them?:whistling:

. . . with the torments of having been denied the grace of your presence in their neighborhood.

:p

Spirit 1
09-03-2011, 2:19 PM
I was living in Mississippi, working, caring for my family. Due to very extreme circumstances I came home one Friday night with a car load of empty boxes. Had dinner and afterwards went out and got the boxes, came in and started packing stuff up. My wife asked what I was doing, and I told her, "I'm moving to Florida. If you guys want to go with me there's more boxes out in the car." No questions or argument followed.

We got everything in the car and headed out. Made it to Loxley, Alabama before the engine blew. Stranded on the side of the freeway about 2AM, a semi-truck stopped to see what was going on [very unusual]. I told him the deal, and he saw my wife and kids in the car. Said, "Well, son, y'all get your stuff and shove it in this here sleeper...." and that blessed man trucked us to Pensacola, Florida. He said his truck wasn't running right, and he had to get a motel room for the night. We hung around the pool area with our belongings through the night, and in the morning his truck was gone. A motel employee came out to tell us he'd paid for a room for 3 days for us.

In the morning I went in and cut a deal for rent by the week, telling the owner/manager the situation straight up, and asking him if he knew of any jobs in the area? 10 days later the rent was up, I'd looked for work on foot every day. The motel manager hired me as Maintenance Supervisor of the motel, including free rent. Later got an apartment, but worked for him for a couple of years. We survived, thanks be to God. That's over 30 years ago, still surviving, thanks be to God.

All may sound crazy & extreme, unless you were there living it. Some local folks in ole Miss made it obvious they wanted this 'Californy boy' dead, and had made one attempt on my life that last day at work, which I survived, thanks be to God.

It wasn't what I would have chosen in life.

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

A country boy can survive....

Maestro Pistolero
09-03-2011, 2:23 PM
What a great story!!

Kid Stanislaus
09-03-2011, 2:56 PM
Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

If the 12 convict you and you go to prison you'll for sure wish the gang had killed you on the street. ;)

Kid Stanislaus
09-03-2011, 2:59 PM
You did the smart thing Spirit, OP should follow your example.

caoboy
09-03-2011, 3:05 PM
Nah, KS, you tell them you killed a man in a duel, over a Nolan Ryan rookie card. Someone is bound to have your back in

caoboy
09-03-2011, 3:05 PM
Nah, KS, you tell them you killed a man in a duel, over a Nolan Ryan rookie card. Someone is bound to have your back in Prison after that!

oldrifle
09-03-2011, 3:18 PM
The code is: a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do. Your life is worth it.

Tarn_Helm
09-03-2011, 3:27 PM
I was living in Mississippi, working, caring for my family. Due to very extreme circumstances I came home one Friday night with a car load of empty boxes. Had dinner and afterwards went out and got the boxes, came in and started packing stuff up. My wife asked what I was doing, and I told her, "I'm moving to Florida. If you guys want to go with me there's more boxes out in the car." No questions or argument followed.

We got everything in the car and headed out. Made it to Loxley, Alabama before the engine blew. Stranded on the side of the freeway about 2AM, a semi-truck stopped to see what was going on [very unusual]. I told him the deal, and he saw my wife and kids in the car. Said, "Well, son, y'all get your stuff and shove it in this here sleeper...." and that blessed man trucked us to Pensacola, Florida. He said his truck wasn't running right, and he had to get a motel room for the night. We hung around the pool area with our belongings through the night, and in the morning his truck was gone. A motel employee came out to tell us he'd paid for a room for 3 days for us.

In the morning I went in and cut a deal for rent by the week, telling the owner/manager the situation straight up, and asking him if he knew of any jobs in the area? 10 days later the rent was up, I'd looked for work on foot every day. The motel manager hired me as Maintenance Supervisor of the motel, including free rent. Later got an apartment, but worked for him for a couple of years. We survived, thanks be to God. That's over 30 years ago, still surviving, thanks be to God.

All may sound crazy & extreme, unless you were there living it. Some local folks in ole Miss made it obvious they wanted this 'Californy boy' dead, and had made one attempt on my life that last day at work, which I survived, thanks be to God.

It wasn't what I would have chosen in life.

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.

A country boy can survive....

And survive you did, with your skin, your family, and your dignity intact--and not a shot fired, I'll wager.

The best part about it from our perspective is that you lived to tell about it and to pass on this little pearl of hard-earned wisdom to the OP.
My hat is off to you, Sir.

If we ever meet, the libation of your choice is yours, at my expense.

:cheers2:

chiselchst
09-03-2011, 3:47 PM
Leave Now - Move Later!

Spirit 1
09-03-2011, 6:21 PM
Thanks, guys, but it seemed a very simple choice at the time. Stay and possibly lose my life and leave my family defenseless & uncared for, or make a command decision on the spur of the moment that would at the least would solve all the immediate problems.

Interestingly, I was recently faced with the same decision. Stay in a small town as a caretaker of a property, but with a raging maniac living next door who was bound and determined to have the place to himself, or leave. This guy was a full blown alcoholic, mentally unstable with real serious psych problems, just the sort to kill you in a fit of blind rage. He often damaged my property in various ways, plus stealing stuff.

