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View Full Version : Tungston Guide Rod make a big difference for a Glock 23?


Husker16
08-28-2011, 8:50 AM
Glock World has them for 49 bucks and was wondering if it is money well spent????

Oceanbob
08-28-2011, 9:47 AM
My opinion only.

50 bucks for a heavier guide rod that adds a little bit of weight to the front on the pistol is a waste of money.

Especially on a weapon with a short 'arm' like the 23. Not as much 'leverage' compared to a Glock 34 with a long (arm) slide.

The purpose of adding weight is to lessen muzzle flip or felt recoil. The Glock 23 is already an easy weapon to control and shoot.

Stick with stock glock parts, use that $50 to buy ammo :D

Be well, Bob

elsolo
08-28-2011, 11:22 AM
Adding weight up front will change the way the gun tracks during recoil.

Will you notice the difference?
Will it be in improvement or a detriment for you?

I would say try it if you are curious, it's just a drop-in part that can be dropped-out without commitment. It won't be a BIG difference, and it's a personal feel thing without a universal answer.

vintagearms
08-28-2011, 12:03 PM
Glock World has them for 49 bucks and was wondering if it is money well spent????

Nothing wrong with a stock guide rod. I dont think you will see a noticable difference especially with a G23.

003
08-28-2011, 12:42 PM
I have one on both my 17 and 34. While I realize it is subjective, it does appear to me to reduce muzzle flip so that I can get back on target faster.

Sturnovik
08-28-2011, 12:51 PM
Nothing wrong with a stock guide rod. I dont think you will see a noticable difference especially with a G23.

Yea, if it aint broke dont fix it. In any case, I've heard some people seem to like this upgrade.

Husker16
08-28-2011, 1:20 PM
Thanks for the posts!

locosway
08-28-2011, 11:47 PM
Glock World has them for 49 bucks and was wondering if it is money well spent????

A stock guide rod/spring is $10 or less, and was designed specifically for your pistol. They're designed to last thousands of rounds, and the newer ones will handle the heat of shooting 1k+ rounds without stopping. The only advantage you would get from going to a tungsten guide rod would be weight up front, however you need to be careful when changing the balance and/or rigidity of the firearm. They're designed to flex, and if they can't flex you could end up with FTF problems.

This was an issue Glock ran into when they started selling lights for their guns. The fix was a new magazine spring which was stronger than the old one. I don't recall how many coils, but I think it was 13 vs the old 11 coils.

Personally, I run the stock guide rod, and I keep a spare just in case it ever breaks. Keep in mind that if it does break, the gun will still function properly until you disassemble it.

RollingCode3
08-28-2011, 11:56 PM
Save money on ammo....

Seiran
08-29-2011, 12:27 AM
As someone who did this because I was curious if it would do anything, save your money. Keep it stock.

darmog
08-29-2011, 12:50 AM
Did this with my XDM 4.5" All it really did was make the gun feel heavier. It if changed the felt recoil or aid in reducing muzzle flip, I couldn't tell. The tungsten guide rod for the XDM is also $30 or so more expensive than your glock one. I'd say save your money. Do what I did and get an all metal gun if you really want a softer shooter.

cmoore
08-29-2011, 2:35 AM
I have a Hart reducer in a Gen 1 (circa 1985) G17 and have had no problems at all. Tungsten, mercury and 2-3 ballbearings inside. Not a HUGE difference in recoil, but it is slightly noticable.

A must-have? I don't think so. I've always had equal success with proper grip and trigger reset. Spend the cash on good ammo.

Target19
08-29-2011, 2:40 AM
I have been warned that tungsten guide rods are not suitable long usage.
They usually don't last as long as polymer or steel and should not be used in service or duty guns.

jeffrice6
08-29-2011, 2:48 AM
Had one on a 17, will never do it again! Save your $

till44
08-29-2011, 11:08 AM
I've heard countless Glock armorers all say the same thing, "Use OEM parts, they're cheaper, cause less problems, and work just as well."

Save your money and buy a few boxed of ammo.

Lead Waster
08-29-2011, 11:16 AM
How much more does that guide rod actually weigh? If you wanted to test it, could you test it by (heh heh) duct taping some weights (bullets) to the front of the frame?

saki302
08-29-2011, 2:32 PM
The only benefit of swapping the rod is that you can put any weight spring you choose.

The OEM GLock 23 recoil spring is the SAME as the GLock 19 (or at leat it used to be). That is grossly underspring for a .40- swapping in a heavier recoil spring (heaviest weight by Wolff in mine) results in less battering of the frame and slide and a smoother shooting gun. I've never experienced any limp wrist jams with the G23 either.

