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View Full Version : False 5250 hold, can i get my right restored and how?


Loyaltyisgolden
08-29-2011, 9:10 PM
I was held on a 5150 when I was 14, I did not want to harm my self or others but i was arguing with my mother. On the 3rd day I was going to be released to my parents but i didnt want to go home. The hospital then certified me under 5250 and code 3 which is gravely disabled I looked up the meaning and it states "being homeless is not a reason for grave disability". I seen the chart and it said I did not make any threats and I was making progress. I didnt not know how that could affect me at that time.
I turned 18 and tried to purchase a shotgun and i was denied and I found out it was due to my 5250 , i did not appeal . I am now 21 years old , a father of 2, and a owner of a tattoo shop. I have found out I was falsey* held under 5250, I should have been offered a voluntary hold. I have been working with a patient rights advocate and she reviewed my chart and saw the hospital had no right to hold me under 5250 they should have either released me to a willing family member, or held me as a voluntary hold. I went through the DOJ and set a court date to have my right granted back. I went to the court in San joaquin county and the D.A and the Judge had no objection and gave me my right back. However I know the ferderal lifetime ban.

My question is I know there has to be a way I can get my right back when it shouldnt have been revoked in the first place. I have tried google search and I have found very little info how to start the process. I know of the NICS appeal but I want to know if there is any other steps involved. Any help is greatly appreciated . Thank you for your time.

taperxz
08-29-2011, 9:26 PM
You need to figure out who is local to you Don Kilmer (norcal) or Jason Davis (socal) both are lawyers that specialize in this type of thing.

Gray Peterson
08-29-2011, 9:28 PM
I was held on a 5150 when I was 14, I did not want to harm my self or others but i was arguing with my mother. On the 3rd day I was going to be released to my parents but i didnt want to go home. The hospital then certified me under 5250 and code 3 which is gravely disabled I looked up the meaning and it states "being homeless is not a reason for grave disability". I seen the chart and it said I did not make any threats and I was making progress. I didnt not know how that could affect me at that time.
I turned 18 and tried to purchase a shotgun and i was denied and I found out it was due to my 5250 , i did not appeal . I am now 21 years old , a father of 2, and a owner of a tattoo shop. I have found out I was falsey* held under 5250, I should have been offered a voluntary hold. I have been working with a patient rights advocate and she reviewed my chart and saw the hospital had no right to hold me under 5250 they should have either released me to a willing family member, or held me as a voluntary hold. I went through the DOJ and set a court date to have my right granted back. I went to the court in San joaquin county and the D.A and the Judge had no objection and gave me my right back. However I know the ferderal lifetime ban.

My question is I know there has to be a way I can get my right back when it shouldnt have been revoked in the first place. I have tried google search and I have found very little info how to start the process. I know of the NICS appeal but I want to know if there is any other steps involved. Any help is greatly appreciated . Thank you for your time.

I would contact Donald Kilmer (http://www.dklawoffice.com) or Jason Davis (http://www.calgunlawyers.com).

If this is correct what you're saying, that the reasoning for the 5250 is completely incorrect, you may be able to have the 5250 hold set aside with a what's called a "Writ of Error Coram Nobis". Contact Don or Jason, or you can also contact the CalGuns Foundation as well.

Loyaltyisgolden
08-29-2011, 9:35 PM
Thank you for the info, I will check it out. I really dont have alot of funds for a lawyer. Is there a way i can start this on my own? And also do i need to startthe NICS appeal aswell?

taperxz
08-29-2011, 9:37 PM
Thank you for the info, I will check it out. I really dont have alot of funds for a lawyer. Is there a way i can start this on my own? And also do i need to startthe NICS appeal aswell?

I'm not a lawyer but in this case i would say its best to get one. JMHO

taperxz
08-29-2011, 9:39 PM
The link Gray gave you to the calguns foundation will give you the best answers. CONTACT THEM! I believe there advice is free.

philobeddoe
08-29-2011, 9:47 PM
Cannot tell from the OP, but you do not want the 5250 revoked and your rights restored, but rather the 5250 expunged as it was placed in error. There should be no remaining record of the 5250, anywhere, even that it was placed in error. Completely expunged by Court Order, under seal. I think you may need an attorney. Good luck.

hoffmang
08-29-2011, 10:11 PM
Thank you for the info, I will check it out. I really dont have alot of funds for a lawyer. Is there a way i can start this on my own? And also do i need to startthe NICS appeal aswell?