The other option was to lose about $25,000 worth of possessions, but move several hundred miles south to a secluded rural property on the side of a mountain overlooking a peaceful valley. I can see the valley as I type, and it's a wonderful, peaceful summer night to relax and enjoy life. Turns out I didn't NEED THAT 'STUFF' to be happy, and life is very good, because I still have one to live...

Anchors
09-03-2011, 6:24 PM
Thanks, guys, but it seemed a very simple choice at the time. Stay and possibly lose my life and leave my family defenseless & uncared for, or make a command decision on the spur of the moment that would at the least would solve all the immediate problems.

Interestingly, I was recently faced with the same decision. Stay in a small town as a caretaker of a property, but with a raging maniac living next door who was bound and determined to have the place to himself, or leave. This guy was a full blown alcoholic, mentally unstable with real serious psych problems, just the sort to kill you in a fit of blind rage. He often damaged my property in various ways, plus stealing stuff.

The other option was to lose about $25,000 worth of possessions, but move several hundred miles south to a secluded rural property on the side of a mountain overlooking a peaceful valley. I can see the valley as I type, and it's a wonderful, peaceful summer night to relax and enjoy life. Turns out I didn't NEED THAT 'STUFF' to be happy, and life is very good, because I still have one to live...

Sounds like he did you a favor! lol.
I want to live in the middle of nowhere like that. Bad.

Jake71
09-03-2011, 6:35 PM
OP how did that kid find out in the first place?

Did you open your mouth at the meeting and blab about what you did?

That was not very smart at all!

I thought the kid was a friend of the woman's son that we had themeeting at.

I was talking to the officer and he was sitting there listening and when my neighbor walked in the garage (open garage door) she asked him what he was doing there...

he got up and left.

you have no idea how uncomfortable it was watching him walk across the street and into the gangbangers house.

I looked at her and said "i thought that was eddie's friend" and she says no he lives over there.

the officer called her supervisor and had 3 units come by and stand there for our meeting along with the Pomona city councle woman who opted to attend. Apparently they dont get many volunteers to start community watches and when they do it quickly fades.

I know it's a lose lose situation in some respect but I'm solid in my resolve that I will not run only have to do this all over again in some other neighborhood. California will not get better if everyone runs at the first sign of trouble.

I don't expect to fight a giant battle in the streets and win but god dammit I will not go down like a cowering little ***** either.

we have a plan in place should something happen and guns placed strategically around the condo. Should something happen I'm always carrying or near something witha bit more firepower.

Those pre-ban 30 rounders are right next to a screw driver for the BB so if the shtf i'll just back the screw out and rock/roll.

the cellphone is actually the first thing I go for and my gf will be on the phone with dispatch (we dont call 911) and hopefully backup will be ont he way.

I'm always watching my back, rear view mirror, varying our route during the day and weekends... i try to think of everything.

Jake71
09-03-2011, 6:43 PM
I'm starting to think the OP is either a troll (masterfully done) or is stupid/prideful, in which case i wish him the best and hope he's just being paranoid and hasn't been greenlit.

give me a raise at work or give me a million dollars and we will move.

I dont have a for certain "i'm gonna get shot" but if you were turning in drug dealers and gangbangesr on a NIGHTLY basis... and pointed at by a few of them and eyeballed everytime you come/go... you'd probably be worried to.

When I call the cops they come within 2 minutes and knowing that they know who I am as well and that I dont BS them with silly crap they do come.

I do have pride in not giving up.. all my neighbors in our 14unit compelx are good people and they are tired of it as well, it's just breaking them out of their shell and getting them to stand up as well.

Before we moved in it was bad.. but they stood up and noone bothers with the property here except for some taggin. Then sometime last fall it picked up again, owners changed in a few condo's.. some gave up and moved... andnow it's back to "i dont want to be in danger" attitude.

However everyone here will call the cops if needed... we do look out for each other in that respect.

locosway
09-03-2011, 10:37 PM
6 or 12, you decide...

Doheny
09-03-2011, 10:55 PM
Are you hitting the bottle again, Jake? In this thread (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=374345) you say you had just finished off a bottle of wine, and tell us about the cheap stuff you drink for day-to-day drinking and getting drunk. You also mention you'd drink yourself out of house and home if you drank the expensive stuff.

It was a 2 buck chuck from Fresh and Easy.

For the every day drinking stuff and getting drunk on the cheap we get the wine that is 12 bottles for 20.00$. Unless I have some homebrew bottled.

We'd drink ourselves out of house/home if we drank the more expensive ones.

Your last couple of posts seem to ramble on a bit...

Just sayin'...

TitanIsrael
09-03-2011, 11:00 PM
Get more LEO'S involved and consider more centerfire rifles, they do have A.W.'s like it's candy. Sounds like S#%^+ is about to hit the fan, most likely they'll try when your getting out of the car.

Prayers are with you.