-Dave

locosway
08-29-2011, 2:35 PM
The only benefit of swapping the rod is that you can put any weight spring you choose.

The OEM GLock 23 recoil spring is the SAME as the GLock 19 (or at leat it used to be). That is grossly underspring for a .40- swapping in a heavier recoil spring (heaviest weight by Wolff in mine) results in less battering of the frame and slide and a smoother shooting gun. I've never experienced any limp wrist jams with the G23 either.

-Dave

You really can't battery the frame on a Glock. In fact, the frame flexes in all calibers to help absorb recoil.

The only people I know who're worried about their recoil springs are professional competition shooters. I guess if you wanted a dedicated race gun, then knock yourself out. I'll stick with the cheap factory spring.

code33
08-29-2011, 2:37 PM
Use the funds toward a light instead. That will put some weight on the front end.

IPSICK
08-29-2011, 3:57 PM
I changed to a steel guide rod from Wolff Gunsprings on my G19 and liked the change in recoil impulse a lot. YMMV.

*Btw, I personally would not spend money on a tungsten rod, which I've heard can be prone to breakage, when a steel rod can be had for half the price or less.

Voo
08-29-2011, 8:01 PM
I have an 'EXTENDED' tungsten guide rod for my G34 USPSA gun.. It is maybe 1/2 inch longer than the standard guide rod length, thus putting more weight out forward where it helps the most.

I'll also say that after a few months trying it out in competition, I removed it and a regular steel (non-captive) one went in. The tungsten rod definitely changed the recoil impulse, but it didnt' really help the gun shoot any 'flatter'. Maybe it was just a mental thing, but it felt more cumbersome with the added weight when running about and transitioning from target to target.

On something even shorter like a G23, shooting .40 cal, I dont' think it's going to help much. You're probably better off working on your grip to help manage the recoil instead.

saki302
08-30-2011, 4:25 PM
The heavy spring does help with the abrupt slap in the recoil stroke a lot- If you shot my pistol side by side you'd really feel the difference. Anything can get battered if you fire it enough :D

As I said, it's improbable that a 9mm and a .40 in the same gun would use the same recoil spring weight when the .40 is at least 20-25% more powerful. JMO anyways.

-Dave

blakdawg
08-30-2011, 5:15 PM
According to the 2002 Glock Armorer's manual the part number for the recoil spring assembly and associated models was:

SP01533, G17/G22/G24/G31/G34/G35
SP02457, G19/G23/G32
SP05586, G20/G21
SP02211, G26/G27/G33
SP08063, G29/G30/G36

This is no longer the case with the Gen 4's.

The weight of the slides was adjusted so that the spring was subject to approximately the same forces despite different applications (e.g., 19 vs 23).

saki302
09-01-2011, 1:09 PM
Finally, a non-cosmetic useful change by Glock :)

-Dave


This is no longer the case with the Gen 4's.

The weight of the slides was adjusted so that the spring was subject to approximately the same forces despite different applications (e.g., 19 vs 23).

ADAM
09-01-2011, 3:56 PM
sounds like you got cash to burn.

Dhena81
09-01-2011, 4:26 PM
I think the whole reason people started buying into the metal guide rod spring is because what they were used to was having a metal GRS. Plastic may not be as tough if you try and deliberately break it in two but Plastic does hold lubrication better than metal and your supposed to lubricate your rod :D

gorenut
09-01-2011, 5:22 PM
My opinion only.

50 bucks for a heavier guide rod that adds a little bit of weight to the front on the pistol is a waste of money.

Especially on a weapon with a short 'arm' like the 23. Not as much 'leverage' compared to a Glock 34 with a long (arm) slide.

The purpose of adding weight is to lessen muzzle flip or felt recoil. The Glock 23 is already an easy weapon to control and shoot.

Stick with stock glock parts, use that $50 to buy ammo :D

Be well, Bob

I agree with this. If you really want some added weight.. buy a weapon light or something... at least you get another function out of it. You can sometimes get TLR-3s for around $50. I never found Glocks difficult to control anyways.. so don't see the real point in adding more weight.

aermotor
09-01-2011, 6:04 PM
If anything Stainless Steel is worth it. Tungsten is just an absolute waste of money.

From Glock Talk

The Great Guiderod/Spring debate;


Your stock guiderod will NOT melt. It is used in the G18 (full auto), it is effectively cooled every time the slide cycles. If it will hold up to the G18, you're OK. Information to the contrary cannot be verified; it's always "I heard...", "I know a guy...", "My RO says...." Unless you're testing the very limits of performance or some similar torture testing, you'll be OK with stock.