The only way you're likely to get your rights restored is with a lawyer. You're also not going to succeed without a good lawyer. I'd suggest starting to save up.

-Gene

Gray Peterson
08-29-2011, 10:17 PM
Thank you for the info, I will check it out. I really dont have alot of funds for a lawyer. Is there a way i can start this on my own? And also do i need to startthe NICS appeal aswell?

Do not start anything with NICS at all. If the 5250 was actually an error not brought to attention during trial, then it's likely a coram nobis.

Wikiapedia's Entry on Involuntary Psych Holds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(Involuntary_psychiatric_hold)).

Wherryj
08-30-2011, 9:51 AM
The only way you're likely to get your rights restored is with a lawyer. You're also not going to succeed without a good lawyer. I'd suggest starting to save up.

-Gene

I'd consider this rather similar to a patient who tells me that he doesn't have insurance, "So do you have any tips for me to remove my own appendix?"

andytothemax
08-31-2011, 5:35 AM
I was held on a 5150 when I was 14, I did not want to harm my self or others but i was arguing with my mother. On the 3rd day I was going to be released to my parents but i didnt want to go home. The hospital then certified me under 5250 and code 3 which is gravely disabled I looked up the meaning and it states "being homeless is not a reason for grave disability". I seen the chart and it said I did not make any threats and I was making progress. I didnt not know how that could affect me at that time.
I turned 18 and tried to purchase a shotgun and i was denied and I found out it was due to my 5250 , i did not appeal . I am now 21 years old , a father of 2, and a owner of a tattoo shop. I have found out I was falsey* held under 5250, I should have been offered a voluntary hold. I have been working with a patient rights advocate and she reviewed my chart and saw the hospital had no right to hold me under 5250 they should have either released me to a willing family member, or held me as a voluntary hold. I went through the DOJ and set a court date to have my right granted back. I went to the court in San joaquin county and the D.A and the Judge had no objection and gave me my right back. However I know the ferderal lifetime ban.

My question is I know there has to be a way I can get my right back when it shouldnt have been revoked in the first place. I have tried google search and I have found very little info how to start the process. I know of the NICS appeal but I want to know if there is any other steps involved. Any help is greatly appreciated . Thank you for your time.

Were you actually adjudicated as gravely disabled by a hearing officer under 5250, or did the hospital just "certify" you and then release you before the hearing? If you never had a hearing, you should be good to go under federal law because you were never "adjudicated" as a "mental defective" by a "judge, board, commission, or other lawful authority" (question 11.f. on the 4473).

I had a client who was "certified" by the attending physician but then changed to voluntary status before the certification hearing because he got better. No hearing occurred. He wasn't denied when he subsequently purchased several guns.

I concur with the other replies that you should start saving for an attorney now, and the two fine attorneys linked above would be excellent choices. You're only 21 with your whole life ahead of you, so it's worth the wait. I would provide further input but writs of error coram nobis and/or declaratory relief in federal court are not my area of law.

keymakerwolf
11-20-2012, 5:10 PM
Any Update on what happened, I have a Similar case and I'm Just 26, Was hospitalized when I was still 18 or 19 I don't even Remember, Everything was good with me but the Dr Wanted to keep an Eye On Me, I was Young, Stupid and wanted to call attention but After talking to the Dr I told Him It was a Big Mistake and I wanted to Go Out of there cause it was not my Place. He said He was going to detain me there Until He was sure, I Didn't know what that meant Until few Months ago, I Purchased a House in a Nice place that's why I didn't worry about adding alarm soon, Oh My Surprise somebody broke into my House and Stole things, Long Story Short I decided no matter how safe a neighborhood looks I wanted to have a Security Gun to protect my house and My Family ( Fiance and Future babies ) went to The Store applied for a Gun Licence waited the 30 days for the check and OH MY SURPRISE !!!! I am banned for life !!! I am Socked !!! What Can I Do, I am a Law abiding Citizen and I will NOT buy an Illegal Gun, The Problem Is the Bad People dont care about legal... Anyways. Anybody has any Idea how much a Lawyer will cost me ?

OleCuss
11-20-2012, 7:36 PM
I think you have the right idea. You need a good lawyer, and a good lawyer is going to cost you a goodly amount.