Kid Stanislaus
09-04-2011, 6:47 AM
I don't expect to fight a giant battle in the streets and win but god dammit I will not go down like a cowering little ***** either.


I sincerely hope your macho does not get you killed.

FrankoUSA
09-04-2011, 9:11 PM
they think u are alone, i still think u should have a block party HOT DOGS ARE CHEAP :mnl: :grilling: :mnl:

caoboy
09-04-2011, 9:38 PM
If I were local, I'd say make it a pot luck. Imagine the turnout, especially with people armed to the teeth. It'd be funny to march down to the bangers houses lined up and say "you feelin' lucky punk? Well, DO YA?!"

(In a perfect world, this would work, and they'd also not be living in the neighborhood.)

frankm
09-04-2011, 9:42 PM
Please don't assume that because I want to carry because of possible gang retaliation that I'm an Idiot.

I'm playing with the cards I'm dealt and I'm sorry some of you disagree.

I pray that you never have to be in my situation.

I've been in your situation, and I would consider you an idiot if you didn't carry.

Cuerno_de_Chivo
09-04-2011, 10:00 PM
To the person who said better tried by 12 than be carried by six, hell no! I'd rather be dead than go to jail.

Commiefornia
09-04-2011, 10:42 PM
Of your neighbors you can you really count on? Mobilize your entire neighborhood. You and your neighbors need to take back your neighborhood. A gang of chickensh*t punks against one of you is not good odds, but a gang of chickensh*t punks against your whole street is something else. Who else has dogs? Form a dog walking group.

I saw a news story once of a group of citizens taking back their neighborhood from a street gang by marching in protest every day and night. The gang wasn't reckless enough to take violent action against an entire neighborhood of citizens. When (not if) you do such a thing invite the media. Discreetly point out the punks to the cameras beforehand so they can show these chickensh*ts' faces on television.

Invite your local city councilperson and state rep. to come see for themselves the gang infestation in your area. I'd love to see any anti-gun lawmaker trade places with you. No lawmaker has the right to tell someone they can't defend themselves from bodily injury or death.

yelohamr
09-05-2011, 12:51 PM
Always be aware of your surroundings. Thirty some odd years ago I was the target of a criminal organization, that I had been doing surveillance on. I survived, they didn't. I quit my job, re-enlisted in the Marine Corps for 3 years and have been in CA ever since.

Tacobandit
09-05-2011, 1:20 PM
To the OP, start carrying, you have had contact with local law enforcement and they are aware of the situation, carry a card with you of the officers/sergeants you have contacted and should you get picked up by another officer have them call you, carrying concealed without a permit is still only a misdemeanor and you do fall under the penal code section that exempts you from the concealed carry laws, but as stated that is a defense you will use in court should you get charged. Have the local officer you are in contact with write you a letter to Baca requesting you get a LTC permit. If you are still denied I would simply still carry, if I were in your situation I would.

Tarn_Helm
09-05-2011, 4:34 PM
To the OP, start carrying, you have had contact with local law enforcement and they are aware of the situation, carry a card with you of the officers/sergeants you have contacted and should you get picked up by another officer have them call you, carrying concealed without a permit is still only a misdemeanor and you do fall under the penal code section that exempts you from the concealed carry laws, but as stated that is a defense you will use in court should you get charged. Have the local officer you are in contact with write you a letter to Baca requesting you get a LTC permit. If you are still denied I would simply still carry, if I were in your situation I would.

Doh!
Can't . . .
. . . stop . . .
. . . facepalm.

:facepalm:

Doesn't anyone make a habit of memorizing wise old sayings anymore?

Like this one: "Discretion is the better part of valor."

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

lhecker51
09-06-2011, 12:59 PM
(bold added by me)

True!!! :iagree:

You are outnumbered.

Don't feel like you are swallowing your pride.

Be realistic for now.

Do what you gotta do.

But move a.s.a.p.

You will never be safe there--and are not safe now.

Gangs follow no due process except for "PC 187 (http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-grieving-mom-targeted-eagle-rock,0,3222077.story)."

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/Aves43187.jpg
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment for non-profit research and educational purposes only. [Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ]

I know it is sad, but gang bangers are more effective at murder than the police are at protecting the citizen from them.

The questions you must ask yourself as an individual:

1. Am I willing to die or put my family at risk if I assist the police by making a statement that results in a gang retaliation threat?

2. Do you trust the police with protecting you and your family? They are not legally responsible to protect you. If they were, then there would be an endless parade of lawsuits for them not doing their job.

3. Am I willing to use deadly force?

4. If I am willing to use deadly force, how effective will that be against an entire gang?

Folks tend to be monkey-brained and will not back down. You need to look beyond the emotion and logically weigh the risk of being a dead crusader or not getting involved. Folks wonder why witnesses will not come forward but the police know very well. They cannot protect witnesses and do not have the resources to do so.