Broken guiderods are almost invariably the result of improper installation (seating the assembly on the wrong lug on barrel). Yes, they are a mechanical component, and will therefore occasionally fail (the key word being "occasionally"), just keep a spare handy.
The "lateral strength" or "flexing" of the guide rod is a non-issue. There is simply inadequate space available inside the slide to allow for the amount of lateral distortion required to cause structural failure. The guide rod is more than adequate for the intended task; it is a guide rod, that's all it does. In fact, the gun will continue to operate without any guiderod at all.

If you feel you must use a metal guide rod, save yourself some cash and go with stainless steel. As to tungsten and titanium rods, they cost a lot more, and add nothing (unless you sell them)...IMO they're a solution looking for a problem. SS is okay (and cheap) if you want to change out springs a lot for racing. And, yes, I have fired Glocks modified with these items, often.


I have often heard folks say that guiderod "X" reduces recoil; this is just plain wrong. The rod itself does NOTHING that will affect recoil. It is true that a heavier rod will (may) reduce muzzle flip, thereby allowing for quicker follow-ups. However, muzzle-flip is not "equivalent" to "recoil".


For standard loads the stock spring set-up is the best and most reliable choice, especially for CCW. Be careful with aftermarket springs (spring inner diameters are crucial). Keep it stock, friend.


Replacement recoil springs come in various strengths, and swapping them will have a direct influence on felt recoil. However, many knowledgeable GTers advise against this, as it may or may not also result in reduced reliability. If you feel you must change springs, go with a SS guide rod that has a removable retainer, this will allow you to change springs very quickly.


As I said, you must also be aware of aftermarket spring inner diameters, it is crucial that the spring movement is not impeded due to insufficient rod/spring clearance. FWIW, I have never heard a bad word about IMSI springs. For standard loads, the stock set-up is the best and most reliable choice, especially for CCW.

blakdawg
09-01-2011, 6:38 PM
This website (the first result on Google - don't know if this is the guide rod you're thinking of) http://glockstore.com/pgroup_descrip/7_Parts%2B%26amp%3B%2BAccessories/7040_Tungsten%2BGuide%2BRod/ says that the weight of their tungsten guide rod is 1.6 ounces.

They don't specify whether they're talking about the guide rod for a 17/22, a 20/21, or a 19/23 (etc) - it seems unlikely that they'd all be the same weight, but, whatever. The 23 is likely to be the lightest of the bunch because it's the shortest.

My postage scale thinks a 180 grain Federal .40 S&W round is between .5 and .6 ounces.

So you're going to spend $50 to make the front of your gun weigh 1.6 ounces more - but if you're using 13 round mags, the back of your gun is going to lose 7 ounces of weight (mostly in the back half of the gun, on the other side of the center of gravity) from the first round to the last round fired.

Color me skeptical.

I think it'd be interesting to see a blind test, where someone shoots a couple of boxes of ammo, and someone else swaps the guide rod between magazines/targets, and see if there's any detectable difference in timing or accuracy.

Without that, I'm inclined to attribute reports of improvements following the purchase of aftermarket parts to mostly wishful thinking. Who wants to admit that they just spent $50 on a gizmo that did nothing, or made things worse? Those groups MUST be better.

Husker16
09-16-2011, 5:34 AM
After going to the range with my Glock 23 and consistently hitting the bullseye at 25 yards I WILL NOT BE WASTING MY MONEY buying a metal guide rod. I don't see the point really because the pistol was very easy to control even when fired rapidly. I really think the only feature of the Glock I am not a fan of is the magazine realease. It is to hard to drop the mag. Any suggestions here?

Voo
09-16-2011, 5:58 AM
I really think the only feature of the Glock I am not a fan of is the magazine realease. It is to hard to drop the mag. Any suggestions here?

Get the extended magazine release from Glock..

truep
09-16-2011, 8:20 AM
Do a hammer test....hit that tungsten guide rod with a hammer. It will shatter in to many pieces. Now do it with a stainless or plastic guide rod. There's your answer.

Cali-Shooter
09-16-2011, 8:27 AM
Not worth the money. You are just making the gun heavier, and replacing that guide rod does nothing, because that part of the firearm isn't exactly exposed to a lot of wear and tear, compared to other parts such as the barrel.

Like previous posters have said, if you're going to change out the stock guide rod, go for steel, preferably SS.

My 2 cents.