You won't have a reasonable expectation as to the cost of the lawyer until you've had a good consultation.

I'm not even close to a lawyer, but I'm betting you'd want to bring the psych hospital records with you along with any court proceedings. I'd probably also do a PFEC and bring the results with you as well.

bobgengeskahn
11-20-2012, 7:54 PM
My gravest sympathies. I went through a similar process not too long ago. It sounds like you have started going down the right roads and done your homework. Like the others have said, get in contact with a CGF lawyer ASAP, at the very least for a consult to get you going in the right direction.

I made the mistake of going through my process with an attorney that was not with CGF. He is a very good lawyer and helped me out a lot, and we ultimately were able to get my appeal though; but it was a huge learning process for the both of us, and I did a lot of my own leg work getting documents and such to save on the hourly rate that I was paying him for the case.

joemama
11-20-2012, 10:20 PM
Any Update on what happened, I have a Similar case and I'm Just 26, Was hospitalized when I was still 18 or 19 I don't even Remember, Everything was good with me but the Dr Wanted to keep an Eye On Me, I was Young, Stupid and wanted to call attention but After talking to the Dr I told Him It was a Big Mistake and I wanted to Go Out of there cause it was not my Place. He said He was going to detain me there Until He was sure, I Didn't know what that meant Until few Months ago, I Purchased a House in a Nice place that's why I didn't worry about adding alarm soon, Oh My Surprise somebody broke into my House and Stole things, Long Story Short I decided no matter how safe a neighborhood looks I wanted to have a Security Gun to protect my house and My Family ( Fiance and Future babies ) went to The Store applied for a Gun Licence waited the 30 days for the check and OH MY SURPRISE !!!! I am banned for life !!! I am Socked !!! What Can I Do, I am a Law abiding Citizen and I will NOT buy an Illegal Gun, The Problem Is the Bad People dont care about legal... Anyways. Anybody has any Idea how much a Lawyer will cost me ?

30 days for a gun license and check???

Mssr. Eleganté
11-20-2012, 10:41 PM
Any Update on what happened, I have a Similar case and I'm Just 26, Was hospitalized when I was still 18 or 19 I don't even Remember, Everything was good with me but the Dr Wanted to keep an Eye On Me, I was Young, Stupid and wanted to call attention but After talking to the Dr I told Him It was a Big Mistake and I wanted to Go Out of there cause it was not my Place. He said He was going to detain me there Until He was sure, I Didn't know what that meant Until few Months ago, I Purchased a House in a Nice place that's why I didn't worry about adding alarm soon, Oh My Surprise somebody broke into my House and Stole things, Long Story Short I decided no matter how safe a neighborhood looks I wanted to have a Security Gun to protect my house and My Family ( Fiance and Future babies ) went to The Store applied for a Gun Licence waited the 30 days for the check and OH MY SURPRISE !!!! I am banned for life !!! I am Socked !!! What Can I Do, I am a Law abiding Citizen and I will NOT buy an Illegal Gun, The Problem Is the Bad People dont care about legal... Anyways. Anybody has any Idea how much a Lawyer will cost me ?

We can't answer any further questions until you explain why you randomly capitalize certain words. The Form 4473 that you have to fill out when you purchase a firearm asks if you randomly capitalize words, and if you answer "yes" to that question the dealer can't release the firearm to you.

keymakerwolf
11-23-2012, 12:35 PM
Its a habit, I capitalize words Since I was in High School, I Graduated from a Software Developer High School I would Say, Got me used to type Like that because of Visual Foxpro Programming If I remember correctly Most of the new Code Lines had to be in Capital. Lol, Is that bad? what does it have to do with my question ? And yes 30 days Was what I had to wait to find Out I was banned for life, I have read some info here that is already giving me good Ideas, but if you guys have more information I will appreciate it, I have already requested my file from the hospital, I don't want to be banned from my right to bear arms. Happy Holidays everybody :)

wildhawker
11-23-2012, 1:05 PM
Re-read this thread. As A General rule, you're not Going to see lawyers' Rates For Such services quoted Online.

-brandon

good
08-11-2013, 4:02 PM
Were you actually adjudicated as gravely disabled by a hearing officer under 5250, or did the hospital just "certify" you and then release you before the hearing? If you never had a hearing, you should be good to go under federal law because you were never "adjudicated" as a "mental defective" by a "judge, board, commission, or other lawful authority" (question 11.f. on the 4473).