I recommend not getting involved unless you have an army of citizens that can tip the balance of power in your favor:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2009/09/27/895048/ash-street-shootout-the-night.html

And these were highly trained soldiers. I was stationed in Ft Lewis during this encounter and remember that the Tacoma police department initially wanted to charge all of the soldiers involved. This is a fact they refused to acknowledge.

The laws are written to protect the thugs and to incarcerate the law-abiding citizen. Sounds cynical, but it seems like every week there is another story supporting my cynicism.

Lost.monkey
09-06-2011, 1:27 PM
I hate the advice: Consider a move.

We all bet 30 year mortgages on our neighborhoods, and yet surrender them to the turds that would poison and murder our families. We can't keep retreating as the gangs move in, you simply must take a stand.

Go about your business, and if it looks like they are to make a move, blast em. Take down the graffiti, keep the cops in the loop, and take back your street.

Evil only prevails when good men fail to act.

lhecker51
09-06-2011, 1:53 PM
I hate the advice: Consider a move.

We all bet 30 year mortgages on our neighborhoods, and yet surrender them to the turds that would poison and murder our families. We can't keep retreating as the gangs move in, you simply must take a stand.

Go about your business, and if it looks like they are to make a move, blast em. Take down the graffiti, keep the cops in the loop, and take back your street.

Evil only prevails when good men fail to act.

You can do something about it, but you need organization and support of SEVERAL like minded individuals to do what the police will not do. Read my link to the Tacoma/Ranger article in my other response. The op needs to organize his fellow neighbors. If they refuse to help then why live in a neighborhood with flaky neighbors? The fact of the matter is criminals own the state of California. They own the streets and there is not a thing the police can do about it especially now in this economy.

Do I know what I am talking about? I think so. My ex-wife was assaulted at gun point and my sister in law was beaten into partial paralysis during a car jacking. Did we receive justice? Hell no! Could not even get a permit to carry concealed let alone justice! The piece of fecal matter that beat my sister in law only received four year is prison while she received a lifetime of having her diapers changed. My brother and I only have ourselves to blame for what happened to our wives. Because we played good little law abiding citizens, we left our spouses to the wolves and the wolves dined well. It's a sad state of affairs when the cops turn the victim into a criminal. I have carried for over 20 years illegally after my ex was assaulted. Guess that makes me just as bad as the thugs in law enforcement's eyes. I detest the attitude of those charged with enforcing the law when they would deny me my rights.

Any sheriffs trolling this forum that can justify disarming law abiding citizens? I guess I need a reminder of why we are a threat to public safety. My cousin is a sheriff in Kansas and agrees with most sheriffs in California and feels we are a threat. He is no longer on my Christmas card list.

lawaia
09-06-2011, 2:17 PM
I have carried for over 20 years illegally after my ex was assaulted. Guess that makes me just as bad as the thugs in law enforcement's eyes. I detest the attitude of those charged with enforcing the law when they would deny me my rights.

Any sheriffs trolling this forum that can justify disarming law abiding citizens? I guess I need a reminder of why we are a threat to public safety. My cousin is a sheriff in Kansas and agrees with most sheriffs in California and feels we are a threat. He is no longer on my Christmas card list.

You may want to consider applying for your "LTC", since you do live in a county that is "fairly" pro-ccw (now). Things are changing for the better. You will still have to dance a little dance, but you could very well end up carrying legally.

lhecker51
09-06-2011, 2:23 PM
You may want to consider applying for your "LTC", since you do live in a county that is "fairly" pro-ccw (now). Things are changing for the better. You will still have to dance a little dance, but you could very well end up carrying legally.
I currently live in Riverside county. We lost our application fees when we applied in Monterey back in 1985. What is to stop them from keeping my fees again? I read the Riverside policy regarding legitimate cause and self defense is explicitly listed as not being legitimate.

I do not need any ones approval to defend myself and my family. I would prefer to remain a criminal until the law is changed or the king decides to gift me with my rights. I remember the frustration of complying the stupid laws. I no longer comply and feel justified in my non-compliance. Should I be arrested for a CCW violation and denied forever my rights to own a gun, I will still not comply. My children are grown and on their own. I can sit the rest of my life in prison if it comes to that. I am a combat vet with over twenty years service and KNOW that it is my right to defend myself and no state will ever strip me of it.

chead
09-06-2011, 2:32 PM
Yes, but 'imminent danger' is very narrow: PC 12031 (http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12031.html)

And that's not going to keep you from being arrested, it just might get you out of being convicted.

Apply for the LTC. Even if you don't get it, the app will be on the record.

ETA Ah, 2 minutes later than jwkincal! (Though (j)(1) is more apt until a restraining order might be issued.)

That provision is to stipulate that you must call the police either before or after you fire, not that you need to apply for a permit while you're being mugged.

lawaia
09-06-2011, 2:33 PM
I currently live in Riverside county. We lost our application fees when we applied in Monterey back in 1985. What is to stop them from keeping my fees again? I read the Riverside policy regarding legitimate cause and self defense is explicitly listed as not being legitimate.

