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Leadmaster
08-29-2011, 3:24 PM
I hope this is the right place for this...

But anyway my question is, I am 18 right now and was wondering if I would be able to purchase a completed ar15 lower reciever with a stock?

-Thanks

Librarian
08-29-2011, 3:29 PM
Should be able to - with a stock, should be a 'rifle' and therefore OK for 18 and older.

dfletcher
08-29-2011, 3:36 PM
Should be able to - with a stock, should be a 'rifle' and therefore OK for 18 and older.

An AR 15 lower with a buttstock attached (no +16" upper) is still "other" according to ATF and could be assembled as a handgun. Since it's a PPT I don't know if the thing's already been 4473'd as a long gun, in which case it should remain as a long gun. But if all it's ever been is a lower with buttstock attached it could still be assembled (in ATF eyes) as a handgun, CA foolishness aside.

If the AR stocked lower was bought in CA (4473'd as other, DROS'd as long gun) I think he'd have to be 21 since according to federal law it still could be assembled as a handgun. But, if the AR stocked lower started life anywhere as a fully assembled AR 15 and was 4473'd as a long gun - I'd say in theory he should be able to buy it because it can not legally be assembled as a handgun. But I think a CA FFL would err on the side of requiring 21 YO.

Leadmaster
08-29-2011, 3:52 PM
so basically id have to ask the person im buying it from whether he got the lower reciever from a long gun he previously purchased?

Id probably also have to check with the FFL too

Librarian
08-29-2011, 4:48 PM
An AR 15 lower with a buttstock attached (no +16" upper) is still "other" according to ATF and could be assembled as a handgun. Since it's a PPT I don't know if the thing's already been 4473'd as a long gun, in which case it should remain as a long gun. But if all it's ever been is a lower with buttstock attached it could still be assembled (in ATF eyes) as a handgun, CA foolishness aside.

If the AR stocked lower was bought in CA (4473'd as other, DROS'd as long gun) I think he'd have to be 21 since according to federal law it still could be assembled as a handgun. But, if the AR stocked lower started life anywhere as a fully assembled AR 15 and was 4473'd as a long gun - I'd say in theory he should be able to buy it because it can not legally be assembled as a handgun. But I think a CA FFL would err on the side of requiring 21 YO.

Oy.

<lolcat>I can haz BATFE disbanded?</lolcat>

So, no, not for you very dangerous 18, 19 and 20 year olds, unless sold with an upper. You need to acquire complete weapons, not pieces, because that's safer.

dantodd
08-29-2011, 4:53 PM
I wish we had a CA DoJ letter on this topic, it could be very important. VERY.

GMG
08-29-2011, 5:05 PM
Last week I did a striped lower transfer and the FFL replied to the buyer just turned 21 eh!

Leadmaster
08-29-2011, 5:51 PM
I also wanted to say this would be a FTF transfer. If that makes any difference... :confused:

And would having the upper reciever with me that im putting on the lower help?

dantodd
08-29-2011, 7:04 PM
I also wanted to say this would be a FTF transfer. If that makes any difference... :confused:

And would having the upper reciever with me that im putting on the lower help?

If you have the upper just hand it to the seller of the lower in the parking lot and let him mount it. Then ppt the weapon as a rifle.

dfletcher
08-29-2011, 9:19 PM
I also wanted to say this would be a FTF transfer. If that makes any difference... :confused:

And would having the upper reciever with me that im putting on the lower help?

I think that would resolve the issue simply and without drama. Present the assembled rifle to the FFL without comment, DROS as a long gun and all is well.

jamesob
08-29-2011, 9:35 PM
if its a ppt the odds are its already drosed in california as a rifle. if thats the case couldn't he buy a stripped lower via ppt?

stix213
08-29-2011, 9:39 PM
if its a ppt the odds are its already drosed in california as a rifle. if thats the case couldn't he buy a stripped lower via ppt?

If I'm not mistaken, I believe its the federal requirement that it has to be a rifle or shotgun that's the issue. The feds don't use PRK definitions. Someone correct me if I'm spreading FUD

Quiet
08-30-2011, 5:19 AM
Federal laws [18 USC 922(b)(1)] prohibits a FFL dealer from transfering a firearm, other than a rifle or a shotgun, to a person under 21 years of age.

A complete AR lower reciever does not meet the definition of a rifle [18 USC 921(a)(7)] or a shotgun [18 USC 921(a)(5)].

Therefore, a FFL dealer can not transfer a complete AR lower reciever to a person under 21 years of age.



18 USC 922
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;

18 USC 921
(a) As used in this chapter—
(5) The term “shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
(7) The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.

tenpercentfirearms
08-30-2011, 6:04 AM
It has nothing to do with handguns and everything to do with the Federal definition of a rifle. A rifle needs a rifled bore to be a rifle. A stripped or complete lower does not have a rifled bore, hence it is now an other and you cannot purchase it until you turn 21.

If you can find an upper anywhere to borrow and stick on the lower for the transfer, you would be fine. Then simply return the upper to the owner after you take possession of it again. If you are anywhere close to Taft, CA I will loan you one from my personal collection for the transfer.