I had a client who was "certified" by the attending physician but then changed to voluntary status before the certification hearing because he got better. No hearing occurred. He wasn't denied when he subsequently purchased several guns.

I concur with the other replies that you should start saving for an attorney now, and the two fine attorneys linked above would be excellent choices. You're only 21 with your whole life ahead of you, so it's worth the wait. I would provide further input but writs of error coram nobis and/or declaratory relief in federal court are not my area of law.


Hi Andy,

I was also recently held under 5250 on false assumption that I am gravely disabled and cannot provide for my expenses. I believe it was an incorrect 5250 hold and I should have been discharged right away/earlier or at the Certification Hearing, and I a would like to have the state and federal rights restored by setting 5250 aside. Do you know if the Writ of Error Coram Nobis to set 5250 aside in the Los Angeles County Superior Court Department 95 would be a sealed or unsealed record?

good
08-11-2013, 4:04 PM
I would contact Donald Kilmer (http://www.dklawoffice.com) or Jason Davis (http://www.calgunlawyers.com).

If this is correct what you're saying, that the reasoning for the 5250 is completely incorrect, you may be able to have the 5250 hold set aside with a what's called a "Writ of Error Coram Nobis". Contact Don or Jason, or you can also contact the CalGuns Foundation as well.

Hi Gray,

I was also recently held under 5250 on false assumption that I am gravely disabled and cannot provide for my expenses. I believe it was an incorrect 5250 hold and I should have been discharged right away/earlier or at the Certification Hearing, and I a would like to have the state and federal rights restored by setting 5250 aside. Do you know if the Writ of Error Coram Nobis to set 5250 aside in the Los Angeles County Superior Court Department 95 would be a sealed or unsealed record?

good
08-11-2013, 4:09 PM
Cannot tell from the OP, but you do not want the 5250 revoked and your rights restored, but rather the 5250 expunged as it was placed in error. There should be no remaining record of the 5250, anywhere, even that it was placed in error. Completely expunged by Court Order, under seal. I think you may need an attorney. Good luck.

Hi Phil,

I was also recently held under 5250 on false assumption that I am gravely disabled and cannot provide for my expenses. I believe it was an incorrect 5250 hold and I should have been discharged right away/earlier or at the Certification Hearing, and I a would like to have the state and federal rights restored by setting 5250 aside. Do you know if the Writ of Error Coram Nobis to set 5250 aside in the Los Angeles County Superior Court Department 95 would be a sealed or unsealed record?

Zedrek
08-12-2013, 12:45 PM
Hi Andy,

I was also recently held under 5250 on false assumption that I am gravely disabled and cannot provide for my expenses. I believe it was an incorrect 5250 hold and I should have been discharged right away/earlier or at the Certification Hearing, and I a would like to have the federal rights restored by setting 5250 aside. Do you know if it should be done in the district Federal Court? And should it be declaratory relief motion or should is it Writ of Error Coram Nobis that should be heard in the Federal Court? I would greatly appreciate your advice and help as to in which court (State Mental Court or district Federal Court) should 5250 be set aside?

A 5250 is a continuation of an involuntary 5150 72 hour hold. I would be highly surprised that one can be held on a 5250 hold for grave disability and it be incorrect in these recent times. None the less, if you wish to pursue this you should click the links in Gray Peterson's post above.

OleCuss
08-12-2013, 2:25 PM
Seriously, a sophisticated answer to this question is likely to require access to your very confidential records - and an attorney with specialized skills.

You should not release those records to us and those attorneys are not going to answer your question on-line.

Contacting a group like Chuck Michel's, Don Kilmer, or Jason Davis is likely your best bet.

good
08-12-2013, 9:36 PM
A 5250 is a continuation of an involuntary 5150 72 hour hold. I would be highly surprised that one can be held on a 5250 hold for grave disability and it be incorrect in these recent times. None the less, if you wish to pursue this you should click the links in Gray Peterson's post above.

Yes, 5250 was a continuation of the 5150 hold. I was on 5150 for over a day and then transferred to a different location for observation. It was incorrect and I should have been discharged at the Certification Review hearing as I was always providing for my expenses and my family also signed a statement that they were willing to support me if needed in accordance with WIC 5250 (d) (1) and (2).