I do not need any ones approval to defend myself and my family. I would prefer to remain a criminal until the law is changed or the king decides to gift me with my rights. I remember the frustration of complying the stupid laws. I no longer comply and feel justified in my non-compliance. Should I be arrested for a CCW violation and denied forever my rights to own a gun, I will still not comply. My children are grown and on their own. I can sit the rest of my life in prison if it comes to that. I am a combat vet with over twenty years service and KNOW that it is my right to defend myself and no state will ever strip me of it.

OK. And thank you for your service!

frankm
09-06-2011, 2:48 PM
That's the sad state of affairs in KA. I know guys, who aren't criminals, who carry weapons all the time. They do it cause they can't get permits. Sad KA, protecting the criminal class over citizens. But, like in Poland a couple of years before the wall fell, people just stopped obeying the commies and did what they wanted anyway.

Librarian
09-06-2011, 3:03 PM
That provision is to stipulate that you must call the police either before or after you fire, not that you need to apply for a permit while you're being mugged.

Odd comment.

Of course that provision of 12031 is for carry "before or after you fire".

The advice to apply for the LTC was an independent suggestion, intended to assure the OP had dotted all the "i"s and crossed all the "t"s should some unsympathetic prosecutor be handed this situation as a case.

Lost.monkey
09-06-2011, 3:20 PM
That's the sad state of affairs in KA. I know guys, who aren't criminals, who carry weapons all the time. They do it cause they can't get permits. Sad KA, protecting the criminal class over citizens. But, like in Poland a couple of years before the wall fell, people just stopped obeying the commies and did what they wanted anyway.

And that's just it.... paper loses to lead every time. When all is said and done, they've created a ton of paper; now let them enforce it with any sense of justice. It's now down to blind, stupid, luck.

chead
09-06-2011, 3:53 PM
Odd comment.

Of course that provision of 12031 is for carry "before or after you fire".

The advice to apply for the LTC was an independent suggestion, intended to assure the OP had dotted all the "i"s and crossed all the "t"s should some unsympathetic prosecutor be handed this situation as a case.

Gotcha, mis-read it then. I was curious how you'd suggest filing the paperwork in the middle of a mugging ;)

Jake71
09-06-2011, 3:56 PM
I'm having another Community Watch meeting and am going to tell everyone that shows that they need to stand up.

A statement has already been made that if they come after anyone that goes to the meeting that they, specific individuals, will be gone after. I know that much for certain... whether or not any of us is alive at that point is another question.

I'm again, not certain that, as someone put it "green lighted me" but when they stare at you or come out of their apartment to watch you drive in the driveway to the complex or eyeball you as you walk around outside and talk to the neighbors... its an indication they arent coming over for a bbq anytime soon.

I'm taking precautions as best I can.. my gf as someone wanted to know is from Japan and has never fired a gun except once when I took her out. She knows how to rack a slide, take off safety etc.. I told her just point it at them and shoot till it stops shooting... change the mag and keep shooting till that one is empty.. then change to the last one and call the cops. I told her to empty two mags regardless of if they are moving or not.

I'm having the Vice/Gang officer I have corresponded with come by in the next few days and discuss the situation and what to do about it.

I'm trying to lay low and be very discreet in reporting them to minimize the potential for me to be fingered every time they get hassled but hey, they know it's probably me anyway.

I have a camera and they know I have at LEAST one because they have asked the neighbors son about it and why I have it... we are in the middle of the complex with a clear field of view all around and have one unit attached on one side so only 3 sides to defend.

I've given my gf instructions on what to do at home and on the street/away from home and as silly as this might sound, bought her some pepperspray for carrying to work.

I always watch our backs when out doing errands and at home I keep one eye out at all times.

One of the questions I asked the Gang Officer was "what sorts of retaliation am I to expect from these guys being most gangs are unpredictable?".... I didn't get a reply.

Carry I shall...hopefully someone will take my cause for legal carry as justified and sign off on it.

How long is the process? A couple weeks or are we talking forever and a day?

dantodd
09-06-2011, 4:00 PM
How long is the process? A couple weeks or are we talking forever and a day?

Forever and a Day. The important thing is that you make every effort to try and abide by California's ridiculous gun laws and have documentation to show that you are making every effort. In the mean time do everything you can to prevent becoming a victim.

blakdawg
09-06-2011, 6:03 PM
Carry I shall...hopefully someone will take my cause for legal carry as justified and sign off on it.

How long is the process? A couple weeks or are we talking forever and a day?

I honestly hope you get your LTC.

The most recent numbers I can find are for 2003 - the population of LA County was 9,871,506, and there were 1391 LTC's issued to those 9.8 million people.

The National Weather service estimates the likelihood of a person being struck by lightning during their lifetime as 1 in 10,000.

The MegaMillions lottery website estimates the chances that you would spend $1 on a lottery ticket and win $150 by matching 4 of 6 numbers as 1 in 15,313 + 1 in 13,781.

So, chance that an LA County resident has an LTC: 0.014091%
Chance of turning $1 into $150 with a lottery ticket: 0.013787%
Chance of being struck by lighting during your lifetime: 0.010000%

I think it makes sense to apply - but not because they're going to issue you an LTC; they're not going to.

Spirit 1
09-06-2011, 7:27 PM
I'm having another Community Watch meeting and am going to tell everyone that shows that they need to stand up.

A statement has already been made that if they come after anyone that goes to the meeting that they, specific individuals, will be gone after. I know that much for certain... whether or not any of us is alive at that point is another question.

I'm again, not certain that, as someone put it "green lighted me" but when they stare at you or come out of their apartment to watch you drive in the driveway to the complex or eyeball you as you walk around outside and talk to the neighbors... its an indication they arent coming over for a bbq anytime soon.

I'm taking precautions as best I can.. my gf as someone wanted to know is from Japan and has never fired a gun except once when I took her out. She knows how to rack a slide, take off safety etc.. I told her just point it at them and shoot till it stops shooting... change the mag and keep shooting till that one is empty.. then change to the last one and call the cops. I told her to empty two mags regardless of if they are moving or not.

I'm having the Vice/Gang officer I have corresponded with come by in the next few days and discuss the situation and what to do about it.

I'm trying to lay low and be very discreet in reporting them to minimize the potential for me to be fingered every time they get hassled but hey, they know it's probably me anyway.

I have a camera and they know I have at LEAST one because they have asked the neighbors son about it and why I have it... we are in the middle of the complex with a clear field of view all around and have one unit attached on one side so only 3 sides to defend.

I've given my gf instructions on what to do at home and on the street/away from home and as silly as this might sound, bought her some pepperspray for carrying to work.

I always watch our backs when out doing errands and at home I keep one eye out at all times.

One of the questions I asked the Gang Officer was "what sorts of retaliation am I to expect from these guys being most gangs are unpredictable?".... I didn't get a reply.

Carry I shall...hopefully someone will take my cause for legal carry as justified and sign off on it.

How long is the process? A couple weeks or are we talking forever and a day?

Ya know, I'm starting to see all kinds of problems here, not caused by gangbangers!

"I'm having another Community Watch meeting"

"A statement has already been made that if they come after anyone that goes to the meeting that they, specific individuals, will be gone after."

"I'm having the Vice/Gang officer I have corresponded with come by in the next few days..."

I wouldn't exactly call this low profile, trying to avoid problems. You've made it clear that you've called the police on them numerous times, and had the police often visit your own residence. If you're going to be first aggressor then you sure as heck should expect retaliation, and be prepared to deal with it. If not, then it isn't a good idea to stir it up in the first place! As in all this has started AFTER you first called the police on their activities, plus follow-up threats of 'paybacks' are then made against them, then more meetings at your house with police? Smart??? Uhhhhh, no.

Supposedly, "I'm taking precautions as best I can..." but then you follow with,

"my gf as someone wanted to know is from Japan and has never fired a gun except once when I took her out"

Then she's left home alone every day while you're at work?? That's sure not much in the way of precautions for her sake.

First you said a kid from the problem gang house was sitting right there listening to you admit calling the police on these guys, heard the whole story, and went straight back to the house to report it, but now you say,

"I'm again, not certain that, as someone put it "green lighted me..."

Obviously those two don't jive. Matter of fact, several things just don't add up at all. I'm outta here, getting too convoluted for me...

We are all, even eternally, responsible for our every action, wise or unwise, and the repercussions of them.

Jake71
09-06-2011, 7:58 PM
gf goes to work, I drop her off at the train station and pick her up every day, so she's not at home.

What would you prefer I do, sit here like a cowering little btccch and not try to make this part of the world a better place?

Run like a coward ?

Seriously.. ti's the mentality that "you'll never do anything to change it" that has gotten our country into this position.

community watch meetings so you know...are held several blocks away at a church so noone knows it's going on. I was stupid to have the first one here but smart enough to have the rest elsewhere.

So i'm standing up for what I believe in.... sue me for christs sake.

jjojjojoe
09-07-2011, 2:40 AM
Good luck, Jake. Prayin that you and your family will be safe out there. If your gf isn't great with a gun, maybe a Taser is a possible alternative. The C2 also comes in pink :o

Brown Rock
09-07-2011, 8:44 AM
http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x295/ih8suvz/images.jpg

Spirit 1
09-07-2011, 9:04 AM
gf goes to work, I drop her off at the train station and pick her up every day, so she's not at home.

What would you prefer I do, sit here like a cowering little btccch and not try to make this part of the world a better place?

Run like a coward ?

Seriously.. ti's the mentality that "you'll never do anything to change it" that has gotten our country into this position.

community watch meetings so you know...are held several blocks away at a church so noone knows it's going on. I was stupid to have the first one here but smart enough to have the rest elsewhere.

So i'm standing up for what I believe in.... sue me for christs sake.

Okay, let me explain that last comment. Say a guy posts that he's got some problems with gang boys, worried they might do him harm. Reason: he spoke negatively to neighbors about them but didn't know that one of those listening lived at their house. Now he's worried they'll come down on him for what he said, and he called the police out of fear of reprisals, of their trying to get even just because he talked about them. That's one picture, sort of similar to your first post.

Fact is, instead of that, he'd told neighbors about how he wanted the gangsters OUT! That they were criminals & dope dealers, and he'd first called police to come so he could report their illegal activities & either make life so miserable for them that they move out, or get them all busted with police assistance. He's now saying he's going to do whatever it takes to get them out or busted, one way or the other. He's also stirring all neighbors to side with him in his crusade, and is organizing a vigilance commitee to take every possible action against the gangbangers.

Mighty big difference there between a poor, innocent fella persecuted by big mean nasties, or a guy that pretty much went looking to cause them extreme trouble & grief and went out of his way to make it happen. So, excuse me sir, but what did you expect???

Then I found you weren't prepared for the consequences of your actions, and also put your girlfriend into possible extreme danger. You didn't bother to attend to her complete safety, insuring that she can fully defend herself on a moment's notice.

You declared a one man gangwar against vastly superior forces that live for violence while being totally unprepared for even the first skirmish. I don't know if you learned a lesson or not. I learned that one early. Sorry if it sounds insulting, but as you found out, the truth can hurt, and so can our hasty actions.

caoboy
09-07-2011, 9:41 AM
So you are saying he gets what he deserves? That's pretty harsh. It's not like he's the ******* neighbor that calls and complains because you parked in front of his house.

Tango_Whiskey
09-07-2011, 9:49 AM
As in physics: Every action has an equal opposite reaction.

Caladain
09-07-2011, 10:02 AM
So you are saying he gets what he deserves? That's pretty harsh. It's not like he's the ******* neighbor that calls and complains because you parked in front of his house.

No, more like he misrepresented the situation. He's the aggressor here (not a bad thing), so it falls to him to be prepared. The Old 7P's come to mind: Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.

Things he could have done before stirring the pot:
Investigated getting an LTC.
Trained his Significant other in handgun/longgun use.
Taken both him and his SigOther to a few dynamic handgun courses, such as offered by Magpul.
Acquired bullet proof vests/etc.
etc
etc.

blakdawg
09-07-2011, 12:48 PM
It's pretty much impossible for an ordinary person to take precautions sufficient to give them a good chance of avoiding a deliberate assassination - people with effectively infinite resources (e.g. heads of state) don't even manage to be perfectly successful at avoiding kidnappings/assassinations.

While buying/carrying lots of guns and taking lots of classes is a step in the right direction, the bottom line is that criminals can take advantage of the fact that it's not legally or socially acceptable to treat every person who comes within 100-200 yards of you as a threat.

This is even more troublesome if the bad guys know where you'll be day after day - either work or home or both. This is one of the reasons why lots of LEO's don't live in the places where they work - they want to put as much distance as possible between themselves and the bad guys who are especially pissed off at them.

I don't think anyone is saying that the OP deserves to have anything bad happen to him - but some people (including the OP) are saying that his actions have increased the likelihood that something bad will happen to him.

The bottom line is that our legal and social environment requires that most people spend most of their lives as effectively soft targets - which means the bad guys get a free first shot, and the good guy(s) will spend valuable time figuring out what's going on while the bad guys are attacking. We can take small steps to mitigate this - e.g., carrying a gun, wearing body armor, changing vehicles/travel routes - but these are all minor tweaks that don't really change the basic problem.

A step that would change the whole situation - such as relocating to a different place - works, but is expensive and does nothing to weaken the bad guys, who can then continue to terrorize others.

Not changing the situation may make life more difficult for the bad guys - at the same time that it makes life more difficult for the good guys.

The point of my original post - and that of some others - has been that a single concealed gun would allow the OP to have a greater variety of (hopefully successful) responses to an attempted assassination, but it's not going to prevent the attempt.

And given the tactical advantage the assassin(s) have, in that they choose the time, place, and method of attack, while it's a surprise for the target - the fact that the target has the capability to shoot back may not be enough to save them, especially if the first hit(s) are deadly or incapacitating.

justin_5585
09-07-2011, 4:02 PM
Sounds to me like an elaborate ruse to get LTC in LA. No sane person would go through all this risking the life of a loved one as well as their own over pride. As for the "can't move" argument, I see many of your recent posts are gun purchases. Perhaps that money would have been better put towards relocating. If your story is true, I'm sorry for doubting you, but don't die on this hill; swallow your pride and GTFO of there, dead is forever...

p_shooter
09-07-2011, 4:15 PM
...

We got everything in the car and headed out. Made it to Loxley, Alabama before the engine blew. Stranded on the side of the freeway about 2AM, a semi-truck stopped to see what was going on [very unusual]. I told him the deal, and he saw my wife and kids in the car. Said, "Well, son, y'all get your stuff and shove it in this here sleeper...." and that blessed man trucked us to Pensacola, Florida.....

What is it with Loxley, AL and Pensacola FL?
The differential on our 82 Plymouth Voyager van locked up and ripped a huge hole in the gas tank when the U-Joint sheared and the van burned to a pile of melted steel in about 5 minutes. Some off duty firefighters saw us stranded and took us to Pensacola in their car.

/threadjack

dantodd
09-07-2011, 4:31 PM
Fact is, instead of that, he'd told neighbors about how he wanted the gangsters OUT! That they were criminals & dope dealers, and he'd first called police to come so he could report their illegal activities & either make life so miserable for them that they move out, or get them all busted with police assistance. He's now saying he's going to do whatever it takes to get them out or busted, one way or the other. He's also stirring all neighbors to side with him in his crusade, and is organizing a vigilance commitee to take every possible action against the gangbangers.

Mighty big difference there between a poor, innocent fella persecuted by big mean nasties, or a guy that pretty much went looking to cause them extreme trouble & grief and went out of his way to make it happen. So, excuse me sir, but what did you expect???


I can't say I would have done it that way but I have respect for anyone willing to stand up to bullies. Even if it means they are putting their life on the line. The GF has free will and if she isn't willing to follow Jake she can leave but she chooses to stay and fight too. Perhaps she has more intestinal fortitude than most posters here too. If every gang-infested neighborhood had a couple "Jakes" who were willing to not only stand up to the gangs but also had the charisma and confidence to get the good people stuck in these places to stand beside him we'd be a better country.

Spirit 1
09-07-2011, 11:03 PM
What is it with Loxley, AL and Pensacola FL?
The differential on our 82 Plymouth Voyager van locked up and ripped a huge hole in the gas tank when the U-Joint sheared and the van burned to a pile of melted steel in about 5 minutes. Some off duty firefighters saw us stranded and took us to Pensacola in their car.

/threadjack


Hah, yeah, gotta make you wonder. Since then I heard other stories, like, "Oh, yeah, Loxley..." and they had problems too. For me it was ages ago so all I remember now is the good parts...

gnatnoop
09-08-2011, 1:37 PM
I dont know why but this thread made me think of this song. It might be because spirt1's story ended with a country boy can survive or because this might be what the op will end up doing if...

5YtvEn3Cvho

inbox485
09-09-2011, 9:10 AM
Actually, that *will* cause a massive escalation. You'd be a direct threat to their profits, and they will mess up the neighborhood..burn the houses, kill the old ladies, to *send a message*.

If your pride is not going to let you leave and put you and your loved ones in immediate and very, very real danger, wear armor, arm up, and wear your blood type on your boot and arm.

You watch too many movies. I've seen the opposite happen. Drug dealers take the path of least resistance.

Tarn_Helm
09-10-2011, 2:52 PM
You watch too many movies. I've seen the opposite happen. Drug dealers take the path of least resistance.

Do you have much experience with this milieu?

If so, how do you explain the story below?

How Highland Park’s Latino gang targets African-Americans (http://www.laweekly.com/2005-07-14/news/avenues-of-death/)
Christine Pelisek published: July 14, 2005 http://www.laweekly.com/content/printVersion/40412/

It has been nearly 10 years since Avenues boss and Mexican Mafia member Alex "Pee Wee" Aguirre was sentenced to a life term. He turned over partial control of the gang to his brother, Richard “Little Pee Wee” Aguirre, who was only 14 when he assumed the role of shot-caller in 1995. His reign lasted until 2001, when he was charged in a string of murders. It wasn't until this May that Little Pee Wee was convicted, a delay caused by the "difficult" task of getting gang members to cooperate with police. During the trial, two ex-Avenues members told shocking tales of robberies, assaults and murders. They gave details of life as tax collectors for the Mexican Mafia’s drug business and the penalties doled out to those who defied its will.

FBI agent Jerry Fradella tells of the meetings a clique of Avenues held off and on with some 50 members at the Montecito Heights Recreation Center to talk about the blacks in the neighborhood and how they had to get rid of them.

“They thought there were too many around,” said Fradella. “It is like a blanket policy for them.” John Berdin, who recently retired as LAPD’s Northeast homicide supervisor, said the Avenues have a well-documented history of attacking blacks dating to the early ’90s, when three black family members were shot and injured by gang members after they moved into an apartment on 58th and Benner streets in Highland Park.

“There are a lot of motivating factors,” he said. “There is a lot of hatred between Hispanics and blacks within the prison system. What happens on the inside translates to the outside. When there is an incident inside the penal system, it spreads to hate crimes on the street.” All that matters is the color of your skin.

Anthony Prudhomme was an easy target for the Avenues. He was naive, trustworthy and a friend to all.

So, you don't even have to be a threat, a "snitch," to get yourself killed.

In fact, this guy was a neighborhood pot head, whom the gang members could count on to not draw LEO attention to them.

And I do not call this the path of least resistance.

If you call this an atypical event, I will post another.

And another.

And another.

You feel me, Dawg?

***

Comment to OP: I now think you are reckless.

Good luck with your little war.

I expect to read about you in the L.A. Times Homicide Report as a victim.

See ya.
:facepalm:

Librarian
09-10-2011, 2:54 PM
I believe everything, useful and otherwise, has been said here.

Closed.